neck gap.

[TamaChan]

anyone know how to fix a neck gap? I tried messing with npc weight. it works, and as expected fucks up the face. but after I save and reboot game to fix the fucked up face, the neck gap comes back.

[Pauduan]

The face reset is to be performed at the same time. With the NPC selected and the console activated, issue the commands 'disable' followed by 'enable'. The NPC will vanish and reappear. Works on mannequins too, command sequence can be repeated continuously till the correct weight is found.

[TamaChan]

same result. disabling and enabling the npc results in the neck gap coming back.

[Pauduan]

Interesting. This only happens to me when I use the wrong weight, and have to keep trying a few weights down to get the neck to match correctly. You could start with a very low weight - say 10 or 20 and see when it gets fixed.

 

If you want to avoid the hassle and know which mod controls that NPC, open the file in TESEdit and check the NPC weight. Using this number will fix it.

 

There is yet one more possibility, though remote, that the NPC uses a different skeleton than the body was created for. This is a more involved issue and would require more detailed work to identify/fix.

[TamaChan]

the neck gap gets fixed with any weights. I set it to 0 it's fine I set it to 100 it fixes. the problem is that after disable/enabling or restarting the game, the face looks fine again, but the gap comes back. I know, weird. also, if the info helps this the npc is using a custom race with it's own skeleton and body and everything.

[Pauduan]

When I say fixed, I mean proper fixed after NPC reload. The way the engine works is that it aligns the head and body correctly when you set the weight, but when the NPC is reloaded the game checks the actual facegeom file and loads that nif. If the nif was meant for a different body weight, the gap remains.

 

Your best bet is to create a fresh set of bodies using that skeleton as the base (Bodyslide needs to be pointed to the correct skeleton) and try using the actual weight from the ESP file. Often you may be using a substituted body which was built on a separate skeleton, and then the gaps won't match up regardless of what you try.

[allsunday]

Why not just load the NPC in the Creation Kit or TESVEdit and set their body weight to the value you want? Save and close. Works for me whenever I come across this issue (may not work for everyone). Good luck!

[TamaChan]

as I mentioned, still gap. haven't gotten a chance yet, but I will be messing with skeletons to see how it effects it.

 

[TamaChan]

When I say fixed, I mean proper fixed after NPC reload. The way the engine works is that it aligns the head and body correctly when you set the weight, but when the NPC is reloaded the game checks the actual facegeom file and loads that nif. If the nif was meant for a different body weight, the gap remains.

 

Your best bet is to create a fresh set of bodies using that skeleton as the base (Bodyslide needs to be pointed to the correct skeleton) and try using the actual weight from the ESP file. Often you may be using a substituted body which was built on a separate skeleton, and then the gaps won't match up regardless of what you try.

I was able to fix the neck gap by doing some stuff and exporting the facegen from ck, but the exported head always looks fucked up in game, like how you change the weight, however I didn't change anything about the npc is the ck so I don't know why the export shouldn't look the same.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

When I say fixed, I mean proper fixed after NPC reload. The way the engine works is that it aligns the head and body correctly when you set the weight, but when the NPC is reloaded the game checks the actual facegeom file and loads that nif. If the nif was meant for a different body weight, the gap remains.

 

Your best bet is to create a fresh set of bodies using that skeleton as the base (Bodyslide needs to be pointed to the correct skeleton) and try using the actual weight from the ESP file. Often you may be using a substituted body which was built on a separate skeleton, and then the gaps won't match up regardless of what you try.

I was able to fix the neck gap by doing some stuff and exporting the facegen from ck, but the exported head always looks fucked up in game, like how you change the weight, however I didn't change anything about the npc is the ck so I don't know why the export shouldn't look the same.

 

Before you load the any character in the CK, you need to remove the face tints folder under textures from your game folder. This was causing me problems as well until I saw it in a post and did so. After you export face gen. from the CK and close it just replace the folder before you run the game to check. This should fix your neck gap and discoloration problem. Of course this wasn't with a custom race, but I think it should work the same.

[TamaChan]

 

 

When I say fixed, I mean proper fixed after NPC reload. The way the engine works is that it aligns the head and body correctly when you set the weight, but when the NPC is reloaded the game checks the actual facegeom file and loads that nif. If the nif was meant for a different body weight, the gap remains.

 

Your best bet is to create a fresh set of bodies using that skeleton as the base (Bodyslide needs to be pointed to the correct skeleton) and try using the actual weight from the ESP file. Often you may be using a substituted body which was built on a separate skeleton, and then the gaps won't match up regardless of what you try.

I was able to fix the neck gap by doing some stuff and exporting the facegen from ck, but the exported head always looks fucked up in game, like how you change the weight, however I didn't change anything about the npc is the ck so I don't know why the export shouldn't look the same.

 

Before you load the any character in the CK, you need to remove the face tints folder under textures from your game folder. This was causing me problems as well until I saw it in a post and did so. After you export face gen. from the CK and close it just replace the folder before you run the game to check.

 

Is that only for if the textures are messed up? cause my problem is not that the textures are messed up, it's that the exported head MESH looks nothing like the original, way bigger, completely different shape, nose, chin, eyes. the mesh looks nothing like the character did before I messed with anything.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

 

 

When I say fixed, I mean proper fixed after NPC reload. The way the engine works is that it aligns the head and body correctly when you set the weight, but when the NPC is reloaded the game checks the actual facegeom file and loads that nif. If the nif was meant for a different body weight, the gap remains.

 

Your best bet is to create a fresh set of bodies using that skeleton as the base (Bodyslide needs to be pointed to the correct skeleton) and try using the actual weight from the ESP file. Often you may be using a substituted body which was built on a separate skeleton, and then the gaps won't match up regardless of what you try.

I was able to fix the neck gap by doing some stuff and exporting the facegen from ck, but the exported head always looks fucked up in game, like how you change the weight, however I didn't change anything about the npc is the ck so I don't know why the export shouldn't look the same.

 

Before you load the any character in the CK, you need to remove the face tints folder under textures from your game folder. This was causing me problems as well until I saw it in a post and did so. After you export face gen. from the CK and close it just replace the folder before you run the game to check.

 

Is that only for if the textures are messed up? cause my problem is not that the textures are messed up, it's that the exported head MESH looks nothing like the original, way bigger, completely different shape, nose, chin, eyes. the mesh looks nothing like the character did before I messed with anything.

 

Then you need to check that you have the correct masters. That would be my guess. If you need a file as a master for the CK, just edit the header in x-edit and use it that way maybe.

[TamaChan]

 

 

-snip- 

Then you need to check that you have the correct masters. That would be my guess.

 

I am booting the ck with only the mod I am trying to edit, and the base game/dlc. not exactly sure what you mean by correct mesters.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

 

 

-snip- 

Then you need to check that you have the correct masters. That would be my guess.

 

I am booting the ck with only the mod I am trying to edit, and the base game/dlc. not exactly sure what you mean by correct mesters.

 

What I meant was maybe there is another file you need as a master. Since it is a custom race it may rely on other things not in Skyrim esm. or the DLCs. I am just guessing tbh. I have only ever edited vanilla races.

[TamaChan]

 

 

-snip- 

What I meant was maybe there is another file you need as a master. Since it is a custom race it may rely on other things not in Skyrim esm. or the DLCs. I am just guessing tbh. I have only ever edited vanilla races.

 

np thanks for all the help anyways. the custom race is in the plugin, it's basically a copy of the ningheim race. either way. I'm gonna start a new thread to see if anyone else has ideas because this new problem has nothing to do with the title. I will edit post and give you a link in a sec.

 

edit: for anyone following this, discussion moved to here.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/85664-npc-facedata-gets-is-reset/

[Pauduan]

The Ningheim race does not work correctly in CK without some additional work as it is not an ESM file.

 

Read the creator's post on custom followers, you have to follow the exact process.

 

An easier way of achieving what you want is to merge the face export from Racemenu directly into the face nif of the mod, this will fix both at the same time.

 

All of this is totally unnecessary to fox your original problem though. The ESP file has the correct weight, look at that number and use it in the console in-game, then reset the character. This should fix your issue without requiring messing around in Crashkit.

[TamaChan]

like I said custom race based on ningheim, the race is included in the mod. will read though, might be the issue. anyway, as I mentioned setting the npc weight does fix the gap, but always muckes up the face mesh. but after reseting the npc, the face fixes but the neck gap returns as well. believe me I hate the ck. but I am farely certain this issue can only be fixed by regen the face and exporting from ck, however I have the above new issue.

[Pauduan]

Does the custom race come with an ESM file? CK will not properly load assets from a ESP file. You can use Wyre bash to convert the file to ESM, and after you're done it has to be switched back. Note that any custom assets the race uses (for example KS hair) will also need to be ESM-fied like the race ESP.

 

Your scenarios are:

 

1. If the original face was okay (not grey-face/stretch/distorted) then the face nif file does not need to be exported again. You should inspect the weight in CK or TESEdit (pref the latter) and use that value in-game to fix the NPC.

 

2. If the above step results in a neck gap your body and skeleton do not match. You can replace either or both from a known working race, or rebuild the body using Bodyslide with the custom race's skeleton as the master reference - remember to switch it back afterward to prevent problems later.

 

3. It is highly possible for custom race and NPC builders to get things like this wrong - specially when trying to use non-vanilla assets and resources. Many mods are poorly packaged and work correctly only in the creator's setup because they forgot to switch some kind of resource reference like skeletons, skin textures and even body references. Inspect the ESP files thoroughly for something they've missed.

[TamaChan]

the reason the neck gap was happening is b/c I am trying to kinda switch the npc gender. the npc uses a female face, but uses a male body, I figured I would just give them back a female body/armors to reduce complications. this is why the neck gap. I also deduced it wasn't a skeleton issue, it is definitely just the case of male and female bodies having different necklines. I have thoroughly looked through the plugin of the race/npc records and am positive it's just because of the above. however, the issue of it not being an esm could very well be the cause of them looking strange in the ck.
 

p.s. I hate the fucking ck. even when it works, it's slow and inefficient. I do almost all my modding in xedit. generally the only time ck is needed is navmeshes. though this is my first time messing with npc so could be more necessary then too.

[TamaChan]

making the plugin into a esm made no difference. thanks for the suggestion though.

[Pauduan]

You can't do what you want to do without a neck gap, the issue is on both the skeleton and the body. When the face was built, it was done on a specific skeleton and body type. If you try to switch them around, the face does need to be created from scratch so you got that part right (would have helped if it was mentioned right at the beginning), but on a female body. To do that the same process needs to be followed as for the Ningheim Race (or other, non-ESM custom races). Look that up and give it a shot, and have fun!