Need help with neck gap - TroubleMakers Clothing

[bjornk]

I have recently noticed that wearing Tavern Clothes causes a neck gap as in the screenshot below.

 

 

In fact, all clothes from TroubleMakers Clothing mod cause the same gap to appear. Not only that, but several other clothing mods that are patched with UNPB meshes of MrTroubleMaker (such as Misfit Mage UNP by brokefoot) also have the same gap. I use UNPB MTM BBP body from TroubleMakers Clothing mod and the naked body doesn't have the gap.

 

I must admit that I have only recently noticed this gap, maybe it wasn't there before. Does any one else have this problem, or know about it? It looks like a gap caused by either the body (armor) mesh or the head mesh. I couldn't figure out what it is.

 

PS. I have two mods that modify the body mesh of Tavern Clothes, Exeter's UNP armors and TroubleMakers Clothing Replacers UNPB - BBP which overwrites Exeter's mesh. Exeter's mesh (which is also UNPB) doesn't have the gap.

[bjornk]

Does anyone else here use MrTroubleMaker's clothing mods and/or his UNPB patches for other mods?

[Arhon]

Sorry friend, i only use CBBE and vanilla (Rather i have 2 profiles in MO, 1 being CBBE and other being vanilla)

 

I have UNP too but i rarely use it (like 1% of the time) been a long time so cant help on this.

 

That said if are you using UNP or UNPB ? some UNPB have neck/hand/feet seam if you use UNP.

[BringtheNoise]

The head mesh stays constant for your character. The body mesh however, changes with each outfit that fits into slot 32.

 

You are seeing one of 2 likely problems.

 

First one (and the easiest) is clavicle bone weight painting touching the neck seam on the body mesh in the outfit.

If you look at the neck area of the UUNP, and CBBE bodies in outfit studio... you will see the clavicle bones do not touch that seam (they come up to one vertex ring out from the neck seam and stop. That area should not be blue or green (and definitely not red) with the clavicle bone weights (left and right).

If the mesh you are using has that bone painted up to the seam then it will distort the seam, in any walking animation, head moving animation, or anything where the shoulders or head need to move.

You can remove the weight painting CLEAN UP the weight painting in outfit studio by loading the outfit as an outfit. Highlight the body in the outfit, then switch to the bone list and find the "NPC L Clavicle" and "NPC R Clavicle" bones and one at a time have one bone highlighted then set the brush to a very small size, hold down the alt key and click and drag on the seam (do this until the weight has been removed from the seam, then do the other bone).

 

 

The Other option is the mesh is actually out of shape... which is more of a pain in the ass to fix, but can be done in outfit studio as well....

 

How to Fix a mesh that is out of shape at the seams (neck, wrist, and/or ankle).

 

If you have found a UNPB mesh from the same author that does not have a neck seam gap... you might be able to use it to fix the error (it will depend on the vertex cound and vertex order).

 

1. In outfit Studio load the version that does not have a gap as an outfit.

2. Find the body in the mesh list and export shape as object.

3. Load one of the outfits that has neck issues as an outfit and find the mesh that is the body (need to know the mesh name).

4. Load the same outfit as a reference (in the mesh list choose the body, which you found the name for in step 3).

5. With the Reference mesh highlighted, create a new slider.

6. Edit slider, and at the top click on slider, then go down to import data, data from object, choose the object you made in step 2.

-----If the Vertex count, and Vertex order are the same between the 2 meshes the reference shape will take on the adjusted form (ie fix the neck)----- How ever if the Vertex Order is not the same, the reference shape will become a mess...

 

If step 6 works correctlly, then you can set the slider back to normal mode at 0, then go under slider at the top and hit "conform to all" (this will conform all of the meshes in the outfit to the slider), then Flip the slider to 100 and go back under sliders at the top and hit the "Set Base Shape". Now the neck game should be resolved.

 

Note: you will have to do this for both the 0 and 1 nifs for each outfit (regardless if its just a weight painting or if its a messed up mesh).

Me I usually will just convert the armor back into a cbbe shape, then delete the body in the outfit. Load up UUNP HDT as a reference Dup the UUNP body into the outfit. Take that nif and run it thru mesh rigger (as the target with uunp hdt as the reference) to get the bone weights done correctly for the mesh. Then once mesh rigger is thru I'll load the output file from mesh rigger in outfit studio (again with UUNP HDT as the reference and conform to all then find the 0 and 1 shape I want the outfit in... set the low to 100 and export nif name it outfitname_0.nif, then set the low slider back to 0 and set the high slider to 100 and export nif and name it outfitname_1.nif)... then I have a HDT version of the outfit with no seam issues (oh and while the sliders are at 100 I check for clipping).....

 

 

Oh I think I might be rambling again... that happens after I've been up for over 20 hours (something about either to much or not enough caffeeeeeeene).

 

 

 

EDIT... pulled the meshes... did a quick peak.... and it is... duh duh duh....

 

Clavicle Bones... Hell I'm betting that if I took a look at the other bones there would be some other small issues here and there as well....

 

In the image you see how the blue bit keep touching the neck seam... they shouldn't and that it what is causing your issue.

[bjornk]

@BringtheNoise: I really appreciate the instructions but I'd rather get rid of the mod instead of fixing somebody else's broken shit. I'm just trying to figure out what the problem is. It seems every mod (body mesh) that I have patched with MrTroubleMaker's UNPB BBP meshes have this problem. Just noticed Osare Hotpants have the same gap (also patched with TroubleMaker's UNBP BBP meshes). But why isn't there anyone else who had the same issue?

[BringtheNoise]

Couldn't see the response cause I was editing my post....doh yeah just use Guk's UUNP Minidress set and get some HDT and short skirt tavern wench action

 

Why people sometimes miss the issue is if they don't use things like Realistic Idle, Life Like Idle, and/or Sex Idle... The rest of the time they are look at the ass of there character and don't see the slight neck seam..... Ignorance is bliss.

[bjornk]

 

EDIT... pulled the meshes... did a quick peak.... and it is... duh duh duh....

Clavicle Weight needs Cleaning.jpg

 

Clavicle Bones... Hell I'm betting that if I took a look at the other bones there would be some other small issues here and there as well....

 

In the image you see how the blue bit keep touching the neck seam... they shouldn't and that it what is causing your issue.

 

Could you double check that with these please? I hope that's not the problem with these meshes because otherwise it means that it's time to reinstall every goddamn clothing mod I have.

 

Why I haven't noticed that before, that's actually what I'm worried about.

[BringtheNoise]

You don't need to redo all the mods.

You just need to find version of the MESHES/NIFS with Good Weight Painting.

 

On and the Hot Pants top is the same...who ever was doing the weight painting didn't do a clean up on bones.... damn I really should see if the forearm bone is touching the wrist seam.

 

 

Now what it looks like on the UUNP HDT neck seam (note shape of the outfit is UNPB Chapi, which is slightly larger and droopier breasts then regular UNPB).

 

The Author of the mesh updates did not do a clean up on the seams after the added the extra bones to the outfit. It used to happen more often then not.

[bjornk]

I don't think I'm skilled enough to redo the weight painting but I may be able to transfer the weights for those bones from another mesh that doesn't have the gap. Would that be enough?

[yatol]

I don't think I'm skilled enough to redo the weight painting but I may be able to transfer the weights for those bones from another mesh that doesn't have the gap. Would that be enough?

 

why make things simple, when you can make them complicated?

just replace the body with another one...

 

of course they know the problem

their solution is to taunt the problems of the other bodies^^

pushup.7z

[bjornk]

I think the first step is to avoid anything made by MrTroubleMaker and go back to UNP and undo every mesh replacement I did when switching from UNP to UNPB.

 

But then what? The reason I switched to UNPB was to get the bounce and I'd rather not go back to "no-bounce". I have BodySlide installed but have no familiarity with UUNP bodies and compatible clothing/armor mods.

 

Shit, it looks like a massive amount of work...

 

 

[bjornk]

Just downloaded the newest version of his bodies which comes with, not surprisingly, a head mesh. The gap disappears when you use it, I mean the new head mesh. Guess he's aware of the issue, though probably not brave enough to admit it.

 

Never mind, I thought the new head mesh has fixed the issue but that's not really the case.

[Arhon]

I think the first step is to avoid anything made by MrTroubleMaker and go back to UNP and undo every mesh replacement I did when switching from UNP to UNPB.

 

But then what? The reason I switched to UNPB was to get the bounce and I'd rather not go back to "no-bounce". I have BodySlide installed but have no familiarity with UUNP bodies and compatible clothing/armor mods.

 

Shit, it looks like a massive amount of work...

 

I am fairly sure you can get bounce on UNP too right?

[bjornk]

As BringtheNoise instructed above, I've cleaned up the blue weight paint bits near the seam (though, I think I should have been more generous with the erasing brush), here's the result...

 

 

So looks like he's right about the weight paint issue. Funny thing is, I downloaded the "no bounce" version of the mesh hoping to avoid weight paint all together, but it turned out, that version also had excessive weight paint near the gap.

 

Well, I have no intention to manually clean up all the meshes so I'm going to ditch all the "troublesome" meshes of MrTroubleMaker.

 

 

 

[yatol]

 

Never mind, I thought the new head mesh has fixed the issue but that's not really the case.

 

new head mesh? what are you talking about?

 

 

well... that body wasn't the only one that was edited like that

don't remember if that's unp top model, or slim, or whatever (no longer use that so those weights no longer bother me)

 

 

 

 

[bjornk]

new head mesh? what are you talking about?

There's a new head mesh in his new body package. Did a bit of testing with it, but didn't make any difference.

 

So he admits that his clothing meshes are bugged, then why keep them there without any notification about the neck gap issue? I mean, that should be more of an issue for people than slightly smaller breasts, right? RIGHT!?

 

When I switched to UNPB, I patched most of my UNP clothing & armor with UNPB BBP mesh patches from various mod authors. I've now realized that almost all of them have this issue (I really should have noticed this before!). Here's a small list of the ones with the neck gap:

• TroubleMaker's Clothing Craftable (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker
• TroubleMakers Clothing Replacers (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker
• Brokefoot UNP Mashup Compilation (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker (for the Mashup and Temptress Race clothing)
• West Wind Combat Series - Misfit Mage - Conversion (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker
• Osare HotPants by anano Conversion (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker
• Ashara Princess of the Woods (UNPB BBP) by b3lisario
• Osare Maid Outfit (UNPB BBP) by b3lisario
• Osare GothicLolita (UNPB BBP) by b3lisario

PS. BTW, MrTroubleMaker's new bodies (the MTM ones) indeed don't have this issue, but there's really no point in using UNPB without matching clothes that are not bugged.

 

I am fairly sure you can get bounce on UNP too right?

Not sure. I did a small experiment with BodySlide last night, mind you, that's a program I'm not really familiar with. I created the body, hand and feet meshes for UNP HDT using BodySlide and those seemed to have bounce. I need a bit more experimenting with the program, I think.

[bjornk]

Experimenting with standard UNP. I can still see some shimmering when I look across the neck.

[bjornk]

Experimenting with standard UNP. I can still see some shimmering when I look across the neck.

 

 

With the vanilla body you almost never see these stitches, but UNP, UNPB and CBBE bodies all have the same problem. 

[Arhon]

 

Experimenting with standard UNP. I can still see some shimmering when I look across the neck.

 

 

With the vanilla body you almost never see these stitches, but UNP, UNPB and CBBE bodies all have the same problem. 

 

 

That's true. I have some seams on the feet and hands on my CBBE (naked without armors) and still wondering how the hell do I fix them.. really tried a lot and still trying but gonna take a break from that for a while T_T.

[yatol]

 

With the vanilla body you almost never see these stitches, but UNP, UNPB and CBBE bodies all have the same problem. 

 

 

i use unp and unpb, and i don't have any neck gap

 

 

 

 

 

old screen with unp top model or another variation, here there's one, there's a seam between body and head, hands and feets too

less old screen with unp, no more gap

that's because the weights that are also on the head (or hand or feet) should not be mess with (unless you edit head, hand or feet too)

parts near another body parts shouldn't be mess with either

 

don't have that problem with my v4 with skyrim head

easy to see the jaw seam, but that's the references i use to weight something, when the body move, the head follow

pcpl tbbp mesh create gaps too

here, that's the no tbbp mesh, with tbbp copy paste onto it (there's no neck seam because it's a jaw seam now)

 

 

 

[bjornk]

Tested it with both the vanilla and the ECE head mesh and with standard UNP, MTM & REDUX UNPB, and standard CBBE. All had those visible stitches when looked across at a certain angle, especially in sneak mode where the neck is stretched quite a bit. If you don't have that gap then maybe it's because your head mesh is different than the ones I used.

 

Also keep in mind that ENB, anti-aliasing and other types of post-processing may hide those little holes in the neck. Even screen resolution and display ratio might make a difference.

 

Could you upload the mesh set you use that is without any gap? I'd like to test them in my game.

[bjornk]

Well, I have no intention to manually clean up all the meshes so I'm going to ditch all the "troublesome" meshes of MrTroubleMaker.

I wasn't going to do it but I did. It was a very tedious work as you can imagine. I've cleaned up the meshes (clavical bones and both forearms) for the following mods, I'll upload it here if anyone's interested.

 

TroubleMaker's Clothing Craftable (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker

TroubleMakers Clothing Replacers (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker

Brokefoot UNP Mashup Compilation (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker (for the Mashup and Temptress Race clothing)

West Wind Combat Series - Misfit Mage - Conversion (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker

Osare HotPants by anano Conversion (UNPB BBP) by MrTroubleMaker

 

 

When I cleaned up the excessive weight paint on b3lisario's meshes (the ones below) and saved them, I ended up with a scaled down meshes (the in-game armor/body mesh was way smaller than it's supposed to) for some reason so had to ditch them.

 

Ashara Princess of the Woods (UNPB BBP) by b3lisario

Osare Maid Outfit (UNPB BBP) by b3lisario

Osare GothicLolita (UNPB BBP) by b3lisario