Noob Modder: Creating Patch for NPCs in a Mod

[Guest ffabris]

Scenario

I have a player home mod, from Nexus. The mod includes several NPCs. I would like, if possible, to create a patch for the mod, to make simple "cosmetic" changes to the NPCs (eg, change hair from vanilla to Apachii).

 

What I have tried

• Open mod in TES5Edit
• Select 2 of the NPCs
• Rt-click -> Copy as override into...
• Save to a new patch
• Open patch in TES5Edit
• Make simple changes, for testing purposes.
• Save
• Load patch into Skyrim, check NPCs
• Observe: patch has no effect

Since the original mod is an ESP, I then tried changing it to an ESM with TES5Edit edit, then changing the file extension. And then repeating the steps above. Again, the changes made in the resulting patch are simply ignored.

 

I'd prefer to not edit the original mod, since if that's updated, I'd have to make all my changes again. However, I am stumped as to why my patch is being ignored. Clearly I am missing something pretty basic, but I have no idea what. Suggestions very welcome.

 

P.S. I realize that I'll need to open the patch in CK to deal with the grey face issue, but I haven't gotten that far; no point if the patch isn't doing anything.

[Anatriax]

Have you tried creating the patch with CK? That's the way I've always done them, and it's worked fine.

[Swissenergy]

I've got a guide on how to edit NPCs correctly with CK and custom hair. It's mainly for vanilla NPCs, but simply changing the the folder output from Skyrim.esm (and all DLC) to what ever your patch is called should work just fine. (Ex: NewHousePatch.esp)

 

It's a little long but I try to explain most everything out, let me know if it just confuses you or you need help.

How to Change NPC Hair Tutorial.txt

[Guest ffabris]

Have you tried creating the patch with CK? That's the way I've always done them, and it's worked fine.

 

I tied using CK with a different mod, and got the same results. Meaning, the changes are ignored.

 

Added: I need to add that I have an issue with the specific mod I want to work with: it refuses to load in CK, even though it works in game. CK just sits there... I've waited a half hour. So I was hoping I could get a patch started with TES5Edit, by "extracting" the NPCs I want to change, and then finalize with CK to "bake" the FaceGen data.

[Guest ffabris]

I've got a guide on how to edit NPCs correctly with CK and custom hair. It's mainly for vanilla NPCs, but simply changing the the folder output from Skyrim.esm (and all DLC) to what ever your patch is called should work just fine. (Ex: NewHousePatch.esp)

 

It's a little long but I try to explain most everything out, let me know if it just confuses you or you need help.

 

I read it, thanks. :-) I know those steps... just been using TES5Edit for initial testing, to see if it works or not. I know that I need to do the bulk in CK. Problem is, as I said, that even a basic change like change of hair style is being completely ignored.

 

One significant point of difference is that your steps address editing vanilla NPCs, while I am looking to affect NPCs in mods.

[Dillpickle]

The game will only use what is stored in facegendata, so until you re-export this from CK ( highlight NPC -> ctrl f4) to reflect your new hairstyles etc... it won't show up in game.  

[yatol]

I am stumped as to why my patch is being ignored

 

you enter whiterun, ysolda is load, in your save she is ffyyyyyy, a copy of xxyyyyyy

you install btrh, feminine female, npc85, or something else that edit xxyyyyyy

that won't do anything to ffyyyyyy

 

 

[Dubhorizon]

 

 

Since the original mod is an ESP, I then tried changing it to an ESM with TES5Edit edit, then changing the file extension. And then repeating the steps above. Again, the changes made in the resulting patch are simply ignored.

 

What do you mean changing the file extension? You like, renamed it to esm? That's not how to do it.

Open the original mod with Wrye bash, right click on it and choose esmify self. Do not do anything else to it. It will be considered .esm even thought it is .esp. Do not rename it or anything. Then load CK, load the original mod as master, then make a patch and save it.

 

After you are done making the patch then go back to the original mod with Wrye bash and choose espify self. But remember, everytime you want to make changes to your patch, you must esmify the original mod. If you load and save it even one time while the original mod is not esmified, your patch will be zeroed.

[Guest ffabris]

The game will only use what is stored in facegendata, so until you re-export this from CK ( highlight NPC -> ctrl f4) to reflect your new hairstyles etc... it won't show up in game.  

 

Tried that, doesn't work.

Generating the facegen data recreates the face mesh and tint. Not doing it will result in grey face and old face shape. But a changed hair should still be visible. At least based on edits I have made directly to original mods. But I want to avoid doing that.

 

 

I am stumped as to why my patch is being ignored

 

you enter whiterun, ysolda is load, in your save she is ffyyyyyy, a copy of xxyyyyyy

you install btrh, feminine female, npc85, or something else that edit xxyyyyyy

that won't do anything to ffyyyyyy

 

 

Agreed.

However, in testing, I am working with a save that never had the mod (and therefore the NPCs) loaded. I know that once an NPC is instanced, changes won't appear.

 

 

Since the original mod is an ESP, I then tried changing it to an ESM with TES5Edit edit, then changing the file extension. And then repeating the steps above. Again, the changes made in the resulting patch are simply ignored.

 

What do you mean changing the file extension? You like, renamed it to esm? That's not how to do it.

Open the original mod with Wrye bash, right click on it and choose esmify self. Do not do anything else to it. It will be considered .esm even thought it is .esp. Do not rename it or anything. Then load CK, load the original mod as master, then make a patch and save it.

 

 

I convert from ESP to ESM using TES5Edit - does the same thing. Or should, anyway.

[Swissenergy]

Ok, just wrote a new guide for custom mods. Very similar to the previous one, walks through each step but more editing custom NPCs instead of vanilla Skyrim ones. It's a "general" guide, which is why some of the baby steps are there, but it should be able to help you. At least I hope so!

How to Edit Custom NPCs.txt

[Guest ffabris]

Ok, just wrote a new guide for custom mods. Very similar to the previous one, walks through each step but more editing custom NPCs instead of vanilla Skyrim ones. It's a "general" guide, which is why some of the baby steps are there, but it should be able to help you. At least I hope so!

 

 

Thanks for that - much appreciated!

 

That is essentially what I have been doing, with one difference (that I have spotted so far):

 

-Click the "File Header" category and find the section called "Master Files". You should see all required master files of JK's Morthal Hair Patch.

-Right-click on the FIRST line called "Master Files" and you should have small list come up with an "add" option.

-Click the "add" option and a empty line will be added to the master files. Click the empty line just above the all "0's" line until you get a cursor that allows you to type.

-Character for Character type the name of the hair mod you want to use. (Ex: ApachiiHair.esm) PLEASE NOTE!! If you're using multiple hair mods, only add ONE MOD PER LINE. IF you want to add more, just repeat this process again for each one.

What I do instead is rt-click the mod name on the left, and select Add Masters. That should be the same thing - no?

 

Side note: I don't use a mod manager - none of them work on linux.

 

Anyway, I'll give this another shot later. Since I am testing to see if changes stick, my plan for that is to simply change sex on a few NPCs, to see if that change is picked up. (Besides, that is part of my ultimate goal for this mod.) And again, since this is for testing only, at this point, I can skip all the facegen stuff entirely, I think, right? Just to see if I can turn Grace into Carl.

[Swissenergy]

As long as TES5Edit shows the mods you've added as a master file under the the Master Files section, it's been added. If it works in a little different way, great! I've only used the one method before so, as long as the end results are the same, use whichever method works for you!

 

I haven't tried doing a sex change with NPCs, so I've got no idea if that'll cause issues or not. I'm guessing there's probably a correct and incorrect way to make a sex change with an NPC in the CK, but I haven't ever tried it myself no I don't know if there are specific steps to making that work. 

 

If you do change the sex of the NPC only, I'd still export facegendata that reflect the actors changes to their head. If you do export the facegendata, I'd still find those loose files and add them by either moving them to the original mod if you're using that for editing, and overwrite the original mod files. Or, do the method of creating a new folder/plugin with the same folder path as the original mod and place the loose files there.

 

You could try once without exporting, then once with exporting to see if it makes a difference. Again, altering hair I have done, changing the sex of NPCs I have not so I've got no idea what will happen. Perhaps someone else here has tried doing that and can share their results with you. 

[Guest ffabris]

As long as TES5Edit shows the mods you've added as a master file under the the Master Files section, it's been added. If it works in a little different way, great! I've only used the one method before so, as long as the end results are the same, use whichever method works for you!

OK, adding masters either way gives the same result - just tested that.

 

I haven't tried doing a sex change with NPCs, so I've got no idea if that'll cause issues or not. I'm guessing there's probably a correct and incorrect way to make a sex change with an NPC in the CK, but I haven't ever tried it myself no I don't know if there are specific steps to making that work. 

 

If you do change the sex of the NPC only, I'd still export facegendata that reflect the actors changes to their head. If you do export the facegendata, I'd still find those loose files and add them by either moving them to the original mod if you're using that for editing, and overwrite the original mod files. Or, do the method of creating a new folder/plugin with the same folder path as the original mod and place the loose files there.

 

You could try once without exporting, then once with exporting to see if it makes a difference. Again, altering hair I have done, changing the sex of NPCs I have not so I've got no idea what will happen. Perhaps someone else here has tried doing that and can share their results with you.

Sex change works too: to make female to male, uncheck Female under Traits, and change the voice to something male. Also tested. And it seems to work.

 

In short, this test worked! What's different from before? Well, in short, yatol was right. I was doing tests with a game with the mod in it - I had just never visited the location. This time, I started with a totally new game. I confess I'm surprised ... I expected the patch would work as long as I had never seen the NPCs in-game. Apparently that assumption was incorrect. [facepalm] OK, I have learned something new, so that's positive.

 

Two things re: your text file.

• Assuming the original mod is called original.esp, and the patch is called patch.esp: when creating the facegen data, you say that the files are placed in the patch.esp folder. When I did it (I had the patch.esp as active in CK), the facegen files were placed in the original master folder. In other words, they were written to original.esp.
• You say not to save changes to patch.esp until after exporting facegen data. Could you give a clue as to why? (Not arguing what you said, I'd just like to understand.)

Now... off to do my edits!

[Guest ffabris]

I wanted to say thank you to all who took the time to answer and offer help. Plus I realize I was wrong in a few of the replies I gave, for which I sincerely apologise.

 

Thanks so much again!

[Swissenergy]

No, let me apologize. I just went back through the steps of the process and it didn't work as it had before. I'm now guessing I must have actually done something differently than what I wrote because I am not able to get this work now. My fault, I screwed up. 

 

After trying over and over again, the best method and most reliable method, is actually installing a second version of the original mod and then edit the NPCs in the CK with that mod as the active file. Just don't worry about a patch, having a second version that you use is by far the best way to go for the best and most reliable results. As long as you keep another copy of the entire mod somewhere safe, I recommend just using a second version as your test version.

 

[Guest ffabris]

No, let me apologize. I just went back through the steps of the process and it didn't work as it had before. I'm now guessing I must have actually done something differently than what I wrote because I am not able to get this work now. My fault, I screwed up. 

 

After trying over and over again, the best method and most reliable method, is actually installing a second version of the original mod and then edit the NPCs in the CK with that mod as the active file. Just don't worry about a patch, having a second version that you use is by far the best way to go for the best and most reliable results. As long as you keep another copy of the entire mod somewhere safe, I recommend just using a second version as your test version.

 

Well, I kinda followed your steps. But jumping back and forth between CK and TES5Edit, somewhat, since (a) I find some things easier in TES5Edit, more intuitive I guess, but ( TES5Edit seems to explode when doing some things - plus you have to use CK for FaceGen.

 

Hum, I never even considered using a second copy. Interesting idea! But with the specific mod, for reason I do not understand, it refuses to load in CK if I try to edit it directly (ie, set as active). However, it loads fine as a master for a patch. How odd!

 

Anyway, I tested on two NPCs, and they both worked fine with a patch. The only thing I did extra, with respect to your steps, was flag the original mod as an ESM in the header. Plsu there was the difference that FaceGen data is exported to the original mod's folders, not the patch. But that's trivial to deal with.

 

Oh, in case anyone was curious, I was trying to mod Blackthorn. I made all the adult NPCs male, changed hair, then added Sexlab Arounded so I could force orientation, etc ... ;-)