Could this become a problem?

[Aki K]

This isn't going into technical support because as far as I can tell, it isn't a problem.  But I've been having a bit of fun and am curious if it could become a problem.

 

So I recently downloaded the following home mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/102976) and I absolutely love it.  Cannot recommend enough.  Now one thing I was warned about is that NPCs that end up in there, such as followers, cannot find their way out without player help....I have been bringing NPCs here on purpose for this very reason.

 

I find an NPC, select them in the console, enter the nightmare, and use "moveto player" to drag them in and trap them in the nightmare as my playthings.  It is a ton of fun.

 

However, I'm sure in the background of the game they are trying to find their way home.  Will this burden the script and cause issues since they are forever trying but cannot find a path home?  In an RTS game I played (OpenRA) the game could seriously lag if NPC pathfinding broke.  Say a bridge was destroyed and the units couldn't reach you but they kept trying to target you.  Huge lag and possible crashes.  Something similar in Skyrim?  Or would Skyrim be safe from something like that?

 

At the moment I have about 8 NPCs in my nightmare realm.  I'd like to add more but first I want to ask this question and see what people think.

 

And again, the reason this isn't in technical support is that so far, no issues.  I'm just curious.

[karlpaws]

18 minutes ago, Aki K said:

This isn't going into technical support because as far as I can tell, it isn't a problem.  But I've been having a bit of fun and am curious if it could become a problem.

 

So I recently downloaded the following home mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/102976) and I absolutely love it.  Cannot recommend enough.  Now one thing I was warned about is that NPCs that end up in there, such as followers, cannot find their way out without player help....I have been bringing NPCs here on purpose for this very reason.

 

I find an NPC, select them in the console, enter the nightmare, and use "moveto player" to drag them in and trap them in the nightmare as my playthings.  It is a ton of fun.

 

However, I'm sure in the background of the game they are trying to find their way home.  Will this burden the script and cause issues since they are forever trying but cannot find a path home?  In an RTS game I played (OpenRA) the game could seriously lag if NPC pathfinding broke.  Say a bridge was destroyed and the units couldn't reach you but they kept trying to target you.  Huge lag and possible crashes.  Something similar in Skyrim?  Or would Skyrim be safe from something like that?

 

At the moment I have about 8 NPCs in my nightmare realm.  I'd like to add more but first I want to ask this question and see what people think.

 

And again, the reason this isn't in technical support is that so far, no issues.  I'm just curious.

I ... really don't know for sure, but I would suspect not.  The game doesn't seem to process NPCs that are not in the cell with you but if their package says they should be in a cell and cannot get there, it just puts them where they should be.  The khajiit caravans are somewhat an example of this: you can find them on the roads because the game keeps track of where they should be, and if you have a quest to speak to or kill one of them the map marker will show you where they are but if you fast travel there they won't be, because as time passed they move.  On the other hand if you rescue an NPC from some place for one of the several radiant quests and send them home, then fast travel there, they show up without you escorting them all the way there.

 

I would suspect the same kind of thing would happen with your moved NPCs... they'll just teleport home when you leave the cell or whenever their AI package changes to the next based on what time it is and when the schedule has something new for them to do.

[Aki K]

2 hours ago, karlpaws said:

I ... really don't know for sure, but I would suspect not.  The game doesn't seem to process NPCs that are not in the cell with you but if their package says they should be in a cell and cannot get there, it just puts them where they should be.  The khajiit caravans are somewhat an example of this: you can find them on the roads because the game keeps track of where they should be, and if you have a quest to speak to or kill one of them the map marker will show you where they are but if you fast travel there they won't be, because as time passed they move.  On the other hand if you rescue an NPC from some place for one of the several radiant quests and send them home, then fast travel there, they show up without you escorting them all the way there.

 

I would suspect the same kind of thing would happen with your moved NPCs... they'll just teleport home when you leave the cell or whenever their AI package changes to the next based on what time it is and when the schedule has something new for them to do.

So my collection might reset?  Interesting.  Further testing is needed.  I have some mod NPCs that have been there for a while but the Vanilla ones might reset.  I suppose I'll find out.

[karlpaws]

1 hour ago, Aki K said:

So my collection might reset?  Interesting.  Further testing is needed.  I have some mod NPCs that have been there for a while but the Vanilla ones might reset.  I suppose I'll find out.

Yup, depending on what you've done to their AI, I would expect them all to vanish when you leave.  Same way a follower can catch up even if you run ahead of them by the length of a hold.. at least with certain mods. Or they just head home after too long. If they don't leave I think it would be because they're not trying to and thus wouldn't be a lag problem either.

 

but.. here's your bucket of salt. ?

[Derpakiin]

No idea how NPCs function in the game if you move them via console, but I do know that summoning them via console multiple times can create clones.

 

Other than that thanks for mentioning this location mod, it has some interesting screenshot potential.

 

[Scrab]

AI packages dont utilise scripts.. usually

What happens is that an NPC checks if his top package is viable, this usually runs a few native checks and if the current package isnt viable, they just go to the next. When none of their packages apply they run a very basic idle package as fallback. Most NPCs are actually using this fallback package a lot of the time. A NPC only leave cells by themself when a package explicitly tells them so

 

Things like cell reset shouldnt concern you if those NPCs are unique. NPCs dont port from A to B just like that, they need a script for that to be executed and as said, AI packages usually dont use scripts

If your NPCs arent unique then you might clone them. Dunno. Imagine a guard A that you take from Windhelm to your nightmare cell and once the Windhelm Cell resets, the game might spawn a new Guard A to replace the one in your nightmare cell to make sure that there is Guard A in town. Thats only a guess tho, I never kidnapped a guard for 30 days

My guess would be that the real issue comes when too many NPCs are at one place, the engine wont have enough ressources to animate them all.. ending in your game freezing or crashing. You know those "Lets spawn a quadrillion cheese in one room just to have my game crash" memes, imagine that with NPCs. NPCs are obviously heavier than cheese, so itll take less than a quadrillion to make that happen

[Aki K]

3 hours ago, Scrab said:

AI packages dont utilise scripts.. usually

What happens is that an NPC checks if his top package is viable, this usually runs a few native checks and if the current package isnt viable, they just go to the next. When none of their packages apply they run a very basic idle package as fallback. Most NPCs are actually using this fallback package a lot of the time. A NPC only leave cells by themself when a package explicitly tells them so

 

Things like cell reset shouldnt concern you if those NPCs are unique. NPCs dont port from A to B just like that, they need a script for that to be executed and as said, AI packages usually dont use scripts

If your NPCs arent unique then you might clone them. Dunno. Imagine a guard A that you take from Windhelm to your nightmare cell and once the Windhelm Cell resets, the game might spawn a new Guard A to replace the one in your nightmare cell to make sure that there is Guard A in town. Thats only a guess tho, I never kidnapped a guard for 30 days

My guess would be that the real issue comes when too many NPCs are at one place, the engine wont have enough ressources to animate them all.. ending in your game freezing or crashing. You know those "Lets spawn a quadrillion cheese in one room just to have my game crash" memes, imagine that with NPCs. NPCs are obviously heavier than cheese, so itll take less than a quadrillion to make that happen

I'm mostly just using "moveto player" and taking actual NPCs.  Also mostly taking NPCs that are named but have no quests, or any quests I care do do that involve them are already done.  Ysolda for example.  I don't intend to have any more than what fits the area, which can be pretty cramped so not worried about too many NPCs. ^-^

 

Thanks for the info.  Very educational. ^-^

[Aki K]

6 hours ago, Derpakiin said:

No idea how NPCs function in the game if you move them via console, but I do know that summoning them via console multiple times can create clones.

 

Other than that thanks for mentioning this location mod, it has some interesting screenshot potential.

 

They have some other good location mods as well.  I think this one is the best so far, but there is a namira themed one, a molag-bal one, a Peryte one, and one where you have to choose between a necromancer lair or a lair dedicated to Meridia (Unless you use console commands.  Then you can choose meridia but add the fast travel spell of the necromancer lair to yourself)

[Aki K]

Skyrim's missing people, and the Nightmare inhabitants. ^-^

 

Spoiler

 

 

FYI, this group has so far not reset after several days.  Some are mod NPCs and some are Vanilla or DLC.  Neither seem to be able to get out.

 

However, my spouse and kids eventually did make it back home.  So there's an interesting fact.  I'm wondering what other NPCs will eventually return home.  Ulfric?  Elisif?  Gonna add both and see what happens.