Two Character Issues: Neck Seam Caessia and Dark Face Lydia

[mknn]

Two things that are driving me a bit batty.

 

• I am using the Caesia mod from https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/13389 . Highly recommended. The only issue is there is a significant neck seam issue. It's not noticeable when we're motoring around killing things, as her scarf covers it. But later ... the skin tone difference between neck/face and body is significant.
• I am also really wanting to use https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/21716 as a Lydia replacer. Love the work on the tattoo's here. No matter what I do, though, using this results in the darkface bug on Lydia.

 

I've reinstalled the mods, I've changed load orders in different ways, etc.

 

I know I could use the darkface spell on Lydia, but on both issues, what I really would like is to understand what is happening so I can better troubleshoot things down the road, and even be more helpful to other n00bs as they hit things like this. Additionally, the setnpcweight fix works, but doesn't seem to be saved for Lydia; again, I know I could do that every time I load the game, but ... yeah.

 

Any hints welcome.

 

Current load order attached. I'm also slowly working through it to bring it more in line with the recommendations on the magnificent front page sticky. Getting there.

ModOrder.txt

[mknn]

As an update, I tried to follow the instructions here

 

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5755942-the-dark-faces-bug-how-to-fix-it/#entry56005876

 

{ Bethesda's servers are wonky today, so it may take a few times to login successfully, fwiw. }

 

I cannot even find Lydia/Lyanna in the ACTOR list. I did find her head elsewhere in the tree. So perhaps that is an issue with the construction of the mod. Another important bit of data: this was working at one point. Clearly, some other mod is interfering, but I have not been able to sleuth what yet, or undo the impact.

[anjenthedog]

seam issues are often causes by weight issues.

 

to solve, Try installing "Lazytools" (it's a useful tool no matter if it solves this or not, btw) 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/13381

 

Once installed,

1. target Lydia or whomever
2. open Lazytools MCM
3. set her weight (in the "body" submenu of lazytools MCM) to 0
4. exit the MCM. 
5. check. Is it ok now?

IF NOT

1. target her again
2. open Lazytools MCM
3. set her weight (in the "body" submenu of lazytools MCM) to 100
4. exit the MCM. 
5. check. If it wasn't before, it *should be ok now. 

one of the two (weight=0 or weight=100) usually clears things up.

 

Not 100% guaranteed solution, but in my experience it's been the solution every time, at least for naked bodies. 

 

The other thing that *might be going on is a problem with an armor or clothing that is being worn but wasn't fitted, which can also cause similar seam issues. that's a matter of fitting clothing/armor in BodySlide&Outfit Studio.

[mknn]

I've done the setnpcweight via the console, but that doesn't persist across saves. Does the Lazytools last across saves? I can test myself in a few hours.

[anjenthedog]

25 minutes ago, mknn said:

I've done the setnpcweight via the console, but that doesn't persist across saves. Does the Lazytools last across saves? I can test myself in a few hours.

Generally speaking yes. Scale (NPC height) doesn't, because it's dynamically changed when autoscale is encountered, but weight and other changes made in lazytools appear to be "permanent" (until you change them again), as long as you save your game... or unless some other mod changes them. But weight seems to be one characteristic that doesn't seem to be modified by anything else indirectly. 

 

qualification: if the NPC (or you the player) has a bodyslide and you rebuild it with some weight, it will change (afaik)

[Grey Cloud]

'Neck seam' is a texture colour mismatch between the torso and the head. It has nothing to do with weight. This is what the OP described in the first post.

'Neck gap' is a gap between the torso and the head. This is generally caused by, e,g, importing a head from a body of x weight onto a body of y weight.

 

 

 

[mknn]

Unfortunately, LazyTools didn't help (changing the weight of the character via LazyTools didn't fix the darkface).

 

I tried a different mod as a Lydia replacer as a test. Darkface happened with that one as well. So the culprit must not be the Lydia mod, but another mod that manipulates her.

 

Finally, and this seemed odd, when I used setnpcweight on her, the darkface went away BUT the face reverted to the default Lydia face (it's easy to tell due to the facepaint on the desired replacement).

 

Grrrr.

[anjenthedog]

changing the weight won't fix darkface issues. Or at least I wasn't aware of any relationship. As Greycloud suggested, I was thinking you meant "gap" when you said "seam", which is what I usually understand "seam" issues to be (aside from occasional issues with the body tone not being transferred to the face... and sometimes hands and/or feet) .

[mknn]

@anjenthedog, so interestingly, if you target an NPC and to setpncweight, it does indeed reset the darkface issue, but only for the duration of that play session.

 

An update on THE LYDIA ISSUE, as it is now known.

 

• Darkface occurs on everyone's favorite housecarl no matter what Lydia replacer I use.
• When Lydia enters a new space, her head disappears for a hot second, and is then replaced by a darkface version of the vanilla head.
  • This would seem consistent with the issue being something in the replacing of the vanilla with the new.

My real struggle here is how to proceed. I've become relatively comfortable with mods, so my instinct is to start chopping away at the modlist until I find one that is causing the darkface, and going from there.

 

But I also read about solves that are file related, not mod related, involving regenerating the mesh (?) files of the character's head.

 

Any guidance appreciated, I'll update with what I find out as I go.

[mknn]

Just found this. It may be because of all the other stuff I've read has prepared me, but it hit me as the cleanest overview of the darkface bug I've found.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/98ty4j/eli5_facegen_and_facegeom_or_whatever_its_called/e4j4psy/

 

[mknn]

OK, the darkface issue was mod related. Specifically, this mod

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/38473

 

So I now have the lovely tattoo'd Lydia I want. But, you know, we want it all, right? So the question is how do I create a patch in SSEedit that allows the extra dialog to live alongside the replacer I want. In the description on the mod, he makes it sound, you know, easy. We'll see. Once I make a run at that, I'll circle back to the Caesia neck seam.

[mknn]

Annnnnnnnnnd ... FAIL.

 

I enabled the offending mod, loaded the game, darkface as expected. So I closed out, fired up SSEEdit, and went through it

 

* loaded everything

* create merged patch, named it SSSMerged

* No tree appeared, just the header (1st sign it didn't work)

* Header was indicative of no content (that is, all records were 00000000) (2nd sign)

* Cleaned masters, and everything disappeared (3rd and final sign)

 

So, it looks like the merged patch didn't see anything worth merging. Which means either I did it wrong, or it's not the right solve.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, mknn said:

Any guidance appreciated, I'll update with what I find out as I go.

Just as a general point - When you have a visual problem it is usually a good idea to provide a screenshot. This way everyone can see the problem and not have to rely on your description which may be using the wrong terminology.

There is black, brown and grey face. ?

 

With the Lydia issue the obvious step would be to move the mod to near the end of your load order so it does the overwriting. In your case you would move the Lydia mod below the Imp Dialogue mod.

Alternatively, use T5E to see which mods are changing Lydia and which is the last one doing changes.

 

 

[I run LE] Here's Lydia in my game. USLEEP  and Fresh Faces make changes to her and FF is the winner because it loads after USLEEP.

 

 

[mknn]

@Misanthrope, yeah, duh. Here are 4 screenshots that I think summarize the situation.

 

Replaced Lydia, no Improved Follower Dialog, screenshot and SSEEdit. It wasn't clear what part of the SSEEdit would be useful, so I focused on the HEAD PARTS area.

 

Spoiler

 

And here is the poor afflicted woman with the Dialog Mod loaded, and the same part of SSEEdit.

 

Spoiler

 

So, ... clearly the entries for PNAM - Head Part aren't in the final patch. Do they need to be, and if so, where in the maze of SSEEdit do I need to make that change? In the ICLydia_USSEP_Patch itself, I would think?

[Grey Cloud]

32 minutes ago, mknn said:

where in the maze of SSEEdit do I need to make that change?

You don't. In the first shot Lyanna as Lydia (LAL) is loading last so there is no problem with her. In the second shot ICLydia is loading last and changing her hair. You need to move the LAL mod to load after the ICLydia mod.

What is the other mods there - ImprovedCompanionsBooga . . . ?

You appear to have three related mods all acting on Lydia which I would guess is not what is supposed to be going on.

 

Edit  - If that ICLydia_USSEP patch is what you made just delete it. Move the LAL esp below ImprovedCompanionsBooga . . .

[mknn]

Yeah, moving LAL down doesn't fix it, unfortunately. My understanding is that LAL is LAL, Boogaloo is the update to Lydia to change her voice and extend her RDO possibilities [https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/38473?tab=description]. The ICLydia_USSEP Patch is, supposedly, a patch for Boogaloo to work with USSEP.

[mknn]

Sorry, edit for clarity. Moving LAL down isn't possible due to dependencies--or I can't figure out how to make it work. Boogaloo and the USSEP patch demand to load after any Lydia replacer.

 

Now, I just said fuggit and disabled the USSEP patch. And the "correct" Lydia shows up in game. But, of course, I have no clue if the game is going to blow up because an incompatibility between the Unofficial Skyrim Patch and the RDO extension of Boogaloo is now exposed.

[Grey Cloud]

Okay, try this.

(In your second screenshot) Under the ICLydia_USSEP_Patch column. Delete the two entries:

HairFemaleNord02 and

MarksFemaleNoGash00

 

or alternatively, delete the HairFemalNord02 entry but drag and drop the MarksFemaleNoGash00 entry into the empty boxes in the Lyanna As Lydia and ImprovedCompanionsBogaloo columns.

 

Back up the esps first.

 

Which mod manager do you use? If it's MO, MO2 or Vortex you could resolve the conflict with the mod manager.

[mknn]

@Grey Cloud YOWZAH!!! So, that was scary. Deleting those cells in SSEEdit led to red text saying NULL Reference with no clear guidance as to whether I needed to be worried. BUT, took a deep breath, saved it, exited, deployed again (I'm using Vortex, fwiw), and ... the USSEP plugin says it's enabled AND Lydia got tats!

 

So, yeah. That seems to be sorted.

 

The key new bits for me were understanding more about how SSEEdit's display works, learning that you had to navigate to the player under a parent in the tree (that is, I was working in the Skyrim tree, not in a particular ESP), and then figuring out some things about navigating changes there. Still feels incredibly n00bish, but it makes sense, in that LAL edited appearance, and the other 2 edited voice and scripting, and the trick was making them play nice together, so the different parts "carried through."

 

Much appreciation. I'll tackle the Caesia seam at some point.

[Grey Cloud]

6 minutes ago, mknn said:

red text saying NULL Reference

You should be able to delete that.

 

7 minutes ago, mknn said:

The key new bits for me were understanding more about how SSEEdit's display works, learning that you had to navigate to the player under a parent in the tree (that is, I was working in the Skyrim tree, not in a particular ESP), and then figuring out some things about navigating changes there.

Well done. Anything learned about T5E is well worth it. If in doubt always make a back up of the esp before you change anything.

With the T5E display the load order of the esms and esps work from L to R. So Skyrim.esm is always first on the left and whatever is last on the right is the one doing the overwriting.

The USSEP patch did not need to be touching Lydia's appearance at all (damned annoying when mods do that sort of thing).

[mknn]

Well, spoke too soon. We went outside and this happened

 

Spoiler

 

Damned annoying, that. I'll do some googling and see if anything in SSEEdit seems out of whack.

[mknn]

Here is what SSEEdit shows. I can't figure out how to remove those 2 red rows.

 

Spoiler

 

[mknn]

w00t w00t!

 

I was looking at the "parent" or "root" or whatever you call it when you are looking at a branch of skyrim.esm. Cruised on down to the actual plugin in question, and was able to delete the rows.

 

Deployed.

 

And she is headless no more after entering a new space / fast traveling! Score one for the good guys!

 

[Grey Cloud]

46 minutes ago, mknn said:

Damned annoying

You're not wrong. ☹️

 

It's bedtime here but here's two last suggestions before I go.

Look at the LaL esp in T5E and see if it is still in red in the top row. If it is then scroll down the column to see what is in red.

Look at the LaL mod in the mods page of Vortex to see if it has a red lightning bolt. If it has then create a rule which makes LaL load after whatever the other mod is. If it already has a green lightning bolt then check the rule to make sure that LaL is loading after whatever the other mod is.

 

I see I was ninjad. ?

[mknn]

The issue now is how Lydia is ... built? ... when entering new spaces.

 

We go through a door, and she is headless. Then her head eventually pops into place. It's the correct head, but the effect is a little ... unnerving.

 

The Vortex question is a little odd. Here is how the mods out

 

 

But here is how the plugins are being sorted

 

 

The challenge is that if I move the Lyanna plugin lower than the 2 patches, I get this

 

 

But, like I said, we have the correct head and body showing now. It's just the weird rebuild effect that is distracting.