STEP Frustration

*Kimy* · October 3, 2016

Extracting mods into the Data directory is bad only if you can't cleanly remove them again or don't know in what order to install them. In contrast to what the MO cult says, it doesn't matter at all otherwise. So I'd alter your statement into "MANUALLY extracting mods int the Data directory is a bad idea". Personally I would point a new user to NMM, because it's simple and gets the job done. If they discover a need for more advanced features, they can still switch to MO and/or WyreBash down the road. At least then they have a basic understanding of handling mods and might be able to figure out MO despite its complexity.

To a complete beginner, the STEP-steps must be completely overwhelming, and I can't think of a good reason other than religious ones to try make a newbie use MO -on top of- WyreBash. It's the most complicated way to handle mods known to Tamriel.

Does NMM have a simpler interface than MO? I haven't used it, I assumed it was pretty similar to MO but with better Nexus integration. But if it's easier to use, then yeah that would be a lot better for novices.

Personally, I find NMM waaaaaay more accessible than MO. You dump the mod into NMM and click "install". That's it. If a mod requires to overwrite another mod's files, you get a prompt. That's the only time you actually have to think. I would think even a complete newbie can learn NMM basics inside 5 mins. MO...not so much.

i click on add mod, that open my dl folder, i click on the mod ant it's installed

don't get how this is less accessible

what is a newbie? someone that don't really know what he is doing, and fail more

newbie install mod a, and didn't bother with the readme, he don't have mod b and c required by mod a, and crash before main menu

he make a stupid post, someone tell him he need b and c

but that still don't work because mod b have to be installed before mod a that replace some of its files

it's not because newbie have no idea what he is doing he is a dumbass

he may be stuck with nmm because he have no idea what the problem is, and can only hope someone read his post and know what the problem is

but if he use mo, and had the same problem with mod j and k, he may take a look at those flags near the mods folders, and try moving one down

or if he give up, unchecking those mods folders don't have any impact on the rest, nothing was overwritten

clicking with style on the install button in nmm don't change the fact you have no idea if that mod is compatible with your load order, you are the same as newbie or me, everyone fail

it's a smaller problem if you use mo, it have more tools to find what the problem is, and it allow you to mess safely with anything

you tried enderal? you crash in enderal? i no longer crash (for now, i may find some ctd to fix later)

Look, even most MO fans readily admit that MO has a steep learning curve compared to other managers, and that it's an advanced mod manager for advanced users. I know that YOU don't. You're the Inquisitor in Chief of the MO cult, after all. And you prefer to rub your alleged superiority in other people's faces, call them "dumbasses", "fail" and "stupid" if they make mistakes related to their inexperience, and tell them how awesome YOU are by posting screenies of you successfully installing a mod. In the true fashion of a thirteen year old boy who thinks bragging makes them superior. Ok, congratulations on successfully installing Enderal! Not that it had anything to do with the topic at hand, but I BOW IN AWE! Happy now?

Honestly, your postings and your self-righteous, arrogant, condescending tone constantly exhibited therein make me angry. I can't stand braggers and arrogant people, probably that's why. I also think I have to deal with people's little mistakes a whole lot more than you do, but feel free to search my 2000 postings to see if I -ever- called anybody names for making even the most silly of beginner's mistakes.

Morferous · October 3, 2016

Peoples use what they are comfortable with. There are perfectly valid reasons for peoples to use both mod managers.

Some players find managing plugins resource priorities very easy with MO. Some players are very comfortable with NMM and can easily follow conflicts with it.

As far as they all know how resources work - or at least the concept that their load order should be sensible in mod managers that load BSAs according to ESP order, and that loose files will win all conflicts -, then they are fine. At least as far they read the ReadMe for mods, which is not always given.

Mod manager - NMM or MO - has less to do with modding Skyrim than grasping what Skyrim load order and those managers are actually doing. Everything else is just a matter of preference after that.

Arguing about who uses NMM or MO is like arguing about who uses Firefox or Chrome. Everyone has their own opinion.

For the record, I am with Firefox. Feel free to start some pyres.

I will bring marshmallows and few forum trolls from Steam forums. I picked those trolls as leftovers from last Steam sale and they are starting to turn green. I should have used more salt...

yatol · October 3, 2016

Look, even most MO fans readily admit that MO has a steep learning curve compared to other managers, and that it's an advanced mod manager for advanced users.

and your point is?

a car is a more advanced vehicule than a bike

doubt you will sell your car to buy a bike because of that...

and it's not because a newbie can't use those features he have no use for them

the ones that are asking for load order and papyrus log, they may see what the problem is with them

you thought the purpose of that screen is to show you i was able to install enderal?

come on...

that's to show you the mess i did to try one mod...

i am not a kimy that can make things work by clicking with style on the install button

wasn't the step blabla written because that's not enought? their blabla isn't enought either

failing is a just a matter of time, the problem is seeing it to take care of it

MataHari · October 3, 2016

Personally, I find NMM waaaaaay more accessible than MO. You dump the mod into NMM and click "install". That's it. If a mod requires to overwrite another mod's files, you get a prompt. That's the only time you actually have to think. I would think even a complete newbie can learn NMM basics inside 5 mins. MO...not so much.

In NMM, several mods can overwrite same files several times. Unless you keep a book, then you will have to remember/learn the installation order for loose files again every time you update mods that are conflicting with each other.

This is the part that MO makes easy. You only need to set them all once in the left panel. Then you no longer need to worry about them at all, unless you redo the whole thing.

The same thing about overwriting mod files also applies for BAIN in Wrye Bash.

swmas · October 4, 2016

Personally, I find NMM waaaaaay more accessible than MO. You dump the mod into NMM and click "install". That's it. If a mod requires to overwrite another mod's files, you get a prompt. That's the only time you actually have to think. I would think even a complete newbie can learn NMM basics inside 5 mins. MO...not so much.

In NMM, several mods can overwrite same files several times. Unless you keep a book, then you will have to remember/learn the installation order for loose files again every time you update mods that are conflicting with each other.

This is the part that MO makes easy. You only need to set them all once in the left panel. Then you no longer need to worry about them at all, unless you redo the whole thing.

The same thing about overwriting mod files also applies for BAIN in Wrye Bash.

It's best to overwrite files. There is no point in keeping files that the game doesn't even use

Morferous · October 4, 2016

It's best to overwrite files. There is no point in keeping files that the game doesn't even use

I want to clarify somethings, so that peoples reading this later will not get the wrong idea.

Same loose files sharing the same file name do not always contain the same information. This is obvious with textures and meshes, but it is also true for several scrips.

If you use mods that are sing several conflicting scripts, then you will have to also update them in correct order. You will have to remember the order for each such mods, if you do not see these conflicts.

For example:

A, B, C, D and E each holds a script using the same name. E is the one that should win the conflict. In this case the problem is obvious: make sure that E is installed last and do not allow any mod to win conflict against the script.

From the same list, A and D share two other scripts. D is the one that needs to win the conflict.

When mod A gets updated, both D and E need to win the conflict. If you do not remember this and conflict is not visible, then updating mod A will cause the situation where D and E are using wrong scripts, which are needed for the game according to either load order, or A scripts just being old and obsolete.

This is what we are talking about, when we speak about files overwriting each other. This is also why so many peoples consider that as a problem.

There might be several similar conflicts between different mods and patches in any wider mod list. When you do figure out that something is wrong, then trying to look for the culprit from the Data folder does not give any indication which mod provided current resource files. You don't know, if you are using correct files, unless you are actually keeping a book about it and trust it being correct.

This example was related to Nexus Mod Manager or manual installation. Files are physically overwritten and the Data folder does not point out where those files came from.

In Mod Organizer files do not ever actually overwrite each other. They are in isolated mod folders. You can see the conflicts from left panel. If you did something wrong, you can simply move the mod folder to correct position. The order of installation for mods does not apply, just the way they are ordered in left panel. You sort them properly once and that is pretty much it, unless you restart the game and rebuild part of your mod list, which might change conflict relationships between mod resources again.

I am not taking part to any MO vs. NMM discussion with this reply. My opinion remains: understanding what happens under the hood is more important than the mod manager you are using.

---

This conversation started from STEP. Should we get back to topic?

swmas · October 5, 2016

It's best to overwrite files. There is no point in keeping files that the game doesn't even use

I want to clarify somethings, so that peoples reading this later will not get the wrong idea.

Same loose files sharing the same file name do not always contain the same information. This is obvious with textures and meshes, but it is also true for several scrips.

If you use mods that are sing several conflicting scripts, then you will have to also update them in correct order. You will have to remember the order for each such mods, if you do not see these conflicts.

For example:

A, B, C, D and E each holds a script using the same name. E is the one that should win the conflict. In this case the problem is obvious: make sure that E is installed last and do not allow any mod to win conflict against the script.

From the same list, A and D share two other scripts. D is the one that needs to win the conflict.

When mod A gets updated, both D and E need to win the conflict. If you do not remember this and conflict is not visible, then updating mod A will cause the situation where D and E are using wrong scripts, which are needed for the game according to either load order, or A scripts just being old and obsolete.

This is what we are talking about, when we speak about files overwriting each other. This is also why so many peoples consider that as a problem.

There might be several similar conflicts between different mods and patches in any wider mod list. When you do figure out that something is wrong, then trying to look for the culprit from the Data folder does not give any indication which mod provided current resource files. You don't know, if you are using correct files, unless you are actually keeping a book about it and trust it being correct.

This example was related to Nexus Mod Manager or manual installation. Files are physically overwritten and the Data folder does not point out where those files came from.

In Mod Organizer files do not ever actually overwrite each other. They are in isolated mod folders. You can see the conflicts from left panel. If you did something wrong, you can simply move the mod folder to correct position. The order of installation for mods does not apply, just the way they are ordered in left panel. You sort them properly once and that is pretty much it, unless you restart the game and rebuild part of your mod list, which might change conflict relationships between mod resources again.

I am not taking part to any MO vs. NMM discussion with this reply. My opinion remains: understanding what happens under the hood is more important than the mod manager you are using.

---

This conversation started from STEP. Should we get back to topic?

I was referring to wrye bash/bain users (post above mine). WB clearly tells you which mod and which file wins the overwriting war, just like MO, only you don't have a million obsolete versions of the same file on your drive. MO is a great tool but, just saying, A LOT of creators of extremely popular mods don't use it or support it, why is that? The maker of New Vegas Anti Crash has a good point: MO = "dump truck to move a pebble"

Morferous · October 5, 2016

I was referring to wrye bash/bain users (post above mine). WB clearly tells you which mod and which file wins the overwriting war, just like MO, only you don't have a million obsolete versions of the same file on your drive. MO is a great tool but, just saying, A LOT of creators of extremely popular mods don't use it or support it, why is that? The maker of New Vegas Anti Crash has a good point: MO = "dump truck to move a pebble"

You could turn that around. A LOT of creators of popular mods use MO and directly recommend it. Why is that?

Your reply only underlines my stand: arguing is pointless. Everyone uses and recommends what they see most stable for their game to use. I could make a long list about NMM faults, but I am certain that someone else could do the same for MO.

I do disagree with your comment about "million obsolete version of the same file on your drive." I rather have those files, so I can see directly see exactly which files mods are editing and which files are indeed gone obsolete. I could not do that with NMM. Peoples only concentrating on their own games may of course find less use of them. I have likely spent more times with other peoples games than my own, during last few years.

swmas · October 5, 2016

I was referring to wrye bash/bain users (post above mine). WB clearly tells you which mod and which file wins the overwriting war, just like MO, only you don't have a million obsolete versions of the same file on your drive. MO is a great tool but, just saying, A LOT of creators of extremely popular mods don't use it or support it, why is that? The maker of New Vegas Anti Crash has a good point: MO = "dump truck to move a pebble"

You could turn that around. A LOT of creators of popular mods use MO and directly recommend it. Why is that?

Your reply only underlines my stand: arguing is pointless. Everyone uses and recommends what they see most stable for their game to use. I could make a long list about NMM faults, but I am certain that someone else could do the same for MO.

I do disagree with your comment about "million obsolete version of the same file on your drive." I rather have those files, so I can see directly see exactly which files mods are editing and which files are indeed gone obsolete. I could not do that with NMM. Peoples only concentrating on their own games may of course find less use of them. I have likely spent more times with other peoples games than my own, during last few years.

I don't like having useless files on my drive, also having a lot of redundant files should still affect performance for MO even if they don't do anything in the game, the game loads slower anyway if using MO(which is why I don't use it).

MO is fantastic if your rig can handle it but if it were THAT great clearly every experienced modder would be endorsing it, it's just that so many people recommends MO with abandon, it's silly sometimes.

yatol · October 5, 2016

I don't like having useless files on my drive, also having a lot of redundant files should still affect performance for MO even if they don't do anything in the game, the game loads slower anyway if using MO(which is why I don't use it).

MO is fantastic if your rig can handle it but if it were THAT great clearly every experienced modder would be endorsing it, it's just that so many people recommends MO with abandon, it's silly sometimes.

when there's a problem those files aren't useless

for exemple

http://forum.sureai.net/viewtopic.php?f=208&p=88496#p88496

he is missing a npc he have to kill for some stuff to be done

maybe he is stuck because he is using console commands when he get stuck, or because he broke that quest script (stack dump, loading a save after doing something that is redone with stuff still in the ram, doing something that isn't allowed to do for the script to do its stuff...)

or it's because of conflicts between his save and an update

[10/05/2016 - 01:40:33PM] Papyrus log opened (PC)

[10/05/2016 - 01:40:33PM] Function GetEffectMagnitudes in the empty state on type Ingredient does not exist. Function will not be flagged as callable from tasklets.

[10/05/2016 - 01:40:33PM] Update budget: 1.200000ms (Extra tasklet budget: 1.200000ms, Load screen budget: 500.000000ms)

[10/05/2016 - 01:40:33PM] Memory page: 128 (min) 512 (max) 76800 (max total)

[10/05/2016 - 01:41:18PM] VM is freezing...

[10/05/2016 - 01:41:18PM] VM is frozen

[10/05/2016 - 01:41:18PM] Reverting game...

[10/05/2016 - 01:41:23PM] Loading game...

[10/05/2016 - 01:41:24PM] error: Native static function MoveGroup could find no matching static function on linked type utility. Function will not be bound.

[10/05/2016 - 01:41:24PM] VM is thawing...

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:15PM] VM is freezing...

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:15PM] VM is frozen

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:15PM] Reverting game...

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] Loading game...

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_NQ11TreeStump_var on script _00E_NQ11Inschrift loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_JesparEntriggerFollowNotif_var on script _00E_MQ08JesparFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_JesparEntriggerStopNotif_var on script _00E_MQ08JesparFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQ13a_SC01_LexYuslan_var on script _00E_MQ13a_SC1_StartFailsaveSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQ13a_var on script _00E_MQ13a_SC1_StartFailsaveSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::PlayerRef_var on script _00E_MQ13a_SC1_StartFailsaveSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityEndCurrentStanceToAssumeNewStance_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityEnemyHasToBeAlive_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityEnemyLevelTooHigh_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityEnemyTooFarAway_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityMarkingRemoved_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityStanceEnded_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityStanceStarted_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sAbilityTargetImmune_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEldritchBloodAttackTargetMarked_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEldritchBloodAttackVictimMarkingRemoved_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEldritchBloodVictimMarked_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEldritchBloodVictimMarkingRemoved_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEnemyAlreadyMarked_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEnemyHasToBeDead_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sEnemyMarked_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sGhostwalkEnemyTooCloseToWall_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Levelsystem_sSynergyDiscovered_var on script _00e_questfunctions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_NQ11BellaPoetryVolume_var on script _00E_NQ11Book loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_Game_UnlockNeedsSkill_var on script _00E_ChestAndDoorLockScript loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_CaliaEntriggerFollowDetail_var on script _00E_MQ07CaliaFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_CaliaEntriggerFollowNotif_var on script _00E_MQ07CaliaFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_CaliaEntriggerStopDetail_var on script _00E_MQ07CaliaFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_CaliaEntriggerStopNotif_var on script _00E_MQ07CaliaFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_MQ07b_ShowFollow_var on script _00E_MQ07CaliaFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::CompanionIsTalking_var on script _00E_MQ07CaliaFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQ13a_var on script _00E_MQ12b_SC15_StartFailsaveSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::Gamehour_var on script _00E_MQ14_PlayerSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Type of variable ::MQ14_var on script _00E_MQ14_PlayerSC, which is _00e_mq14_functions, doesn't match the type loaded in the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::WishWellState_var on script _00E_WishingWell_FailsaveSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::LightSwitch_var on script _00E_A0_PlayerHousingFurnitureDrop loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQ12b_SC15_TempleScene03_var on script _00e_mq13a_functions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::NQ17_SC1_AndrastaAppearMarker_var on script _00E_NQ17Functions loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] Cannot open store for class "_00E_MQ11a_GateToLibrarySC", missing file?

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Unable to get type _00E_MQ11a_GateToLibrarySC referenced by the save game. Objects of this type will not be loaded.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_MQ11c_StealthGame_Running_var on script _00E_MQ11c_KitchenExitDoor loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQ11c_var on script _00E_MQ11c_KitchenExitDoor loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::PlayerRef_var on script _00E_MQ11c_KitchenExitDoor loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_JesparEntriggerFollowNotif_var on script _00E_JesparFollowTriggerSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_JesparEntriggerStopNotif_var on script _00E_JesparFollowTriggerSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::NQ17_var on script SF_NQ17_SC1_001290D9 loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_FastTravel_Ark_SelectionMenu_Restricted1_var on script _00e_Ark_TravelCrossroadsSC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQP02_SebaldREF_var on script SF_MQP02_SC3_RiqAndSebald02_000775FC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::MQP02_SiriusREF_var on script SF_MQP02_SC3_RiqAndSebald02_000775FC loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_JesparEntriggerFollowNotif_var on script _00E_MQ02JesparFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_JesparEntriggerStopNotif_var on script _00E_MQ02JesparFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::bIsStartBox_var on script _00E_MQ02JesparFollowEntrigger loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_CaliaEntriggerFollowNotif_var on script _00E_CaliaFollowTriggerScript loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Variable ::_00E_CaliaEntriggerStopNotif_var on script _00E_CaliaFollowTriggerScript loaded from save not found within the actual object. This variable will be skipped.

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Could not find type _00E_MQ11a_GateToLibrarySC in the type table in save

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] warning: Function _00e_Ark_TravelCrossroadsSC..OnActivate in stack frame 0 in stack 77872 differs from the in-game resource files - using version from save

[10/05/2016 - 01:43:36PM] VM is thawing...

Unable to get type _00E_MQ11a_GateToLibrarySC referenced by the save game

OnActivate in stack frame 0 in stack 77872 differs from the in-game

that mod use a launcher for its update, that put stuff in data folder

back to morrowind time, backup before update, useless files that aren't so useless when something don't work, but work with the backup

when you install tamriel reload, skyrim launcher take more time to load the game because the game load stuff from skyrim bsa texture that is replace later by the ones of tamriel reload

when you install unof patch, game load scripts from skyrim bsa that is replace later by the ones of unof bsa

you eliminate some of that by overwritting, but it's dangerous

mo don't overwrite anything, but that don't mean you can't do it yourself once you have check it work

i can't keep that as hundred of folders in mo, i don't have enought space on the ssd for that (once you are done with the textures/npc mods, this save a lot of go)

*merryMalfunctioning* · October 6, 2016

Who said that Wrye Bash doesn't keep a bunch of obsolete copies of overwritten files? If you're using it correctly, you still have ALL of those files in the Bash_Installers directory. That's what's great about WB, it does the same basic job as Mod Organizer but in a radically different way. I prefer MO, but on days when it's pissinh me off I do find myself considering ditching it for WB.

Morferous · October 6, 2016

Who said that Wrye Bash doesn't keep a bunch of obsolete copies of overwritten files? If you're using it correctly, you still have ALL of those files in the Bash_Installers directory. That's what's great about WB, it does the same basic job as Mod Organizer but in a radically different way. I prefer MO, but on days when it's pissinh me off I do find myself considering ditching it for WB.

I should sometimes give a better run with Wrye Bash as a mod manager. I might do that, if it gets supported release for Skyrim SE, so I don't need to mess up my MO installation. So far I have mostly used Wrye Bash for Bashed Patch, but I have lately being poking around WB more than before.

No one expects Skyrim SE to be fully supported by mods and tools for a long time. I might as well test things that are new to me, when/if supported releases come out.

MataHari · October 7, 2016

Who said that Wrye Bash doesn't keep a bunch of obsolete copies of overwritten files? If you're using it correctly, you still have ALL of those files in the Bash_Installers directory. That's what's great about WB, it does the same basic job as Mod Organizer but in a radically different way. I prefer MO, but on days when it's pissinh me off I do find myself considering ditching it for WB.

I should sometimes give a better run with Wrye Bash as a mod manager. I might do that, if it gets supported release for Skyrim SE, so I don't need to mess up my MO installation. So far I have mostly used Wrye Bash for Bashed Patch, but I have lately being poking around WB more than before.

No one expects Skyrim SE to be fully supported by mods and tools for a long time. I might as well test things that are new to me, when/if supported releases come out.

Have you tried the latest WB 307 beta? If not then I suggest that you try that, I use the latest beta.

I know there is a few things in the beta that WB 306 couldn't do, so yes I'm quite sure that WB will support mods for SSE at least mods that can be re-saved in the new CK.

Unfortunately, no mods with scripts can be installed and used in SSE due to the SKSE that needs to be released as a 64-bit SKSE for SSE, which will take some time until there is a SKSE 64-bit version available.

Morferous · October 7, 2016

Have you tried the latest WB 307 beta? If not then I suggest that you try that, I use the latest beta.

I know there is a few things in the beta that WB 306 couldn't do, so yes I'm quite sure that WB will support mods for SSE at least mods that can be re-saved in the new CK.

Unfortunately, no mods with scripts can be installed and used in SSE due to the SKSE that needs to be released as a 64-bit SKSE for SSE, which will take some time until there is a SKSE 64-bit version available.

I have not yet tested that. Thank you for pointing it out.

SKSE upgrade was confirmed by the team. I have not checked if they are already working with it, but it is coming. I am more worried about SkyUI. Team is no longer active and they are unlikely to make a Skyrim SE compatible version. They did not oppose someone else doing the hard work though, so hopefully someone picks it up, or at least MCM part of it.

*Kimy* · October 7, 2016

Have you tried the latest WB 307 beta? If not then I suggest that you try that, I use the latest beta.

I know there is a few things in the beta that WB 306 couldn't do, so yes I'm quite sure that WB will support mods for SSE at least mods that can be re-saved in the new CK.

Unfortunately, no mods with scripts can be installed and used in SSE due to the SKSE that needs to be released as a 64-bit SKSE for SSE, which will take some time until there is a SKSE 64-bit version available.

I have not yet tested that. Thank you for pointing it out.

SKSE upgrade was confirmed by the team. I have not checked if they are already working with it, but it is coming. I am more worried about SkyUI. Team is no longer active and they are unlikely to make a Skyrim SE compatible version. They did not oppose someone else doing the hard work though, so hopefully someone picks it up, or at least MCM part of it.

SkyUI is such a major mod that it will quite certainly get picked up by somebody if the current maintainers don't update it. Not even how much work is needed. We don't yet know how difficult porting mods will be in general. For many, recompiling the scripts will probably be all that's needed.

MataHari · October 7, 2016

From what I know the SKSE-team cannot work with a 64-bits version since SSE hasn't been released yet, but I think they will start to work with a SKSE 64-bit version at the end of October or early in November.

There is always SkyUI-Away to use, just for the benefit of using MCM without having SkyUI installed.

Morferous · October 7, 2016

SkyUI is such a major mod that it will quite certainly get picked up by somebody if the current maintainers don't update it. Not even how much work is needed. We don't yet know how difficult porting mods will be in general. For many, recompiling the scripts will probably be all that's needed.

Both Skyrim forums in Steam have their own FAQs about the case. General consensus seems to be that this is indeed the case.

Most files should be compatible, if they are run and saved through upgraded Creation Kit. Information is a bit confusing though. Bethesda peoples have been quite open about what is coming, but what is actually confirmed is still a very small list in those FAQs.

Speaking about what was confirmed: poor PS4 users. They can now mod their games, but only with vanilla assets. That is kind of a win though. Maybe.

I agree with SkyUI getting updated, one way or another. I am surprised that schlangster was so pessimistic about it in SkyUI support thread:

Short answer: I don't know, but I think it's unlikely.

Longer answer: We're no longer active and I in particular am not going to put any more work in. Got neither the time nor is it fun anymore, so I really shouldn't be doing it. In general, I have nothing against porting it though. If we ever get to the point where someone else took care of all the details and all I have to do is update the .esp, recompile and upload, then I will do so. I just don't really expect anyone to do that.

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