interest in a "hardcore" mod?

[sen4mi]

Would people here be interested in playing a "hardcore" mod?

 

Possible effects I am considering [if I can figure out how to implement them] include:

 

* No inventory use in combat.

 

* Heal effects become slow, taking place over a long period of time instead of instant

 

* Known sexual activity carries social stigma (worse prices, degraded faction relations, auto-fail some quest options)

 

* Rape causes damage and some chance of permanent health penalties, negative perks, and extra stigma

 

* Hostiles are not immediately obvious - everyone seems to be friendly, initially, usually, and you lose most or all action points on surprise attack

 

* Drugs may have lingering negative penalties

 

 

Because of interaction between these options, I am thinking I'd build this from scratch rather than incorporating someone else's realism mod. (So, I am not promising anything about actually finishing this in a reasonable time frame).

 

[zippy57]

My initial reaction:

• Arwen's Tweaks already does this
• Arwen's Tweaks already does this
• Doesn't feel quite right for this setting, would need to be very carefully implemented
• I think Sexout already has a rape damage option, permanent health penalties feel unrealistic, stigma feels like it could be unrealistic
• Impossible without heavy rescripting of every quest in the game and would break anything non-vanilla
• Some mods already do this a bit

[sen4mi]

 

My initial reaction:

• Arwen's Tweaks already does this
• Arwen's Tweaks already does this
• Doesn't feel quite right for this setting, would need to be very carefully implemented
• I think Sexout already has a rape damage option, permanent health penalties feel unrealistic, stigma feels like it could be unrealistic
• Impossible without heavy rescripting of every quest in the game and would break anything non-vanilla
• Some mods already do this a bit

 

Ok! that certainly simplifies things (and mostly I do not prefer to play this way - I prefer, I think, things like the msex mods - I'll find out in a week or so when I get there.).

 

But I do not think stigma is at all unrealistic, and I am not sure how you came to that conclusion? It does depend on the people you associate with, but it's not like anyone hands out awards to rape victims, or anything.

 

(But I am not too concerned about possibility yet, I was looking for interest. And since so much is already dealt with elsewhere, I'll think about scope and how much I am interested in, myself.)

 

Thanks!

[zippy57]

Perhaps we're thinking of different usages of the word stigma.

[sen4mi]

Perhaps we're thinking of different usages of the word stigma.

 

Perhaps?

 

I am thinking of social stigma.

[zippy57]

To me, a situation where someone is shunned because they were raped doesn't fit at all except in very specific settings. The Fallout setting is not one of them, in my mind at least.

[Azothiol]

I don´t know...

 

Sry, English isn´t my native language but I´ll try to explain what´s on my mind.

I am missing some hardcore effects and consequences of sexual activity, pregnancy and rape.

 

Public sexual activity could have some social consequences, in the way that people tend to think it´s available

for bargain. Let´s say prices don´t get worse in caps, but you are expected to get naked and hold still for even

the opportunity to trade or discuss something by members of certain factions, or even have to complete a minor quest, like

being part of some sexual encounter or something.

Yes, I think it should take away at least peak reputation, but I´m not

sure if this would screw up completing the main quest, unless there is some new way to also regain reputation.

But that sounds lat an awful lot of work to me.

Another thing: The reputation mechanics could basically used as ground work for some kind of

"blackmail mod", where you are forced to do some stuff, else your "private life" goes public, damaging your

reputation, therefore keeping you from uniting the Mojave Wasteland.

One more option: I´m not that familiar with the game mechanics, but "good" reputation is counted seperate from "bad", right?

So it could also decrease, because you are no idol at all, not even one of evil, especially if the public sexual activity is rather humilliating,

since it shows yu are controlled.

 

Rape is something you get away from far too easy I think. First it should really screw you up, hurt you and get you at least some tough debuff

´til you recover. I´m not sure if I like permanent damage, but something like fear (reduced stats, combat performance, etc.)

of the rapist or the rapists´ faction, if it happens often enough by members

of the faction, should be the least. Maybe you can overcome with time, or by killing enough members af the said faction.

I really think it should eat away from good and bad reputation if word gets out someone literally made you his bitch.

I am not sure if something like this would require a new mod like brutal rapers of it´s own.

 

Pregnancy could really use more hardcore, but I think that´s in the department of the respective, still in developement

but awsome mod. I usually play the game trying not to get pregnant at all costs, since I imagine it would basically render

you unable to tavel the wasteland at late stages, as if seriosly harming, possibly killing you by giving birth would not be

reason enough.

 

With the drugs... I always thought that permanent dependancy should be replaced by some temporal withdrawel debuff.

So: Less hardcore.

 

As with combat difficulty: One could just turn the difficulty of the game if he wanted, right?

 

On thing though: It´s really hard to sneak up on the player. Without stealth effect, is there even a chance?

But if one would want to change that, let´s say by adding a stealth effect to sneaking enemies, wouldn´t one have

to implement those enemies, i.e. redo the way enemies in the game behave itself? Wouln´t there be equal difficulty

to determine if an enemy surprised a PC and if so loses his actionpoints?
Oh... and wouldn´t players like me not simply gun down enemies while still friendly with full actionpoint?

 

One last thing: I have no idea of coding whatsoever and have not contributed anything to Sexout, a Fallout ressource I really love.

You guys and gals who build mods are like miracle workers to me. I don´t want to offend someone or play the wise guy, which I am

not for sure. If I said something that sounded like that, it´s because of my shitty grasp of English, so feel free to flame me.

 

[zippy57]

Just one thing I want to comment on:

I´m not sure if I like permanent damage, but something like fear (reduced stats, combat performance, etc.)

Avoid stuff like this in this type of game. Never tell the player what they are supposed to be feeling emotionally.

[sen4mi]

To me, a situation where someone is shunned because they were raped doesn't fit at all except in very specific settings. The Fallout setting is not one of them, in my mind at least.

 

I should put you down for "not interested", then, I think?

 

Though I'm not sure that "shunned" was the effect I was trying to portray.  Closer to the mark might be concepts like: "easy to take advantage of", "looked down on", "not respected",  "not worth sympathizing with", or perhaps 'laugh at'.

 

Also, on fear ... my point would not be to insist that the player nor the character experience any particular emotion. Fear, anger, and other such things are all possible, but rape might even be pleasant in comparison (when compared with being shot repeatedly with many different kinds of weapons and being struck by many high velocity bullets), and it's difficult in this kind of game to convey the sort of experience a person might encounter in real life. Still, there's related genres (like horror) that use some interesting story telling techniques, and it might be fun to offer that here?

 

But a real problem is that we have difficulties when we talk of sexual issues. For example, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._One_Book_Called_Ulysses a part of the legal reasoning for why Ulysses was not a violation of the obscenity law of that time [and place] was that "nowhere does it tend to be an aphrodisiac". And, of course, some aspects of some sexual situations are unpleasant. So I was thinking this might be an important issue for some people and maybe even some people here - that unpleasantnesses and increased game difficulty could be what some people want.

 

I know that I've wished for what I feel are realistic reactions from bystanders. [And by that I mean mixed reactions - in my experience, not everyone will be positive and not everyone will be negative, and the negative reactions would frequently lack empathy and some people that might react positively may instead remain quiet to avoid offending the people with the negative reactions.]

 

So I thought I'd draft up something and ask people about their feelings.

[zippy57]

Put me down as "waiting for more details on implementation", I think. How you determine what reaction NPCs have to what situation is going to be very important.

[RitualClarity]

Though I'm not sure that "shunned" was the effect I was trying to portray.  Closer to the mark might be concepts like: "easy to take advantage of", "looked down on", "not respected",  "not worth sympathizing with", or perhaps 'laugh at'.

 Maybe you are thinking of having various actions affect the "SPECIAL" skills. "Easy to take advantage of" could be Strength if the character is weaken somehow like sick from a STD. Or Intelligence if something caused some brain damage like drug use. Another concept is "Not worth sympathizing with" could be an affect to the charisma which lowers how people perceive you and perhaps your "value" These changes can make it harder for the character to accomplish tasks given to them in the Mod proving more of a challenge as a result of acting a certain way. Remember you can't make it impossible just difficult.

 

Try to think along the lines of SPECIAL effects for some of the ideas you have related to the effects these acts have on the game.

 

Like Zippy stated there are a lot of "hardcore" mods that people can play. If you go through the effort of creating another one it should be something completely different or at least differentiated from the regular hardcore mods. Also changing that many things and effects is bound to "break" the game or at least conflict with other mods making the user have to choose between a favored mod that they have been using for a long time and your mod.

 

I am not trying to discourage you in any way. I am interested in anything that is a different way of playing this game. I am willing to try and experience different thoughts and storyline so I am very interested in this.

 

Finally if you have the skill to start the process and are interested to see if others might like to use your creative new mod. Draft up an more specific idea on what you are trying to accomplish and some ideas on how it will be implemented. Tech info on this seems to be appreciated in this Forum. It can show those that are modding here that you do indeed have some concept of the effort and work required and are willing to take the time and effort to do this. Every person since I have been here that has shown a clear concise plan and ways to implement this plan has gotten help from many experience individuals that create and post at this forum.

[sen4mi]

Put me down as "waiting for more details on implementation", I think. How you determine what reaction NPCs have to what situation is going to be very important.

 

Since I have no implementation, yet, my details will be sketchy and perhaps bogus.

 

Also, right now, I can't even start FNV - it hangs before the initial menu (where you can load a game).  So I'm going to need to spend some time debugging that before I can do anything.

 

However, I was thinking of making reactions be random for generic NPCs (I would give them a token so I could have the same NPC keep the same reaction over time), and I might assign specific reactions to some quest NPCs.  Beyond that, I was thinking of characterizing them based on their interests (perhaps assigning a partner and becoming particularly negative if you were involved with that person).  I was also thinking about implementing a rumor mill (so after a time reactions from arbitrary NPCs would propagate to other groups of NPCs), but that might be too hard to do right.

 

And... for my interpretation of SPECIAL...

 

Strength would be useful in physical struggles, and perhaps for intimidation purposes.

 

Perception would influence ambiguous conversational topics (noticing real issues, when they are different from what the person is saying, for example).

 

Endurance and Intelligence would mostly matter I think, if I assigned a person's "type" - they would find people with the right values here "attractive" and would not be so attracted to others.

 

Charisma is sales skill - the ability to get other people to believe things, it helps a person be dominant or a leader.

 

Agility is gracefulness, which will matter for some people.

 

And Luck is the "Beauty" attribute, from my point of view.

[zippy57]

Your interpretation of Charisma is awkward, since those factors are already covered by existing skills. Barter is "sales skill", and "the ability to get other people to believe things" is Speech.

[sen4mi]

Your interpretation of Charisma is awkward, since those factors are already covered by existing skills. Barter is "sales skill", and "the ability to get other people to believe things" is Speech.

 

And I think Charisma would be the raw ability on which those skills are based - how is this awkward? It's even how the game works, since you get bonuses on both skills based on your charisma.

 

On the other hand, the game also alters your companion's DT based on your charisma, and it's difficult to come up with any explanation for that. But maybe you convince them to take better care of themselves and their gear?

[zippy57]

Yes, Charisma is the raw ability on which those skills are based; it is not those skills themselves, which is what I interpreted your statement as saying. As for Charisma raising companion DT, that makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Nymphonomicon]

 

Would people here be interested in playing a "hardcore" mod?

 

Possible effects I am considering [if I can figure out how to implement them] include:

 

* Known sexual activity carries social stigma (worse prices, degraded faction relations, auto-fail some quest options)

 

I am a little curious how that might be implimented in NV... Infamy gain if you have public sex in a community?

[zippy57]

That kind of overarching implementation would cause problems; people would start trying to kill you if you had too much sex. It's going to need to be implemented a lot more precisely than that.

[sen4mi]

I was thinking of something much milder - I was thinking of things like negative comments from people (along the lines of some of the negative comments from DoctaSax's CheckMeOut mod) and reduced quest options (forcing you to go through some unpleasantness if you wanted to complete some quests). I was also thinking of reducing faction reputation, but I was wanting a mixed reputation rather than a hostile reputation.

 

I was also thinking of making it "personal" in the sense that some people would react negatively and others would be neutral and others would be positive.

 

But mostly all of this would require me being inspired enough in a technical sense to be able to achieve something playable and convincing.

[zippy57]

"Mixed" reputation only happens when you've around the same amount of good and bad reputation, there's no way to actually force it. If you're planning on any sort of comment-from-random-NPC setup, I would appreciate some form of "opt-out" list to ensure certain NPCs stay in character.

[Nymphonomicon]

That kind of overarching implementation would cause problems; people would start trying to kill you if you had too much sex. It's going to need to be implemented a lot more precisely than that.

 

 

Well, you could make it so that Infamy gain is dependant on how many NPCs within the proper Faction witness the act and make the actual Infamy gain per NPC very small. That way you only gain a noticable amount of Infamy if you're having a lot of public sex. The only problem I see with that is how do you prevent gaining Infamy from NPCs you are having sex with...?

[Trinar]

A "hardcore" mod which will make NPCs react on your previous behavior would be interesting imho. (within limits of course - a legion member in the fort should not care, if you fucked every single person in Goodsprings... for example)

 

It would also be nice if people would react on your current look.

Are you dirty from a long trip?

Bloody from Combat?

Covert in cum?

 

Then it should be time to clean yourself... just sleeping should not help.

 

 

Maybe those two ressources would be usefull there:

 

STmoddersResources
http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/39740

includes a shower

 

Licence:

USE:
However you want under the Bethesda Softworks ELUA. Just give me credit for my work.

FNV Dance Animations
http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/35297

includes shower idle animation and soap animated object:

 

Licence:

Licensing/Legal
===============
You can do whatever you want with this mod but all I ask in return is that you give me credit if you distribute any part of this mod.