Naturalistic HDT

[Bazinga]

Yeah, I know about the belly collisions and you're right, they are not perfect.

But honestly unless you can name a specific animation where it looks way off and has to be fixed I don't really wanna mess with those again, it's just too much work with too little progress. The problem simply is that the collision box for the belly will move thanks to gravity (so if you deactivate belly bounce it should be less unpredictable). Same problem like with the breasts really, exact collision locations and bouncing are conflicting on a very basic logical level here. Not much I can do about it tbh.

Another problem with belly collisions is that of course the collision box will be pushed aside by a schlong or hand or toy or whatever instead of being pushed in the direction the penetrating object is moving. Which makes it pretty much impossible to use a belly collision box that's small in shape and only sensitive to an area where it makes sense. Because with that you will often not see collision effects at all (because of the gravity-induced movement). Or the belly will be pushed inwards half the time.

 

So honestly I can't hear the words belly collisions anymore. 

But if you can point me to a specific animation where it looks intolerable for you then I'd appreciate that, as I can't check all collision effects for hundreds of animations.

 

Dunno about idles as I don't use any where she's moving her hands over her body. So please define weird.

edit: ... Now that I think of it I didn't really adjust the collision boxes for smaller and bigger breast shapes. That's something I should probably do. So thanks for the hint.

I don't think it will improve the idles though, these are for medium to large sized breasts anyway (the hand movement pretty much describes the expected shape), not for smaller ones or huge ones. Small ones probably won't react to these idles at all (as it should be, just don't use them with skinny chars) and big ones will very likely deform in a pretty grotesque way... There might be a way around that though, will have to experiment with much bigger collision box shapes that are half buried in the body though... which will screw up bounce physics... Sigh.

 

Okay, so I honestly don't know how to go about this. Chances are that if I change anything major to the physics or collisions then this might screw up other things working well now.

For example bigger breast collision boxes half buried in the body mesh might fix the issue where breasts are pulled away from the body and the hands touching them are clipping through the breast on some animations (doesn't happen for my standard UNPBB body though, but maybe for bigger boobs?). But it might also screw up boobjobs, make the breasts react to collision boxes far away from them (like his arms if he's hugging her) or increase the logical conflict I mentioned where nice-looking bouncing because of gravity/movement and reliable collision box coordinates are mutually exclusive features.

 

So what I need from you guys and gals now is kind of an overview about which animations have issues with my physics.

So if you're having problems with an animation please name the animation/animation stage and the body shape you're using. I also need to know if you used the repaint I did or the original UUNP Special meshes. Oh and for belly collisions you should add which option you chose, bounce on or off.

Then please describe the issue (or post a pic/video) with that animation.

 

With feedback like that I might get a better idea if there is still something I can do to improve this mod.

[Shubal]

Just a beautiful job! THE best in xml.s. Thank you !

[Reesewow]

 

 

Okay, so I honestly don't know how to go about this. Chances are that if I change anything major to the physics or collisions then this might screw up other things working well now.

 

For example bigger breast collision boxes half buried in the body mesh might fix the issue where breasts are pulled away from the body and the hands touching them are clipping through the breast on some animations (doesn't happen for my standard UNPBB body though, but maybe for bigger boobs?). But it might also screw up boobjobs, make the breasts react to collision boxes far away from them (like his arms if he's hugging her) or increase the logical conflict I mentioned where nice-looking bouncing because of gravity/movement and reliable collision box coordinates are mutually exclusive features.

 

So what I need from you guys and gals now is kind of an overview about which animations have issues with my physics.

So if you're having problems with an animation please name the animation/animation stage and the body shape you're using. I also need to know if you used the repaint I did or the original UUNP Special meshes. Oh and for belly collisions you should add which option you chose, bounce on or off.

Then please describe the issue (or post a pic/video) with that animation.

 

With feedback like that I might get a better idea if there is still something I can do to improve this mod.

 

 

Well, with the caveat that I'm basically 100% satisfied with your xmls as they are from a gameplay and reliability standpoint, I don't mind offering suggestions where requested.  I totally agree that it wouldn't be worth changing collisions for some very specific situations if it hurts the quality of set overall.

 

I have found that an animation set like MasterMike's Testpack (http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2979-slmastermike-testpack-animations/) has some boobjob animations for larger breasts that showcase the limitations of the smaller collision boxes.  I'm sure the animator didn't create the animations with perfect collision in mind, but his "Tittypoke" animation when aligned properly would be amazing if it was a bit more responsive to collisions (I'd also just recommend the animations from a fun standpoint if you don't have them already).

 

The most noticeable non-collision clippings I see are usually when a character or animation attempts to fondle larger breasts from the sides or front - often the hands will clip into the breasts sideways without a visible reaction.

 

My body/xml setup is:

 

Version 3.1 - Big options (middle size option), no belly collisions or bounce, original weight paints

 

Body is UUNP special built from your bodyslide meshes - it is actually a UUNP version of the CT77 body shape, but it is fairly close to the UNPB preset in shape.

[Guest Momber]

Okay, so I honestly don't know how to go about this.

 

That's quite okay then. The mod is great as it is, obviously I was nitpicking, trying to get you to push the envelope even harder than you already did

Plus I don't know the first thing about collision boxes or animations so there's that. If it helps you in any way I can take note of animations that aren't up to par by looking up which one is playing atm in the console.

 

For my personal taste the gravity effect of v3.11 looked best, all things considered - but then again, that's just me.

 

Thanks for the Bodyslide tutorial, I will check it out ASAP. There is always something new to learn.

 

Should we, as a general rule of thumb, always rebuild the body meshes with your repainted BS presets when a new version comes out - or will you specifically state when that is needed in the changelog?

 

Thanks again for the mod. Like I said, imho you have succeeded where many before you have failed and that is no small feat, given the limitations and restrictions of this 5+ year old game that we all love

 

EDIT: The animation that produced the distorted belly in one of the three screenshots of my last post is simply called (Troll) Reverse Cowgirl in the console - no mention of the author or mod where it came from. And since I use just about all animation packs known to man I wouldn't even know where to look 

 

Re. v3.11 vs v3.2 - this screenshot is with 3.11, using the medium xml (w/out belly) and the repainted Bodyslide base meshes (also from 3.11). Considering my BS preset is based on 7B Bombshell and before your mod these breasts used to look like someone had inflated them with compressed air I'm extremely stoked about the new look and behaviour. Thanks a bunch!

https://i.imgur.com/DgDIPT3.jpg

(yeah I know I should probably learn how to capture video lol)

 

[Bazinga]

 

Should we, as a general rule of thumb, always rebuild the body meshes with your repainted BS presets when a new version comes out - or will you specifically state when that is needed in the changelog?

No, so far you only need to do that one time, when first using v3 with the repainted body. I didn't change the weight painting in v3.11 or v3.2 and if I will ever do another paint job I will definitely mention that in the changelog and probably in the mod description too.

 

I'll see if I will change the breast collision boxes for less busty and for extremely well-endowed characters. At least I will play around with the values a bit and see if there is room for improvement.

And there should be, at the moment they are identical with the ones for quite but not overly busty characters, the ones I originally wrote this mod for (I started with UUNP Special Zeroed Sliders and UNPB).

 

But I already know that I won't be able to make them work perfectly with all animations.

The problem with big collision boxes is that there are at least a few animations where the sex partner has his/her hands very close to the breasts, for example grabbing her shoulders. And for these animations the breasts will either get squeezed in a way that's not pretty (just doesn't look natural) or pulled away from the body while the hand/arm is clipping through them (if the hand or arm collision box somehow manages to show up behind the center of the breast collision box thanks to the  movement between animation stages). In either case they will get stuck and that also doesn't look pretty. I mean you'd still expect some form of bouncing, right?

So I don't think that there is a perfect solution for the breasts on very well-endowed characters.

 

And smaller breasts have the problem that pretty much all animations where something touches them are made for at least medium size.

 

Long story short, quite often the limiting factor are the animations and what char proportions they are made for, not the physics mod.

But I can still try of course.

[Bazinga]

While testing animations for problems with the collision boxes I realized that I made a mistake with the forearms. Their collisions are all over the place because I put them on the wrong bone. It isn't that noticable as long as the hands are not bent but if they are then the box has the same rotational alignment as the hand, not as the forearm.

Fixed it for both v3.11 and v3.2 now and reuploaded the files.

[caoshen]

hi, I'm loving your mod, but after I installed this mod the self-collision stopped working, which means my character's hands and hair won't collide with the chests. I didn't attach any extra xml files, the female body.nif has hdtbbp and hdtvagina on it and that's it. There's nothing attached to hands, feet, or head. I tried to roll back a version but didn't help.

Any advice will be appreciated, thanks.

Edit: male hands-chest or weewee-chest collision is working like a charm.

I did have female hands-chest collision when I first installed AIO animated pussy. Now even if I had a clean install the collision is still gone. Currently, I'm using version 3.2.

[Bazinga]

Well, that the hair doesn't collide with the chest or better the breast bones is very much intentional. Because the breasts usually get stuck or move weirdly if it does.

The hands should collide just fine though... Will test that again, thanks.

 

edit: Yep, the hands are doing their job in v3.

Here's a video demonstrating the effect for one of the overly sexy idles.

 

And in that video I also captured what happens if you equip a piece of clothing or armor to the main body mesh. Collisions stop, because the two female xmls in my set are no longer attached to the character (because the naked body mesh with the link to them isn't part of the body anymore).

I'm open to suggestions but I don't see a good way to circumvent using the female main body mesh. You get the same problem if you attach the xmls to the hands or feet. Or the head, but the xmls on the head will probably get ignored for NPCs anyway. 

 

I dunno why things are still jiggling with clothes on btw. There must be a technical reason that eludes me for why that data is persistent but the collision boxes aren't.

 

 

So things you could do are:

1. Get the main body naked.

2. Attach the xml data to the clothes/armor meshes.

3. Rerun FNIS. Maybe you switched from another one of the sexy idles and the animation difference isn't big enough to give you the T-pose as a reward for forgetting to rerun FNIS.

 

Oh and there is clipping between hands and breasts. I don't finetune this for the idle animations and on top of that there's still that problem I mentioned in one of the last posts, gravity causing the breast collision boxes to move down, meaning they are a bit below the mesh.

I might fix that by just placing them a bit further up since most animations where it matters either have her standing or sitting.

 

Also I didn't adjust collision boxes for chars with smallish and huge breasts so far. Will probably do that in v3.3

And then I hope v3.3 will be the final one, I still have other modding ideas I want to realize. 

[happy_polla]

Hi I used JFFv4 edit hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml. 

- Has Conllision with hand (u can test with Sexy Animation Standing)

- Belly and Butt edit from v3.2 by Bazinga

- Bouncing good for Dance Animation

- Best Breast shape (i used UUNP Special - Demonfet)

 

hope will help for someone

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml

[caoshen]

Well, that the hair doesn't collide with the chest or better the breast bones is very much intentional. Because the breasts usually get stuck or move weirdly if it does.

The hands should collide just fine though... Will test that again, thanks.

 

edit: Yep, the hands are doing their job in v3.

Here's a video demonstrating the effect for one of the overly sexy idles.

 

And in that video I also captured what happens if you equip a piece of clothing or armor to the main body mesh. Collisions stop, because the two female xmls in my set are no longer attached to the character (because the naked body mesh with the link to them isn't part of the body anymore).

I'm open to suggestions but I don't see a good way to circumvent using the female main body mesh. You get the same problem if you attach the xmls to the hands or feet. Or the head, but the xmls on the head will probably get ignored for NPCs anyway. 

 

I dunno why things are still jiggling with clothes on btw. There must be a technical reason that eludes me for why that data is persistent but the collision boxes aren't.

 

 

So things you could do are:

1. Get the main body naked.

2. Attach the xml data to the clothes/armor meshes.

3. Rerun FNIS. Maybe you switched from another one of the sexy idles and the animation difference isn't big enough to give you the T-pose as a reward for forgetting to rerun FNIS.

 

Oh and there is clipping between hands and breasts. I don't finetune this for the idle animations and on top of that there's still that problem I mentioned in one of the last posts, gravity causing the breast collision boxes to move down, meaning they are a bit below the mesh.

I might fix that by just placing them a bit further up since most animations where it matters either have her standing or sitting.

 

Also I didn't adjust collision boxes for chars with smallish and huge breasts so far. Will probably do that in v3.3

And then I hope v3.3 will be the final one, I still have other modding ideas I want to realize. 

Thanks for your reply.

Turns out my hand breast collision works just fine, I realized that after watching your video. It's just a lot less obvious than before, therefore I thought it's gone.

Thanks for your awesome mod

[Bazinga]

uploaded v3.3 (so you can confuse this with All in One HDT even more   ) with the arm fix I did for the previous versions and with the following collision box tweaks:

 

- moved and increased collision boxes for big boobs, adjusted other settings too to get them to bounce like before.

- moved and slightly increased collision boxes for both medium and small breast sizes. They basically have the same settings except for movement limits now since I figured that you still want to see smaller breasts react to hands moving close to them even if most of the animations are made for large breasts.

 

If the breasts get stuck in a Sexlab animation (like the sex partner's arm clipping through them in Rough Missionary) just rotate the scene using the Sexlab hotkey. It's an issue with the way Sexlab moves the actors into the scene, not with the xml settings.

 

 

v3.3 combines the two previous versions, you can toggle breast rotation on and off in the installer now.

 

Oh and before I forget to mention it:

You should really use my repaint even though I offer an option to skip it. It doesn't just improve belly collisions, it also helps the boobs to jiggle better (more like fat, less like balloons).

[CuriousGent]

I really like this mod, it's the most natural looking physics set I've managed to find, in fact I've been totally spoiled by it and now any other set just looks too fake and rubbery by comparison. 

 

Alas I can't fully use the newest version of the mod in it's entirety as I'm far too attached to my custom CBBE body and I've spent what feels like years accumulating various CBBE specific armour mods and I'm loath to switch bodies, is there any chance that this mod will become more compatible with CBBE in the future?

[Bazinga]

If you are asking if I will do a CBBE compatible version in the future then I guess so, there is a small chance for that to happen.

 

I think I'll just install Clams this weekend and have a look. Maybe it's easier than I expected.

But if it isn't then I won't invest a lot of time into making this compatible, there are other modding projects I have going.

And tbh, as much as I love titties, trying to get them to bounce just right got a bit stale by now. 

 

I won't add support for anything that doesn't have a HDT vagina though, that's for sure.

 

If anyone else wants to do a CBBE conversion, great. Feel free to do so, you can use anything you want from this mod. And I would help you wherever I can of course.

[Bazinga]

Oh and about these other modding projects:

 

This here is the thing I'm working on right now:

HDTSextoys.7z

 

Just activate, load a game and start a Sexlab animation.

Then do the same for "Leito Female Toy Vaginal", which is part of his SLAL animations pack.

Notice something? 

 

So far I only did collisions for this one sextoy animation, more will follow. The one with the soulgem will be next, I already did the xml for that a while back.

 

The script is far from perfect btw, I'm still quite clueless when it comes to this stuff.

It doesn't work when you change the animation after Sexlab started for example. I still have to figure out how to get that trigger ("AnimationChange" as an event doesn't work for some reason, and using it also breaks "AnimationStart"). So if you want to test this then you should probably disable all the female solo animations in the Sexlab MCM (toggle animations) except for "Leito Female Toy Vaginal".

[Guest Momber]

Howdy Bazinga!

Version 3.3 is really great. Thanks so much for continuing to devote your time to this mod for the benefit of us all!

Using MO I made a number of different installations with different options and I'm able to switch between them with only two mouseclicks, which is pretty cool about MO.

 

 

The various options, they're all great. I'm finding lots of positives in each one, depending on the animation that's playing (sometimes even depending on the stage).

So I thought to myself the »Mother of all jiggle mods« would be one that allows us to switch between xmls in-game, on the fly. Kind of like FloppySOS does with its pop-up selection menu [Full Floppy > Medium Arousal > High Arousal > ...]

Is that something that you might consider doing? Can you see the benefit of such a switcher?

I'm only brainstorming here, of course

[Rock&Rule]

I saw this mentioned in another thread and have to say it is very nice. The collisions are working so much better now and the jiggle is quite pleasing.

[Bazinga]

Howdy Bazinga!

Version 3.3 is really great. Thanks so much for continuing to devote your time to this mod for the benefit of us all!

Using MO I made a number of different installations with different options and I'm able to switch between them with only two mouseclicks, which is pretty cool about MO.

 

 

The various options, they're all great. I'm finding lots of positives in each one, depending on the animation that's playing (sometimes even depending on the stage).

So I thought to myself the »Mother of all jiggle mods« would be one that allows us to switch between xmls in-game, on the fly. Kind of like FloppySOS does with its pop-up selection menu [Full Floppy > Medium Arousal > High Arousal > ...]

Is that something that you might consider doing? Can you see the benefit of such a switcher?

I'm only brainstorming here, of course

Sounds like a great idea, but alas I'm really bad at scripting.

And if there's one thing that my attempts showed me so far then that I don't even enjoy it.

 

If anyone else wants to add this feature then just go ahead. I guess it would be best to ask jopie for permission for using his script and then tweak it a bit. Beats me what you have to tweak though.

[Guest Momber]

... I'm really bad at scripting.

And if there's one thing that my attempts showed me so far then that I don't even enjoy it.

Yeah, I believe you lol

No worries. It was just an idea that had entered my head, not a request by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps someone with a lot of scripting experience will read this...

 

[velvetsanity]

Will you be adding support for Leito's SOS addon pack? As far as I can tell, that's the only major one you haven't covered already.

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1847-sos-leito-schlongs-addon/

[The Quick Brown Fox]

After manually adding hdt to meshes from Baddogs Immersive Creatures - SIC Addon, the heads of draugr seem to stretch weirdly. Any idea why that happens? Here is an image of what it looks like: http://picgur.org/afterdark/image/Arl

[The Quick Brown Fox]

After manually adding hdt to meshes from Baddogs Immersive Creatures - SIC Addon, the heads of draugr seem to stretch weirdly. Any idea why that happens? Here is an image of what it looks like: http://picgur.org/afterdark/image/Arl

Nevermind, fixed the problem. For future reference, remember to uncheck "Auto sanitize before save" in nifscope, apparently it breaks the mesh

[Bazinga]

 

After manually adding hdt to meshes from Baddogs Immersive Creatures - SIC Addon, the heads of draugr seem to stretch weirdly. Any idea why that happens? Here is an image of what it looks like: http://picgur.org/afterdark/image/Arl

Nevermind, fixed the problem. For future reference, remember to uncheck "Auto sanitize before save" in nifscope, apparently it breaks the mesh

 

Whelp, this looks creepy and hilarious at the same time. 

 

And for horses I already did it without auto sanitize, didn't know that there are other problems than just texture issues if you keep it activated.

So thanks a bunch, appreciated.

Will keep it in mind for the next Beast HDT version.

 

Will you be adding support for Leito's SOS addon pack? As far as I can tell, that's the only major one you haven't covered already.

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1847-sos-leito-schlongs-addon/

This looks like it's pretty popular so yeah, I'll add support for it ... unless it already works with one of the schlong settings I offer. I'll take a look.

[Bazinga]

So I checked out Leito's Schlong Addon and there isn't anything preventing it from being compatible.

You still have to attach the hdtm.xml to the schlong meshes in that addon of course.

 

Then again the 3 hdtm files I included in my mod all don't exactly fit these schlongs. Smurf Average comes close but the collision box radius is a bit too small for the Leito Addon schlongs.

So I quickly made a new hdtm.xml that should fit better.

And I attached the path to the xml in the meshes.

Here you go:

Leito Schlong Addon Naturalistic xml.7z

 

Just load this after both the Leito Schlong Addon mod and my mod and it should add collisions to these schlongs.

[Guest Momber]

Hello again.

I would like to create an alternate xml that doesn't have hand- or arm breast collision (vag collision should stay on though). Don't get me wrong, it works very well for what it was intented - animations. But for static poses (i. e. Halo's Poser) it's sometimes rather undesirable.

https://i.imgur.com/rKARULk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vyDdwZu.jpg

Can I do that with JFF - without attending college for two semesters first?

I had a look at the JFF interface and it was all Greek to me

[Bazinga]

Hello again.

I would like to create an alternate xml that doesn't have hand- or arm breast collision (vag collision should stay on though). Don't get me wrong, it works very well for what it was intented - animations. But for static poses (i. e. Halo's Poser) it's sometimes rather undesirable.

https://i.imgur.com/rKARULk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vyDdwZu.jpg

Can I do that with JFF - without attending college for two semesters first?

I had a look at the JFF interface and it was all Greek to me

That shouldn't be a problem, in fact you can do it in a few seconds.

 

Just do the following:

Open the hdtvagina.xml (that's the one with the forearm and finger collision boxes) with JFF v4 and in the Rigidbodies tab doubleclick

NPC LForearm. At the lower end of the window that popped up in the field named Collisions you have to check box 3. If you don't want forearm - butt collision either then check box 2 too. Then click Ok.

Now repeat the same for NPC RForearm.

Then click SaveAs and overwrite the hdtvagina.xml.

The finger collision boxes shouldn't do that much harm on poses like that (the boxes are smaller and don't have as much impact) but if you want you can deactivate these collisions too of course.

 

Another option would be to reduce the collision box radius for forearms btw. You can find that setting by clicking hkpCapsuleShape in the Collisions field I just pointed you to. Reduce the radius to 6 or so, maybe that already helps with these poses. And you'd still have collisions.

You probably should set the Z value for Vertex 2 (same popup window as the radius) from 17 to 20 though, since reducing the radius also reduces the length for capsule-shaped collision boxes.

The only drawback is that the pussy won't open as much as it should on fisting animations but I guess it's better than just deactivating the collisions completely.