Going Manually & Losing Mod Organizers Altogether

[walkin]

So what I'm curious about is if someone has enough confidence to install their mods themselves (like me lol) can you do that and eliminate the need for any mod organizer whatsoever. I believe if you can I think you can get a way more stable load order doing it yourself. So I'm just curious is this how  it works- if someone knows who does it or has done it before:

 

Grab your mod- put the files where they need to go- sort your load order and enable your plugins in the in game mod menu. Done. Does this work?

 

Edit: As I was typing this I remembered about all the Fomods you come across. I'm guessing this might be a issue? lol

 

[Seijin8]

Strictly, mod organizers aren't necessary *IF* you know what you are doing and can keep meticulous records of what came from where.  The real trouble is if you want to uninstall something or revert to an earlier "version" of your load order where files will stay behind that shouldn't, and some removed files will need to be replaced by other modded files.

 

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but that isn't to say it can't be done.

[walkin]

3 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

Strictly, mod organizers aren't necessary *IF* you know what you are doing and can keep meticulous records of what came from where.  The real trouble is if you want to uninstall something or revert to an earlier "version" of your load order where files will stay behind that shouldn't, and some removed files will need to be replaced by other modded files.

 

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but that isn't to say it can't be done.

Thnk u for the quick response. What about using the mod organizer for installing and uninstalling but shutting it down otherwise and doing your load order in  the in game menu and taking care of disabling and enabling them there also. Only using the mod organizer for what I mentioned.

[Seijin8]

Depends on the mod manager.  With Mod Organizer, that isn't viable.  It might be workable with others though.  Mainly, I just don't see any advantages to doing that, and a hell of a lot of potential pitfalls.

[walkin]

8 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

Depends on the mod manager.  With Mod Organizer, that isn't viable.  It might be workable with others though.  Mainly, I just don't see any advantages to doing that, and a hell of a lot of potential pitfalls.

I hear ya and Im fine with my organizer, I was just curious. If I had tons of problems with my organizer I'd pursue this farther but your right. That's why I liked modding on my xbox. So easy. grab mod enable disable delete. Didn't have to worry about shit left behind, Xbox did it for ya.. Maybe a handful of mods you had to uninstall in a certain way to not mess up your build menu. Other than the obvious ( shit missing etc) you didn't have to deal with anything. I guess it would work good if you never opened any mod organizer and just actually downloaded the mods from the in game menu and no where else. Being that you could find everyone you wanted. Obviously couldn't do any from here I doubt they woiuld come up in a search. Lol. Once again thnx for the input

[Kendo 2]

The only thing I use mod organizers for is load orders for esps/esm.  Also, if the mod is heavily scripted I'll use an installer.  Otherwise what I normally do is extract the mod contents and make my own esp/esm.  That way I know nothing is changed unless I'm the one who changed it.  Since I started doing that my mod conflict issues are nonexistent.

[walkin]

7 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

The only thing I use mod organizers for is load orders for esps/esm.  Also, if the mod is heavily scripted I'll use an installer.  Otherwise what I normally do is extract the mod contents and make my own esp/esm.  That way I know nothing is changed unless I'm the one who changed it.  Since I started doing that my mod conflict issues are nonexistent.

That sounds good also. Thnx

[A.J.]

5 hours ago, walkin said:

So what I'm curious about is if someone has enough confidence to install their mods themselves (like me lol) can you do that and eliminate the need for any mod organizer whatsoever. I believe if you can I think you can get a way more stable load order doing it yourself. So I'm just curious is this how  it works- if someone knows who does it or has done it before:

 

Grab your mod- put the files where they need to go- sort your load order and enable your plugins in the in game mod menu. Done. Does this work?

 

Edit: As I was typing this I remembered about all the Fomods you come across. I'm guessing this might be a issue? lol

 

I did both the things for years. I used FOMM for FO3/NV, MO for Skyrim, MO2 for FO4, but for all the games I made heavy manual installation, copying / removing files in Windows and then modifying plugins.txt file. So far I didn't have much problems for everything but Skyrim, due to the greatest number of mods and overall complexity, with consequent higher chance to make a mistake, for example when reading a FOMOD xml trying to understand which file needs to be installed and where.

 

I don't see why you couldn't do manual installations, but I don't even see a single reason why you shouldn't use a serious mod manager like MO instead. A manual installation doesn't cause downsides per se, but brings potential new sources of mistakes while wouldn't bring anything positive, so there's no real reason to opt for it

[VonHelton]

I manually install all the time without issues. There is a certain program that's buggy as hell, & you'll get jumped for manually installing, but don't worry, even people who DO use MO or NMM have the same problems. They just need to fix their buggy program.

[DoctaSax]

I think only a fraction of mod users can get away with manual installs. If you have to ask if it's doable, you're not part of that fraction yet, and quite a few people who think they can do it, aren't either. (Some of those end up imagining it's some mod's fault rather than their own if they have issues and leave disparaging comments about that mod wherever they can. Tsssk.)

 

Aside from doability, you have to consider desirability. I've often adjusted and repackaged mods to suit my tastes, but always used mod managers to install and keep track of the re-packaged mod (this obviously means I can't allow any auto-update feature). For a thoroughly modded game though, using manual installs only means keeping track of installed assets of everything, so that in case you remove a mod that overwrites another, the other's asset is re-installed. Remembering what goes where is what mod managers like MO are best at, better than any other method involving looking that up manually, or keeping track of it in spreadsheets or whatever. There's really no upside to foreswearing mod managers altogether, other than bragging rights.

[originofdarkness]

7 hours ago, VonHelton said:

I manually install all the time without issues. There is a certain program that's buggy as hell, & you'll get jumped for manually installing, but don't worry, even people who DO use MO or NMM have the same problems. They just need to fix their buggy program.

Funny how it's only you who complains about this, despite you banging on about other people having the same problem yet are nowhere in sight. Also "buggy program", you say that like you're talking about a video game you bought that doesn't work correctly. It's a FREE mod made by someone who has asked for nothing in return and you speak to them so disrespectfully and put down their mod every single chance you get. Get over yourself and grow up.

[WandererZero]

5 minutes ago, originofdarkness said:

Funny how it's only you who complains about this, despite you banging on about other people having the same problem yet are nowhere in sight.

I don't even engage this guy anymore. He's never worth it. I basically try to make sure people get good information about a problem at this point. It's a better use of the time/energy. 

 

7 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

I think only a fraction of mod users can get away with manual installs.

⏫  This. 

 

I couldn't imagine life without a mod manager. What I will say is, MO2 really provides a solid feature set that, when configured properly...can give you the "manual install" feel without a lot of the headaches. 

[walkin]

12 hours ago, A.J. said:

I did both the things for years. I used FOMM for FO3/NV, MO for Skyrim, MO2 for FO4, but for all the games I made heavy manual installation, copying / removing files in Windows and then modifying plugins.txt file. So far I didn't have much problems for everything but Skyrim, due to the greatest number of mods and overall complexity, with consequent higher chance to make a mistake, for example when reading a FOMOD xml trying to understand which file needs to be installed and where.

 

I don't see why you couldn't do manual installations, but I don't even see a single reason why you shouldn't use a serious mod manager like MO instead. A manual installation doesn't cause downsides per se, but brings potential new sources of mistakes while wouldn't bring anything positive, so there's no real reason to opt for it

Thnx for the info. I don't have a problem with the mod managers, I was basically just curious if many did it. I knew before I even asked that uninstalling them would probably be way more a pain in the ass then installing them. Like I said I don't have any plans on not using my mod manager I just wanted to know for more info I guess you could say. lol

8 hours ago, VonHelton said:

I manually install all the time without issues. There is a certain program that's buggy as hell, & you'll get jumped for manually installing, but don't worry, even people who DO use MO or NMM have the same problems. They just need to fix their buggy program.

I'm not sure what ur talking about a program being buggy as hell or that they need to fix it. That isn't even a conversation were having here. If youre talking about AAF and mods like that, well yeah of course there are gonna be some bugs. Fallout 4 wasn't made with the intention of your character walkin down the street and then looking over at Sturgis and saying hey can you bend me over. I mean seriously. Lol. I do see what originofdarkness is saying , that its not cool bashing someones mod cause it doesn't work 100%. Anyways Im not getting into that , none of my business. Id say thnx for the info but like a lot of other posts where Ive seen your comments you really didn't help in anyway, all you did was leave a useless comment. So, see yaa, I guess?  

1 hour ago, DoctaSax said:

I think only a fraction of mod users can get away with manual installs. If you have to ask if it's doable, you're not part of that fraction yet, and quite a few people who think they can do it, aren't either. (Some of those end up imagining it's some mod's fault rather than their own if they have issues and leave disparaging comments about that mod wherever they can. Tsssk.)

 

Aside from doability, you have to consider desirability. I've often adjusted and repackaged mods to suit my tastes, but always used mod managers to install and keep track of the re-packaged mod (this obviously means I can't allow any auto-update feature). For a thoroughly modded game though, using manual installs only means keeping track of installed assets of everything, so that in case you remove a mod that overwrites another, the other's asset is re-installed. Remembering what goes where is what mod managers like MO are best at, better than any other method involving looking that up manually, or keeping track of it in spreadsheets or whatever. There's really no upside to foreswearing mod managers altogether, other than bragging rights.

Thnx for the info. Yeah I hear what everybody is saying. Whats the point. I do think though that someone that was really green at modding and only wanted basic mods (no sex mods) would have a way easier time if they just downloaded and enabled their mods through the in game menu like people do on the xbox. Not downloading anything from web sites, just letting the game take care of it. The thing is I don't know if the in game mod menu for the pc would have the same features that the Xbox does. This isn't important anyways just another thing I was thinking and curious about.

53 minutes ago, WandererZero said:

I don't even engage this guy anymore. He's never worth it. I basically try to make sure people get good information about a problem at this point. It's a better use of the time/energy. 

 

⏫  This. 

 

I couldn't imagine life without a mod manager. What I will say is, MO2 really provides a solid feature set that, when configured properly...can give you the "manual install" feel without a lot of the headaches. 

Lol. Me either most likely. I don't think I had one back in the day when I was modding GTA3. But I also don't think a lot of those mods were as script heavy or technical as some of the ones we have today. Most of them ones I remember were visual, like changing a base car to look like a 69 Camaro. shit like that. Lol

[ferrousae]

17 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

The only thing I use mod organizers for is load orders for esps/esm.  Also, if the mod is heavily scripted I'll use an installer.  Otherwise what I normally do is extract the mod contents and make my own esp/esm.  That way I know nothing is changed unless I'm the one who changed it.  Since I started doing that my mod conflict issues are nonexistent.

wait, how do you do that?

[VonHelton]

1 hour ago, walkin said:

Lol. Me either most likely. I don't think I had one back in the day when I was modding GTA3. But I also don't think a lot of those mods were as script heavy or technical as some of the ones we have today. Most of them ones I remember were visual, like changing a base car to look like a 69 Camaro. shit like that. Lol

Origin of Darkness & Wander Zero came here from YouTube. They are haters of mine, and are here only to start shit. Show me one post from either of them where they've actually contributed to Fallout 4.......I'll wait.

 

I NEVER use a mod manager, and I never have any problems. The ONLY time I have a problem is when the program in question is buggy.

 

As for my modding cred, you can check THIS out. Note the date of the posts.

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30404

 

https://www.gog.com/forum/red_baron_pack/revenge_of_the_jastas_alternate_download_location

 

As for my Fallout 4 mods, I chose not to publish them, but here's a taste........

 

 

Greentop Nursery Skin Fix.esp

VHBoSUnderArmorFix.esp

WindmillFix.esp

 

Now let's see if you're man enough to apologize........

 

?

 

 

[WandererZero]

1 hour ago, walkin said:

Lol. Me either most likely. I don't think I had one back in the day when I was modding GTA3. But I also don't think a lot of those mods were as script heavy or technical as some of the ones we have today. Most of them ones I remember were visual, like changing a base car to look like a 69 Camaro. shit like that. Lol

I used to mod GTA3/VC a lot...and no, you didn't really need Mod Management for some of those. There are still games where mod management is completely optional (like Sims 4). 

 

Fallout 4 however, because of the nature of overwrites, and because you can bork things up quick if you're not paying attention to detail...almost requires some method of mod management unless you're really clued, and keep track of things precisely. It's not just scripts, it's everything really. If we were just dropping .esms in and that was it, it would be one thing. But Bethesda games, and especially modded bethesda games can get complicated install lands really quickly. 

 

I've been describing MO2 as "github for modding", and in many ways it really truly is. Rolling back and forth using backups, etc is trivial...you're given tons of options not just for what you want to install, but how. If you're willing to swallow the small learning curve...it's very powerful and intuitive. 

[WandererZero]

1 hour ago, ferrousae said:

wait, how do you do that?

I've had to do this from time to time. All I do is unzip the mod, grab the pieces, create the directory structure MO2 expects/needed (data/whatever/etc), etc...zip it, go into MO2, hit the install button and open the new zipped file. 

[walkin]

23 minutes ago, WandererZero said:

I used to mod GTA3/VC a lot...and no, you didn't really need Mod Management for some of those. There are still games where mod management is completely optional (like Sims 4). 

 

Fallout 4 however, because of the nature of overwrites, and because you can bork things up quick if you're not paying attention to detail...almost requires some method of mod management unless you're really clued, and keep track of things precisely. It's not just scripts, it's everything really. If we were just dropping .esms in and that was it, it would be one thing. But Bethesda games, and especially modded bethesda games can get complicated install lands really quickly. 

 

I've been describing MO2 as "github for modding", and in many ways it really truly is. Rolling back and forth using backups, etc is trivial...you're given tons of options not just for what you want to install, but how. If you're willing to swallow the small learning curve...it's very powerful and intuitive. 

I learn shit pretty quick, I might give it a look at some point. I'm not playing right now. I'm doing Railway Empire and Hitman 2 right now. I just read some forums and check things out to learn more.

[WandererZero]

5 minutes ago, walkin said:

I learn shit pretty quick, I might give it a look at some point.

I recently converted to MO2 from NMM. While my NMM install was stable, the writing is on the wall with NMM, and so I jumped in and never looked back. Something else I discovered is that MO2 looks scarier than it is to some. If you can pick up basic stuff quick, I would definitely give it a look. 

 

You seem a pretty clued fellow, so it should be a breeze for you to use. The virtualization is nice, and it's stable and fast. You'll also find help tends to be more readily available to people using mod management, as it cuts out a lot of the low level, mundane troubleshooting you'd have to do otherwise. That's not to say people who run manual game base installs aren't helped with issues...just that expedience tends to favor those with a baseline install based on current best practices with modding these games. 

 

Cheers mate! 

?

[walkin]

33 minutes ago, VonHelton said:

Origin of Darkness & Wander Zero came here from YouTube. They are haters of mine, and are here only to start shit. Show me one post from either of them where they've actually contributed to Fallout 4.......I'll wait.

 

I NEVER use a mod manager, and I never have any problems. The ONLY time I have a problem is when the program in question is buggy.

 

As for my modding cred, you can check THIS out. Note the date of the posts.

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30404

 

https://www.gog.com/forum/red_baron_pack/revenge_of_the_jastas_alternate_download_location

 

As for my Fallout 4 mods, I chose not to publish them, but here's a taste........

 

 

Greentop Nursery Skin Fix.esp

VHBoSUnderArmorFix.esp

WindmillFix.esp

 

Now let's see if you're man enough to apologize........

 

?

 

 

LOL Once again I have no idea what the fuck u r talking about and once again like I responded in my answer for you earlier this doesn't have anything to do with this topic I asked about and what we were talking about. I said in my earlier post that you didn't have anything helpful to say pertaining to this post, that all you did was make a comment that you do it. How does that help anybody out that you do it. That was my point. And now here you are doing it again with this shit. Why would I apologize? I didn't do anything but state a fact and why the hell would I care about all this shit you've added here. Whats this have to do with anything I said. I could care less about your "modding cred" as you put it or who hates you or who doesn't. I didn't ask for proof of any of this shit and have no clue why you quoted it to me. Maybe you should mass post it to the people you say are hating on you if you have something you want to prove or show someone, but as far as I go, I could care less who the fuck you are what you do or don't do so posting it to me is a waste of time. For me this conversation with you is over. If you want to post something helpful for somebody having a problem I'd be glad to read it and converse but for bitching sessions and shit like this you got the wrong guy. 

[walkin]

12 minutes ago, WandererZero said:

I recently converted to MO2 from NMM. While my NMM install was stable, the writing is on the wall with NMM, and so I jumped in and never looked back. Something else I discovered is that MO2 looks scarier than it is to some. If you can pick up basic stuff quick, I would definitely give it a look. 

 

You seem a pretty clued fellow, so it should be a breeze for you to use. The virtualization is nice, and it's stable and fast. You'll also find help tends to be more readily available to people using mod management, as it cuts out a lot of the low level, mundane troubleshooting you'd have to do otherwise. That's not to say people who run manual game base installs aren't helped with issues...just that expedience tends to favor those with a baseline install based on current best practices with modding these games. 

 

Cheers mate! 

?

Cool thnx. All yeah I'd figure it out I don't have worries about that. Lol. I'm  just stubborn learning new things. I never made my way to Nexus or here for Fallout 4 to like November so when I went to Nexus for the first time I grabbed the first thing I saw which was Vortex. A lot of people complain about it but for me now that I know how to use it I like it. Its been teaching me what mods it likes and which ones its gonna fuck me with, so Ive learnt what I have to do. Lol But I will take the time next time I get bored and want to pimp out Nora to give it a try. 

[VonHelton]

9 minutes ago, walkin said:

LOL Once again I have no idea what the fuck u r talking about and once again like I responded in my answer for you earlier this doesn't have anything to do with this topic I asked about and what we were talking about. I said in my earlier post that you didn't have anything helpful to say pertaining to this post, that all you did was make a comment that you do it. How does that help anybody out that you do it. That was my point. And now here you are doing it again with this shit. Why would I apologize? I didn't do anything but state a fact and why the hell would I care about all this shit you've added here. Whats this have to do with anything I said. I could care less about your "modding cred" as you put it or who hates you or who doesn't. I didn't ask for proof of any of this shit and have no clue why you quoted it to me. Maybe you should mass post it to the people you say are hating on you if you have something you want to prove or show someone, but as far as I go, I could care less who the fuck you are what you do or don't do so posting it to me is a waste of time. For me this conversation with you is over. If you want to post something helpful for somebody having a problem I'd be glad to read it and converse but for bitching sessions and shit like this you got the wrong guy. 

You seemed pretty convinced that the YouTube trolls were right & I was wrong. And it was YOU that brought up your prior modding on GTA, not me. You are also a horrible liar, since anyone can see that the thread is about whether people use mod managers or not, and I clearly do not, so my posting here is not only valid, but critical to anyone who wants to manually install. Finally, you admit you don't even PLAY Fallout 4 (thanks for that), so as Piper would say, I'm wondering what your angle here REALLY is......

 

?

[ferrousae]

On 2/17/2019 at 3:25 PM, WandererZero said:

I've had to do this from time to time. All I do is unzip the mod, grab the pieces, create the directory structure MO2 expects/needed (data/whatever/etc), etc...zip it, go into MO2, hit the install button and open the new zipped file. 

so if there's no .esp in the zip file... it creates one?

I get extracting and re-zipping the pieces, just not clear on how you generate a new .esp, also since most mods contain record changes in their .esps?

(of course I'm still at least moderately ignorant on this, corrections appreciated)