Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Hi Only a small but important question, many cool mods need to activate the Face Overlays for they can work. As well as the decapitations are some of the coolest thing in the game. My question is ... even after all this time the Face Overlays still causes CTDs and even knowing the root of the problem there is no way to fix it definitively? not? really???
srayesmanll Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Nope. I know they have tried, but there is no fix. The only ways to avoid it is either use something like Violens to disable decaps (not sure if you can disable decap for PC only, or if it removes ALL decaps, or just lessens the chance) or not apply Face Overlays. Now remember, the CTD only occurs if the character being decapitated has a face overlay at the time of decap. So unless you're going around applying FOs to every NPC you see in addition to the PC, the CTD shouldn't happen that often. And if your game is CTDing so often because of the FO issue, then maybe you should avoid getting into close combat . Seriously though, Violens or no FOs - those are the only current complete "fixes" for it.
Guest Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Violens has an option to make your character immune to kill moves. Besides entirely sidestepping the decap ctd issue you also no longer have to put up with those utterly bullshit 2 hand kill moves that are impossible to dodge or block that Bethesda be trollin' us with.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 Nope. I know they have tried, but there is no fix. The only ways to avoid it is either use something like Violens to disable decaps (not sure if you can disable decap for PC only, or if it removes ALL decaps, or just lessens the chance) or not apply Face Overlays. Now remember, the CTD only occurs if the character being decapitated has a face overlay at the time of decap. So unless you're going around applying FOs to every NPC you see in addition to the PC, the CTD shouldn't happen that often. And if your game is CTDing so often because of the FO issue, then maybe you should avoid getting into close combat . Seriously though, Violens or no FOs - those are the only current complete "fixes" for it. Also The Dance of Death has the same option And in fact is true, when a fight begins or entered a dungeon, the only safe option for me is to disable flushing or sweat, and for enemies with tattoos on the face, the only way to kill them without causing CTDs is with Defeat. But mods like this out of the player's real control http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/77135/? they cause CTDs even when the prisoners only have dirt on the face, no tattoos, no flushing, no sweat. And of course that happens with NPCs very often, that only CTDs are produced in the main character decapitations is a myth.
Morferous Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Violens has an option to make your character immune to kill moves. Besides entirely sidestepping the decap ctd issue you also no longer have to put up with those utterly bullshit 2 hand kill moves that are impossible to dodge or block that Bethesda be trollin' us with. Those are not moves that are impossible to avoid. You presume that death happens after the attack. It is exactly the opposite. Those animations happen, because engine calculated coming blow as a killing blow, which executes the animation. That is quite correct. Massive damage calculations for creatures are not acting properly. Creature attacks have inaccurate calculations for damage. Game uses massive damage calculation and simply presumes that your character would have died from the blow and runs a killmove. Dragon massive attacks are notorious examples of this. I admit that everyone would likely died from such amount of damage dealt and it is fine for vanilla game. It is not fine for modded games, where restrictions are very different - especially in adult modded games. This is why I have also used VioLens to disable player targeted killmoves.
srayesmanll Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Also The Dance of Death has the same option Although that's true, I never mention that one cause even the mod author of TDoD recommends people use Violens instead. TDoD hasn't been updated in 4 yrs and has no support.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 Violens has an option to make your character immune to kill moves. Besides entirely sidestepping the decap ctd issue you also no longer have to put up with those utterly bullshit 2 hand kill moves that are impossible to dodge or block that Bethesda be trollin' us with. Those are not moves that are impossible to avoid. You presume that death happens after the attack. It is exactly the opposite. Those animations happen, because engine calculated coming blow as a killing blow, which executes the animation. That is quite correct. Massive damage calculations for creatures are not acting properly. Creature attacks have inaccurate calculations for damage. Game uses massive damage calculation and simply presumes that your character would have died from the blow and runs a killmove. Dragon massive attacks are notorious examples of this. I admit that everyone would likely died from such amount of damage dealt and it is fine for vanilla game. It is not fine for modded games, where restrictions are very different - especially in adult modded games. This is why I have also used VioLens to disable player targeted killmoves. But CTDs also happen in NPCs and that can not really be avoided, because they happen even in large cells of the game as Soledad or other big cities. The bounty hunting of PO, adds great immersion to the game but they cut heads to everything that moves, so I had to turn them off, and that's not cool, not cool have it to choose between one thing or another, when it is assumed that according to many arrogant PC gamers, on the PC you can '' do everything '' and that is not true, but they get angry when you tell them.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 Also The Dance of Death has the same option Although that's true, I never mention that one cause even the mod author of TDoD recommends people use Violens instead. TDoD hasn't been updated in 4 yrs and has no support. I like The Dance of Death, I did not install it so many years ago, I just installed it a few months ago, an old Mod does not mean a bad Mod. I have reviewed Violens but I did not decide to install it because at least the last time I checked it the only difference was to be able to control magic attacks.
srayesmanll Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 I like The Dance of Death, I did not install it so many years ago, I just installed it a few months ago, an old Mod does not mean a bad Mod. I have reviewed Violens but I did not decide to install it because at least the last time I checked it the only difference was to be able to control magic attacks. Never said old=bad. Trust me... 50 =/= bad . It is however completely unsupported, and the mod author of TDoD is the one suggesting that people use VioLens. So since they are basically the same, the mod author recommends it, AND is currently supported, then there is no real reason NOT to use it, right? Personally I don't care, I don't use either one (I've tried Violens, but it didn't make me go "WOW" so I dropped it). And since I don't use the blush mods and don't really apply FOs to NPCs in general, I don't really see the need to clutter up my load order with mods like VioLens to catch a rare CTD (rare in my case anyway). I DO use HeartBreaker - same author as VioLens. Gives the PC a heart removal killmove that is cool = made me go "WOW".
Morferous Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 I don't have any mods distributing NPC face overlays either. Only character in my game using them is my own - mostly meaning temporary overlays from mods connecting to SlaveTats. Personally I think that VioLens has some really cool features, because it allows to select killmove animations inside categories. I have had a lot of fun with that, when I combined them with custom animations. Most important feature for me is of course to disable player targeted killmoves, so I can keep face overlays active and avoid buggy creature massive damage killmoves. That is all what I actually needed.
Guest Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Violens has an option to make your character immune to kill moves. Besides entirely sidestepping the decap ctd issue you also no longer have to put up with those utterly bullshit 2 hand kill moves that are impossible to dodge or block that Bethesda be trollin' us with. Those are not moves that are impossible to avoid. You presume that death happens after the attack. It is exactly the opposite. Those animations happen, because engine calculated coming blow as a killing blow, which executes the animation. That is quite correct. The combination of combat mods I run are intended to make things feel a lot less 'on rails' than was originally intended when the basis of those killcam pre-calculations were decided upon by the developer. Stuff like combat styles, damage and block multipliers, rotation angle while walking or running with weapons drawn, speed when backing up, weapons reach versus strike angle etc. I can be inside the reach of the NPCs weapon, but weapons drawn side-movement speed enables me to get outside of it's reduced strike angle even as it has committed to it. But if the engine has already pre-calcuated that the strike would out-damage my block percentage and zero my HP on hit as it is initiated, the killcam will proc. This is the same sort of canned bullshit that allows dragons to very often proc a kill move regardless of what's between you and them. So yeah, keep telling me I'm presuming things, and I'll keep preventing the engine from interrupting my otherwise pretty snappy and brutally unforgiving combat flow with it's crappy canned death moves that I can do nothing about otherwise.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 I like The Dance of Death, I did not install it so many years ago, I just installed it a few months ago, an old Mod does not mean a bad Mod. I have reviewed Violens but I did not decide to install it because at least the last time I checked it the only difference was to be able to control magic attacks. Never said old=bad. Trust me... 50 =/= bad . It is however completely unsupported, and the mod author of TDoD is the one suggesting that people use VioLens. So since they are basically the same, the mod author recommends it, AND is currently supported, then there is no real reason NOT to use it, right? Personally I don't care, I don't use either one (I've tried Violens, but it didn't make me go "WOW" so I dropped it). And since I don't use the blush mods and don't really apply FOs to NPCs in general, I don't really see the need to clutter up my load order with mods like VioLens to catch a rare CTD (rare in my case anyway). I DO use HeartBreaker - same author as VioLens. Gives the PC a heart removal killmove that is cool = made me go "WOW". I did not say you said it, but I saw the opportunity and I take advantage of it, to say that the old things are not bad, and are many times better than new or updated things Okay. However, cut heads in the game is an action of the vanilla system with perk or not, without Violens or with it, heads will be cutted, unless you turn off decapitation completely using the console, but to some of us the decapitations at any moment are cool lol I do use Heart Breaker Mod too! it's a funny Mod!
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 I don't have any mods distributing NPC face overlays either. Only character in my game using them is my own - mostly meaning temporary overlays from mods connecting to SlaveTats. Personally I think that VioLens has some really cool features, because it allows to select killmove animations inside categories. I have had a lot of fun with that, when I combined them with custom animations. Most important feature for me is of course to disable player targeted killmoves, so I can keep face overlays active and avoid buggy creature massive damage killmoves. That is all what I actually needed. Okay. But some of us want a little more, that the NPCs blush when they watch a sex scene, even in combat, the best rape its the combat rape ... that an NPC contemplating the landscape has dry skin while one who is chopping wood begins to sweat, I like that kind of things adding immersion to the game And of course that the immersion not be interrupted by a Bounty Hunter who cuts the heads, not because they cut heads but because it should not be a problem! ... everything should be able to fit, but it is not
Morferous Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Violens has an option to make your character immune to kill moves. Besides entirely sidestepping the decap ctd issue you also no longer have to put up with those utterly bullshit 2 hand kill moves that are impossible to dodge or block that Bethesda be trollin' us with. Those are not moves that are impossible to avoid. You presume that death happens after the attack. It is exactly the opposite. Those animations happen, because engine calculated coming blow as a killing blow, which executes the animation. That is quite correct. The combination of combat mods I run are intended to make things feel a lot less 'on rails' than was originally intended when the basis of those killcam pre-calculations were decided upon by the developer. Stuff like combat styles, damage and block multipliers, rotation angle while walking or running with weapons drawn, speed when backing up, weapons reach versus strike angle etc. I can be inside the reach of the NPCs weapon, but weapons drawn side-movement speed enables me to get outside of it's reduced strike angle even as it has committed to it. But if the engine has already pre-calcuated that the strike would out-damage my block percentage and zero my HP on hit as it is initiated, the killcam will proc. This is the same sort of canned bullshit that allows dragons to very often proc a kill move regardless of what's between you and them. So yeah, keep telling me I'm presuming things, and I'll keep preventing the engine from interrupting my otherwise pretty snappy and brutally unforgiving combat flow with it's crappy canned death moves that I can do nothing about otherwise. Grumpy day? We are talking about the same thing: the engine calculates the hit damage first and then executes the base damage according to that. Your first reply did not reflect you acknowledging this, when you wrote "also no longer have to put up with those utterly bullshit 2 hand kill moves that are impossible to dodge or block that Bethesda be trollin' us with." I can only respond to what you write, not what you think that other understand from your posts. As I said in my posts above: I most definitely recommend disabling player targeted killmoves with VioLens. Creature killmoves are notoriously buggy.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 By the way, guys ... you know if SE have the same problem?
bicobus Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 No SKSE yet for SE, so we don't know. Most likely yes, however we will possibly never know as all skse plugins may need to be updated/rewritten.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 No SKSE yet for SE, so we don't know. Most likely yes, however we will possibly never know as all skse plugins may need to be updated/rewritten. Why the guys of SKSE never fixed this damn thing? Is it impossible or something?
bicobus Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 It's not a SKSE problem, it's a Creation Engine problem.
Sneaksmile Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 It's not a SKSE problem, it's a Creation Engine problem. I had said that the vanilla game is the culprit but you mentioned SKSE
Morferous Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 It's not a SKSE problem, it's a Creation Engine problem. I had said that the vanilla game is the culprit but you mentioned SKSE NetImmerse Override requires SKSE. NiO is the one managing overlays. What bicobus meant is that we don't know, until we can test. We can't test, until SKSE64 and NiO extension are out.
Sneaksmile Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 It's not a SKSE problem, it's a Creation Engine problem. I had said that the vanilla game is the culprit but you mentioned SKSE NetImmerse Override requires SKSE. NiO is the one managing overlays. What bicobus meant is that we don't know, until we can test. We can't test, until SKSE64 and NiO extension are out. NetImmerse Override it is the guilty? And there is no other option? I mean ... that can supplant it?
Morferous Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 NiO is not actually guilty. As said above, problem is the Creation Engine. Call it as CE limitation that is hard to bypass.
Sneaksmile Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 NiO is not actually guilty. As said above, problem is the Creation Engine. Call it as CE limitation that is hard to bypass. Creation of the original game?
Morferous Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Creation Engine is Bethesda's 3D Video Game engine, based on Gamebryo engine. Creation Engine is what was used to create Skyrim.
Sneaksmile Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 Creation Engine is Bethesda's 3D Video Game engine, based on Gamebryo engine. Creation Engine is what was used to create Skyrim. They used the CK, not?
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