Time for WW to leave LL and have its own forums before LL collapses under server traffic/costs?

[TentacleBandit]

As of right now LL has over 7000 active visitors, and by browsing 30 pages deep its easy to see the majority are after WW related content.  On discord support its widely sited that the majority of traffic on loverslab is directed to the Sims WW section.  While LL was built to support adult mods, WW has become a thing in itself, the creator makes over 50k a month from his 5000 patreons and has earned apparently somewhere between 2-3 million dollars in the last 3 years or more.

 

Thats great, I used to support turbo when he just got started years ago and I think what he has done is wonderful - this is nothing against him or WW.  The problem is his mod and animations for it have become the dominating force of traffic that has brought Loverlabs to its knees this year.  I also understand this is combination of winter, covid but the Sims 4 community is ever growing as does the interest in WW. 

 

But I fear two things - the Sims community websites often implode or collapse under its own weight of cost to support the servers, the only sites that has survived is thesimsresource and modthesims.

 

I don't want to see Loverlabs go offline one day because it just became too much traffic to manage which again is almost all now driven by Sims community looking for WW and its animations, or the Sims 4 in general.  

 

The two solutions I can see to prevent this would be 1. a new LL site like loverslabsims which is its own forum and server - but this doesnt mean the cost goes down, or the workload.  It only gets bigger but its still a solution especially with removing all Sims 4 traffic from LL servers.   Which brings me to solution 2 - WW section is shut down on LL with a month warning to all members.   And what happens to WW?

 

Well it already has its own website and with the money that Turbo makes he could definitely afford to pay the costs to run a new forum and server on the site (or pay others support it). 

 

If not I fear for the health of loverslab.  Its basically become the site that hosts WW and its animators, but doesn't earn anything near what they do to support that traffic in the same way.  I fear it will be the destruction by cost and traffic and ask both turbo and Ashal (loverslab) to consider its future.

 

Otherwise if these numbers continue loverslab will become all but inaccessible under heavier traffic and the costs staggering to support all because of one mod and its animators/rapid fan base that will see the destruction of an entire forum that was meant to be more than a place for just Sims 4 mods.

[LuluX2]

Yes, this site has become just trash to use. On Turbo's own website, he lists all the animations and then they come here through that link. How cool would it be if they didn't have to, if they were an extension on his own website? I know he works hard, and I think every cent he makes is earned. But coming here to update my animations, or look for new content is becoming a pain in my ass. I cannot even get on the downloads page right now, the "host" is not working. 

[Twycross448]

6 hours ago, TentacleBandit said:

... the creator makes over 50k a month from his 5000 patreons and has earned apparently somewhere between 2-3 million dollars in the last 3 years or more.

While Turbo deserves every cent he makes, I would love to know where you got those numbers from. o_O?

 

His Patreon page currently lists a bit over 9000 subscribers/supporters, not 5000. The lowest Tier is $1 a month, and given that Patreon and the payment processors take a sizeable cut as well (I think I recall someone writing that the "artist" gets about 50% and Patreon and the payment processors get the other half) I really doubt the $50k per month.

[TentacleBandit]

5 hours ago, Twycross448 said:

While Turbo deserves every cent he makes, I would love to know where you got those numbers from. o_O?

 

His Patreon page currently lists a bit over 9000 subscribers/supporters, not 5000. The lowest Tier is $1 a month, and given that Patreon and the payment processors take a sizeable cut as well (I think I recall someone writing that the "artist" gets about 50% and Patreon and the payment processors get the other half) I really doubt the $50k per month.

 

Honestly I was just using graphtreon.com for the most recent numbers, the high being 60K and edged close that - but I recall before he hid numbers that very few pay less than $4.50 so i'm going to guess probably closer to 30-40k (although the 5000 i might have seen a 5 instead of a 9) However that wasn't the point of the my post other than to make the point there is enough capital being generated by WW to support its own servers now. 

 

This post was never meant to attack what he's earned or him/the mod itself - only that WW traffic has overtaken loverslab and its barely able to load now for most users trying to access this site and will only get worse as the Sims 4 keeps growing/sales continue. 

 

Thats truly the bigger issue, WW is a huge part of SIms community on here - but simply going into browse users you'll find the Sims 4 sections in general are the most popular/driving most of the traffic and slowing the site down for it. 

 

I am not the first to say the site needs to separate the Sims 4 from itself in general, but I am the first to sound the alarm that the Sims 4 section/traffic

might eventually lead to bigger problems for loverslab as traffic/demand for that section keeps growing.  I've seen all to many host/admins call it quits due to stress, costs and general toxic behaviors of simmers over the last decade.

 

There is more to loverslab than the Sims 4 and I dont' want to see that vanish (and this is coming as a sims player).

 

 

[Twycross448]

8 hours ago, TentacleBandit said:

...

No need to get defensive or anything, TB. I really only wanted to know where the numbers came from. My post was not in any way critizing you or the content of your opening post. I simply was curious.

[TentacleBandit]

17 minutes ago, Twycross448 said:

No need to get defensive or anything, TB. I really only wanted to know where the numbers came from. My post was not in any way critizing you or the content of your opening post. I simply was curious.

Uh...sorry, I didn't think I was being defensive lol.  You asked to show my numbers and I tried best to explain where they came from but also was being careful not to allow the topic to steer over into patreon profit debates which a lot of people have an opinion.  Sorry if that came off as defensive.

[kahuld]

This idea may inevitably hurt adult modding and gaming as a whole. While I understand the desire (and rightfully so), this site boasts many important adult mods. If your numbers are even remotely accurate, then a sizable amount of LLs profit comes from the traffic directed towards WW. From Skyrim to Crusader Kings, as well as one of the best locations to discuss adult gaming.

 

If WW leaves, then so does A LOT of things. Especially if done in the manner you spoke of. Many of these animators and CC creators are AWOL, what becomes of those? Are we meant to steal them and post them on the new website ourselves? That basically goes against everything that the modding communities everywhere seek to protect, instantly causing WW to gain heat from other communities. This isn't even counting the massive amount of posts that can be found via the search feature, I have found answers to nearly all of my questions by a simple search. Migration and the removal of WW from LL would get rid of this extremely useful resource, a resource not only useful for myself, but many other users, LL, and likely even Turbo driver and other modders/animators as well.

 

Furthermore, LL is likely useful to WW more than simply being its main host. First advertisement. While the Sims may maintain an active player base, you cannot discount the amount of active players who play Elder Scrolls and Fallout games, many of which at times have a ridiculously larger player base than the sims. While I am unfamiliar with the Fallout modding communities and its bigger mods/projects, I do kind of keep up with Skyrim. It never goes away, Anytime a massive or important mod is released, Skyrim players return in literal droves. Look at the amount of press coverage and active players who played Beyond Skyrim and Skyrim Together. More of these mods are coming out relatively soon. When they do, interest in Skyrim will skyrocket once again. When this happens, players will come looking for adult mods as well. Shlongs of Skyrim is the go-to male nude mod, and every player seeking adult mods will be directed here. If they spend any amount of time on this site, and they likely will search for more even if it's out of morbid curiosity, they will be introduced to WW one way or another. I, for one, was one of these people who found WW due to Skyrim, and in return decided to try Sims 4. Leaving LL cuts off a strong way to advertise these mods.

 

And lastly, you will not lose anything. Do a little digging, and you can find WW and the animations elsewhere. However, they are mostly stolen as I mentioned in paragraph 2, downloaded off of LL (and in some cases Patreon versions) and uploaded as packs on other websites, some of which are even more popular than LL is today.

 

In my opinion, the one that needs a change is not WW, but LL itself. LL needs to reexamine itself and itself website and layout. We need more sorting options, more categories, etc. A way for the users to find what their looking for rather than relying on posters or other modders linking to other mods. Make the website more accessible to games/mods not necessarily Bethesda and Sims related. Modernize itself and evolve, becoming better.

[TentacleBandit]

I would probably say looking back over this topic and the replies, thoughts people have sent me that if nothing else this is just discussion to be thought of.  Actually advocating the removal of WW is probably a LOT more complicated than it first appears although there IS a large portion of people who agree on discord that loverslab should make a sister site just for sims content (such as loverslabsims or LLS) but that does create more workload for the operator which isn't really fair.

 

In my last post I commented on how The Sims 5 and Elder Scrolls 6 will be most likely releases unlike anything prior to them - however what they actually allow for adult mods is entirely unknown with the Sims 5 having strong online components (according to their CEO) and ESO6/Bethseda using DRM that interferes with deep modding.  On one hand I can see the community being a huge factors of what they decide to allow.  On the other hand the majority of players are on console, many of which never use mods for the later and with Sony/Microsoft becoming censor heavy....well who knows what will happen.  At the very least I expect both games to allow cosmetic mods (such as outfits, colors variations, ect).

 

In retrospect perhaps its not whats happening now but the future of LL we must consider and what future traffic from these titles in the next few years will mean for it.

[johnpage]

I'm of a mind that LovLab should set a sister site for sims mods, if only to go back to our under the counter grass roots. LL is being policed by far too many opinionated persons these days, just my 2 pennys worth..love to all

[Kashked]

Yeah, I can't agree, purely out of a "consumer" perspective. Modding the sims is a massive pain because there is no Nexus-equivalent, just a million Tumblr-pages. Atleast most of the adult stuff is gathered in one place, along with, and lets not forget this, a considerable amount of modding knowledge. 9 times out of 10 when I google a sims bug LL is in the top results, often even when the bug or mod isn't even related to anything adult!

 

LL has built itself up to be THE place where you get those mods, there is nothing else like it, no matter if you play Rimworld, Paradox games, Bethesda games or the Sims, and personally, I'd like to keep it that way. I love what LL has become in the modding community, it's a damned institution by now, and I've been around for years and I just want to see it keep growing.

[johnpage]

Yep it maybe the place to get all those ''other mods'' but those ''other mods are being policed behind a veil of political correctedness which has a habit of being bullying bullshit, if you have been here for long long time you should remember that LL was a site where any mod could be had and on any subject, bearing in mind most if not all of us here are adults with alll kinds of weird and some wonderfull habits but my game is pure fantasy i dont need to be told what is or is not bad for me, to me LL has lost touch with its roots and needs a reboot a reboot to something much better.

[BiaX]

I think the question raised is very interesting and relevant. But I believe (and I may be very wrong) that it will do more damage than good. Removing all content from The Sims from LL will seriously damage small content creators. It is precisely because of the concentration of people here that they get an audience for their ideas and creations.

And, even worse, it can actually cause the LL to have to be closed. Due to the sharp drop in revenue, which we know is largely driven by the content of The Sims.

The server problems are real. But I think we can reach an agreement that doesn't hurt that much. The construction of a parallel page, with its own server, but linked to the LL can be a good solution. 

 

In addition, many of those who already see here as the great adult mod channel for The Sims, may end up losing that connection with the breakup. In other words, the migration of accesses from here to the supposed new site is not so simple and straightforward. What would not benefit us.

 

Anyway, I believe that the server problem is real, and it won't take long for us to be harmed by it, as a community (and we already are). But I don't know if total separation would benefit us (the sims community) or LL

[BiaX]

On 04/01/2021 at 03:12, kahuld said:

Essa ideia pode inevitavelmente prejudicar o modding e os jogos adultos como um todo. Embora eu entenda o desejo (e com razão), este site possui muitos mods adultos importantes. Se seus números forem, mesmo que remotamente precisos, uma grande parte do lucro do LLs vem do tráfego direcionado para a WW. De Skyrim a Crusader Kings, além de um dos melhores locais para discutir jogos adultos.

 

Se WW sair, então MUITAS coisas também. Especialmente se for feito da maneira que você falou. Muitos desses animadores e criadores de CC são AWOL, o que acontece com eles? Pretendemos roubá-los e publicá-los no novo site nós mesmos? Isso basicamente vai contra tudo que as comunidades de modding em todos os lugares procuram proteger, fazendo com que WW ganhe calor de outras comunidades instantaneamente. Isso sem contar a enorme quantidade de postagens que podem ser encontradas por meio do recurso de pesquisa, encontrei respostas para quase todas as minhas perguntas com uma simples pesquisa. A migração e a remoção do WW do LL eliminariam este recurso extremamente útil, um recurso útil não apenas para mim, mas para muitos outros usuários, LL, e provavelmente até mesmo o driver Turbo e outros modders / animadores também.

 

Além disso, LL provavelmente é útil para a WW mais do que simplesmente ser seu hospedeiro principal. Primeiro anúncio. Embora os Sims possam manter uma base de jogadores ativa, você não pode descontar a quantidade de jogadores ativos que jogam os jogos Elder Scrolls e Fallout, muitos dos quais às vezes têm uma base de jogadores ridiculamente maior do que os sims. Embora eu não esteja familiarizado com as comunidades de modding do Fallout e seus mods / projetos maiores, eu meio que me mantenho atualizado com Skyrim. Isso nunca vai embora. Sempre que um mod massivo ou importante é lançado, os jogadores de Skyrim retornam em massa. Veja a quantidade de cobertura da imprensa e os jogadores ativos que jogaram Beyond Skyrim e Skyrim Together. Mais desses mods serão lançados em breve. Quando o fizerem, o interesse em Skyrim disparará mais uma vez. Quando isso acontece, os jogadores também procuram mods adultos. Shlongs of Skyrim é o mod nu masculino favorito, e todos os jogadores que procuram mods adultos serão direcionados aqui. Se eles passarem algum tempo neste site, e provavelmente irão pesquisar mais, mesmo que seja por curiosidade mórbida, eles serão apresentados à WW de uma forma ou de outra. Eu, por exemplo, fui uma dessas pessoas que encontrou o WW devido ao Skyrim e, em troca, decidi tentar o Sims 4. Deixar o LL é uma forma forte de anunciar esses mods.

 

E por último, você não perderá nada. Faça uma pequena escavação e você poderá encontrar WW e as animações em outro lugar. No entanto, eles são geralmente roubados como mencionei no parágrafo 2, baixados do LL (e em alguns casos das versões do Patreon) e carregados como pacotes em outros sites, alguns dos quais são ainda mais populares do que o LL é hoje.

 

Na minha opinião, quem precisa de mudança não é a WW, mas a própria LL. A LL precisa reexaminar a si mesma e ao próprio site e layout. Precisamos de mais opções de classificação, mais categorias, etc. Uma maneira de os usuários encontrarem o que procuram, em vez de depender de pôsteres ou outros modders com links para outros mods. Torne o site mais acessível para jogos / mods não necessariamente relacionados a Bethesda e Sims. Modernize-se e evolua, tornando-se melhor.

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. I honestly don't think this is a Turbo Driver issue. But a problem with the LL website. That to my understanding, and I may be wrong obviously, the site is out of date (in layout) and with a series of small errors. I understand that there are expenses with server and that it is not that simple to do this maintenance. But let's be honest, they earn enough in advertising to maintain a server. If not, they would have already sought other forms of financing.

 

WW financing is related to the construction of the mod itself. I don't think it is his problem this difficulty on the site. Because in any problem that occurs, he could simply stop hosting his content here, and start hosting exclusively on the website itself. And still host popular content from your mod (like NisaK), without any problem. So, where does he really get into this story? In the event of a LL collapse, it is not WW that will be harmed, but all the small content creators who find space here for publication.