The Ancient Profession 2023-11-14

[Highborn]

Nice!

[nun56unn5ufg]

I like this mod, sexy yet more tasteful dialogue than many.

(Not "suck my dick bitch" within the first 1-2 sentence)

[ruddycray]

5 hours ago, nun56unn5ufg said:

I like this mod, sexy yet more tasteful dialogue than many.

(Not "suck my dick bitch" within the first 1-2 sentence)

 

Thanks! ngl that was a big motivator for me making my own mod in the first place. That stuff takes me completely out of the game and even the mod.

[Highborn]

Yeah, mods that feel out of place in Skyrim aren't my cup of tea. Immersive/realistic dialogue is crucial for me.

[Herowynne]

I just published Version 2 of KSHair for The Ancient Profession, which adds head meshes for 11 new NPCs included with The Ancient Profession ALPHA 25Jan2021 0.5.

[SenseiBlack]

Nice work, gonna keep an eye on it. Though, I don't find it as immersive as some people say.

The dialogues need rewriting, they feel long and out of place, trying to convey branching.

 

For example: When you meet the madame, she asks you if you are a customer or looking for work.

Easy fix, if she assumed you are looking for work when the player is female or customer if player is male.

 

I got a few more suggestions but, people are going to start hating on me. It's your mod, do whatever you like, I know.

 

 

 

[ruddycray]

11 hours ago, SenseiBlack said:

Nice work, gonna keep an eye on it. Though, I don't find it as immersive as some people say.

The dialogues need rewriting, they feel long and out of place, trying to convey branching.

 

For example: When you meet the madame, she asks you if you are a customer or looking for work.

Easy fix, if she assumed you are looking for work when the player is female or customer if player is male.

 

I got a few more suggestions but, people are going to start hating on me. It's your mod, do whatever you like, I know.

 

 

 

 

I don't mind suggestions. I take them if they make sense to me or fit with the theme of what I'm going for and aren't too crazy or time-consuming to realistically do.

 

It's not unusual for me to revise dialogue several times to streamline it, so I don't mind suggestions about that, either. As with any others, I won't promise I'll take them, but I won't take offense to getting them, either. I'd have to look over what the madames say when you first meet, because honestly I don't remember, but I know that there are a few lines in the "interview" dialogue that I intend to go back and touch up. Personally, I dislike the one where they say "standard sexual intercourse". I just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet .

[Highborn]

btw, nice touch with the dialogue for Benjen girls. Now they really feel like real people. Although I think them walking around naked in town would be too much out of place, but it's not a big deal.

 

 

[Charmingfox]

Evaluation of Ancient Profession Alpha 5:

It’s best that you hold “Quote” for the end, after ready everything. It’s not my attention that you need to stop and answer anything. A simple answer to my question at the end… is more than sufficient. This is only observation of your mod, at its current stage of development from a different point of view or from a different type of role playing game style.

 

Alpha 5 – The two new Dibella’s Gardens Brothels offer nothing in the way of game enhancement and improvement. You should have spent time on building a brothel in Riften for Benjen Black-Brier, who still working behind Haelga’s Bunkhouse, before releasing version 5.

 

You should have likewise spent this time on improving and expanding Dibella’s Garden Brothel in Solitude and expanded on the storyline here. You appear to be deviating away from your original idea. Think outside the brothel to improve and gain business opportunities and political favors for the brothel from hold stewards and important NPCs to make the brothel courtesans of Solitude more interesting and more entertaining to be a wench, madam, doxy, minx, temptress, etc. These playful girls of the brothel could be for the Skyrim wealthy, upper-class clientele and nobilities, whereas 500 to 50,000 in gold is nothing but loose change for sexual appetite of the very privilege NPCs of Skyrim. Here the brothel cut is acceptable, sense it was the brothel that procure the work. With this type of money, a brothel playgirl that has a taste for gold, adventure and sex could purchase her needed skills, armor, weapons, etc.… if you need an idea to play with.

 

In original storyline of Skyrim - Maven Black-Brier controls and runs Riften with an iron hand and is closely associate with Thief's Guild and the Dark Brother Hood, while pulling serious political strings thought-out Skyrim. She is one of the most fear and hated NPC in Skyrim. You seem to overlook this in your storyline.

is in your storyline.

Maul, who meets individual who first enter Riften – works for Maven Black-Brier, could easily been use to instruct a new candidate where to go, if she looking for work, whereas… Maul could also take advantage of the new comer, (Under the, pretends of working for Benjen), etc. for possible idea.

 

Benjen Black-Brier would also be fear and hated as well, which was somewhat apparent in Version 4, when all innkeepers would accept less of the prostitute’s income, rather than the larger amount. You seem to overlook the original Skyrim storyline about Keerava. The innkeeper of the Bee and Bard, who hates the lawless conditions in Riften and Maven Black-Brier! For an individual to be a pimp, they would have to have a very low or no moral conduct about individual that works for them. Pimps are generally, greedy, dishonest, sinful, wicket, unethical and vile individuals, such as Benjen Black-Brier portrays. None of the innkeepers in Skyrim fall into this category. Whereas, Benjen Black-Brier does guarantee that working for him, that a prostitute can keep 40% of their income. Innkeepers would not dare to double-cross him or anger Maven Black-Brier, as a possible idea.

 

You are expecting existing players and new players to use Ancient Profession, when you upgrade each time. Whereby, a player must always start a new clean game, if they want to use the newer updated version.  I can assure you that after completing the quests, which are good – Ancient Profession by itself overtime dose more to discourage using it. A mod must have elements within it… when use that will encourage continual use, rather than discourage its use. When I write a comment… I also think about other players who may be using your mod or are interested in using your mod; for the all the time and effort we spent on testing mods that we want, and the games that have crashes, and hours and days of troubleshooting to restore Skyrim that are games can run again without issues. Starting a new game is often not a simple matter anymore, when players have a large number of mods installed. It takes time to reconfigure the mods at the start of each new game, as you already know. I have a lot respect for mod builders for what they are willing to undertake.

 

Ancient Profession has the ability to piggy back and enhance play through with Winterhold College and/or the Thieves Guild as a prostitute, as I discovered in Alpha 5 at the Winterhold College as a student only, talking to the instructors and obtaining training in exchange for sex, exploring the hidden areas under the collage; avoiding the primary Winterhold College starting quest to play as a prostitute at the college. Whereby, a player could spent over 100 game hours of prostitution and obtain nothing in the way of skill points to advance to the next level. But as a prostitute and a thief or a student, it allows the PC to explore areas of the game that are often over look. Increase interaction and immersion with the NPCs of the game that player may not normally do, because if one is mage or thief only, there always thinking about the next quest....  "In version 4, I notice it, when I was working as prostitute in Riften and not as a thief; because, I have played a thief’s roles in the past. But, I didn’t pick up on it, until version 5 at the college; the advantage of being prostitute and a thief."

 

I stated earlier that this mod overtime will discourage using it. The primary reasons are:

     1. Role playing as a prostitute, a player must accept that their game character or PC is either completely stupid or submissive or wants to role play as a cheat and liar. This is the eventual outcome that must be accepted.

     2. The mod continues to economically suppress the income and growth potential of the prostitute. Regardless of the PC level, a player’s prostitute will always remain economically stagnate at level one.

     3. Base upon the mod’s storyline, it turns all Skyrim innkeepers into pimps. A pimp by definitions is any individual, who in return obtain a share of the earnings, pander, or procurer. This interaction does eventually degrade the original atmosphere and quality of the Skyrim game. Eventually, a player will reach a point that they don’t want to use the mod, because there is no growth potential or enjoyment in having to always be submissive.

     4. When settling the debt with innkeeper, there are two choices only, one truthful and one extremely false. The majority of prostitute customers are outside the tavern and completely out of sight of the innkeeper. However, the innkeeper knows exactly how many customers that prostitute entertained, which destroy the fun in playing the game, because there is no real interaction or surprises here.

     5. If caught lying to the innkeeper the innkeeper will call the prostitute a slut, take the money owned and places a bounty on the prostitute head. This action makes the innkeepers act and look like selfish greedy low life individuals, destroying the original storylines of Skyrim and the history behind each innkeeper story. To avoid this, you must either pay the innkeeper the correct amount or skip town with bounty on your head. This only begins to change, when speech skills significantly increase that lying can be accomplishes successfully.

    6. The smallest monitory system in Skyrim is the one gold septin and calculation must be calculated without leaving a fraction. The 50 gold that prostitute obtain from each customer cannot be divided three ways evenly. Many times throughout the game, I have notice to many calculations that look like mistakes, due to rounding off fractions, such as large odd numbers. If, the prostitute income used even numbers, such as 60, 80, 100 gold, etc.… from each customer and 300, 400, 500 gold, etc.… for entertaining the troops, this annoying issue would disappear; even if the prostitute income should ever increases in future revisions.

    7.  Each quest content centers around, one obtaining a licenses to work as a prostitute in each of the nine holds is not correct. The PC cannot work in each of the nine holds freely. The PC must first agree to pay 15%, 25% or 50% of their income to the innkeepers, or they cannot work at all. This requirement will eventually become tiresome overtime as one plays the game, because you cannot be a prostitute and have fun at it. Eventually, the enjoyment of playing Skyrim for its original content diminishes and a player will begin to regret installing this mod. A female prostitute should be able to have sex in any hold without a license, if not caught by the hold guards or undercover NPCs. The prostitute license is so that regular NPC’s and guards don’t rape her and/or confiscation her income, and also avoid being thrown into jail for few game days of free entertainment for the guards, as punishment for illegal prostitution. In Skyrim game itself, prostitution is already illegal. Use any other prostitution mod, you’ll discover this. Ancient Profession shouldn’t mean that a prostitute requires a pimp or brothel to pedal their trade. Ancient Profession or the oldest occupation in the world obtained its name from the wild and spirited playful and desperate women throughout history from the beginning of time, who took their natural gift and turn it into an asset. A pimp is one who that takes this gift and exploits it into something ugly for their own selfish use.

 

As for the new brothel in Windhelm, it does not comply with the Skyrim storyline. The Nord in this area do not take kindly to outsiders. The Dark Elves are forced to live in the slum of Windhelm. The Argonians are also segregated from the Nord population and are forced to live at the Argonian Assemblage at the city docks. Ulfric Stormcloak forbids the Argonians from living within the city's walls. Other elves race are look down upon, but tolerated. The Stormcloak troops have only contempt towards Elves and outsiders. However, in the Windhelm brothel the prostitutes consist mainly of Dunmer and Argonians and few Stormcloak brothel members. A Stormcloak troop wouldn’t be caught dead in this brothel and Ulfric Stormcloak would forbid his troops to enter and fraternize with the brothel prostitutes. The interior atmosphere is also depressing, with bed rolls on the floor, inside a one room farm house is not my thing. As for the new brothel in Whiterun, the building doesn’t seem to blend in with its surroundings, like its way to close the road or something feels outplace. The only thing worth mentioning… is that it’s an improvement over brothel in Whindhelm. I found the brothels as a waste of time or worth visiting.

 

The only thing I’m interest in at the moment, is the immediate and future plans that a player can expect as a PC Prostitute in later versions in role playing, when the initial quest are complete and updates do not require starting a new game? I’m positive that you address these issues and succeed in your own way, as your mod continues to evolve.

[ruddycray]

12 minutes ago, Charmingfox said:

Alpha 5 – The two new Dibella’s Gardens Brothels offer nothing in the way of game enhancement and improvement. You should have spent time on building a brothel in Riften for Benjen Black-Brier, who still working behind Haelga’s Bunkhouse, before releasing version 5.

 

0.5 was a small update, as I indicated it would be.

 

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 Think outside the brothel to improve and gain business opportunities and political favors for the brothel from hold stewards and important NPCs to make the brothel courtesans of Solitude more interesting and more entertaining to be a wench, madam, doxy, minx, temptress, etc.

 

There will be some interaction with some of these characters, but in general I do not intend to have much more than generic interactions with stewards, because the civil war complicates doing that.

 

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In original storyline of Skyrim - Maven Black-Brier controls and runs Riften with an iron hand and is closely associate with Thief's Guild and the Dark Brother Hood, while pulling serious political strings thought-out Skyrim. She is one of the most fear and hated NPC in Skyrim. You seem to overlook this in your storyline.

 

That ties into my plans for Benjen and Dibella's Garden. Maven will absolutely be playing a role.

 

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Maul, who meets individual who first enter Riften – works for Maven Black-Brier, could easily been use to instruct a new candidate where to go, if she looking for work, whereas… Maul could also take advantage of the new comer, (Under the, pretends of working for Benjen), etc. for possible idea.

 

Some interaction there is worth considering, though it may also require messing with vanilla things, which I generally avoid doing unless it's really adds something.

 

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Benjen Black-Brier would also be fear and hated as well, which was somewhat apparent in Version 4, when all innkeepers would accept less of the prostitute’s income, rather than the larger amount. You seem to overlook the original Skyrim storyline about Keerava. The innkeeper of the Bee and Bard, who hates the lawless conditions in Riften and Maven Black-Brier!

 

I take Keerava as someone who is just trying to make a living but has no choice but to accept whatever comes with Maven and Benjen.

 

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You are expecting existing players and new players to use Ancient Profession, when you upgrade each time. Whereby, a player must always start a new clean game, if they want to use the newer updated version. (and so on)

 

This is coming back to why it's still labeled "Alpha". I'm aware that having to start a new game for a new release is a nuisance, and I don't intend that to be the case forever. Part of this is me needing to learn methods for avoiding this, but it primarily comes from the fact that quest aliases and script properties sometimes don't fill properly when you add them on a game in progress, and sometimes when expanding quests I need to add some. As quest lines stabilize, there will naturally be less need for worrying about this.

 

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4. When settling the debt with innkeeper, there are two choices only, one truthful and one extremely false. The majority of prostitute customers are outside the tavern and completely out of sight of the innkeeper. However, the innkeeper knows exactly how many customers that prostitute entertained, which destroy the fun in playing the game, because there is no real interaction or surprises here.

 

I'll probably be tweaking this, but it will never be that you can 100% get away with lying. I intend it to be a risk.

 

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5. If caught lying to the innkeeper the innkeeper will call the prostitute a slut, take the money owned and places a bounty on the prostitute head. This action makes the innkeepers act and look like selfish greedy low life individuals, destroying the original storylines of Skyrim and the history behind each innkeeper story. To avoid this, you must either pay the innkeeper the correct amount or skip town with bounty on your head. This only begins to change, when speech skills significantly increase that lying can be accomplishes.

 

I don't agree with your assessment here. The innkeepers not being selfish, greedy low-lifes doesn't imply that they would tolerate someone attempting to cheat them after an agreed-upon arrangement. It may make sense to be able to get a better arrangement with higher speech or some other skill, but the innkeepers will still expect you to abide by that agreement.

 

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 A female prostitute should be able to have sex in any hold without a license, if not caught by the hold guards or undercover NPCs.

 

Some ability to do that was in my original plans. I don't know whether I'll actually implement it, mostly because a random prostitution system introduces problems of fitting seamlessly in with the rest of the game. For the moment, it's still in my todo list, but I don't know for sure when or if I'll get to it.

 

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As for the new brothel in Windhelm, it does not comply with the Skyrim storyline. The Nord in this area do not take kindly to outsiders. The Dark Elves are forced to live in the slum of Windhelm. The Argonians are also segregated from the Nord population and are forced to live at the Argonian Assemblage at the city docks. Ulfric Stormcloak forbids the Argonians from living within the city's walls. The Stormcloak troops have only contempt towards Elves and outsiders. However, in the Windhelm brothel the prostitutes consist mainly of Dunmer and Argonians and few Stormcloak brothel members. A Stormcloak troop wouldn’t be caught dead in this brothel and Ulfric Stormcloak would forbid his troops to enter and fraternize with the brothel prostitutes. The interior atmosphere is also depressing, with bed rolls on the floor, inside a one room farm house is not my thing.

 

I can't say I agree with you on this one, either. The design here was explicitly because the Argonians and Dark Elves are the lowest classes in Windhelm, and this is also where you find the largest concentrations of both of them in Skyrim.

 

I think I've answered your final questions in this. But to sum up...as I think I've said before, I'm open to tinkering with the balance and mechanics, especially to have the mod continue to be interesting. I also will eventually make an effort to reduce the frequency of needing new games, but it's not a huge priority at the moment. I do label this "alpha" and "early access" for a reason. It's stable and playable, but it's unfinished and may require more frequent new games than it might otherwise. It's not ready for a game you want to put 100 hours into, unless you're happy with the mod as-is and don't care about upgrading on new versions.

[Herowynne]

1 hour ago, Charmingfox said:

Evaluation of Ancient Profession Alpha 5

 

Just want to say that I disagree with most of the points made by @Charmingfox. I was pleased to see more brothels added.

 

One of the things that always bothered me about vanilla Skyrim was Elisif's line during the Diplomatic Immunity quest "There's no excuse for your behavior! You behave like you're carousing in a house of ill repute, not the residence of the Thalmor Ambassador!"

 

Elisif's line implies that Skyrim has houses of ill repute, a.k.a. brothels, and they are commonplace. Yet vanilla Skyrim's only (sort of) brothel was Haelga's Bunkhouse and it was on the other end of the map from Solitude.

 

I am really happy that the new version of this mod now offers 3 brothels, bringing the total for Skyrim up to 4 if you count Haelga's Bunkhouse. My immersion has greatly improved. Thank you @ruddycray !

[Charmingfox]

It appears that I may have ruffled some feathers and loyal follower, which were not my attentions.

 

 It appears that are views our different on what we classified as a small update. From my many years of experience, a small update is to correct known issues, which are generally annoying rather than adding something new that takes a significant amount time to accomplish and ignore the excising issues; whereas, the word Alpha, is not blanket justifications or an excuse to hide behind. Because, your mod still requires starting a new game to be tested, until that time that this is no longer required… all update of any type must be considered carefully. The only way a player can know what you have accomplished is to install the new update and check it out. Otherwise, why did you bother to provide it?

 

In reference to Keerava and all of the other innkeepers in Skyrim: I would suggest that you take the time and review the original Skyrim storylines. Your assessment of Keerava is correct, but she would not be pimp; nor is Benjen or Maven asking her to be one. She would most likely allow the girl to work in the tavern, as long as she pays for the room.

 

In reference to your view that “The innkeeper are not selfish, they are only upset… because the prostitute is attempting to cheat them after agreed-upon agreement!” Well to start with the player’s prostitute did not have much of a choice in the matter. Ether accepted it or don’t work. This is not a choice, when the prostitute already has a license to work. This is a form of embezzlement. In real life, how would you react? Role playing is no different. Anyway, what did innkeeper lose? The prostitute paid for the room, the innkeeper provides no services. The agreement was for work that was accomplished inside the tavern. The agreement does address work that was accomplish outside of the tavern. If all work is accomplish outside the tavern, what is innkeeper lost? This is your storyline.   

 

Anyway, I’m curious, why cannot a prostitute work freely in the hold, where the licenses was obtain? I cannot see why it would be so difficult to accomplish, when you have already have establish that it can be accomplish. Apparently you thought about it. TD Prostitution and Pimping does not have any issues in random prostitution, as male or female prostitute. I never had any problems with this mod. If I did not discover your mod, I would probably be using it. By now, you’re probably wishing I didn’t find your mod.

 

In reference to Windhelm Brothel: I would suggest that you review the Skyrim storyline for this area. Although, I have been playing Skyrim for over nine years, I still went back and check the Skyrim storyline for this area, before I wrote my observations, just to be sure. I just don’t think you need brothel. One your followers became somewhat upset, when express my views on the new brothels. Apparently, they are not aware that with the right combination of mods, they can obtain same results of a prostitution mod, but the sex is free and a little more difficult to obtain in the game…“Just like in real life.”

 

In reference to the 100 hours. I indicate 100 game hours as a prostitute, which is three hours and twenty minutes of real time. One Skyrim game hour is equal two minutes of real time.

 

You still have not answered my question. The only thing I’m interest is the immediate and future plans that a player can expect as a PC Prostitute in later versions.

[ruddycray]

1 hour ago, Charmingfox said:

It appears that I may have ruffled some feathers and loyal follower, which were not my attentions.

 

 It appears that are views our different on what we classified as a small update. From my many years of experience, a small update is to correct known issues, which are generally annoying rather than adding something new that takes a significant amount time to accomplish and ignore the excising issues; whereas, the word Alpha, is not blanket justifications or an excuse to hide behind. Because, your mod still requires starting a new game to be tested, until that time that this is no longer required… all update of any type must be considered carefully. The only way a player can know what you have accomplished is to install the new update and check it out. Otherwise, why did you bother to provide it?

 

tbh you weren't ruffling my feathers, but this does a bit. I am not "hiding behind" an excuse that it's an alpha. The alpha and early access labels are warnings. They mean the experience may not be as smooth as you would prefer. Take it or leave it. I owe you nothing, and you owe me nothing. I am providing the updates to give access to the mod without waiting two years or more to release it at all. If you want a smoother experience, wait until I stop labeling it that way. I am not going to argue with you over the meaning of a "small update". It is smaller than other updates I've done. End of story.

 

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In reference to Keerava and all of the other innkeepers in Skyrim: I would suggest that you take the time and review the original Skyrim storylines. Your assessment of Keerava is correct, but she would not be pimp; nor is Benjen or Maven asking her to be one. She would most likely allow the girl to work in the tavern, as long as she pays for the room.

 

You would prefer that the innkeepers don't take a cut or take a smaller cut. I've already said I would consider adjusting the balance. I always do quite a bit of research before I make any change. I don't think wanting a cut of someone working in their inns is horribly out of character for the innkeepers. I'm not likely to be convinced otherwise on this.

 

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In reference to your view that “The innkeeper are not selfish, they are only upset… because the prostitute is attempting to cheat them after agreed-upon agreement!” Well to start with the player’s prostitute did not have much of a choice in the matter. Ether accepted it or don’t work. This is not a choice, when the prostitute already has a license to work. This is a form of embezzlement. In real life, how would you react? Role playing is no different. Anyway, what did innkeeper lose? The prostitute paid for the room, the innkeeper provides no services. The agreement was for work that was accomplished inside the tavern. The agreement does address work that was accomplish outside of the tavern. If all work is accomplish outside the tavern, what is innkeeper lost? This is your storyline. 

 

If a business person tells someone "you can work in my establishment, but you owe me a cut of x% of the clients you interact with", and then they find out that the person lied to them about how many clients they actually dealt with, they would not be forgiving. I'm not sure why this is a point of contention, honestly. Beyond that, some of these things you're complaining about are going to be tightened up. Exactly what that looks like remains to be decided.

 

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Anyway, I’m curious, why cannot a prostitute work freely in the hold, where the licenses was obtain? I cannot see why it would be so difficult to accomplish, when you have already have establish that it can be accomplish. Apparently you thought about it. TD Prostitution and Pimping does not have any issues in random prostitution, as male or female prostitute. I never had any problems with this mod. If I did not discover your mod, I would probably be using it. By now, you’re probably wishing I didn’t find your mod.

 

It could, but it isn't the direction I'm likely to go with this. My most likely plan is that you must entertain clients off the streets, which means you need a place to stay. That place should probably include your player home. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I also don't necessarily want you to be able to go up to the Jarl and solicit them or have other weird interactions.

 

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In reference to Windhelm Brothel: I would suggest that you review the Skyrim storyline for this area. Although, I have been playing Skyrim for over nine years, I still went back and check the Skyrim storyline for this area, before I wrote my observations, just to be sure. I just don’t think you need brothel. One your followers became somewhat upset, when express my views on the new brothels. Apparently, they are not aware that with the right combination of mods, they can obtain same results of a prostitution mod, but the sex is free and a little more difficult to obtain in the game…“Just like in real life.”

 

I don't need to review it, because I'm already well aware of it. You seem to be laboring under the idea that just because someone harbors racist sentiments that they wouldn't have sex with or use a person of the race that they're racist against. Without intending to get too real about this, the history of our world shows that not to be true.

 

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In reference to the 100 hours. I indicate 100 game hours as a prostitute, which is three hours and twenty minutes of real time. One Skyrim game hour is equal two minutes of real time.

 

I was not trying to throw anything you said in your face. I was simply stating the fact that if you want to use this mod on a character that you want to play a full game with, you may not be able to update it.

 

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You still have not answered my question. The only thing I’m interest is the immediate and future plans that a player can expect as a PC Prostitute in later versions.

 

I've answered your questions as best I can. I don't plan what I'm going to work on strictly enough to tell you what will be in the next release. I work on what I feel like working on next. As far as specifics on the things you're concerned about, all I can tell you is that I will be working on the balance. I am still happy to hear and consider your concerns on that balance, because it's hard for me to both develop the mod and spend huge amounts of time playing it as a player instead of as a developer. But I can't commit to anything other than to take what you've said into consideration as I make future plans. I can't tell you yet that the fix will be exactly x, y, or z.

[mark44667]

sort of a stupid question but is there more to the dawnstar quest that maybe i'm missing or just go find out from the guy what he saw and tell the steward? am sort of lost

[Charmingfox]

In reference to: "You would prefer that the innkeepers don't take a cut or take a smaller cut." Yes! For a few good reasons:

 

1.      Skyrim storylines and individual innkeeper’s personalities in the game do not follow this type of behavior, with the exception of probably one NPC; and the title of your mod. Ancient Profession, pertains to nature of women.

 

2.      Your mod has a good foundation. But, it hinders or blocks PC growth potential in the game. It needs to compliment the game and the playing style of the player.

 

3.      Make it appear that gold that the innkeeper is asking for, appear as an entertainment tax that innkeeper must collect for their Jarl, etc. whereby, removing the stigma of innkeepers appearing as pimps. Sense it’s a tax, which would allow you to vary the taxes for each different Jarl, from 1 to 20 gold for example: Jarl Kraldar of Wenterhold 20 gold per customer, sense he is somewhat greedy, based upon your storyline to obtain a license; Jarl Ulfric Stormclock of Windhelm 10 or 15 gold, as a war tax base upon the Skyrim storyline; and Jarl Elisif the Fair of Solitude 5 gold, since she supports the Emperor, inexperience and cares for her people, etc. etc... Sense the prostitute is renting the bed for day, and the Skyrim work day is twelve hours, which is eight customers, if the prostitute hassles. Instead of trying to keep track of the number of prostitute customers, you could simply have prostitute pay the innkeeper the entertainment tax upfront or after... for eight customers before they leave the area.  (a) If they pay up front, they can continual to work, as long as they want, if they don’t leave the area. If they leave area, nothing happens. (b) However, if they agreed to pay innkeeper later, then the work ends when they pay the innkeeper. If they fail to pay the innkeeper, then a bounty is place on the prostitute following your storyline.  Like everything in life... It always seems that the more money we make... the more taxes we have to pay.  Skyrim is no different, the Jarls are never satisfied!

 

4.      Sense you like to work with the concept of Brothels, why not expand on this idea as a training intuition for prostitutes. Whereby, a brothel train prostitute can obtain a higher income, when she is not working at brothel. Using today’s concept of a student loan agreement, based upon a percentage of future income of the prostitute. Thereby, elimination the current income stagnations to remain at level one and paying the brothel a percentage of one’s income every two weeks. And, sense prostitute have lots of colorful name, why not use them as diplomas and rank of skills.

 

5. As for  Benjen, his story is still untold.

[Vajda2]

At Dibella’s Garden Brothel in Whiterun, the cell for the clothes men's and nude women's quest is not reset, even though I left Dibella’s Garden Brothel for a day before its second launch. Is it possible to do this with a command?

[ruddycray]

8 hours ago, mark44667 said:

sort of a stupid question but is there more to the dawnstar quest that maybe i'm missing or just go find out from the guy what he saw and tell the steward? am sort of lost

 

As long as you're getting the license, that's all there is. Long term, that quest is going to lead to a bigger quest line, so that is just the introductory quest in that line, and if it seems like it leaves something hanging, it kind of does. But it's purposeful.

[ruddycray]

3 hours ago, Vajda2 said:

At Dibella’s Garden Brothel in Whiterun, the cell for the clothes men's and nude women's quest is not reset, even though I left Dibella’s Garden Brothel for a day before its second launch. Is it possible to do this with a command?

 

It's possible you've found a bug. I tested almost everything else about the new locations, but I didn't specifically test the cell reset, so I may have overlooked something. I'll look into it. Thanks for the report.

[ruddycray]

4 hours ago, Charmingfox said:

In reference to: "You would prefer that the innkeepers don't take a cut or take a smaller cut." Yes! For a few good reasons:

 

1.      Skyrim storylines and individual innkeeper’s personalities in the game do not follow this type of behavior, with the exception of probably one NPC; and the title of your mod. Ancient Profession, pertains to nature of women.

 

2.      Your mod has a good foundation. But, it hinders or blocks PC growth potential in the game. It needs to compliment the game and the playing style of the player.

 

3.      Make it appear that gold that the innkeeper is asking for, appear as an entertainment tax that innkeeper must collect for their Jarl, etc. whereby, removing the stigma of innkeepers appearing as pimps. Sense it’s a tax, which would allow you to vary the taxes for each different Jarl, from 1 to 20 gold for example: Jarl Kraldar of Wenterhold 20 gold per customer, sense he is somewhat greedy, based upon your storyline to obtain a license; Jarl Ulfric Stormclock of Windhelm 10 or 15 gold, as a war tax base upon the Skyrim storyline; and Jarl Elisif the Fair of Solitude 5 gold, since she supports the Emperor, inexperience and cares for her people, etc. etc... Sense the prostitute is renting the bed for day, and the Skyrim work day is twelve hours, which is eight customers, if the prostitute hassles. Instead of trying to keep track of the number of prostitute customers, you could simply have prostitute pay the innkeeper the entertainment tax upfront or after... for eight customers before they leave the area.  (a) If they pay up front, they can continual to work, as long as they want, if they don’t leave the area. If they leave area, nothing happens. (b) However, if they agreed to pay innkeeper later, then the work ends when they pay the innkeeper. If they fail to pay the innkeeper, then a bounty is place on the prostitute following your storyline.  Like everything in life... It always seems that the more money we make... the more taxes we have to pay.  Skyrim is no different, the Jarls are never satisfied!

 

4.      Sense you like to work with the concept of Brothels, why not expand on this idea as a training intuition for prostitutes. Whereby, a brothel train prostitute can obtain a higher income, when she is not working at brothel. Using today’s concept of a student loan agreement, based upon a percentage of future income of the prostitute. Thereby, elimination the current income stagnations to remain at level one and paying the brothel a percentage of one’s income every two weeks. And, sense prostitute have lots of colorful name, why not use them as diplomas and rank of skills.

 

5. As for  Benjen, his story is still untold.

 

1. I think I've said all I'm going to say on this, because it feels like we're going in circles.

 

3. The tax idea is an interesting one. I may incorporate something like that.

 

4. Something similar (maybe not exactly) is in my future plans. I haven't planned out exactly how it's going to work, but I've got a few ideas.

[mark44667]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:00 PM, ruddycray said:

 

As long as you're getting the license, that's all there is. Long term, that quest is going to lead to a bigger quest line, so that is just the introductory quest in that line, and if it seems like it leaves something hanging, it kind of does. But it's purposeful.

ah ok makes total sense i was just wondering if  i'm completely stupid lol i absolutely love the mod everything is very tastefully done thank you so much for your hard work

[mark44667]

On 2/2/2021 at 5:05 PM, ruddycray said:

 

1. I think I've said all I'm going to say on this, because it feels like we're going in circles.

 

3. The tax idea is an interesting one. I may incorporate something like that.

 

4. Something similar (maybe not exactly) is in my future plans. I haven't planned out exactly how it's going to work, but I've got a few ideas.

do they not realize venues charge to use their facilities? ie concert halls ect  a room in an inn is no different imo you are using it to entertain and make money it only seems right for the owner to get a cut if you want to use their establishment to make money yourself else there are plenty of bushes,rocks,caves ect but they don't have comfy beds it's really not hard to spot someone who has no grasp on how the world works in game or irl it takes money to pay tavern wenches to restock food and drink and repair furniture should a client decide they like being rough

[Caiena]

I started getting acquainted with this mod, relatively recently. I want to install this mod to my skyrim and start a new game to enjoy my gentle and defenseless new character.
I have every reason to believe that your mod has a huge potential and many ways to develop the plot. I am happy with the fact that a lot of time is devoted to dialogues. From my point of view, this is a big plus. A lot of mods on LoversLab have a great technical implementation, but are very flawed in terms of the artistic component.

 

I haven't played this mod much, so it's hard for me to judge the dynamics of events and other nuances. However, I looked at your mod in CreationKit and noticed that in many phrases that NPCs say, there is no voice type setting. Given that the Nexus has a completely working program for voice synthesis, I want to ask the question:
Do your future plans include any interaction with this software?

If you don't plan to do voice-over yourself (I know that this is a time-consuming job), will you adjust the existing dialogues so that other people can do voice-over?

Yes, yes, I understand that all this still sounds like children's fairy tales, but tomorrow these questions can become decisive in the quality of modding.

[ruddycray]

10 hours ago, mark44667 said:

do they not realize venues charge to use their facilities? ie concert halls ect  a room in an inn is no different imo you are using it to entertain and make money it only seems right for the owner to get a cut if you want to use their establishment to make money yourself else there are plenty of bushes,rocks,caves ect but they don't have comfy beds it's really not hard to spot someone who has no grasp on how the world works in game or irl it takes money to pay tavern wenches to restock food and drink and repair furniture should a client decide they like being rough

 

I'm assuming the complaint flows in part from the fact that the mod doesn't currently force you to stay off the streets while you're working and doesn't account for, say, going into someone's house and entertaining them in their own bed, which has nothing to do with the innkeeper. Added with the fact that there's no way to start working in town without talking to the innkeeper first.

 

It's not an entirely unfair complaint. I've been aware of some of these issues myself, and in part it's just a reflection of incompleteness. I just can't say exactly what the solution is going to look like yet. But as far as it being out of character for the innkeepers to demand a cut of the work that does occur in their inn, that complaint doesn't make any sense to me.

[ruddycray]

4 hours ago, Caiena said:

I started getting acquainted with this mod, relatively recently. I want to install this mod to my skyrim and start a new game to enjoy my gentle and defenseless new character.
I have every reason to believe that your mod has a huge potential and many ways to develop the plot. I am happy with the fact that a lot of time is devoted to dialogues. From my point of view, this is a big plus. A lot of mods on LoversLab have a great technical implementation, but are very flawed in terms of the artistic component.

 

I haven't played this mod much, so it's hard for me to judge the dynamics of events and other nuances. However, I looked at your mod in CreationKit and noticed that in many phrases that NPCs say, there is no voice type setting. Given that the Nexus has a completely working program for voice synthesis, I want to ask the question:
Do your future plans include any interaction with this software?

If you don't plan to do voice-over yourself (I know that this is a time-consuming job), will you adjust the existing dialogues so that other people can do voice-over?

Yes, yes, I understand that all this still sounds like children's fairy tales, but tomorrow these questions can become decisive in the quality of modding.

 

I've played with that voice synth tool a bit, and it is something I'm interested in doing. That said, it does take a lot of work to get good results out of it, so it's definitely a "someday" thing for me right now. Some of that may be just learning curve, and some of the difficulty is that the tool is buggy and gets into a corrupted state very easily right now.

 

There is no need to set voice types on the individual dialogue lines, though. The voice type setting on the NPCs is what controls where the game looks for the audio. Someone could do voices with the mod today if they just put the sound files in the right place. Voice type conditions on dialogue lines are more appropriate where the words an NPC says might only be used by a cowardly person, or by a haughty person, or whatever. Having the conditions might make it easier to figure out what voice type actually needs audio, but in general it should be obvious even without them.

 

I hope the mod provides some of what you are looking for

[Caiena]

44 minutes ago, ruddycray said:

 

I've played with that voice synth tool a bit, and it is something I'm interested in doing. That said, it does take a lot of work to get good results out of it, so it's definitely a "someday" thing for me right now. Some of that may be just learning curve, and some of the difficulty is that the tool is buggy and gets into a corrupted state very easily right now.

 

There is no need to set voice types on the individual dialogue lines, though. The voice type setting on the NPCs is what controls where the game looks for the audio. Someone could do voices with the mod today if they just put the sound files in the right place. Voice type conditions on dialogue lines are more appropriate where the words an NPC says might only be used by a cowardly person, or by a haughty person, or whatever. Having the conditions might make it easier to figure out what voice type actually needs audio, but in general it should be obvious even without them.

 

I hope the mod provides some of what you are looking for

I really don't want to look intrusive. I know that modding is a very time-consuming job, but I spoke with good reason.
In the mod, there are phrases that cannot be used to make sound files without editing the mod or using SharedInfoTopic and another ESP.
Your mod is in a state of development and editing it, except for you, as the Author, does not make any sense.
Creating an additional ESP with dialog editing is a bad idea. Many Dialogs have scripts attached to them, and this will be an additional threat of failure.

Actually, I asked the question thinking about it. If you don't want to do this, no one will blame you. Your intellectual contribution to LoversLab is already quite large. I just wanted some certainty.

Spoiler