Heppai Posted August 5, 2019 Posted August 5, 2019 Hey everyone, Trying to figure out this issue. It started a few days ago where I would use Bathing in Skyrim. Crashes kept occurring while in Whiterun Hold area. I would start bathing and the game would crash. I should mention that I have no water mods installed and never have. Initially I thought it was the bathing mod, but I walked up to water to get a refill via iNeed, but it crashed nearly as soon as I looked at the water. Not much has changed, I've played this playthough for hours without issues on this level 30 something mage. Anyone have any suggestions? = Check Mods This is a report on your currently active/merged mods. === Mergeable Following mods are active, but could be merged into the bashed patch. * AnotherSortingMod-2016.esp * AOS2_DSI Patch.esp * AOS2_IWIE Patch.esp * AOS2_SupremeStorms Patch.esp * AOS2_TrueStorms Patch.esp * AOS2_WAF Patch.esp * AOS2_WetandCold Patch.esp * Bathing in Skyrim - Interactive Wash Basins For Hearthfire.esp * ISC DeadlySpellImpacts Patch.esp * Kai's Lipstick.esp * LSFX-Audiosettings.esp * randomthunder.esp * Rebalanced Encounter Zones - Lite.esp * RevampedExteriorFog.esp * RLO - Illuminated Spells.esp * SexLab Sound FX Replacer.esp * __Skyrim Particle Patch for ENB - Flame Atronach Fix.esp__ * __SMIM-DungeonsCliffsIceSkirts.esp__ * __STFU.esp__ * __STFUbitch.esp__ * __Supreme Storms.esp__ * __Tiwa44_Minidresses.esp__ * __Tiwa44_Minidresses_Dragonborn.esp__ * __TrueStorms-PureWeather.esp__ * __TrueStorms-SupremeStorms-Vanilla.esp__ * __Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp__ === Active Mod Files: * 00 Skyrim.esm * 01 Update.esm * 02 Dawnguard.esm * 03 HearthFires.esm * 04 Dragonborn.esm * 05 Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm * 06 Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp [Version 3.0.12] * 07 Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm * 08 Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm * 09 SexLab.esm [Version 1.62] * 0A SexLabAroused.esm [Version 2.8] * 0B Devious Devices - Assets.esm [Version 2.8.3] * 0C BeeingFemale.esm [Version 2.8] * 0D PubicMeshColorRE.esm * 0E BSAssets.esm * 0F BSHeartland.esm * 10 BS_DLC_patch.esp * 11 Campfire.esm * 12 hdtHighHeel.esm * 13 Falskaar.esm * 14 Devious Devices - Integration.esm * 15 Devious Devices - Expansion.esm * 16 ETaC - RESOURCES.esm * 17 ApachiiHairFemales.esm * 18 ApachiiHair.esm * 19 ZaZAnimationPack.esm * 1A Cutting Room Floor.esp [Version 2.0.8] * 1B Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp * 1C Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp * 1D Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp * 1E Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp * 1F AnotherSortingMod-2016.esp * 20 RLO - Interiors.esp * 21 RLO - Effects.esp * 22 mintylightningmod.esp * 23 SkyUI.esp * 24 UIExtensions.esp * 25 AddItemMenu2.esp * 26 Falskaar Wildlife.esp * 27 SMIM-DragonbornTernFix.esp * 28 SMIM-DungeonsCliffsIceSkirts.esp * 29 RaceMenu.esp * 2A RaceMenuPlugin.esp * 2B FNIS.esp * 2C VioLens.esp [Version 2.11] * 2D SSAssist.esp * 2E SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp * 2F SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp * 30 AOS.esp [Version 2.5.1DGDB] * 31 WetandCold.esp * 32 SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp * 33 KS Hairdos - HDT.esp * 34 Character Creation Overhaul.esp * 35 WetandCold - Ashes.esp * 36 Fantasy Soundtrack Project.esp * 37 CCO - Diverse Races And Genders.esp * 38 CCO - Dynamic Skill Progression.esp * 39 CCO - Oblivion Carry Weights.esp * 3A DSerArcheryGameplayOverhaul.esp * 3B FNISSexyMove.esp * 3C KaiSFemaleHHDT.esp * 3D Footprints.esp * 3E Animated Weapon Enchants.esp * 3F DeadlySpellImpacts.esp * 40 Immersive Sounds - Compendium.esp * 41 BFSEffects.esp * 42 STFUbitch.esp * 43 Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp * 44 RevampedExteriorFog.esp * 45 TrueStorms.esp * 46 TrueStorms-PureWeather.esp * 47 Supreme Storms.esp * 48 TrueStorms-SupremeStorms-Vanilla.esp * 49 randomthunder.esp * 4A AOS2_DSI Patch.esp * 4B AOS2_SupremeStorms Patch.esp * 4C AOS2_TrueStorms Patch.esp * 4D AOS2_WetandCold Patch.esp * 4E LSFX-Audiosettings.esp * 4F RaceMenuMorphsUUNP.esp * 50 Remodeled Armor - Dragonborn.esp * 51 Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp * 52 Remodeled Armor.esp * 53 Tiwa44_Minidresses.esp * 54 Tiwa44_Minidresses_Dragonborn.esp * 55 TavernClothes-MTM.esp * 56 SexLabDefeat.esp * 57 BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp * 58 SLALAnimObj.esp * 59 SLAnimLoader.esp * 5A Player Size Adjuster.esp * 5B AK_RM_PubicStyles_All_In_One.esp * 5C Brows.esp * 5D Kai's Lipstick.esp * 5E TheEyesOfBeauty.esp [Version 9] * 5F SLA Monitor Widget.esp * 60 Simple Slavery Defeat.esp * 61 SexLab Warmbodies.esp * 62 CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp * 63 ETaC - Complete.esp * 64 Book Covers Skyrim.esp * 65 MoreBanditCamps(Explorer'sEdition).esp [Version 1.5] * 66 Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp [Version v6.5.2b] * 67 RLO - Exteriors.esp * 68 Book of UUNP Iron And Steel.esp * 69 Andromeda - Unique Standing Stones of Skyrim.esp * 6A RLO - CRF Patch.esp * 6B Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp * 6C NARC.esp * 6D Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp [Version v6.5.2a] * 6E Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp * 6F Sacrosanct - 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The Spell Package.esp * 92 Raven Witch Armor.esp * 93 Real Clouds.esp * 94 ADS.esp * 95 AOS2_IWIE Patch.esp [Version 2.1] * 96 AOS2_WAF Patch.esp * 97 Remodeled Armor - Dawnguard.esp * 98 mihailcrystalgolem.esp * 99 mihailarachnomorph.esp * 9A DeviouslyHelpless.esp * 9B Imperious - Races of Skyrim.esp * 9C SexLab Romance.esp * 9D Headtracking.esp * 9E Skyrim Particle Patch for ENB - Flame Atronach Fix.esp * 9F SexLab Sound FX Replacer.esp * A0 NusbieVoices.esp * A1 Rebalanced Encounter Zones - Lite.esp * A2 High Level Enemies - Dragonborn.esp * A3 SexLabMassMatchMaker.esp * A4 Toccata.esp * A5 AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp * A6 STFU.esp * A7 Immersive Weapons.esp * A8 Schlongs of Skyrim.esp * A9 WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp * AA High Level Enemies.esp * AB High Level Enemies - Dawnguard.esp * AC Bijin Warmaidens.esp * AD Bijin NPCs.esp * AE Serana.esp * AF NS_HuntingGroundsOutfit.esp * B0 Predator Vision.esp * B1 XPMSE.esp * B2 DarkReplacer.esp * B3 SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp * B4 RohZima_AnimObjects.esp * B5 Bathing in Skyrim - Main.esp * B6 InteractiveWashBasinsAllHFHomes.esp * B7 Bathing in Skyrim - Interactive Wash Basins For Hearthfire.esp * B8 KS Hairdo's.esp * B9 MilkModNEW CF.esp * BA MilkModNEW HF.esp * BB LPBards.esp * BC Bijin Wives.esp * BD 12FemaleBrows.esp * BE SexLab Strapon.esp * BF ISC DeadlySpellImpacts Patch.esp * C0 TakeNotes.esp * C1 Apocalypse - Ordinator Compatibility Patch.esp * C2 STEP Combined PluginHF.esp [Version 2.2.9.1] * C3 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp [Version 3.1.7] * C4 Alternate Start -- New Beginnings.esp * C5 Deviously Cursed Loot LAL AddOn.esp * C6 Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Heppai Posted August 5, 2019 Author Posted August 5, 2019 Bump? Just looking for something to start with. Anyone? I'll try cutting down mods if your suggestions dont work but this seems specific to texture. I only have a few but none that alter vanilla water.
Heppai Posted August 5, 2019 Author Posted August 5, 2019 Unrelated. Do scripts grow through playtime? As mods are activated though the course of a game, can they begin to grow and conflict the longer the playtime in that save game? Therefore, a save game could potentially become unplayable if it's wasnt wholly stable to begin with? I'm just trying to figure this out on my own, you dont have to answer the OP if you don't know.
Gameplayer Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 Just off the top of my head I'd say that the issue is related to your mods that effect water. However I just don't want to crawl through your whole load order. I'm going to go ahead and rule out water meshes since by now and given how popular those were they would have been fixed straight away. So that leaves... Well you may need to have compatibility patches between Bathing, Ineed, and of course perhaps WetnCold or Frostfall if you have those. Now consider this....1 such mod itself is changing how water interactions happen.... However you have like 4 of them, so that's a lot for the game to process everytime you come near water. Then well I did have a peep at your load order and saw that you have a lot of other mods that make script calls and do so on regular intervals, Now that doesn't mean your going to have to rip everything out but bear in mind that when you start modding up Skyrim there is a point where you have to get familiar with tuning up your game and making hard calls about what stays in the LO and whats going to go. Devious Devices mods, WetnCold Frostfall Camping HDTHighHeels <---Constant calls to adjust height---->Use NioOverride Heels instead, its built into Racemenu actually. Theres a lot more stuff in there too... Point is you may need someone that has practice reading papyrus and doing those sorts of tweaks to the script engine to help you sort this out. I'd like to run Frostfall along with Devious Devices and all that but Im not willing to have all the hassle of both Device play plus weather, just game mechanics wise and then there is possible loss in performance even when I have no issues with crashing. My point is you wouldn't likely be here asking about your crashing if you had just been more restrained about your choices of mods in your Load Order. My advice is just start trimming out mods, there really isn't a hard science to this, just make picks about what stays in the LO for your current play. Trim enough and the issue shouldn't effect you anymore. Or Ask around for someone that has experience reading the papyrus maybe its really a specific script interaction leading up to your crash. Its probably just too many scripts trying to get processed all at the same time to be honest, that leads to what is called a stack dump and well that crashes the game.
Gameplayer Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 20 hours ago, Heppai said: Bump? Just looking for something to start with. Anyone? I'll try cutting down mods if your suggestions dont work but this seems specific to texture. I only have a few but none that alter vanilla water. So anyone coming in and reading might think, man he didn't read this comment. Or there isn't anything effecting water... But there are mods in his LO effecting water....And there are a few just looking in the LO off the top of my head, WetNCold Frostfall BathinginSkyrim Ineed All of these have some sort of interaction via a script package with water. Doesn't change my line of thinking from earlier, It seems to me that the game is suffering from a script related crash due to the papyrus engine just having too many mods to process for when the player gets near water. So very likely the solution is simply to cut back on the number of mods making script calls, that's something the player has to make decisions for, Another solution might be to start making changes to how papyrus operates in the INI files but that's not a good solution as leaving it default is often for the best. There may be other solutions that are handy, mentioned Crash Fixes mod but that may not actually solve a situation with script overload. Player may also find that making adjustments in MCM menu's for these mods may solve the problem but it should be understood that means turning off features or tuning in the MCM to make whatever script call less frequent than its default settings. Problem would still be there and may come up again if more such mods are loaded into the LO, just offering a surprise later. It may be that the user hasn't properly installed SSME or put the memory tweaks in for SKSE. Thing is that there are enough script mods in this LO that I wouldn't be surprised by crashing from script burdens. End User should practice some restraint when picking out mods for current play session, listed mods are fine but running them altogether may not be. Ultimately removing some mods from the LO will give a more stable play environment.
yatol Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 51 minutes ago, Gameplayer said: Doesn't change my line of thinking from earlier, It seems to me that the game is suffering from a script related crash due to the papyrus engine just having too many mods to process for when the player gets near water. if you think you can ctd because of scripts, try to make a script that can ctd the game
Grey Cloud Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Gameplayer said: Doesn't change my line of thinking from earlier, It seems to me that the game is suffering from a script related crash due to the papyrus engine just having too many mods to process for when the player gets near water. 1. You are stood in the middle of Solitude or Whiterun in the middle of the day. 2. You are stood next to a small lake or river in the middle of nowhere. Which scenario do you think would involve the most scripts?
Gameplayer Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said: 1. You are stood in the middle of Solitude or Whiterun in the middle of the day. 2. You are stood next to a small lake or river in the middle of nowhere. Which scenario do you think would involve the most scripts? How about you help the OP, One might think you were harassing me. If its not harassment, Explain how your post directed at me actually solves the OP's problem? Explain in depth how familiar you are with using the mods in his LO and how you yourself got that load order to work. Explain it, cause clearly your not here to help.
Gameplayer Posted August 6, 2019 Posted August 6, 2019 3 hours ago, yatol said: if you think you can ctd because of scripts, try to make a script that can ctd the game This is the second time in two days you've attacked me in the Tech Support. You also haven't provided anything new or useful in both cases. In the Prior case I successfully helped the poster while you provided nothing but trolling. You have a history of doing this to people on these forums.
Grey Cloud Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 12 hours ago, Gameplayer said: One might think you were harassing me. Only if one was a mard-arse. I am challenging what you posted. How does you posting nonsense help the OP? 12 hours ago, Grey Cloud said: Which scenario do you think would involve the most scripts? You didn't answer my question.
Grey Cloud Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 Let's start at the beginning. On 8/5/2019 at 9:36 AM, Heppai said: Not much has changed, What has changed? On 8/6/2019 at 12:31 AM, Heppai said: Do scripts grow through playtime? Scripts don't grow in size or number. The number is however many you have from the mods in your load order. The number of active scripts changes throughout the game - sometimes more, sometimes less depending on various factors. Save Game Script Cleaner will give you the numbers. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52363?tab=files I don't use iNeeds or Bathing in Skyrim so I don't know them. Do you crash if you are near water or just when you try to do something relating to one of these mods? Can you do anything non-water-related that is from iNeeds or BiS? EDIT: There are only about 24 scripts in Bathing in Skyrim and only about four of them are 3kb or over. Can't say for iNeeds as it uses a bsa.
yatol Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 14 hours ago, Gameplayer said: In the Prior case I successfully helped the poster while you provided nothing but trolling. there's everything he need to fix his conflict, whatever it is, in my post (you can copy paste that in all topics, that will fix all ctd, removing the problem always work, anyone can do that, while most will have no idea how to patch the problem) 14 hours ago, Gameplayer said: In the Prior case I successfully helped the poster while you provided nothing but trolling. don't see op posting something about his problem being solved above have some serious doubts on your blabla about scripts being able to ctd the game anyway, never saw that, and i took care of a lot of conflicts navmesh conflict ctd, skeleton ctd, ram ctd i don't have but many have, this have nothing to do with scripts only problem i had with scripts, it's mod x mess that suck so much it create stack dump paradise, breaking its stuff, and the script that kill you if you don't equip a torch... if that's not unload (you don't crash, but you keep dying) and requiem debuff that are the same, resistance malus that stay... of course the game become hard with -120% resistance to fire or whatever (you can also end with negative weapon damage) the enderal house script work now? when i tried that mod, it was loading the standingstill idle when you were leaving the house (getting you stuck in front of the house, and that's it, you won't crash because of that)
Gameplayer Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 Enough, @ Yatol @ Greycloud, IF your both so hot to correct people on their basic understanding of scripts and the papyrus system than you need to do so properly and open your own sticky thread on it. Meanwhile you have not actually told the OP anything that will resolve the issue that hasn't already been mentioned. Use of save cleaners, if your using a save cleaner to fix an issue that only comes up from having put a lot of mods in the game....Well that's self inflicted and could be argued to be pointless and not happen if one did not do this. For the average user it sets up a situation where they have to use a save cleaner everytime they play....That seems to me not a good solution and last time I was on the save game cleaner page not what was suggested for its usage. Im done with this thread, perhaps you can finally help the OP. Doesn't matter if it turns out that Im wrong about scripts, seriously it does not cause at the end...The OP will have to trim his load order. So you haven't actually helped anyone. You haven't told the OP anything new that will help him and you have provided no new solutions. You want to address the issue of people not understanding what you understand about scripts...Open a Thread rather than hijacking a Tech Support thread.
Grey Cloud Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: IF your both so hot to correct people on their basic understanding of scripts It's your misunderstanding of scripts that is the problem. The subject has been discussed many times on here on LL. 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: Meanwhile you have not actually told the OP anything that will resolve the issue that hasn't already been mentioned. I have made some suggestions and asked some questions. When the OP gets back with more information then we can proceed from there. All you have done is provide misinformation. And you still haven't answered my question. 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: Use of save cleaners, if your using a save cleaner to fix an issue that only comes up from having put a lot of mods in the game....Well that's self inflicted and could be argued to be pointless and not happen if one did not do this. For the average user it sets up a situation where they have to use a save cleaner everytime they play....That seems to me not a good solution and last time I was on the save game cleaner page not what was suggested for its usage. Can't understand what you are waffling on about here. I mentioned save cleaner in connection with identifying how many scripts one had and how many were active. It's the quickest and simplest way to get the information that I know of. I do use it in most games to get rid of orphan scripts which are generally caused by me removing mods in mid-game. That's just the way I play Skyrim and contrary to what sheeple believe, it seldom if ever breaks my game. 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: Doesn't matter if it turns out that Im wrong about scripts, seriously it does not cause at the end...The OP will have to trim his load order. Yes it does matter because you are spreading misinformation. Why will the OP have to trim his load order? The number of mods is largely, if not completely, irrelevant. The number of plug-ins is a different issue. 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: Open a Thread rather than hijacking a Tech Support thread. I didn't hijack the thread. I responded to what you had posted and challenged you in order to save the OP from wasting his time over scripts. You have failed to come up with anything to back up your assertion or answer my question but have instead danced about trying to evade the issue.
Grey Cloud Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 No idea what happened to the text in the above post, it was fine when I typed it.
yatol Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Gameplayer said: Meanwhile you have not actually told the OP anything that will resolve the issue that hasn't already been mentioned. oh, i forgot to copy paste the usual bullshit? here it is On 8/3/2019 at 6:47 PM, yatol said: bet when you equip that armor on those npc, it unequip something that was using that sbp, and that something was there for its stuff, isn't compatible with whatever you gave to that npc, and that's your ctd something you may not find in npc inventory, in there you don't see lydia armor, because that come from her outfit, you can't loot from her, and you don't see either armor femalenudebody, because that armor name is "", it's for the same reason you don't find poser token in inventory, their name is "" and the fastest way to find out in what's the problem, is to load the game with half your load order, give the same armor to the same npc, and if that no longer crash, you reload the game after enabling half of what you disabled, and again and again until you ctd again then you check what that mod, to find out why it's a problem when you give an armor to that npc, and either you make your patch, either you get rid of the mod a few personalisation for the op and it's ready bet when you look at that water, game load whatever the fastest way to find out what's is whatever, is to load the game with half your load order, coc to your ctd zone, go look at that water, and if that don't ctd, you reload the game after enabling half of what you disabled, and again and again until you ctd again then you know whatever is in mod x, so either you fix whatever, either you get rid of mod x everyone can do that, and that fix anything 100% of the time, even if you have no idea what you are doing (problem with mod x, no more problem without mod x, you have no idea how to make it work? get rid of it, or keep crashing to your heart content)
woodsman30 Posted August 7, 2019 Posted August 7, 2019 To OP I believe you will find frost fall, wet and cold, and bathing do not work well together all three change what water does... hence you will have issues.... not sure why you would use wet and cold with frost fall they are both doing the same thing. Re-think your load order on what you want to do for game play and make the changes other wise it will cont. to CTD.
Heppai Posted August 8, 2019 Author Posted August 8, 2019 Hey guys, I've been away so thank you for the replies. @Gameplayer Thank you for this, it honestly was what I thought the common response would be, to trim down the load order and I'll do this if i continue to have problems. Please don't consider my short response to mean that I won't continuously carefully look through your responses to make sure I rebuild the game right. Thank you again. I also don't know anyone that knows much about scripts, though I myself would love to learn someday. @yatol You're right, I didn't actually have the issue solved, I just went back to a previous save since I wasn't able to figure out what the issue was. I started by looking for any issues that would have started the conflict. I didn't look too hard since the issue was solved by previous save. However, when I went back to a similar river or stream, the issue did not happen again and I figured that my problem was fixed somehow. @Grey Cloud, When I say not much has changed, I mean that I haven't done anything irregular (in game or elsewhere) that would randomly start these conflicts, and that I've been playing this play through for hours without issue. I just downloaded Save Cleaner, though I remember it not working before due to the amount of scripts being too high? Or could this be the wrong mod that I'm thinking of. Regardless, I'll give it another shot. To answer your other question in relation to the BiS and iNeed, at first it crashed while using BiS. More specifically, it crashed AFTER the bathing sequence was used. When I tried to reopen the game, it would just crash once I got into game about four times or so. This occurred while in the actual save game itself as I saved right around the time I wanted to use BiS. One of the last times I crashed, I was just standing near the water or when I walked up it crashed upon walking towards the water. As I mentioned above, I trouble shot around this issue by using a previous save game and that has not triggered the crash since. I might be in the clear for now but I'm sure the issue still exists. Thank you for your detailed response! @woodsman30 I downloaded both of these for some reason through a mod build that was stickied on here a while ago. I didn't really think much about it for some reason. Since then I've just been redownloading and installed the mod. Thanks for the heads up, I'll turn the mod off in-game then delete for future playthoughs. I've played this save game for hours without issue. I have not removed any mods or done any altering besides updating two mods since I began this play through. I'll try some script cleaning.
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