[DOA5LR] Timmy's Private Stash, Tips & Tools - UPDATE(11/21/18): Kinky Overalls

[timmyc]

While taking care of problems surrounding Marie, I had completely forgotten to test the other end of the spectrum.    I bring yet another bug fix update to bring the version to  0.2.4b.

 

Change Log
V0.2.4b
- Corrected some abnormal normal vectors around reference Honoka model.  Transformations to and from Honoka should yeild better results now.
 

 

Recently I received reports of strange shadows under Honoka's boobs and I was able to verify that it was indeed messed up.  After fixing up her normal vectors, all is well again.

 

This model closely resembles the one Saaf and I released a while back which should please Honoka fans.

 

Updated tool & sample ref files can be found here http://www.loverslab...lena/?p=1460252

 

[timmyc]

With the fix to Honoka, I plan on updating the reference files to a new set.  I will be uploading it in a short while.

 

 

Updated the LOD test ref sample pack for Kasumi, Ayane and Phase4 here to version 2.  The updated pack can also be downloaded from the tool post.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/x6t7olhewoffq1q/LOD_TestPack_V2.zip

[201193]

Thx for the update, and looking forward to the next ref model pack.

Freat work.

keep it up Timmy

 

[pringles89]

I was testing LOD Phase 4 sample with latest version with auto bone/collision, skin patcher, sf 95

 

somehow it turned out with big hole, so figured i'd ask the expert

 

 

[Mikkukan]

is there a way to make these costumes into HL files of the original?  I think I have seen people done it.  The free slots are becoming a scarce.

[timmyc]

I was testing LOD Phase 4 sample with latest version with auto bone/collision, skin patcher, sf 95

 

somehow it turned out with big hole, so figured i'd ask the expert

 

 

Thanks for the report. 

 

I just did a few quick tests using similarly mostly naked models, and they turned out alright.  I wonder if it has to do with your source model?    Does the same issue happen with other models?

 

If Phase4 is giving you issues, perhaps you could try Ayane and Kasumi (they are in fact the exact same model).

 

edit: I got a hold of the model "Lisa Shackle by Cyric" and found that there is indeed a hole in the middle for some reason with normal transformation.   For the moment you can use the "adaptive" mode which will get rid of this problem while I look into it. 

 

edit2: This problem is really interesting.  It seems like the issue goes away if I lower the SF to 50.  Perhaps the high smoothness value here is causing some deformation that is otherwise not visible to us. (ie some objects may be hidden using transparency) which explains why some parts of the skin appear to "sink" at a high value since higher value means bringing all objects in closer together which may cause a bit of overlap like this.  

[timmyc]

is there a way to make these costumes into HL files of the original?  I think I have seen people done it.  The free slots are becoming a scarce.

 

 

If you mean using these costumes to replace the originals you can look into Ink Reshuffle and Archive Tool.  They are the best way to replace costumes now since we're all running out of slots.

[timmyc]

 

 

 

I was talking about costume toggles where you can fit 4 costumes into one slot, instead of having 4 panties we get 4 costumes in those HL slots.  I have seen someone done it but not sure how.  An indepth tutorial would be nice.

 

 

 

I've heard of this trick somewhere as well, but I am afraid I have not actually tried it myself, so I can't be of much help here.

[pringles89]

 

Thanks for the report. 

 

I just did a few quick tests using similarly mostly naked models, and they turned out alright.  I wonder if it has to do with your source model?    Does the same issue happen with other models?

 

If Phase4 is giving you issues, perhaps you could try Ayane and Kasumi (they are in fact the exact same model).

 

edit: I got a hold of the model "Lisa Shackle by Cyric" and found that there is indeed a hole in the middle for some reason with normal transformation.   For the moment you can use the "adaptive" mode which will get rid of this problem while I look into it. 

 

edit2: This problem is really interesting.  It seems like the issue goes away if I lower the SF to 50.  Perhaps the high smoothness value here is causing some deformation that is otherwise not visible to us. (ie some objects may be hidden using transparency) which explains why some parts of the skin appear to "sink" at a high value since higher value means bringing all objects in closer together which may cause a bit of overlap like this.  

 

 

thanks for the detailed troubleshooting/testing and explanation timmyc!  that makes sense.

i lowered sf to 50 and everything looks good for both ayane and phase4 LOD reference.

 

[timmyc]

Thanks to Pringles89 report about strange normal vectors in the mid section in the transformation result from Lisa to Honoka (and similar models).  I decided to dig a little deeper into this and found that there may be an issue with the normal vectors on the model itself.

 

As such I've decided to clean up the model a bit more in hopes to combat this situation.

 

V0.2.4c
- Corrected incorrect normal vectors around mid section after transforming to Honoka with a very high SF value.


So I started out examining the Lisa model in question and found that there's a bit of an oddity in the mid section.  This is very normal as those are "unreferenced vertices" found in earlier nude models by Harry and I suspect that they can some times screw up transformation results at high SF level.

 

The strange object inside is not visible normally but the tool can see them which could potentially lead to strange transformation outcome when a very high number of samples (high Smoothness value) is taken per vertex to smooth out the model.

 

I've also noticed a bit of a gap on this model in between the breasts which (thankfully) is not related to my transformation algorithm.   Somehow the tool appears to be able to repair some of these gaps as a side bonus   (the last picture is to Marie with adaptive which has no gap)

 

This strange midsection issue has been corrected for transformation between anyone to Honoka at very high level of smoothness, but it still seems to persist on the LOD custom reference models. 

 

As such, I would recommend using a more moderate SF level on the LOD custom reference models as higher smoothness level is more likely to attract "noise" which would usually lead to degradation of the final transformation outcome, or adaptive mode, which should result in no mid section anomalies.

 

 

The tool has been updated to 0.2.4c with the corrected Honoka model.

 

Updated tool can be found here http://www.loverslab...lena/?p=1460252

[timmyc]

This strange mid section problem is interesting.  I've tried to go from the same Lisa Shackle model to all other girls @SF100 without any mid section weirdness, but it seems like the moment I use my LOD model (which is based on Honoka), the midsection loses its correct normal values at high SF level.

 

At least the tool is functional for all characters and for LODs within reasonably high SF.

 

Another way to fix it is to resort to my converter tool again.  Since I isolated the issue to broken normal vectors, my converter is well suited to this task!

 

 

If you absolutely love very high SF and are bothered by this weird midsection whackiness, you can drop the transformed TMC onto my converter tool.  This is the perfect chance to shamelessly advertise my other tool

 

Make sure you have the same selection as pictured below (but change the neck fixing target to the character you transformed to)

Be very certain to uncheck "Copy Vertex Positions" "Copy Normal Vectors" "Copy Texture Coord" and check all of the options as shown.    Also, be certain to select the TMC object group that you need normal vectors repaired.  In this case, it's the body group.   The Seam Smoothing value usually works fine with the value I set it at, but you can play with it and see what you like, or lower it a bit if you still see seams afterward.

 

Hit "IMPORT" and the normals should now be repaired.

 

Verify the result -

As shown in the picture above, the recompute normal "fixed" the broken normals that I "masked" under Honoka's boobs, so there is a little bit weird shadowing going on, but I think it's not a major game breaking issue as most models, even official ones, have weird normal vectors in the underboob area.

 

Butt crack is perfectly preserved even after seam smoothing (butt cracks are especially challenging in seam smoothing as they are made up of many many overlapping vertices which constitute as a "seam"), but finger nails can be a tiny bit off.  Nothing major though.

 

There you have it!  Another magic use of my converter tool   Even when you don't need to be editing any vertices in TMCs, the "TMC Post Processing" functionality can come in handy.

[pringles89]

thank you for the graphic and detailed explanation of another use for the converter tool!  i had not thought to use tool before since i had not been working with any obj files.

[timmyc]

thank you for the graphic and detailed explanation of another use for the converter tool!  i had not thought to use tool before since i had not been working with any obj files.

 

I hope to bring more awareness of what the converter can do, and I think this is one of the perfect examples the converter is great for.   Thanks to your diligent testing and report, i would never have caught this issue myself

 

Perhaps I can finally get some quality game time in or pop in a movie today with all these bug fixes out of the way, lol!

 

Time to put my babies to good use!? :bush:

 

 

 

 

[pringles89]

 

I hope to bring more awareness of what the converter can do, and I think this is one of the perfect examples the converter is great for.   Thanks to your diligent testing and report, i would never have caught this issue myself

 

Perhaps I can finally get some quality game time in or pop in a movie today with all these bug fixes out of the way, lol!

 

 

glad i could be of help.  hope you enjoy some leisure time this weekend!

 

[timmyc]

I have received a few reports from DigitalCookie about my converter 0.4.0a pumping out starfishes after the latest update.   I've decided to spend a little time on looking at why it is happening, and finally found the root cause.

 

Today I bring you an update that I think solves all of the conversion problem caused by the tool in previous versions.  

 

Change log
V0.4.1
- Corrected most of the conversion issues in regards to indexing problem for unreferenced vertices.   The tool now looks at the actual vertex buffer in the TMC instead of the reported vertices based on the object information, which could be zero'd out if objects are removed using popular TMC modding tools.

 

The issue with these star fish symptoms is basically caused by a few things.  Before the overhaul, the converter relies on accurate reports of TMC Object information such as the number of vertices this object group has, where it starts and ends and so on and so forth, which is why it works reliably well for most official models.

 

The issue with most of the custom models is that, using tools such as Polygon Tool, the deletion of an object could mark the number of vertices as zero or it could simply remove some of the extra vertices from being referenced in the index buffer (such as Harry's method of creating the very first set of nude meshes, which is the result of tremendous manual labor since there was no freedom of simply deleting vertices back in the days).   All of these issues could mislead my converter into reading things that it should not be reading.  

 

As such, I've decided to re-write my parsing code to taken into account such problems and the result is a problem-free conversion (I hope!) for most models now.

 

A few examples of what I broke and fixed.

The tool used to have issues with most high polygon models since the object info reports incorrect number of vertices (for instance, body group still reports ~6k when there are actually over 20k).  This has been fixed.

 

Saaf's custom Irene model gave my tool a hard time too.  Now it has been fixed!

 

I even broke my own nude mesh, lol. 

 

Lastly, my own nude mesh was not the only thing I broke, but all is well now

 

 

The converter now offers a suite of features such as automatic normal vector management, UV editing.  It also offers post processing functionalities such as repairing broken normal vectors by completely recomputing them from scratch, repairing seams and fixing neck vertices.  It is now a one-stop convenient mesh editing tool.

 

Updated tool can be found here http://www.loverslab.com/topic/50997-doa5lr-timmys-private-stash-updated-101015/?p=1346825

 

 

[timmyc]

I'd like to add a bit to the converter tool that, if you are editing an OBJ exported from the tool, you should just use "Copy Normal Vectors" when importing OBJ back into TMC since the editing software such as 3ds max can correct and update normal vectors for you in OBJ format and the tool will be able to put all the right normal vectors back into TMC.

 

The post processing functionalities such as seam smoothing and recompute normal vectors should only be used if you have broken normals and/or seams.  The auto correct neck vertices can be used if you are not sure if the model you are working on has the correct neck vertices for your character.

[timmyc]

Immediately after I released an update to my converter, I received feedback on some issues with Seam Smoothing functionality (that probably only a handful of people are using, lol).

 

Just when I was feeling pretty good about my last update to the converter bug, I had to head back to bug fixing mode again.  This time, I think, that the last of the problem is now fixed. (I hope!)

 

Change log
V0.4.2
- Corrected the seam smoothing functionality where finger nail normals would be corrupted with a low value for the radin dropdown box.
 

 

So, seam smoothing is an interesting problem.   A lot of what can be considered "seams" on a model are not really seams.  For instance, for the sake of my title, butt crack is a perfect example.  Butt cracks are made up of many many overlapping vertices, but they are not technically a seam as it should be a somewhat visible division between the left and right butt cheeks.    Another issue is that a lot of double sided objects have overlapping vertices as well, but they are not really seams either as the other side of the vertices point in a completely different way.  

 

To combat this situation, a bit of simple vector math is needed to prevent smoothing the wrong seams.

 

First of all, I'd like to go over the new controls in a bit more details

 

The new group "TMC Post Processing" controls can be used without loading any OBJ files.  However, if using the controls without OBJ file, please be very certain to uncheck "Copy Vertex Positions," "Copy Normal Vectors" and "Copy Texture Coord" boxes as the tool would throw an error if no OBJ file has been loaded and IMPORT button is hit.

 

First, the "Recompute Normal Vector" functionality -

This can be used to repair broken normal vectors that sometimes can result from editing software not keeping the correct normals, or can be from my transformer tool that messes up mid section normal.  It can be caused by a number of things.  It used to be that if the normal is broken, you have to kind of start over.  Now it is no longer the case!

 

With this functionality, normal vectors can be recalculated from scratch to the faithful official version as shown below

 

Why are there seams you ask?  They are there because of the way the model is made up.  It consists of a few separate pieces that come together to make one model, which is why the joining sides create visible seams, which brings me to the next functionality

 

"Seam Smoothing for Overlapping Veritices With an Angle Less than <selection> Radian" functionality is designed especially to combat this situation.

To remove the seams, be sure you select the correct group under "TMC Mesh Group" drop down box.

 

In this example I set the value at 0.650 and hit "IMPORT"

 

Now the ugly seam is gone!  Just like that

 

One of the existing issues with seam smoothing is that, when lowering the value to something like 0.600 to get rid of most of the seams on the body, it can inadvertently affect areas such as finger nails which are considered "Two sided" (there's another small piece on the back side that is almost impossible to spot).  This issue has been addressed.

 

 

I'd like to go over the effect of the seam smoothing value with a few examples - butt cracks are the best examples

 

There is a little bit of a seam on her hand with 0.800

Lower it a bit to 0.650 to get rid of the seam

 

I think effect is more prominently seen on one of the most important areas on the body :bush:

With the new update, lowering the value does not affect the butt crack "sharpness" all that much unless the value is lowered quite dramatically to something like 0.100.

 

Marie's DLC001 is one of the perfect examples of how double sided objects could really mess up my old algorithm

 

Updated tool can be found here http://www.loverslab...1015/?p=1346825

 

 

 

 

[timmyc]

I'd like to mention that my converter tool can be used to easily fix the transformed models (made by transformer tool) if you don't like how the "approximated normal vectors" turn out on the transformed model.

 

I can incorporate the whole recompute normal vector feature in the transformer, but I think that is a bit of a waste as the features are easily accessible via my converter tool without having any knowledge of how to create mods or deal with OBJ files.

[SaafRats]

It's always great to see updates on your converter, thank you T.B.

[bimxinh]

Amazing work, thank

[timmyc]

Time for another shameless self promoting post :bush:

 

 

I spent some time messing with my new converter update and found a few good uses for it.

 

Modding tools have been advancing at such rapid pace most people have already forgotten how difficult it used to be to make just a nude mesh.   

 

Take the first nude Honoka by Saaf and I for example.   This mod easily represents weeks of hard manual labor.

 

For the longest time, we had issues with cleavage normal vector problems and overall seam issues.   Since at the time we had little in the ways of dealing with normal vectors, and 3DS MAX script for Xbox 360 models could only output vertex positions, I had to find ways to deal with seams and normal vectors in general, which is the reason why seam smoothing functionality exists (people can just easily delete duplicate vertices today, lol)

 

However, in the old version, my seam smoothing can mess up on some very key parts of the model.  For example, below is what the old seam smoothing would do to a model - (butt crack problem was tough to crack :bush:)

I had to manually (and painstakingly) fix the cleavage normals, butt crack and finger nails as you can see they are pretty messed up.  The final product, however, was delivered without such issues

 

Fast forward to 0.4.2 update - using the same settings on the same model with messed up normal vectors:

 

The tool can easily restore the normal vectors to the perfect condition without having to start over or do any of the manual normal vector adjustments that used to be required:

 

Give recompute normal vectors + seam smoothing + neck vertices repair a shot!    I'd love to hear what you guys think about the new functionalities.

 

 

I think having done things the hard way with my own home brew tools has given me a very different perspective on DOA5 modding. 

 

No matter how advanced and easy modding gets, we can't forget that DOA5 is what it is today because some pioneers such as Harry that had to do it the really hard way were generous enough to provide us with excellent base nude models for us to modify and play with. 

 

I'd like to mention that SaafRats has been quietly breaking a lot of fronts with mesh editing to bring us so many awesome Honoka mods.    He was able to deliver Honoka's faithful breast shape without using excessive number of vertices - that alone is an incredible achievement in itself.    We have some quality work right here on LL.   Lola(LGMODS)  has also been learning incredibly fast and giving us some really awesome mods as well.

 

None of these achievements should be overlooked.

 

 

 

[timmyc]

Wow it's awful quiet in my thread lately.  

 

I take it that it's either people are not finding anymore issues with my tools or everyone has all but given up on them, lol.  

[201193]

I believe we are busy creating our own tailored mods to suit our personal tastes.

You have done a great job and I thank you for your contribution to the whole modding community.

and finally,

Rock On !!!! (bushfully)

[LGMODS]

You have done so many update since the beginning, your tools is more and more close to perfection everytime you make an update, always trying to find bug and fix them.

We can also clearly see you are enjoying doing that and it's not a pain to fix something when someone reports bugs, this is the opposite you are not lazy to fix problems and try to do it as fast as you can (did you slept better these days ? )

 

I can't test your news updates for the moment but I will take a look soon and give some feedback, it's great to see you are still working on your Converter Tool too, the butt crack fix will be very enjoyable for a lot of people I guess

 

"No matter how advanced and easy modding gets, we can't forget that DOA5 is what it is today because some pioneers such as Harry that had to do it the really hard way were generous enough to provide us with excellent base nude models for us to modify and play with."

 

Exactly. We can't forget how DOA is today because of all these pioneers that didn't stopped to work on the game with a lot of progress and discovery.

I am greedy of new discovery, new tests, new things and I am sure we didn't saw all possibility in the game yet.

With the recent discovery about poses and animations I am wondering maybe one day we will see some of our favorites chars doing a sexy dance instead of just "yay ! I won ! *static win pose*".. For not mention something more pervert..

 

Talking about past I am feeling nostalgic when I remember how I started to mod DOA.

 

I used uMod for a very long time, doing only re-texture with so many creepy and flashy colors (lol), then used DLC Tool for play with swapping and create some "custom" characters combined to textures, after came Hex Editor my first attempt where I was able to remove some part of costumes with a lot of fails because I was very lost with all these numbers and weird symbols, it was totally new for me.

At this time tutorials was missing, only a few was on internet and you needed to find tips and hints by yourself the most of time, especially if you are someone who work alone and not in team.

When Polygon Tool has been released it was the greatest tool for me at this time, a must have, I was able to say goodbye to Hex Editor for remove a costume mesh !

Then it forced me to start to learn how use Blender, I was a real beginner in 3D edit and I needed a lot of months for learn and understand how use it correctly but it has never been a pain to learn.

I am greedy of experience and knowledge especially in modding and 3D universe. DOA gave me this chance to learn something I was looking for since age.

Your tools came complete all others, making our characters even more beautiful and smooth (you know I love high smoothness !).

 

Anyway, enough talk.

 

Keep your good work Timmy, we are happy to have you here.

 

 

[siframe]

Lol, I'd say when you release the ultimate tool for creating fap fantasies you shouldn't be surprised when everyone slopes off to fap... a great work buddy, now stop staring at numbers and go stop lara falling off snowy cliffs.