SE Compatibility Tracking (Apr 23)

[Pfiffy]

6 hours ago, linemore said:

Hi guys, I have been trying to run CF with MNC, got the files that Pfiffy uploaded and put MNC.esp directly under CreatureFramework.esm.  I then loaded the game after installing, ran the SL debug spell and got the "ERR unserialize form..." messages.  Finding out that it was not working for me despite having everything almost the same as some of you, the only other thing I thought it could be was the Survival Mode dlc mentioned a few pages back. 

 

After I moved the ccqdrsse001-survivalmode.bsa and ccqdrsse001-survivalmode.esl out of my load order, I tried the spell again, and this time it worked, got the "OK - serialize" messages and CF is able to read the meshes.  Also, I am running JC 4.0.1 and all seems fine, seems the problem was the Survival Mode files.  After you register the JSONs with CF and save, you can place back the Survival mode files and they still work, CF still loads the aroused meshes and everything. 

good to know... Thaks for the Info.

[Pfiffy]

6 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

i'm beginning to wonder if there is a half assed copy of JContainers hiding inside that "DLC" somewhere.

Did someone try to take a look at the .BSA?

I also wonder, if there are any other Creation Club dlc's that wreck free mods.... 

[tasairis]

1 hour ago, Pfiffy said:

Did someone try to take a look at the .BSA?

I also wonder, if there are any other Creation Club dlc's that wreck free mods.... 

I am curious what is in the mod. I mean, I know it's form changes and assorted scripts, but I also know that it has something more than that.

 

I wish I could ask someone to send me a copy of it but obviously asking for a copy of a paid mod would be Piracy and A Bad Thing To Do. But I don't want to buy credits so I can get the mod (I don't want to play with a survival mode) and then have those credits sitting around in an account not doing anything because I don't care about mudcrabs in hats or really any of these other microtransaction-quality mods that I could get (or even make) for free.

Ah, but this isn't the place to rant about Creation Club.

 

But at least it seems like we're making progress: Survival Mode really appears to be related to this. Does anyone have any other ESL mods lying around they could try out? Maybe it's not Survival Mode itself but something to do with the engine changes that support ESL mods (which, to anyone unaware and wondering, do not work like regular ESP/ESM mods).

 

Also, @linemore and anyone else, please use the most recent debug spell from March 11th. sslEffectDebug.pex

It does a couple more tests than the original to try to understand more about exactly what isn't working; as far as I know GetFormFromFile works (OK) but GetForm/GetFormEx do not (ERR), which suggests the problem is in Skyrim itself and not JContainers.

[DoubleTrouble999]

20 minutes ago, tasairis said:

I am curious what is in the mod. I mean, I know it's form changes and assorted scripts, but I also know that it has something more than that.

 

I wish I could ask someone to send me a copy of it but obviously asking for a copy of a paid mod would be Piracy and A Bad Thing To Do. But I don't want to buy credits so I can get the mod (I don't want to play with a survival mode) and then have those credits sitting around in an account not doing anything because I don't care about mudcrabs in hats or really any of these other microtransaction-quality mods that I could get (or even make) for free.

Ah, but this isn't the place to rant about Creation Club.

 

But at least it seems like we're making progress: Survival Mode really appears to be related to this. Does anyone have any other ESL mods lying around they could try out? Maybe it's not Survival Mode itself but something to do with the engine changes that support ESL mods (which, to anyone unaware and wondering, do not work like regular ESP/ESM mods).

 

Also, @linemore and anyone else, please use the most recent debug spell from March 11th. sslEffectDebug.pex

It does a couple more tests than the original to try to understand more about exactly what isn't working; as far as I know GetFormFromFile works (OK) but GetForm/GetFormEx do not (ERR), which suggests the problem is in Skyrim itself and not JContainers.

 

Guys from the SOS SE thread had problem with co-saves possibly related to ESLs. Is it possible that similar problem exist in CF as well?

 

Here is the post from that thread where they started that discussion:

 

 

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:15 PM, pugwash99 said:

Ok, disabled all the other mods, left the unofficial patch in though. 

 

Started a new game, got through the cart scene then just as I was getting out of the cart - ctd. skse saved but not the skyrim one. The sos level 5 log file is showing corruption in the mod names.

 

During every save it checks the name of mods by looking them up in the index of 0 - 255. It would be better to use the call that returns the actual number of mods loaded. I'll check the code tomorrow night.

 

I'm wondering if it's because I do have so many mods loaded that's allowing the code to work.

 

edit:  sod it, made the change so that it looks up the number of currently loaded mods and only get's the names of those.

 

This time, loading the clean save - no ctd and no corruption in the log file.  The LoadModInfo routine now looks like this.

 

void LoadModInfo()
	{
		_VMESSAGE("\nloading mod info");
		DataHandler * data = DataHandler::GetSingleton();
		UInt8 modCount = data->modList.loadedMods.count;
		
		for (int i = 0; i < 256; i++) {
			CurrentMods[i] = "";
		}

		for (int i = 0; i < modCount; i++){
			const char * name;
			if (data->modList.loadedMods[i]){
				name = data->modList.loadedMods[i]->name;
				_DMESSAGE("  %02X (%03i): %s", i, i, name);
			}
			else{
				name = "";
			}
			CurrentMods[i] = name;
		}

	}

 

SchlongsOfSkyrim 2018-03-14.rar

SchlongsOfSkyrim.log

 

[MadMansGun]

38 minutes ago, tasairis said:

I wish I could ask someone to send me a copy of it but obviously asking for a copy of a paid mod would be Piracy and A Bad Thing To Do. But I don't want to buy credits so I can get the mod (I don't want to play with a survival mode) and then have those credits sitting around in an account not doing anything because I don't care about mudcrabs in hats or really any of these other microtransaction-quality mods that I could get (or even make) for free.

Ah, but this isn't the place to rant about Creation Club.

for what it's worth it's stupidly easy to find online...but none of the tools i have can open it's bsa (and the updated versions of said tools wont even start on my computer, not even the one for FO3.....i wonder if i can get them to run in Linux?)

[tasairis]

48 minutes ago, DoubleTrouble999 said:

Guys from the SOS SE thread had problem with co-saves possibly related to ESLs. Is it possible that similar problem exist in CF as well?

I don't know what the original source was, but my guess is that the CTD was due to attempting to read mod information beyond the range of actual mods loaded. That shouldn't be related to this problem.

 

Setting aside the debug spell for a second,

 

CreatureFramework is using JContainers to read the various creatures.d JSON files. Those files contain special values that look like "__formData|ModName.esp|0x123456", which JContainers recognizes to indicate a particular form. In this case it's the xx123456 form located in ModName.esp. JContainers will then look up the load order of ModName.esp, calculate the true form ID accordingly, then call the game's GetForm function - same as the Game.GetForm Papyrus function.

 

Having read through the JC code multiple times, I don't see any bugs with anything it's doing: recognizing the special JSON value, looking up load order, or calculating the form ID. That should all be good. It would be nice if it used GetFormFromFile instead, being a function suited literally for this sort of purpose, but it isn't that it ((hmm, I wonder...)) that it has to use it. GetForm should be perfectly good to use (and the issue with load orders >7F does not happen here).

 

Now it gets more interesting when you factor in what the debug spell does.

 

It does a few things, but the most relevant part is that it tries out the GetForm, GetFormEx, GetFormFromFile, and GetModByName Papyrus functions. All Papyrus, no special DLL code involved - besides SKSE for GetFormEx and GetModByName. GetModByName works (it's able to locate ModName.esp), GetFormFromFile works (Skyrim function to load a form from a file), but GetForm and GetFormEx do not work.

Native Papyrus functions are unable to load the form.

 

But before I go on about all that, I need to ask someone an important question:

[tasairis]

On 3/13/2018 at 4:09 PM, GirlPower said:

Standing in the starting room i fired the Sexlab debug spell and still got OK on the GetFormFromFile and GetModByName=8, but ERR on GetForm and GetFormEx. MNC was just below CF in the load order.

Was MoreNastyCritters.esp at position 08 in your load order? If you're not sure, can you please try again?

 

And do you have any Creation Club mods installed?

[Pfiffy]

27 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

for what it's worth it's stupidly easy to find online...but none of the tools i have can open it's bsa (and the updated versions of said tools wont even start on my computer, not even the one for FO3.....i wonder if i can get them to run in Linux?)

I think, the ppl at Bethesda know what they have done....And they did take care that we will not find out too soon.

For the moment it seem like it is only survival mode that makes trouble. We need more feedback. In the meantime I have something different: 

 

This error comes from Estrus chaurus....

[DoubleTrouble999]

21 minutes ago, tasairis said:

I don't know what the original source was, but my guess is that the CTD was due to attempting to read mod information beyond the range of actual mods loaded. That shouldn't be related to this problem.

 

Setting aside the debug spell for a second,

 

CreatureFramework is using JContainers to read the various creatures.d JSON files. Those files contain special values that look like "__formData|ModName.esp|0x123456", which JContainers recognizes to indicate a particular form. In this case it's the xx123456 form located in ModName.esp. JContainers will then look up the load order of ModName.esp, calculate the true form ID accordingly, then call the game's GetForm function - same as the Game.GetForm Papyrus function.

 

Having read through the JC code multiple times, I don't see any bugs with anything it's doing: recognizing the special JSON value, looking up load order, or calculating the form ID. That should all be good. It would be nice if it used GetFormFromFile instead, being a function suited literally for this sort of purpose, but it isn't that it ((hmm, I wonder...)) that it has to use it. GetForm should be perfectly good to use (and the issue with load orders >7F does not happen here).

 

Now it gets more interesting when you factor in what the debug spell does.

 

It does a few things, but the most relevant part is that it tries out the GetForm, GetFormEx, GetFormFromFile, and GetModByName Papyrus functions. All Papyrus, no special DLL code involved - besides SKSE for GetFormEx and GetModByName. GetModByName works (it's able to locate ModName.esp), GetFormFromFile works (Skyrim function to load a form from a file), but GetForm and GetFormEx do not work.

Native Papyrus functions are unable to load the form.

 

But before I go on about all that, I need to ask someone an important question:

As far as I know there were two CC mods that were available for free at one time or another:

Survival Mode and Dwarven Armored Mudcrab.

All esl mods are having the same index 0xFE (254).

I wonder if it possible that two or more esl mods could cause problem with reading load order?

[tasairis]

32 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

In the meantime I have something different: 

NiOverride version problem.

 

edit: Actually, while the version check needs updating, failing that isn't necessarily a problem. I'm looking...

[tasairis]

38 minutes ago, DoubleTrouble999 said:

As far as I know there were to CC mods that were available for free at one time or another:

Were free. I missed them when they were.

 

edit 2: Sorry, you're right: are free. Mudcrab one is still available, and there's an mage clothes thing too. Now I'll see if they're masters...

Quote

All esl mods are having the same index 0xFE (254).

I wonder if it possible that two or more esl mods could cause problem with reading load order?

That's what the first two digits of the full form ID are, but Creation Club ESL masters are loaded early: after the official ESMs and before all other mod files. In that sense their "load order" is not FE but something starting from 05. And if SKSE is working from a list of mods arranged according to when they were loaded then that means form IDs cannot be easily calculated in the normal way of (load order * 0x1000000 + relative form ID) anymore.

 

That's what I'm thinking is happening. It means that GetForm/GetFormEx have become useless for anything besides the official ESMs and that modders must use GetFormFromFile instead.

 

edit: In fact, regardless of this, GetForm and GetFormEx are already useless for ESL mods.

[linemore]

1 hour ago, tasairis said:

Also, @linemore and anyone else, please use the most recent debug spell from March 11th. sslEffectDebug.pex

It does a couple more tests than the original to try to understand more about exactly what isn't working; as far as I know GetFormFromFile works (OK) but GetForm/GetFormEx do not (ERR), which suggests the problem is in Skyrim itself and not JContainers.

I used the debug spell with the Survival Mode in load order and then without:

SexLabDebug_withSM.log

SexLabDebug_noSM.log

[tasairis]

40 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

In the meantime I have something different: 

21 minutes ago, tasairis said:

NiOverride version problem.

 

edit: Actually, while the version check needs updating, failing that isn't necessarily a problem. I'm looking...

Grab the XMPSELib.pex script from Oldrim XPMSE and I think EC+ will circumvent the NiOverride version problem.

[Pfiffy]

15 minutes ago, tasairis said:

NiOverride version problem.

Its not only Nio. The skeleton is also detected as wrong. XP's 4.2 for SE has the version 0.00. EC is the only mod i found so far, that checks on the nio .dll, too   

[tasairis]

12 minutes ago, linemore said:

I used the debug spell with the Survival Mode in load order and then without:

And that's literally the only change you did? Enable and disable Survival Mode? Where does it appear in your mod manager's load order in both cases (if it does at all)? Where is MNC in the load order in both cases?

[tasairis]

4 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Its not only Nio. The skeleton is also detected as wrong. XP's 4.2 for SE has the version 0.00. EC is the only mod i found so far, that checks on the nio .dll, too   

Ah, I didn't know there were two separate checks in there. The XMPSE check comes from the XPMSELib script (which is not included in SSE XPMSE) and the NiOverride "Plugin" check is probably the DLL.

[linemore]

Survival Mode does not show up in NMM at all, I removed the bsa and esl from the Data directory, MNC is right under CreatureFramework.esm:

 

[tasairis]

Thanks for the assistance linemore.

 

I grabbed a couple free Creation Club mods, installed them, and my debug spell is now producing ERR messages. So here we go:

 

Creature Framework will not work properly if you have any ESL master mods from Creation Club installed

(I know that the armored mudcrab and the mage clothes are both ESL masters. I don't know if there are any CC non-master ESL mods.)

 

The bug is either in Skyrim, SKSE, or JContainers, depending how you look at it. Despite the above warning, Creature Framework itself is okay.

[Pfiffy]

16 minutes ago, tasairis said:

Thanks for the assistance linemore.

 

I grabbed a couple free Creation Club mods, installed them, and my debug spell is now producing ERR messages. So here we go:

 

Creature Framework will not work properly if you have any ESL master mods from Creation Club installed

(I know that the armored mudcrab and the mage clothes are both ESL masters. I don't know if there are any CC non-master ESL mods.)

 

The bug is either in Skyrim, SKSE, or JContainers, depending how you look at it. Despite the above warning, Creature Framework itself is okay.

I would say the bug is creation club, but that woud be rude... Ok, I'm a rude person... I have to be... I'm a german...

 

Question, Is CF still working if it is installed without CC mods and still working after they get installed, or does it break as soon as CC Mods come in?

[Pfiffy]

41 minutes ago, linemore said:

Survival Mode does not show up in NMM at all, I removed the bsa and esl from the Data directory, MNC is right under CreatureFramework.esm:

 

Can it be downloaded and installed via NMM or can it just be activated over the CC interface?

[Pfiffy]

1 hour ago, tasairis said:

Ah, I didn't know there were two separate checks in there. The XMPSE check comes from the XPMSELib script (which is not included in SSE XPMSE) and the NiOverride "Plugin" check is probably the DLL.

Ok.. I will try it with placing the DLL in as dummy and check for the xp .pex

 

Edit... The pex did the trick. the DLL had no effect.

[tasairis]

7 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

I would say the bug is creation club, but that woud be rude... Ok, I'm a rude person... I have to be... I'm a german...

 

Question, Is CF still working if it is installed without CC mods and still working after they get installed, or does it break as soon as CC Mods come in?

That's a good question. I don't know. I don't think I can even make an educated guess.

[tasairis]

11 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Ok.. I will try it with placing the DLL in as dummy and check for the xp .pex

It doesn't work based on filenames. SKSE DLLs have an internal name for the plugin, and in the case of the SKEE64 DLL it's "skee" so the Papyrus check has to be rewritten to use "skee" too. A dummy NiOverride.dll, or even a legit SKSE64 DLL renamed to NiOverride.dll, won't work.

 

Fortunately EC+ has an alternative in case the NIO check fails. Dropping in XMPSELib.pex should be enough to get that working.

[tasairis]

19 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Can it be downloaded and installed via NMM or can it just be activated over the CC interface?

Based on how MO2 is reacting, if the ESL file fits a particular filename pattern (not just *.esl) then the game will forcibly load it. Load order be damned. However if you rename the file to not fit that pattern then it looks like a non-Creation Club ESL master.

In both NMM and MO2 you can probably create a mod containing the files, activate it, and have the game not know the difference.

[GirlPower]

1 hour ago, tasairis said:

Was MoreNastyCritters.esp at position 08 in your load order? If you're not sure, can you please try again?

 

And do you have any Creation Club mods installed?

Yes, MorenastCritters was at 08 and when i add any other mod so MoreNastCrritters moves it is detected at it new position by the debug spell.

And no, i don't have any other Creation Club mods. I picked survival mode up when is was free ....