Myst42 Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, yatol said: (,,,) Man, what the actual fuck are you talking about? lmao You seem to be just literally talking nonsense mixed with some rude manners and some bits of truth and unrelated stuff in between. Looks like you're just throwing random statements on a train of thought that doesn't follow any logical progress. Are you trolling or shitposting perhaps? Seriously I have no idea what you're trying to say in your posts. Are you against the idea that stuck dumps are warnings? You claim to know exactly what they are because you have better sources, is that it? And what the hell do helgen cart glitches have to do with stack dump discussion??? Spawning NP... wut? I used Genio's tests, and they have nothing to do with spawning NPCs, they're meant to apply scripts to NPCs, and generate stack dumps. And yeah, I tested the stuff on my own game, and just as predicted, I got craptons of stack dumps with them. The detailed testing experience was a bit longer than that, but suffices to say, I got stack dumps with it, and they completely went away when they were supposed to, after turning the test off. During the overload periods, I also got hellish levels of script lag. Nothing worked in time, and some simple scripts like AdditemMenu took over 5 minutes to work. But again, turning the test off made sure it all stopped and the game returned to normal.
yatol Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Myst42 said: Nothing worked in time, and some simple scripts like AdditemMenu took over 5 minutes to work. But again, turning the test off made sure it all stopped and the game returned to normal. instead of wasting your time in riverwood tavern or whatever, why don't you test during helgen start or a siege? 12 minutes ago, Myst42 said: You claim to know exactly what they are because you have better sources, is that it? better source? even in crap kit site it's bullshit you still don't get it even after my post without technical langage like stack or whatever? stack dump stacks are scripts dump it's dump, unload, remove stack dump -> script unload what do you have after a stack dump? a list of scripts... the scripts that are unload if you think it's safe to allow the game to waste his time dumping useless scripts instead of doing what it is supposed to do... have fun trying your luck 9 minutes ago, Myst42 said: Spawning NP... wut? I used Genio's tests, and they have nothing to do with spawning NPCs, they're meant to apply scripts to NPCs, and generate stack dumps. something that require npc to work have nothing to do with spawing npc? you don't make much sense why would i waste my time with that? that was 3 years ago i had stack dumps, last one i saw that was trying a mod that kill you if you don't equip a torch (nice mess that mod, don't remember what it was) stack dumps during a siege with cwo.... i gave conditions to enhanced blood (health < 75%), to unequip ammo (bow equipped), defeat (health < defeat threesold), and everything else that was load for nothing on those soldiers oh, no stack dump, no more problem, strange if those stack dump are supposed to be "harmless" have no idea how close i am to the maximum allowed number of active scripts, so i look for more useless scripts to kill how to find them? that's the purpose of the stack dump spell that just use onitemadd with 2 coffer (faster and easier to use than that npc thing) with requiem debuff script, you can end up with negative weapon damage or resistances (that was in 2015 or 2016, don't know if that crap is still in the mod) no idea why they need a script to check if you have a debuff before applying it? and it's the script that remove the debuff? active effect debuff, duration x second, that's it (you can get that debuff twice if hit again? then there must be a flag unique or whatever i didn't saw) didn't saw anything strange when i tried breezhome coffers but having screenshotassist and others mods in that dump... why are those mods checking what get in my inventory? they lost their onitemadd dyndolod test was a ctd (thought i finally found a script able to crash the game, but nope) saw some lod xxyyyyyy between dumps, so i took a look in tesedit, then the save since his stuff... nothing in the save? what? oh... it's that the ctd no idea what was put in the save, but the game can't load it so i use dyndolod light (i make lods with the tools, and that's it, leave my lods alone in game)
Myst42 Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, yatol said: instead of wasting your time in riverwood tavern or whatever, why don't you test during helgen start or a siege? You assume i ran tests under "easy" environments, when in fact i did the very worse to stress the game out. You know nothing of what I have done to test stuff. Just now, yatol said: you still don't get it even after my post without technical langage like stack or whatever? I dont have trouble understanding you because of your "super advanced technical language" I have trouble understanding you because your syntax skills are lacking, and your ideas are all over the place and don't follow any logical line. Perhaps you're using google translate to write. I do appreciate this last reply of yours seems slightly more coherent. Just now, yatol said: stack dump stacks are scripts dump it's dump, unload, remove stack dump -> script unload what do you have after a stack dump? a list of scripts... the scripts that are unload If you're talking about the old "stack dumps discard scripts" concept, then I tell you right away that's a filthy lie. The game doesn't discard anything, it puts in in queue line instead. It wants to answer ALL scripts, and that's why stacks happen. If the game simply "threw away" scripts it can't answer in time, we wouldn't have save bloat or delayed scripts. I have tested myself running stuff on moments of stack dump ocurrences, and every script runs, every time, from start to end, even if it gets delayed and needs 5 freaking minutes to complete. All debug log lines are present, and nothing gets discarded, only queued. The problems start when the game starts generating more calls than it can answer in time, because it keeps piling them up to the queue line, and the more calls it gets, the more the pile of delayed calls grows and save bloat grows exponentially. But feel free to believe whatever the hell you want. You're so certain it works otherwise, you could be looking at evidence of the opposite right in your face and you still wouldn't believe it. Just now, yatol said: no stack dump, no more problem, strange if those stack dump are supposed to be "harmless" And you still dont get it do you? If you had problems and stack dumps after the siege ended, then it's because the WORK OVERLOAD was still going on. And that can only be caused by a bug in a mod. Having stack dumps during stressful situations is COMPLETELY NORMAL. Stressful situations can, and will cause stack dumps AND script lag, which delays script processing and makes stuff work slower, sometimes a lot slower, so much you may think the game got stuck, but it's not always so. What is not normal, is that these CONTINUE OVER TIME after the stressful situation ends. Putting filters in stuff, decreases work overload, with decreased overload, comes less delayed scripts, with less delay, come scripts arriving correctly on schedule and getting their functioning right, which in turns decreases the chance for critical bugs. The there is your correlation between stack dumps and critical bugs, but you dont seem to understand one is product of the other, and not the other way around.
yatol Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Myst42 said: The game doesn't discard anything, it puts in in queue line instead. It wants to answer ALL scripts, and that's why stacks happen. If the game simply "threw away" scripts it can't answer in time, we wouldn't have save bloat or delayed scripts. I have tested myself running stuff on moments of stack dump ocurrences, and every script runs, every time, from start to end, even if it gets delayed and needs 5 freaking minutes to complete. did you bother searching that script in your stack dump? 14 hours ago, yatol said: no action is taken at the time, really? thank you captain obvious i would never have guess script a (game is still running during that dump) can't load script b during the dump but does the game wait for the stack dump to be done to load script b? because no script b.... that can be a problem there are timers in game, not loading script b on time, that can also be a problem why would the game dump helgen quest script or another that is doing stuff? game dump the scripts that are done and most of them were load to do nothing enhanced blood script no reason to load enhanced blood on ulrik that isn't in combat, easy to not load it for nothing miningorescript no reason to load miningore if you aren't in cidna (you give ironorecidna to the dozen ore in cidna, then you delete that script from.... hundreds of ores, one for each ground... that one suck) woodendoorscript no way to check when you feel like lockpicking the door, and checking player distance from that door... that look worse than just leaving it alone etc etc even if you believe stack dump are "harmless", you take care of that for performance (not loading useless stuff, it's better than loading it)
Myst42 Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 Just now, yatol said: did you bother searching that script in your stack dump? Yes. Testing this stuff requires checking everything that happens in the log, and testing it with debug lines that keep track of the number of calls and active processes that start and end. I even used some of my mods for it. OnMagicEffectApply event with insuffiecient filter, cast flames on someone long enough to overload the call threshold, get certified stack dump, put count of events received carried from start to end, every event ran, the ones placed in stacks still ran and generated code, some effects were only written a few seconds after the stack dump. I onther words, delayed calls kept functioning for about 10 seconds after the stress of a concentration spell ended. The problem is not the stack dumps, the problem is desynchronization and delay due to work overload. Lots of mods and especially vulnerable mods, bug out in stressful situations and can generate critical bugs, but it's not always so. The game has 2 engines, the game one and papyrus. And they need to be synched to work well. Helgen is a linear thing where the game doesnt get a breather to let scripts catch up. The cart keeps on going no matter what, and it doesnt really wait for scripts. And BTW I got tons of mods installed... I once had a seriously fucked up setting that wouldn't let me start a new game with all the mods, but after I started investigating this stuff, I have been perfectly able to start Helgen just fine. As for the real bugs explanation... I would LOVE to actually know what is the exact cause of critical bugs that actually corrupt the game for real such as the "stuck call loop" bug I mentioned that kept generating irrational OnHit calls on a peaceful situation, but I dont. All I know is I've been seeing stack dumps for a long time and only on specific occasions, they actually mean something serious, and those times, all have in common, that irrational event calls kept getting made out of thin air. Like some SOS, or Dual Sheath Redux effect on player that normally doesnt bother anyone, but if it bugs out it will start generating a faster spam than it should, a faster spam that won't stop, causing overload. That overload, will, in time, get reported in the form of continuous stack dumps.
yatol Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Myst42 said: The problem is not the stack dumps, the problem is desynchronization and delay due to work overload. is that a joke? lawyer : the victim didn't died because my client moved his finger 6 times, she died because she was shoot 6 time, my client is innocent 27 minutes ago, Myst42 said: I would LOVE to actually know what is the exact cause of critical bugs that actually corrupt the game for real such as the "stuck call loop" bug I mentioned that kept generating irrational OnHit calls on a peaceful situation, but I dont. you expect someone to tell you what condition to give to that quest, effect or whatever, without knowing what that mod is doing that stuff? call nostradamus at 11 22 33
Myst42 Posted May 6, 2019 Posted May 6, 2019 49 minutes ago, yatol said: lawyer : the victim didn't died because my client moved his finger 6 times, she died because she was shoot 6 time, my client is innocent Oh gee! the symptoms are to blame for the patient's death, not the disease!! We should blame the syptoms and leave the disease completely ignored that will surely work! 49 minutes ago, yatol said: you expect someone to tell you what condition to give to that quest, effect or whatever, without knowing what that mod is doing that stuff? call nostradamus at 11 22 33 And yeah, this is just stupid Diagnosing the disease is the only way to truly treat a condition, but you prefer to keep blaming the symptom and holding on to your ridiculous concept superstitions instad of actually trying to find causes. With people like these, there is no reasoning that can be held But you don't care about logic do you? You're just a shitposter, doing this this to bait people and get some laughs out of it aren't you?. Not gonna bother with you anymore
Dilios300 Posted November 26, 2019 Posted November 26, 2019 On 5/5/2019 at 1:02 PM, monsta88 said: I'm using it in a game with 237 mods, a lot of them supplementals for the LotD (mods which have items for the museum). A few examples: - Wheels of Lull - The Forgotten City - Grey cowl of Nocturnal - Falskaar - Wyrmstooth - More Interesting loot - Bad Gremlin's collection mods - Fossil mining - Artifacts of Boethiah - Royal Armory - Skyrim Underground - The Mad masker - etc I also have most os SIaions mods installed - Apocalypse - Wildcat - Thunderchild - Sacrosanct - Summermyst And also a lot of LL mods - Sexlab - SOS - DDa, x, i - ZAZ 8+ - PSQ (with Real flying) - Prison overhaul - Naked dungeons - Deviously Enchanted chests - about 9700 anims (according to FNIS) - SL Defeat - S_L_U_T_S - etc I'm over 240 hours in it, about 1200 items collected in the museum. I have a huge savegame (27MB atm), but very rare crashes, I think I had 1 this week. I'd say it is quite stable for the Oldrim. As for the original question: if you like collecting stuff, then this mod is very good for you. If you expected this to be a questmod, then you expected wrong. While it has several quests, a lot of them are tied to the museum progress. It has a very good playerhome with features like autosorting crafting materials, remote material stashing, craftlooting, etc. Also has a nice flying ship, if you are more RP-like and not just fast travel everywhere. Whats your LO look like? Would love to know how your running a setup like that with no issues. My current character is a bit of an intellectual and seems perfect for Legacy.
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