Athstai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I've got some ideas about keeping the mouth open. Can you share some of them? I'm looking into that right now too, and as far as I see the only way is a proper .lip file, which makes the actor keep his mouth open in an endless silent dialog. The problem is that the lip file format is proprietary so its not trivial to get/creat a lip file which actually does that. Have you made any more progress than this?
DocClox Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Well, I was thinking to use expression override and combat shout, which should keep the mouth open at the expense of making them look a little fierce. We can probably explain that as outrage at the intrusion. I thought about lip files as well. I was thinking of recording an "ohhhhhh" noise. Potentially, if we get two files of different length, we may be able to find the length byte with hex comparison. Then we can try zero and minus one to see if that means "forever". Failing that, we can use a long one and a scrip that keeps forcing the three wearer to say the silent oh noise.
GHJKL Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Custom Bit Gags ' date=' Thanks For the Taurus Pic Cheers [/quote'] yay, so awesome
Athstai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Well' date=' I was thinking to use expression override and combat shout, which should keep the mouth open at the expense of making them look a little fierce. We can probably explain that as outrage at the intrusion.[/quote'] Unfortunatly afaik, "Combat Shout" is just another expression with a fancy name, the mouth stays closed as long as the actor isn't speaking. I thought about lip files as well. I was thinking of recording an "ohhhhhh" noise. Potentially, if we get two files of different length, we may be able to find the length byte with hex comparison. Then we can try zero and minus one to see if that means "forever". Its not that easy format wise I think. However I just noticed that the next problem is that the player is actually unable to talk ever, so such a solution would never work for the PC. I'm not sure if there is any situation where the player opens his mouth at all, it stays closed on shouts, battle cries and combat hits at least. As for NPC, the endless dialog loop has other problems. They won't be able to talk, they will probably not do any AI packages, other NPCs will probably react to the "dialog" and so on. Put together, I don't think there is any feasible way for an open mouth animation at this time.
DocClox Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Unfortunatly afaik' date=' "Combat Shout" is just another expression with a fancy name, the mouth stays closed as long as the actor isn't speaking. [/quote'] OK, that's one approach that won't work then. I thought about lip files as well. I was thinking of recording an "ohhhhhh" noise. Potentially' date=' if we get two files of different length, we may be able to find the length byte with hex comparison. Then we can try zero and minus one to see if that means "forever".[/quote'] Its not that easy format wise I think. However I just noticed that the next problem is that the player is actually unable to talk ever, so such a solution would never work for the PC. You sure about that? Someone on Beth forums reported that Game.GetPlayer().Say(topic) worked. Also: forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1356011-how-to-have-the-player-talk/ As for NPC' date=' the endless dialog loop has other problems. They won't be able to talk, they will probably not do any AI packages, other NPCs will probably react to the "dialog" and so on. [/quote'] We can worry about those problems if we get the mouth to open at all They seem more like complications that insurmountable obstacles. Incidentally, the .lip format used for Fallout is documented. I don't know what sort of changes they've made for Skyrim, but in combination with a few custom "oh" files we should be able to figure it out. How were you thinking of applying the .lip file if you did work out the format?
Athstai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 You sure about that? Someone on Beth forums reported that Game.GetPlayer().Say(topic) worked. Also: forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1356011-how-to-have-the-player-talk/ Say() doesn't works for the player (it won't even show in the subtitle)' date=' also not if you pass an "say as" actor. The player also won't say anything if you give him a dialog in a scene. Not sure about the post you linked, the "solution" doesn't really makes any sense to me. We can worry about those problems if we get the mouth to open at all They seem more like complications that insurmountable obstacles. Yes, if it would work otherwise flawless I would agree, but already getting there is too much work imho (at least for me because my main goal is to work on my story mod). And then I would still need the player to be able to do it. Incidentally, the .lip format used for Fallout is documented. I don't know what sort of changes they've made for Skyrim, but in combination with a few custom "oh" files we should be able to figure it out. I saw this and no the format is not identically anymore. I think if I invested a lot time I could get a tinker a lip file which does a long enough ohh or ahh, but again I would actually need this for the player. How were you thinking of applying the .lip file if you did work out the format? Well easy enough, I wanted the open mouth for a possible BJ animation, so I would just give the Player / NPC a silent dialog with only the lip file during the animation in the scene. If done for a ballgag I would make a topic which loops forever via script. But outside of scenes this will cause the problems I noted before and they won't be easy (if at all) to fix.
DocClox Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Incidentally' date=' the .lip format used for Fallout [b']is[/b] documented. I don't know what sort of changes they've made for Skyrim, but in combination with a few custom "oh" files we should be able to figure it out. I saw this and no the format is not identically anymore. I think if I invested a lot time I could get a tinker a lip file which does a long enough ohh or ahh, but again I would actually need this for the player. Sure. We've all got other things we could be doing I might run a few tests anyway, see if anything leaps out at me.
anubis Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 well, dovahkiin relax mod do managed to get the player talk tho (just vanilla dialog) with pointing NPC and activate with Z, that if i understand what you mean for making the player to talk. and latest puppeteer master mod also trying to implement one of the expression which is shout, but somehow many users have reported that they cant get it to work with female character but it works only for male character, ouch. maybe you can have a look at it Doc. i'm really bad with this gameplay mod thing especially scripting that i totally sucks. good luck Doc, may the force be with you
Athstai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 well' date=' dovahkiin relax mod do managed to get the player talk tho (just vanilla dialog) with pointing NPC and activate with Z, that if i understand what you mean for making the player to talk. I know I'm lazy for not trying it out myself, but are you sure the player is actually talking and really so moving his lips? Because its fairly easy to make it appear that the player is talking with some ghost npc or something like this. and latest puppeteer master mod also trying to implement one of the expression which is shout, but somehow many users have reported that they cant get it to work with female character but it works only for male character, ouch. maybe you can have a look at it Doc. i'm really bad with this gameplay mod thing especially scripting that i totally sucks. good luck Doc, may the force be with you Maybe that the battle shout expression after all? I only tested this for female characters and it didnt do anything. Will probably check this out later.
anubis Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I know I'm lazy for not trying it out myself' date=' but are you sure the player is actually talking and really so moving his lips? Because its fairly easy to make it [b']appear[/b] that the player is talking with some ghost npc or something like this. it worked with moving lips as well, tested it couple times. just hated to point out the crosshair to NPC to make it work so it will kinda difficult to view that our character is talking, keep pressing "F" sometimes do the trick. Maybe that the battle shout expression after all? I only tested this for female characters and it didnt do anything. Will probably check this out later. well i think is really like shout expression tho (mouth are really wide open) battle expression afaik is mostly just an anger look, from what i've seen so far in my game tho. like screenshot from one of the user that i linked above.
Athstai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 it worked with moving lips as well' date=' tested it couple times. just hated to point out the crosshair to NPC to make it work so it will kinda difficult to view that our character is talking, keep pressing "F" sometimes do the trick. [/quote'] Turns out my testing was a bit sloppy. Say() actually DOES work for the player, it just won't show subtitles. So of course when I tested it with quick silent records, I couldn't read or hear anything and was sure it didn't work. Thanks a lot for pointing that mod out Gonna check the second mod with the shout thing and see if there is anything more usefull.
Athstai Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Alright, and the second mod uses the "Combat Shout" expression we already talked about. It works perfectly for men and female kitties, but all human females ignore it. I really can't help but wonder why. Too bad, it would have been PERFECT. But no...
anubis Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Alright' date=' and the second mod uses the "Combat Shout" expression we already talked about. It works perfectly for men and female kitties, but all human females ignore it. I really can't help but wonder why. Too bad, it would have been PERFECT. But no... [/quote'] yes, it would have been perfect absolutely...excited already when i see that singing bard screenshot. made me quite curious tho, why the expression is not working for female. maybe because some script or even bad facegen. one thing for sure, i think its working, the only problem is, it gives the wrong expression (anger look). so theres must be something that blocking that combat expression.
Athstai Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 What About Egm Files . that Go with the Nif ? Man' date=' good point. Not being a graphic guy I had of course no idea they existed. But just to test it, I replaced the female head and mouth .tri and nif files with the male ones and while the result looks horrible in terms of humanity, the result will open its mouth like it is supposed to. So its entirely possible to get the proper open mouth animation in by changing/fixing the tri file. And it would be a [b']much better and cleaner[/b] way than hacking lip files with fake dialog. Question is how much work it is and so if it can be done. I'm going to check out some of the tuts which are out there (like this one http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=18566), but again truth is I'm not a graphic guy, so thats not really an area where I can get things done :/
DocClox Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 I don't have my game here - can someone shout as a female PC in 3rd person and see if that animates correctly? If it does, the fix may be as simple as copying a hkx file.
Athstai Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 No it doesn't afaik and I'm being told animations cannot change anything in the facial expression ever BTW there is a import tool for tri files for blender http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/14589 if anyone is using this. From the screenshots it looks like you can fix the combat shout animation there... maybe
DocClox Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 So female PCs in game don't open their mouths for Fus-Ro-Dah? How the hell did that get past testing? Looks like there's an "oh" sound animation in the package though. That could work. Although I have no idea what to do with a .tri file or how to make the game recognise a new one.
Athstai Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 This should actually be really easy. Just need to copy the "Ohh" morph animation to the combat shout, export, put tri file into place. Done. Of course if you are using blender for the first time, its not that easy tho Lets see.
Athstai Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Here we go. I did a quick hack and swapped the BigAhh with Combat Shout, so now if you use this as Expression Override the female PC will open her mouth. Its really only a hack, becasue right now the BigAhh will not work properly anymore in dialogs lip sync and I would also like it to open her mouth a bit further (which can be done by editing this animation in Blender), but it will definitely work so far. BTW, the female mouth .tri file had no animation for combat shout at all, so its really Beth being lazy and telling themself noone plays a female PC anyway
DocClox Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Excellent! Any reason not to copy BigAhh over both slots? After backing up the original female shout, I mean? Do the files need to be different for some reason?
Athstai Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Swapping was easier and I didn't get the export function to work properly in blender (I think it does work tho). I'm hoping that someone who actually knows how to work with Blender will modify the animation a bit, to have the mouth opening a bit more, because that would look better for a BJ animation I think.
weeds3 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Posted August 2, 2012 wow that looks awesome!!! you gonna upload it? =3 Yea Sure ' date=' I will . As long the Credit goes to GSB I wont make a .Esp though .People will have to get in themselves. or Maybe Give it to Doc I will make a few more before I upload this one . Cheers [/quote'] hmm a few more before you upload?
weeds3 Posted August 2, 2012 Author Posted August 2, 2012 This is a Modified Quickie of GSB's Pony Bit from Oblivion ' date='( All Credit to Him , I suck at Meshes and Texuring ) As For a Ball Gag it should be easier , Cheers [/quote'] btw where is the GSB's Pony Bit mod, could i get a link?
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now