Advice on making two different meshes compatible?

[Zantheros]

I want to make some mature edits to the dragons added by the Akatosh Mount mod by Saiden Storm... but there's a problem I'm noticing right off the bat. All nodes in the models and their skeleton appear in NifSkope with data values beginning in "Bip02", and the parts I want to add to them (the non-aroused male genitalia from TealEri's mature mod for Curse of Hircine - Resurrected) have skin instances connecting to nodes with values beginning in "Bip01". This means that, even though the genitalia only need to be connected to the pelvis node and scene root, they aren't able to connect to the pelvis nodes of the dragon models.

 

- Removing the pelvis node requirement allows the parts to appear in game, but they simply float there, completely static. Considering the dragons' undersides rise and fall with the breathing of their primary idle animation, this makes it look rather silly.

- Editing the skin instance value of the parts to "Bip02" allows connection to the dragons, and after a while of resizing and repositioning (since it "spawns in" lopsided and inside the creature after copy-pasting to the scene root), it looks very natural... however, it doesn't show up in game, regardless of the optimization and cleanup steps taken in NifSkope or its order in the scene's hierarchy. Assigning different textures - even if they're in the dragons' folder - has made no difference.

 

I suspect some of the issue finds its root in the fact that the werewolf genitals are classified as armor meshes, and I'm trying to apply them to a creature mesh. However, with the existence of many creature armor mods out there, I know this is something that can be worked around.

What I'm asking in this topic, is how I can do that, to get these parts to integrate with the dragons and appear in game. I can't find any tutorials anywhere else that can help me, so I reach out the community for this one.

 

NOTE: I do not intend to publish this anywhere. This is solely for personal use, as I'm unsure about the liberties the mod authors allowed when uploading their work.

 

Werewolf anatomy can be found here.

 

[movomo]

Forget about mesh type, there's no real difference between armor or creature meshes. The way the skin data is interleaved in the model file is complicated. I'd be surprised if renaming bones is at all possible with Nifskope. Unless someone else has better idea/experience, I think it needs to undergo a normal export procedure from Blender.

 

[fejeena]

You can not copy a body part from one nif to another if they do not use the same skeleton.

If change position in a Nif with bones ( Skin Instance ) you must weight it.

If you copy a nif part in a nif with different bones ( different skeleton ) you must weight it.

Or the new nif part will not move with the skeleton.

 

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You want the werewolves dicks and add it to a dragon nif.

You first remove the Skin Instance ( Yes I know that is not the werewolf nif you use )

Click the Value part and delete the entry, then it will look like the screenshot above.

 

Then you use CopyBranch and past the dick in the dragon nif ( Without Skin Instance there are no Bip01 / Bip02 problems )

 

You move the dick to the right position and then use "Transform" -  "Apply"   Then save.

 

Now you can use Blender or MeshRigger to weight the dick to the bones and new position.

 

I don't know how to do it with Blender.

 

If you use MeshRigger:

You use a dragon nif as template

 

And you use and copy of the dragon nif with dick and delete  all other nif parts exept the dick and the bones you want to use. You need the Bip0? Pelvis  and other bones you can test if the "only Pelvis" dick does not work right , then you can test Bip0? R Thigh , Bip0? L Thigh and/or Bip0? Spine

The bones you do not want to use you delete, so MeshRigger can only use the bones you want.

 

Now you have this. The NiNode ( Bone) you need/want and the dick.

 

Then you add a empty Skin Instance to the dick

NiSkinInstance

NiSkinData

NiSkinPartition

Linking them correctly

 

and set Skin Instance in the dick part ( See first screenshot: there where you delete the Skin Instance you add it now )

 

 

 

Now you have

 

The dick nif you put in the MeshRigger Target folder.

 

Then you run MeshRigger and choose your template nif and target nif and save folder.

Wait.

Then open the ourtput folder and open your new nif and copy Branch  the dick in a dragon nif.

 

Now the dick is weighted and will move with the skeleton bones of the dragon.

 

Maybe you need some tries and must add some of the bones I mentioned above untill you get a good result.

 

 

 

[Zantheros]

Okay so... I'm running into a bit of a snag here.

 

Everything is all set up as in your example, it just has a different visual appearance since (it seems) we're using different versions of NifSkope.
But there's a problem. The screenshots show that with the SkinPartition, nothing is showing up, but withOUT it, it does.

 

How can this be fixed?
Or is it simply a visual bug that doesn't need fixing?

[fejeena]

Yes I use a old NifSkope version  ( so old it can not open Skyrim nif files )

 

-----------------------

 

Do you use a new/ empty NiSkinPartition, NiSkinData, NiSkinInstance ?  Not copied from another nif ( werewolf nif or drogon nif )

If you use a  "used" SkinInstance the position of the dick can be totally wrong, but it is somewhere  and is visible,   maybe far above the position you have choosen.

 

Meshrigger get better results when you use a empty/new SkinInstance .

 

Can you upload the dragon nif you want to use.  And the dick nif. ???

 

########################

And now to something completely different: I see your Oblivion install path in the screenshots.  C: / Program files (x86) / ....

Do you use OBSE  and LoversMods?  And does erverything work?

 

NEVER INSTALL Oblivion and Steam in C : / program files (x86) / ....

Read my yellow Link below. ( in my signature)

If you have absolutely no problems with the game do not change it. But if you ever get problems then remember it can be the wrong install location

 

[Zantheros]

Yes, I created completely new NiSkinPartition, NiSkinData, and NiSkinInstance parts. I did my best to follow your instructions to the letter, of course with a little bit of compensation for the different NifSkope versions.

 

Despite the install locations, I've never had any problems with Oblivion. At least, not until I started pushing my poor laptop's GPU to the limit with various graphics and environment mods. Of course, just disabling/uninstalling those fixes the issues, so I'm not that concerned about it.

 

Anyway, included in this zip file is the werewolf body .nif from where I get the equipment, and one of the dragon .nif 's that I want to edit. This particular one is the one that I test the changes on in-game, and if it works, it's a simple matter of copy-pasting it onto all the other dragon models, since they're all identical save for how much wing membrane they possess.

Nifs.zip

[fejeena]

No the dick nif you have made. I do not know the position you want. or the scale.

And I want to check what's wrong in your created nif.

 

Here is the dick if I copy it in the dragon nif

I am sure you want another position. And maybe size x2  ?

 

 

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EDIT

Scaled and in new position ( with empty skin instance )

 

 

EDIT 2 :

Here a dick with pelvis and spine bone  ( no good MeshRigger results with only pelvis )  And I hope a good UV placement ( the texture of the dick )

Akatosh MH Red test2.nif

[Zantheros]

Oh, I see. My apologies then. Here's the one I created following your instructions.
Don't mind the same folder name, I just took the other meshes out of it and placed in the modified werewolf equipment.

Nifs.zip

[fejeena]

Are you sure you rum MeshRigger ?

Your skin data is empty.  Only in the NiSkinInstance the pelis bone is added, but in the NiSkinData the bone list is empty ( no bone  and so you have no "Num Vertices"  and "Vertex Weights".   And the NiSkinPartition is alos without any entries.

 

And the  NiNode  Bip02 Pelvis  is "wrong" (damaged)

Don't know how it could happen if you followed my instructions. "delete all bone except the pelvis bone"  In the dragon nif the bones are ok.

 

 

OK size and position are ok,  i'll try MeshRigger.

EDIT:  sorry it is impossible with MeshRigger. The size of the dick it too big, some parts are too fare away from the bones , and then MeshRigger stretch / deform these parts. ( I tried it with 3 MeshRigger versions and different settings )

As you see in my nif I posted above a smaller dick works.

Use my nif with smaller dick or find someone who can use Blender and weight the big dick.

[Zantheros]

Well as I have mentioned, I couldn't follow your instructions perfectly, due to the difference in NifSkope versions we have. I had to compensate with a confusing hierarchy sub-list that your version doesn't have, as our screenshots show. Additionally, in order to match your component order, I had to override the default order that my version assigned the components to. Which was a little irritating. If I had to take a guess - and do keep in mind that's all this is, a guess - my version is optimized for Skyrim, and as such, has lost some functionality for older Oblivion .nif files like these, giving unfavorable results.

 

I'll go ahead and try what you've managed to do. Hopefully it will still have produced the results I've been hoping for.

[movomo]

Your nif file and nifskope have precisely same hierarchy as Fejeena's. It's just that Fejeena is viewing them as list view while you're browsing them as tree view. Although, it is a very real possiblity that the more recent versions had way too many regressions to continue to work for Oblivion.

[fejeena]

The "wrong" (damaged) bone can not be the different NifSkope version.  

I use a old NifSkope that can not open Skyrim nif. The new versions have some lines and entries you do not use in Oblivion.

That was too confusing for me and I had some problems, so I installed the old NifSkope version.

But if you set your NifSkope to list view the difference to the old NifSkope is not so big and you can follow/recognize the steps of my instruction better.

 

Have you tested the Akatosh MH Red test2.nif  that I have uploaded?  It works, but the dick is smaller.

[Zantheros]

Quote

Your nif file and nifskope have precisely same hierarchy as Fejeena's. It's just that Fejeena is viewing them as list view while you're browsing them as tree view. Although, it is a very real possiblity that the more recent versions had way too many regressions to continue to work for Oblivion.

Quote

I use a old NifSkope that can not open Skyrim nif. The new versions have some lines and entries you do not use in Oblivion.

That was too confusing for me and I had some problems, so I installed the old NifSkope version.

But if you set your NifSkope to list view the difference to the old NifSkope is not so big and you can follow/recognize the steps of my instruction better.

I guess making use of this most recent version of NifSkope when I'm still really new to modding, is the equivalent of jumping into the deep end of a pool when I only know how to doggy paddle. It might be best if I follow your example and use an old version of the program - simpler, so I'm not trying to wrap my head around so many things at once.

 

Would you happen to have a download link to the version that you use? I think if this entire discussion thread has taught me anything, it's that I might be biting off a little more than I can chew, with what I've currently got.

 

Quote

Have you tested the Akatosh MH Red test2.nif  that I have uploaded?  It works, but the dick is smaller.

Indeed I have. And curiously, I was actually able to restore the equipment to the size I had originally intended, and it not cause any issues whatsoever in game. Though a larger size couldn't work well in MeshRigger, I was able to scale the vertices in NifSkope and do a little repositioning of the mesh without distorting it. Honestly, I'm surprised that it worked; I had doubts, based on what you told me. The screenshot shows the results of that.

 

You have my tremendous thanks for both helping me and teaching me about this. You too, Movomo, for helping convince me that an older version of NifSkope is probably better regardless of my inexperience, since I don't have Skyrim on this laptop.

[fejeena]

If you install another NifSkope version unistall the old version first, delete it completly !

 

The 1.0.22 version I use ....  fuck no download at the NifSkope page but I found this Link.

 

https://www.moddb.com/downloads/nifskope1

 

EDIT;  yes sometimes scaling and position change of the Nif with skin instance with NifSkope works, ... but in most cases it does not work and you need Blender or MeshRigger.

Good to see that you had success.