Replacing Bijin Textures

[Qronnos]

I'm a little confused as to why the textures I replace the default Bijin overhaul's body and face texture with, do some weird things - face textures in particular, and I've done the same procedure for other  As an example I used optimized fair skin complexion and demoniac 8k fair skin mashup texture. The body and hands are fine, but the face becomes rounded and looks like it loses the set face profile (around the cheekbones), in other words, characters become chibi faced. But the default textures supplied by the mods are fine. I've tried many things but to no avail. If anyone has any idea, any help will be appreciated. 

[onesumgame]

56 minutes ago, .manuscript said:

I'm a little confused as to why the textures I replace the default Bijin overhaul's body and face texture with, do some weird things - face textures in particular, and I've done the same procedure for other  As an example I used optimized fair skin complexion and demoniac 8k fair skin mashup texture. The body and hands are fine, but the face becomes rounded and looks like it loses the set face profile (around the cheekbones), in other words, characters become chibi faced. But the default textures supplied by the mods are fine. I've tried many things but to no avail. If anyone has any idea, any help will be appreciated. 

You may want to check the Nexus forum to confirm this, but as far as I know there is no way to replace the textures without changing the actor's appearance.

[Qronnos]

18 minutes ago, onesumgame said:

You may want to check the Nexus forum to confirm this, but as far as I know there is no way to replace the textures without changing the actor's appearance.

Hmm. I've tried generating new facegen with the new textures and I would get a potato headed npc (as in oval head with a brownish face tint) even when unticking every mod in MO. I guess that there's no way of applying different texture before morphing/sculpting new profile with the said texture enabled. 

[allsunday]

Lmao.  The hell did you guys do?  I replace the face textures on Bijin mods all the time, never had any chibi face happen to me.  The mesh doesn't magically change whenever you change the texture.  Skyrim has never done this to me ever.  You're changing the textures manually, right?  

Which Bijin NPC are you trying to customize?

 

[Qronnos]

7 hours ago, allsunday said:

Lmao.  The hell did you guys do?  I replace the face textures on Bijin mods all the time, never had any chibi face happen to me.  The mesh doesn't magically change whenever you change the texture.  Skyrim has never done this to me ever.  You're changing the textures manually, right?  

Which Bijin NPC are you trying to customize?

 

I think it was alright maybe 2 years ago when I did it. I decided to comeback and try out the demoniac. I used fair skin before. 

 

1. Yeah I changed them manually in all corresponding folders with corresponding files. 

2. All of them including Serana and Valerica. 

 

On the other thought. Do you use any of the KZ style npc overhauls? Or female  facial animation mods?

I actually feel like some .tri file is messing something up. Although, Ultimate NPC overhaul 2 npc faces are just as they should be, and such thing only happens to npc/ follower mods with their own textures.

 

I've also tried disabling all mods completely except the bijin with replaced textures. Yet same result.

[SleepyJim]

I have to admit, I can't see how swapping only the textures could change the shape of the face. The normal maps can determine how smooth the face looks, and that's why elves and orcs have all their bumps and ridges, but the rest of the textures shouldn't alter shape at all.

 

I've replaced the textures for all custom female npcs I've got - including the Bijin, Toccata as Elisif, and Seranaholic mods - with the same textures I use for everyone else. In every case their skin textures change and their faces remain exactly the same shape as they were designed. That's with no face gen data exports or anything that touches the face meshes at all. I do use the female facial animation mod (although I notice it's been updated since I downloaded it) but as far as I understand it when there aren't any animated expressions or talking going on that shouldn't change anything either.

 

You are only replacing textures and not meshes when it comes to the faces?

[Qronnos]

43 minutes ago, SleepyJim said:

I have to admit, I can't see how swapping only the textures could change the shape of the face. The normal maps can determine how smooth the face looks, and that's why elves and orcs have all their bumps and ridges, but the rest of the textures shouldn't alter shape at all.

 

I've replaced the textures for all custom female npcs I've got - including the Bijin, Toccata as Elisif, and Seranaholic mods - with the same textures I use for everyone else. In every case their skin textures change and their faces remain exactly the same shape as they were designed. That's with no face gen data exports or anything that touches the face meshes at all. I do use the female facial animation mod (although I notice it's been updated since I downloaded it) but as far as I understand it when there aren't any animated expressions or talking going on that shouldn't change anything either.

 

You are only replacing textures and not meshes when it comes to the faces?

Only the face, body, and hands textures. The only meshes I changed were the hands, feet and body. And no mesh touches the head on the global scale, yet this type of thing happened. Could the texture itself be faulty? (highly unlikely though because I've tried fair skin which worked before and demoniac fair skin). But the other thing that I'm speculating is the game is skipping over the proper nif file because the custom race I'm using has similar results in face texture. 

[SleepyJim]

Hmm. That's really strange. Especially as you said it still happens with all other mods disabled. I suppose it would be best to double check that the problem still occurs with different textures, but if it does I'm at a loss to think of anything that could cause it.

 

I also replace the body, hands and feet meshes, then all the textures, so all Bijin women use exactly what I have installed generally for everyone else, but I don't get the problems you're reporting. For the record, I use an old version of mature skin diffuse textures, SG normal maps for everything but the body (for which I use a map I made myself with the Famous mod on nexus for some muscle) and fair skin specular and subsurface maps.

[onesumgame]

1 hour ago, .manuscript said:

Only the face, body, and hands textures. The only meshes I changed were the hands, feet and body. And no mesh touches the head on the global scale, yet this type of thing happened. Could the texture itself be faulty? (highly unlikely though because I've tried fair skin which worked before and demoniac fair skin). But the other thing that I'm speculating is the game is skipping over the proper nif file because the custom race I'm using has similar results in face texture. 

Can you provide a screenshot of one of the npcs with replaced textures?

[Qronnos]

1 hour ago, onesumgame said:

Can you provide a screenshot of one of the npcs with replaced textures?

 Carlotta looks the worst of all (imho ). Their cheekbones are all similar (as in rounded) and lost their profile. Some have extreme change like Carlotta, some look like intended but with a bit rounded profile.

 

 

 

 [\spoiler] 

[onesumgame]

25 minutes ago, .manuscript said:

 Carlotta looks the worst of all (imho ). Their cheekbones are all similar (as in rounded) and lost their profile. Some have extreme change like Carlotta, some look like intended but with a bit rounded profile.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 [\spoiler] 

Yup that's what I expected to see. Now if only some of the people who commented in this thread would provide screenshots as well. I suspect that their npcs do NOT look identical to the originals, contrary to their claims.

[Qronnos]

7 minutes ago, onesumgame said:

Yup that's what I expected to see. Now if only some of the people who commented in this thread would provide screenshots as well. I suspect that their npcs do NOT look identical to the originals, contrary to their claims.

I mean, last time when I really played with custom textures on those npcs, they looked normal, or at least not that noticeable as i remember. Many factors can affect how people see their characters, from lighting to enb of choice, to certain mods like face to face conversation - which gives you the full view of the face. 

[onesumgame]

2 hours ago, .manuscript said:

I mean, last time when I really played with custom textures on those npcs, they looked normal, or at least not that noticeable as i remember. Many factors can affect how people see their characters, from lighting to enb of choice, to certain mods like face to face conversation - which gives you the full view of the face. 

Ask for screenshots.

[SleepyJim]

Sure, I don't mind posting a couple of screenshots. Just snapped a few of Carlotta, Ysolda, and Lydia (version 2.7.) Sadly, only Ysolda smiled for the camera.

 

I might be missing something, but I don't see any difference in shape between what's in my game and what's in the Bijin mods' official images. Certainly not anything I've ever noticed before, or can notice after spending a few minutes comparing them this morning. It's not the same angle of Carlotta's face in my shot, but it should be enough to show that she doesn't have that odd hamster cheek look.

 

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

Spoiler

 

[allsunday]

17 hours ago, .manuscript said:

I think it was alright maybe 2 years ago when I did it. I decided to comeback and try out the demoniac. I used fair skin before. 

 

1. Yeah I changed them manually in all corresponding folders with corresponding files. 

2. All of them including Serana and Valerica. 

 

On the other thought. Do you use any of the KZ style npc overhauls? Or female  facial animation mods?

I actually feel like some .tri file is messing something up. Although, Ultimate NPC overhaul 2 npc faces are just as they should be, and such thing only happens to npc/ follower mods with their own textures.

 

I've also tried disabling all mods completely except the bijin with replaced textures. Yet same result.

I don't use any KZ style NPC overhauls, whatever that is.  But I do use a female face animation mod like Female Facial Animation.  Anyway, I just looked at your picture of Carlotta and what you're seeing is the magic of makeup.  It's not that it turns the face chibi or the cheeks actually get fatter, the mesh actually does not change (of course) but the makeup makes it look like it does.  It's all in the makeup. 

Demoniac makeup is designed for heart shaped faces which Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese prefer.  You can tell this just by looking at the pictures posted on Demoniac's mod page.  You'll get the same exact effect with Fair Skin textures, just look at the girls on Fair Skin's mod page.  You might want to try Mature Skin Texture for something more MILF and less cutey patootey.
Personally, I prefer the original face textures that rxkx22 uses for all of his Bijin girls but the only bad thing is that his textures are so LOW resolution it kind of shows up a bit on a high resolution monitor.  Anyway, what I've done is mixed and match some of the face textures, Mjoll, Jordis, Adelaisa, and Vex seem to have very unique face textures and placing them on other girls results in some interesting but good results... especially on followers from other mods.  Pictures omitted because I'm too damned tired.  Keep experimenting for what looks best to you.

 

[Qronnos]

10 hours ago, SleepyJim said:

Sure, I don't mind posting a couple of screenshots. Just snapped a few of Carlotta, Ysolda, and Lydia (version 2.7.) Sadly, only Ysolda smiled for the camera.

 

I might be missing something, but I don't see any difference in shape between what's in my game and what's in the Bijin mods' official images. Certainly not anything I've ever noticed before, or can notice after spending a few minutes comparing them this morning. It's not the same angle of Carlotta's face in my shot, but it should be enough to show that she doesn't have that odd hamster cheek look.

 

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yeah they look fine compared to the ones I have lol.

 

9 hours ago, allsunday said:

I don't use any KZ style NPC overhauls, whatever that is.  But I do use a female face animation mod like Female Facial Animation.  Anyway, I just looked at your picture of Carlotta and what you're seeing is the magic of makeup.  It's not that it turns the face chibi or the cheeks actually get fatter, the mesh actually does not change (of course) but the makeup makes it look like it does.  It's all in the makeup. 

Demoniac makeup is designed for heart shaped faces which Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese prefer.  You can tell this just by looking at the pictures posted on Demoniac's mod page.  You'll get the same exact effect with Fair Skin textures, just look at the girls on Fair Skin's mod page.  You might want to try Mature Skin Texture for something more MILF and less cutey patootey.
Personally, I prefer the original face textures that rxkx22 uses for all of his Bijin girls but the only bad thing is that his textures are so LOW resolution it kind of shows up a bit on a high resolution monitor.  Anyway, what I've done is mixed and match some of the face textures, Mjoll, Jordis, Adelaisa, and Vex seem to have very unique face textures and placing them on other girls results in some interesting but good results... especially on followers from other mods.  Pictures omitted because I'm too damned tired.  Keep experimenting for what looks best to you.

 

    Ok. This actually makes more sense rather than broken normal maps (if and somehow). And I do agree that the original textures look amazing and more in place, but just like you said the resolution of them is pretty low on the high res monitor. Even the hi-res optional files that rxkx22 included are pretty low I think. I'll have to try out other textures (specifically those rxkx22 used) and see. Thanks for pointing that out it seems obvious af now, but was not for me earlier for some reason lol.

    But the question is now, I wonder why the regular npc (not bijin not custom followers etc) retain "normal" profiling. Might be a stupid question, I know nothing of how things work in this game, how did you manage to combine bits and pieces of different textures without getting body/head mismatch? I've seen posts like "using different textures for body parts results in discoloration" etc.

[allsunday]

22 minutes ago, .manuscript said:

Yeah they look fine compared to the ones I have lol.

 

    Ok. This actually makes more sense rather than broken normal maps (if and somehow). And I do agree that the original textures look amazing and more in place, but just like you said the resolution of them is pretty low on the high res monitor. Even the hi-res optional files that rxkx22 included are pretty low I think. I'll have to try out other textures (specifically those rxkx22 used) and see. Thanks for pointing that out it seems obvious af now, but was not for me earlier for some reason lol.

    But the question is now, I wonder why the regular npc (not bijin not custom followers etc) retain "normal" profiling. Might be a stupid question, I know nothing of how things work in this game, how did you manage to combine bits and pieces of different textures without getting body/head mismatch? I've seen posts like "using different textures for body parts results in discoloration" etc.

Yeah, I can't explain the "normal" profiling thing, maybe it's the size of the texture that causes some sort of constraint or some unexplainable mystery.  Maybe it has something to do with the alpha channel or the mipmaps of the textures or some other mumble jumble, I never understood any of this stuff because everyone who's ever tried to explain this was terrible with English.  Anyway, what I do to eliminate head and body mismatches is to use the photo editing tool GIMP.  I'm an ok artist so I do that sort of stuff on the side.  Another way to make sure you don't get body/head mismatch for the Bijin ladies is to check out my guide here:  

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93482-how-do-i-customize-each-individual-bijin-character/

 

[Qronnos]

46 minutes ago, allsunday said:

Yeah, I can't explain the "normal" profiling thing, maybe it's the size of the texture that causes some sort of constraint or some unexplainable mystery.  Maybe it has something to do with the alpha channel or the mipmaps of the textures or some other mumble jumble, I never understood any of this stuff because everyone who's ever tried to explain this was terrible with English.  Anyway, what I do to eliminate head and body mismatches is to use the photo editing tool GIMP.  I'm an ok artist so I do that sort of stuff on the side.  Another way to make sure you don't get body/head mismatch for the Bijin ladies is to check out my guide here:  

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/93482-how-do-i-customize-each-individual-bijin-character/

 

Oh ok. So just basic path swap. Thanks for the replies, much appreciated!