Question: Updating mods.

[NiaticLabs]

Ok so, simply put... Im running FO4 version 1.10.138 - and lets say I want to upgrade a mod that had a new version drop a few days ago, but thats running on 1.10.162??(for example).. That means I have to update fallout, then install said mods update. But in the process of doing that I bork like 50 other mods on my list, which then need a update to be compatable with the new version of X mod.

 

So the takeaway here is any time I want to update a mod I have to go thru my entire load order and reinstall and reconfigure all mods to be working with each other every time??

Am i missing something here, or is it just that fucked and complicated for doing something as simple as going from MOD 1.1 to 1.2 - Literally why is this the case ? It it the case? Am i missing something here ? Or it this really what you have to do to keep fallout 4 updated.... and if im right, then why the fuck hasent evreyone just agreed upon using 1 version of this game yet.

 

it just seems overly complicated just to install a new version of a mod- if the fo4 version changed. Please tell me Im wrong here. I wana keep up with the modding community, but this shits getting to be a fucking headake trying to find out what mods work with what mod and if theres a config issue troubleshooting it.

 

please tell me im wrong.

[Just Don't]

(I haven't played FO4 for a while, but I think the game/mod updates thing is the same as in Skyrim, if so, my comment would make sense).

 

 You only need to care about specific versions on the mods that contain a dll file. This can vary a lot from user to user, but I'd say you have way more mods without a dll than mods with one (for reference on my last SE setup I had nearly 250 mods and only 20-30 had a dll). Not sure which mod manager you're using, but in MO you can filter these mods with a couple of clicks, which helps to keep track of these mods for when the sad-update-times are necessary.

 

And people don't agree about sticking to one version because that would be difficult, utopic, impossible. You're talking about thousands of players from different backgrounds. All it takes is one mod author to not comply to the agreement, release a new version sensitive mod and the whole agreement is done. Your best bet is to

• keep track of the mods with a dll/version sensitive you have (again, its not every mod, and not every mod requires configuration after each update, etc.).
• disable automatic updates from Steam.
• remember your FO4 and script extender versions for when you need to add or update a version sensitive mod.
• say: thanks Bethesda every time game updates occupy your mind or worst, your time.

[NiaticLabs]

25 minutes ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

 

Thanks for the reply- and yeah that I get Load orders/ MO / Incompatibilities and the like : i've been around the block in that aspect and my skyims smooth and modded to hell...I just don't post much...... but what im seeing here is that Skyrim / Fallout mod update style is pretty different while sharing some similarity. For instance, Skyrim hasn't updated its core game in a while- So SKSE/Skyrim version does not change much... where as in FO4 there has been multiple updates to the core game, which then effect every single mod, and if a mod updates to the new base F04 version, then the mod dependency need to update as well and it creates a chain-reaction down the line- some authors who don't update vs those who do... which then leaves dead-ends in your load order/ mod tree because certain mods are just dead in the water at that point(until and hopefully if they get a update)

 

Like right now for instance I want to update a animation (Savage cabbage 1.1 to 1.2) - But what im seeing is I need to update AAF to the latest version, but that version is built on FO4 1.10.62 yet im running 1.10.138 - Which means i have to update the core game F04 - Then i can do AAF - Then Savages Animations to 1.2 --- But then it breaks other animation packs / mods/ addons that are running on .138 and haven't been updated to .62 or other mods that wont work on newest version (because filepaths changed i assume) they need to be adjusted for the new file tree.... So my questions is if THAT is the case with fallout 4 or im completely missing something here. Like-- All i want to do is add some new animations to the game, but because the core AAF file changed; it requires a completely new build and sorting thru my entire mod list to see if half my mods are going to be comparable with each other.

It seems to be too big of a pain in the ass to do ALL that work - and have half the mods you use break everytime there is a update- So unless  im missing something completely this is my current understanding of how fallout 4 mod community / system runs right now- and my question is "why?" - Or am I looking at this in the complete wrong way.... Im just hitting errors and issues that don't make much sense to me of why X Y Z wont work because in theory im configured correctly and its leaving only one option to fix which is to install a new game version and update EVERYTHING to match. But, surely they cannot be the case right ? I mean- If the core version of F04 is changing almost every single month, how the fuck do they expect anyone to keep up with this shit and rebuild constantly

 

 

[Just Don't]

39 minutes ago, NiaticLabs said:

Like right now for instance I want to update a animation (Savage cabbage 1.1 to 1.2) - But what im seeing is I need to update AAF to the latest version, but that version is built on FO4 1.10.62 yet im running 1.10.138 - Which means i have to update the core game F04 - Then i can do AAF - Then Savages Animations to 1.2

Because AFF has a dll as part of the mod. most dll files must check for the script extender version. And script extender must be updated after each FO4 update (to accommodate to the new runtime version of the executable). This is the same for Skyrim SE.

 

I'd add the fact that afaik there is no universal framework to handle animations (like FNIS in Skyrim). SoI guess any mod that adds into AFF must be updated to keep up with the current AFF release.

 

45 minutes ago, NiaticLabs said:

because filepaths changed i assume

If a mod changes file path when you update it it's a really, really bad mod. You shouldn't need to do that, why would you need to change file path? everything should be under the same folders and plugin files should keep the same name to assure maximum compatibility with patches, keep the same loadorder, etc.

 

1 hour ago, NiaticLabs said:

I mean- If the core version of F04 is changing almost every single month, how the fuck do they expect anyone to keep up with this shit and rebuild constantly

Can't say for sure, but I think the last update was on April? and the previous one was on Novemeber 2019. I'm checking at the F4SE website because I can't find the complete patch history. But that's kind of similar to what we have on Skyrim, a patch every 3-4 months (maybe more now that the world is utter chaos). I'm not defending Bethesda for their shitty way of pushing the crappy club, all I'm saying is that you might be exaggerating a bit, and suffering a lot from technical/practical limitations that are present on the modding scene for FO4. A shame really, I was thinking on giving it a try now that I have a bit of free time.

[NiaticLabs]

4 minutes ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

Because AFF has a dll as part of the mod. most dll files must check for the script extender version. And script extender must be updated after each FO4 update (to accommodate to the new runtime version of the executable). This is the same for Skyrim SE.

 

I'd add the fact that afaik there is no universal framework to handle animations (like FNIS in Skyrim). SoI guess any mod that adds into AFF must be updated to keep up with the current AFF release.

Thats the benefit and downfall of Fo4- FNIS is not really required to inject animations into the game like it is in skyrim.... which is good for overall just adding in new animations- but mod dependency then vary alot, which branches off down rabbit holes that are pretty convoluted to follow

 

 

7 minutes ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

 

If a mod changes file path when you update it it's a really, really bad mod. You shouldn't need to do that, why would you need to change file path? everything should be under the same folders and plugin files should keep the same name to assure maximum compatibility with patches, keep the same loadorder, etc.

 

Can't say for sure, but I think the last update was on April? and the previous one was on Novemeber 2019. I'm checking at the F4SE website because I can't find the complete patch history. But that's kind of similar to what we have on Skyrim, a patch every 3-4 months (maybe more now that the world is utter chaos). I'm not defending Bethesda for their shitty way of pushing the crappy club, all I'm saying is that you might be exaggerating a bit, and suffering a lot from technical/practical limitations that are present on the modding scene for FO4. A shame really, I was thinking on giving it a try now that I have a bit of free time.

 

Maybe i said that wrong, not file path - but grabbing assets or base scripts- when F04 updates they seem to move things, even so slightly that mods need to be reworked to account for whatever F04 master file edited. Which to me, is why no one has seriosly been going hard on F04 modding scene (at least on this website) cuz its such a pain in the ass to rework stuff unless you are being dedicated to supporting a mod.... Which is fine, but then older mods wear out faster or drop-off in incompatibilities and dont usually get patched.... I mean its worth giving it a try, just problem is once you get a good running/ stable game thats modded to your taste: You kind of have to keep it that way.... but ya their gay club thing really is a fuck up- Gotta make money anyway you can i guess..

[Nebuchadnezzer2]

On 6/4/2020 at 2:18 PM, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

Because AFF has a dll as part of the mod. most dll files must check for the script extender version. And script extender must be updated after each FO4 update (to accommodate to the new runtime version of the executable). This is the same for Skyrim SE.

This, is the main reason for it.
Sure some changes might be backward-compatible with previous game/F4SE versions, but there's no telling whether or not that's the case without extensive and time-consuming testing, and even then, you can never really test every single users mod list/load order and find out.

On 6/4/2020 at 2:35 PM, NiaticLabs said:

Maybe i said that wrong, not file path - but grabbing assets or base scripts- when F04 updates they seem to move things, even so slightly that mods need to be reworked to account for whatever F04 master file edited. Which to me, is why no one has seriosly been going hard on F04 modding scene (at least on this website) cuz its such a pain in the ass to rework stuff unless you are being dedicated to supporting a mod.... Which is fine, but then older mods wear out faster or drop-off in incompatibilities and dont usually get patched.... I mean its worth giving it a try, just problem is once you get a good running/ stable game thats modded to your taste: You kind of have to keep it that way.... but ya their gay club thing really is a fuck up- Gotta make money anyway you can i guess..

That's only been an issue with more 'major' changes, such as .138 and .162.
Smaller increments, such as between .130 and .138 or .162 to .163 are minor and will rarely cause issues, the main problem with those is version-specific updates or changes.

.162/.163 was an issue because they also updated/added several UI and mesh files as well, which broke a few UI mods until updated, among a few other changes.

Outside of a modding-conscious and cooperative dev like Ludeon, updates breaking mods is never going to stop being an issue and even then updates frequently break mods (though they give you a beta branch of any previous updates, so you can stay on those updates if you run into issues or would prefer not to update).
For as much as Bethesda's banged on about modders and modding their games, they've also clearly been pushing more "Verified mods/Our mods only" with their Creation Club, among other things, and are far less open to having everyone mod the shit out of everything they put out, than they used to be prior to FO4.

Until or unless updates to FO4 stop entirely, Creation Club included, it will stay a problem.
Even then, shit like F4SE updates can be problematic, but that's far less widespread of a concern than continual game updates.