splat_phastkyl Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 So, I've started to experience a CTD while in Bravil and/or Bravil Underground. Most times it happens is during atuosave when exiting the Inn into Bravil proper, but it also has happened while trying to sleep in the Underground. I did a couple of searchings of the forums for CTD, but didn't find anything specific to this kind of crash. I figured I'd ask about this CTD here as my build is focused 90% or so on Lovers Lab mods or necessary mods for said mods. If anyone has any experience with this, I'd appreciate any info. Thanks. As usual, here's the load order: Oblivion.esm Beautiful People 2ch-Ed.esm Lovers with PK.esm LoversCreature.esm x117race.esm Chanpon.esm Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp UOPS Additional Changes.esp UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp DLCShiveringIsles.esp Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp 1SB Necromancer staff.esp 1SB NineTongues Sword.esp 1SB_WarhammerWingedStaff.esp 1SB_RavenousEleganceOutfit.esp 1SB_TerryMalick_BallGownVariants.esp 1SB_OrthaeSword.esp 1SBLethalMajestyWeapons.esp Tenue de la reine du sang.esp Armor of Gaia.esp Arynns-Heavenly-Sword_hottest.esp Amber Weapons.esp Akatosh Shield.esp Adonnay Longswords Alt.esp Adrenaline Tanktop.esp Badmagic Chrome Dwarven.esp Badmagic Crusader.esp Badmagic's Rogue Set.esp BladeofWoeReplacer9Tongues.esp BMC Hunter2 Cuirass.esp BMC Hunter Cuirass.esp Badmagic's Slinky Light Knight's Armour.esp Badmagic Red Ebony - Daedric Strength.esp Badmagic Mail Outfits.esp Badmagic Ancient Vampire Weapons.esp Cross Sword.esp Day Walker Sword.esp GoldenShadowArmor.esp HGEC Lady Camellia.esp Imperial Legion Dragon Weapons.esp LKF_EY_Vampirehunter.esp Ruby Rose Armor.esp Sinbloods_Nightweave_HGEC.esp Throne Armor.esp Fallen Throne Armor.esp TM's HGEC Ball Gown.esp Underworld Armor.esp ExnemEC_Warrior01.esp HGEC Dantes Clothes - EV.esp HGEC_SBVelvetRose.esp HGEC Sinblood's Nightweave DB.esp TafasSexyLingerieset02.esp TrawlolsCorinthianGladiator.esp DianoArmor2.esp Knights.esp Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp BMC Chrome Ebony.esp RMDailyIncomeV2.esp LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP.esp LoversHooker.esp LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP_HookerPatch.esp LoversVoiceSSPplus.esp LoversBed.esp LoversImmoralGuards.esp LoversImmoralSisters.esp LoversPayBandit.esp Lovers with PK.esp LoversBitch.esp LoversCreature.esp Lovers with PK Extender.esp LoversBackup2.esp LoversRapeSlave.esp LoversMagic.esp LoversMB2.esp LoversLight.esp LoversSlaveTrader.esp LSTBravilUnderground.esp RefScope.esp DiabloEF 6 in 1.esp Nec Mystic High Elf-Remake.esp Nec Mystic Dark Elf-Remake.esp _Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp Elves Of Lineage II.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Disable BandBlindMask.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Sheogorath Eye.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Vanilla Race.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged Hair Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged Eye Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged SKSRENs Hair Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged RoseSims Hair Modules.esp x117 Merged SKSRENs Hair Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed CustomRace.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Chocolate Elves.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Ashara's Sirens and Tritons.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Cute Elves.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Nec Mystic High Elf Remake.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed MS Elves - NoSc.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed ENG Race.esp x117race.esp x117Race ENG Race.esp Lop-ears Elf.esp Lattamer.esp Raven Elves.esp Dark Raven Elves.esp Bashed Patch, 0.esp LoversIdleAnimsPriority.esp LoversAnimObjectsPriority.esp Pierced.esp LSTaddonInH.esp
kingkong Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 did you bashed patch your loversmods ? (not good idee) . you need to sort manually lovers mods you have an exemple here http://www.loverslab.com/topic/4487-please-read-before-posting-here/ follow the exemple LO .
varenne Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 Ditto on what kingkong said. Disable all Lovers MODs before Bash Patch regenerate, plus any MODs that are script heavy too. Scripts in a Bashed Patch can have very unpredictable results in-game, there are a few that require it bu tare usually marked with Bash Tags for it. And Auto save I'd turn off. The saves it creates are notoriously buggy and unstable over time. First issue is to rework you LO, then see if the CTD problem persists. Other notes You can disable UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp and use the Tweak Settings in Wrye for the same result when you rebuild your Bashed Patch. MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp is also no longer need with the latest LAPF and Lovers MODs. Make sure all of those Lovers MODs are LAPF compatible and up to date, if you are using LAPF. If that was my LO, I'd think about merging some of those weapon MODs together, same for armors. You'll reduce Oblivion load times and have many more slots open to add more MODs later.
splat_phastkyl Posted April 4, 2015 Author Posted April 4, 2015 Hello, So, for some feed back on the suggestions, not in suggested order... I have not bash-patched things togehter. I was considering it but, ultimately passed on it. As far as I can tell, looking at the series numbers on the LAPF, OBSE, etc, I should have the most up to date versions. The install is less than a month old. I had to rebuild from scratch. I'll take on your advice to disable Robert's. As I'm not bash-patching, I suppose I should leave the two UOP things active? I've been thinking on combining the weapons and armor mods into relative grouping mods as you suggest. I just need to read up on how to do that. After rereading some of the load instructions on things, I see I still haven't activated the archive invalidator. I'm not sure if that causes CTD, but should be back on my list of things to take care of. I'll turn off the auto-save, though I believe I've also had crasses on regular saves, too. Of cousre, after going through several of them in a couple of hours, which caused crash when has started to blurr. Seems like it's time to do more tests. The rework the load order is the part that has me second guessing myself. I did a chunck by chunk comparision of my load order against the one in Please Read Before Posting list and I noticed only 3 descrepancies. 1) The LSTaddoninH.esp got shifted to the bottom as I replaced it with the newer one. - I have corrected this and it is now in its proper place. 2) The Immoral Sisters, and Guards I would guess, are higer in the higharchy than in the example, but still in the same grouping of Lover mods. 3) The x117race.esm is under Lover's with PK and Lover's Creatures when it's supposed to be above them. For sorting, I've been using BOSS with a recent updated list. I read somewhere that BOSS doesn't always sort the Lover's mods correctly. So, for fixing the load order for number 2 and 3, should I try readjusting their position using Mod Manager, or should I adjust the rules using BOSS? Finally, with the load order, do you see some mess I've missed as, currently, my brain's going... oh god, they said I need to fix the load order. Where's the mess up at? What did I do wrong. Ok, make lists and compare. Ok, which part am I missing? Make more lists and compare, check again... my brain gets into cyclical glitches like that when fixing things. Over all, thank you both for your feed back. Any additional feedback is always welcomed. Edit: I found another one. LoversMB2.esp is supposed to be below the bash-patch. I guess paranoia checking does pay off. So, hopefully, now that is all that's out of order. Hopefully.
varenne Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 You didn't need a major overhaul like some that have posted, just as kingkong pointed to, manually order your Lovers MODs. Reason is BOSS never did a good job at specifically Lovers MODs. You can also make use of the BOSS User List, which helps to order MODs it does not order with the Master List file. Useful for Lovers or any other MOD not identified in the Master List. As I'm not bash-patching, I suppose I should leave the two UOP things active? I'm confused with that statement. You have a Bashed Patch, so what are you not bash-patching? Those should be picked up by WB and added to your Bashed Patch, and remain Active, not merged into your Bashed Patch. There are two distinct definitions of merge or merged. One applies to WB and it is what WB is doing when you build/rebuild yout Bashed Patch. Information from MODs is merged into the Bashed Patch, if and where it can be. The second definition applies to taking two similar ESP files such as weapons or armor and merging them into one ESP. (Combining is probably a better word choice.) You can use CS/E or TES4Gecko for accomplishing that. But I would hold off on doing that till you identify the root cause of CTDs. It's not likely to be a weapon or armor MOD, but who knows. After making you LO tweaks, start with a clean save game, or a new one. Sometimes saves get corrupted and there's not much you can do to fix them. When in WB, go through your list of MODs, top to bottom and make note of the Masters section, lower right side pane. If any appear out of order (After you've fixed and solidified your LO) you can use TES4Gecko to reorder Masters. (This is not very common; I've only had to do it once or twice since playing Oblivion.) For sorting, I've been using BOSS with a recent updated list. I read somewhere that BOSS doesn't always sort the Lover's mods correctly. So, for fixing the load order for number 2 and 3, should I try readjusting their position using Mod Manager, or should I adjust the rules using BOSS? I'd use the BOSS User List for those. Old example of how to write one: ADD: LST-EURN.esp TOP: Semi-final overrides ADD: MbpGirlRed.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: MbpGirlNord.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: MbpGirlKhajiit.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: MbpGirlImp.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: MbpGirlBreton.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: MbpGirlBosmer.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: MbpGirlAltmer.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: RaceCompatibilityForEurn.esp AFTER: EURN.esp ADD: Slof's Extra Horses 2.esp AFTER: Slof's Extra Horses.esp ADD: MaternityClothes.esp BOTTOM: Body Replacer Armour & Clothing ADD: LoversSummonRapeman.esp AFTER: LoversRapeman.esp ADD: LoversJoburg NoDelay Addon.esp AFTER: LoversJoburg.esp ADD: LoversBeatemUpS.esp BOTTOM: Overrides ADD: LoversUtilityFunctions.esp BEFORE: LoversBeatemUpS.esp ADD: LoversMotionsNT.esp BOTTOM: Overrides ADD: LeveledCreatureNT.esp BEFORE: LoversMotionsNT.esp ADD: PlayerSlaveEncounters.esp AFTER: LoversMotionsNT.esp ADD: LoversSexKariBurne.esp AFTER: LoversBed.esp ADD: LoversUnicorn.esp AFTER: LoversJealousy.esp ADD: LoversCreatureVoiceForceEnabler.esp AFTER: LoversCreature_SexualOrgans_Scale.esp ADD: LoversWhiteCatCourier.esp AFTER: LoversImmoralSisters.esp ADD: Neverender.esp BOTTOM: Overrides ADD: MONSTERGIRL-NECROMANCER MOON.esp AFTER: CHILDREN ANNUAD.esp ADD: MONSTERGIRL-DEMON HIVE.esp AFTER: CHILDREN ANNUAD.esp ADD: MONSTERGIRL-ANGELICALLIANCE.esp AFTER: CHILDREN ANNUAD.esp ADD: MONSTERGIRL-AMAZON.esp AFTER: CHILDREN ANNUAD.esp Which MOD Manager? I only use OBMM so if its another one no help there, but yes using a MOD Manager is another tool to help manage your MODs and is a good idea. (Make sure to have your chosen MOD Manger set to control LO and not WB; more reading.)
QuiteTheTail Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 I can confirm this. Lately I had crashes when exiting 'Silverhome on the water' on a regular basis. Then at some point the problem sorted out itself, and now it doesn't happen anymore. I still ignore the cause, but when my game begins to act strangely, there's always an unusual activity from Oblivion Crash Prevention System (weocps.dll) in the form of 'beep' sounds. I don't have autosave disabled, but I always keep a good number of reliable savegames for backup. Most probably is a savegame issue.
fejeena Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 The OCPS ( Oblivion Crash Prevention System) no longer exists. Nexus file removed reason: ----------------------- This file has currently been set to hidden by the author of the file. You cannot look at this file page or download any files relating to this file until the author makes the file visible to the public again. The reason given by the author is: This does not work anymore, and as such have been hidden from view. ----------------------------- ??? It works in my game... so don't know why the author says "it does not work" And I have not found a another/working download Link.
splat_phastkyl Posted April 4, 2015 Author Posted April 4, 2015 Just for some feed back... As I'm not bash-patching, I suppose I should leave the two UOP things active? I'm confused with that statement. You have a Bashed Patch, so what are you not bash-patching? Those should be picked up by WB and added to your Bashed Patch, and remain Active, not merged into your Bashed Patch. When starting Wrye Bash for the first time, one of the things they have you do is create the initial bash-patch. There's nothing in it, but it's there. This was following the instructions from the Wrye Bash pictorial manual. Which MOD Manager? I only use OBMM so if its another one no help there, but yes using a MOD Manager is another tool to help manage your MODs and is a good idea. (Make sure to have your chosen MOD Manger set to control LO and not WB; more reading.) I'm using The Elder Scrolls Mod Manager (TESMM), which is the latest version of what was once OBMM. I just call it Mod Manager as the name has gotten too long and I"m not sure if people would recognize the acronym. As for the other feed back you offered... I will study it over and impliment it during the weekend. (I just did a quick look at the example and that looks scarily simple to write I feel giddy.) I already disabled the autosave AND moved the BU-addon back into its proper position. I did look over my saves from when I had my last crash and it did crash on a regular save within the Inn. I have to wonder if it's crashing because I was saving over an older save. When it first started crashing I did a series of new saves, about a dozen, then started to cycle back over them again, one of which was the crash mentioned above. After I made the two changes, I did a new save followed by a save over one of the newer-previous saves. Both functioned correctly. Also, I was able to exit and enter the inn without problems. That's the progress I have so far. Figured it might be good to post what progress I have as I go through step by step. As I can't get the crash to duplicate again, I may re-activate the autosave just to test it out. I will add in that before each crash, I had completed the Juicy Meat quest from Bravil Underground. That's the only other constant in the whole situation, but I'm not saying that's a problem. Thank you, again, for your feed back and help on this. Thank you, everyone else, as well, for your inputs. It is always appreciated. Here's the list of steps that preceded my previous crashes. Contains quest spoiler. Actions leading up to previous crashes: Stepped out of my Bravil Shack. Drank Super Skooma Collected beef Opened cage Killed Cattle Killed beserk kitties Got key Exited back to underground Exited back to Inn Tried to save inside - crash Autosave while exiting - crash
varenne Posted April 4, 2015 Posted April 4, 2015 Wrye Bash Yes, it won't add your current LO until you rebuild it as I recall, been a very long time since I've had to do that. If you are currently not using Bashed Patch.esp may as well disable it. Just make sure no MODs you plan on using have a Bash Tag requirement. You can still run some 'tagged' MODs without it, but it can present issues to have to resolve because of it. Saves Never overwrite and use an old save, very unstable and prone to errors, bugs creeping in. If you find you are getting to many saves, most especially Autosave saves. (Has something to do with how Bethesda setup the Autosave feature.) You can always archive them and move them to another location or drive for storage. I must have about 15 to 16 gig just in save games archived on another drive and partition. Enjoy and hope your CTD issue is resolved.
splat_phastkyl Posted April 6, 2015 Author Posted April 6, 2015 Hello, Thank you, everyone, for your assistance, especially Varenne. I am continuing this post at the moment as I've completed the load order arangements, including rule changes for BOSS (see below) and am still having CTD. On the other hand, I have been able to narrow down the event of the CDT more, which I shall touch upon first. I am supplying this information for reference and archival purposes as well as possible troubleshooting feedback. In short, the CDT is related to Shack and Alexi's shop in the Bravil Underground. The Quest: Wait in the Chest has been completed, but the found book not read. After experimenting outside of the Underground with play and saves and recieving no CDTs, I returned to the Underground to test there. I made several saves throughout the Underground, in the open area and inside differnt shops, including Alexi's. No problem. I entered the shack, saved. No problem I picked up items to sell and/or dispose of, as well as ingrediant items. Saved. No problem. I exited the shack. Saved. No problem I entered Alexi's shop. Saved. No problem. I sold items and disposed of items, see list below. I finished conversation with Alexi. Saved within his shop. CTD during save. I repeated this last part several times, attempting to save at differnt points and location, both inside and outside of his shop, all ending with CTD. This seems to me to be a repeatable crash, but I have no clue how the selling of any of these particular items would result in it. I have sold other items to Alexi in the past, with no problems saving. List of items sold/disposed of to Alexi 1 Guide to Anvil 1 Guide to Bravil 2 Parchment 2 Crumpled Piece of Paper 1 Gold Nugget 1 Belted Braies 1 Blacksmith's apron 2 Coarse Linen Shirt 1 Huntsman Leather Pants 1 Huntsman Moccasins 1 Sack Cloth Pants 1 Stitched Leather Shoes Load Order Oblivion.esm Beautiful People 2ch-Ed.esm x117race.esm Lovers with PK.esm LoversCreature.esm Chanpon.esm Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp UOPS Additional Changes.esp UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp DLCShiveringIsles.esp Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp 1SB Necromancer staff.esp 1SB NineTongues Sword.esp 1SB_WarhammerWingedStaff.esp 1SB_RavenousEleganceOutfit.esp 1SB_TerryMalick_BallGownVariants.esp 1SB_OrthaeSword.esp 1SBLethalMajestyWeapons.esp Tenue de la reine du sang.esp Armor of Gaia.esp Arynns-Heavenly-Sword_hottest.esp Amber Weapons.esp Akatosh Shield.esp Adonnay Longswords Alt.esp Adrenaline Tanktop.esp Badmagic Chrome Dwarven.esp Badmagic Crusader.esp Badmagic's Rogue Set.esp BladeofWoeReplacer9Tongues.esp BMC Hunter2 Cuirass.esp BMC Hunter Cuirass.esp Badmagic's Slinky Light Knight's Armour.esp Badmagic Red Ebony - Daedric Strength.esp Badmagic Mail Outfits.esp Badmagic Ancient Vampire Weapons.esp Cross Sword.esp Day Walker Sword.esp GoldenShadowArmor.esp HGEC Lady Camellia.esp Imperial Legion Dragon Weapons.esp LKF_EY_Vampirehunter.esp Ruby Rose Armor.esp Sinbloods_Nightweave_HGEC.esp Throne Armor.esp Fallen Throne Armor.esp TM's HGEC Ball Gown.esp Underworld Armor.esp ExnemEC_Warrior01.esp HGEC Dantes Clothes - EV.esp HGEC_SBVelvetRose.esp HGEC Sinblood's Nightweave DB.esp TafasSexyLingerieset02.esp TrawlolsCorinthianGladiator.esp DianoArmor2.esp Knights.esp Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp BMC Chrome Ebony.esp RMDailyIncomeV2.esp LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP.esp LoversHooker.esp LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP_HookerPatch.esp LoversVoiceSSPplus.esp LoversBed.esp LoversPayBandit.esp Lovers with PK.esp LoversBitch.esp LoversCreature.esp Lovers with PK Extender.esp LoversBackup2.esp LoversRapeSlave.esp LoversMagic.esp LoversLight.esp LoversSlaveTrader.esp LSTBravilUnderground.esp LoversImmoralSisters.esp LoversImmoralGuards.esp LSTaddonInH.esp RefScope.esp DiabloEF 6 in 1.esp Nec Mystic High Elf-Remake.esp Nec Mystic Dark Elf-Remake.esp _Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp Elves Of Lineage II.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Disable BandBlindMask.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Sheogorath Eye.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Vanilla Race.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged Hair Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged Eye Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged SKSRENs Hair Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Merged RoseSims Hair Modules.esp x117 Merged SKSRENs Hair Modules.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed CustomRace.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Chocolate Elves.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Ashara's Sirens and Tritons.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Cute Elves.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed Nec Mystic High Elf Remake.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed MS Elves - NoSc.esp Beautiful People 2ch-Ed ENG Race.esp x117race.esp x117Race ENG Race.esp Lop-ears Elf.esp Lattamer.esp Raven Elves.esp Bashed Patch, 0.esp LoversMB2.esp Dark Raven Elves.esp LoversIdleAnimsPriority.esp LoversAnimObjectsPriority.esp Pierced.esp LO Rules (including those made for Lovers In Bold) // Oblivion - BOSS Userlist Manager v6.7.2//UserCat: ――――――――― User RulesADD: LSTaddonInH.espAFTER: LSTBravilUnderground.espOVERRIDE: LoversImmoralGuards.espAFTER: LSTBravilUnderground.espOVERRIDE: LoversMB2.espBEFORE: LoversIdleAnimsPriority.espOVERRIDE: LoversImmoralSisters.espAFTER: LSTBravilUnderground.espOVERRIDE: x117race.esmAFTER: Beautiful People 2ch-Ed.esmADD: Dark Raven Elves.espAFTER: Raven Elves.espADD: Tenue de la reine du sang.espAFTER: 1SBLethalMajestyWeapons.espADD: Imperial Legion Dragon Weapons.espBOTTOM: Items IADD: Day Walker Sword.espBOTTOM: Items DADD: Cross Sword.espBOTTOM: Items CADD: BMC Hunter2 Cuirass.espBOTTOM: Items BADD: BMC Hunter Cuirass.espBOTTOM: Items BADD: Badmagic's Slinky Light Knight's Armour.espBOTTOM: Items BADD: Badmagic Red Ebony - Daedric Strength.espBOTTOM: Items BADD: Badmagic Mail Outfits.espBOTTOM: Items BADD: Badmagic Ancient Vampire Weapons.espBOTTOM: Items BADD: Amber Weapons.espBOTTOM: Items AADD: Akatosh Shield.espBOTTOM: Items AADD: Adonnay Longswords Alt.espBOTTOM: Items A//Inactive: OVERRIDE: Pierced.esp//Inactive: AFTER:ADD: Fallen Throne Armor.espAFTER: Throne Armor.espADD: Adrenaline Tanktop.espBOTTOM: Items A Edit So, after posting, I reloaded the last good save and initiated a process of selling each item on the list, one at a time, then saving after each sale. Process: Start conversation Open Sale Sell 1 item Close sale Exit conversation Save new game I don't know if it's Alexi or the item, but the game CTD each time I try to save after selling the copy of Guide to Bravil Alexi does possess one copy of that book in his inventory for sale, but that usually doesn't make a difference in other merchants. I will try and sell the cursed book at other vendors and see what happens. Edit 2 I've taken the book around to other vendors in the Underground: The healing clinic, The club shop, & The bar where you get your slaver quests, as well as all of the ones in Bravili proper. None of them had the CTD problem after sale of the book. Should note, Nilawn of The Fair Deal also possessed a copy of Guide to Bravil in her inventory and I experienced on problem with sale of it to her. So, I think I've tested fairly around for this book-sale-crash problem and am pretty secure in saying that it is Alexi and that particular book. Why, I do not know. So, in the end, Don't sell Alexi copies of A Guide to Bravil. And for the clean up of why that happens, I'll leave that to better minds than mine.
varenne Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 Reads like a script issue... Running a new character PC so I'll have a look at it.
fejeena Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 I test it: sell Guide to Bravil ( found in the shack) If I save in the store the Game does not Crash but the "ping" of the OCPS (Oblivion Crash Prevention System) But if I leave the store and the Underground and SilverHomeonthewater no Problem with the autosave and "real" save in Bravil. Perhaps it is the AI package of Alexei ( zzzSTFenceReadBook ) If he eat and sleep the sells nothing. The AI package zzzSTFenceReadBook is "offers services" and "use item at" (read book) and he use the book in this inventory = Guide to Bravil ( his inventory ! not his merchant chest ) and he has only this book. Perhaps his interrupted "Guide to Bravil" reading (during sell and buy) causes the Problem, his AI Package does not know/can not decide which book to read. Don't know what else can cause the Problem I load all my Mods ( 170+) with TES4Edit and no Mod changed the "Guide to Bravil", so it is a vanilla item. Alexei has no script. His eat and Sleep AI Packages are vanilla. ------ EDIT : No it is not his AI Package. I changed it, so Alexei sit and "offers services" ( no Book reading) but when I sell the "Guide to Bravil" and save in his shop I still get the "ping" of the OCPS. !!!! But after the save I sold him another "Guide to Bravil" and saved the game in his shop and no "crash-ping" of the OCPS. ( have not tested what happens if I sell him two "Guide to Bravil" at once during the first sale ( when he have only one "Guide to Bravil" in his inventory) -------------- Solution : don't sell "Guide to Bravil" to Alexei or use OCPS (Oblivion Crash Prevention System)
Symon Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 You can be surprised at what can cause a crash to desktop! Here's a real example that I had. Using a new player race for the first time, I had crashes on Autosave when transitioning to Interiors. As a quick aside, the Autosave/Save over advice is a total myth. They have ZERO effect on stability. I've used the convenient autosaves and keep 10 or so rolling save slots for a VERY long time with no issues. I have an extremely stable Oblivion rig. Oblivion IS sensitive to saving rubbish though, and a fault with your running game often manifests as a crash upon a save. Crashing on a save attempt is a sign something is wrong with your current game, not with the save process! If you need further proof, Wrye, the greatest Morrowind and Oblivion Modder of all time uses autosaves in Wryemorph to make it work. If autosaves were buggy, Wryemorph would be unusable. Trust me, it isn't. Back to my crash. Conventional wisdom is that this is a fault with the save process. I of course went looking for the real reason. A few minutes checking revealed - the fault was missing ear textures!!!!!!! Oh they were there, but someone had hard coded c:\program files\etc etc as the texture path in the NIF! As my game runs from e:\Oblivion, this is effectively missing textures and, probably the culprit here, normal maps. Fixed the texture path in the ears and everything was fine. The crash went away. My technique for dealing with a CTD - look at new mods you've just added or mods that effect the area where the crash manifests.
varenne Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 As a quick aside, the Autosave/Save over advice is a total myth. Making note of that and the additional insight. If it is a myth I'm not inclined to continue promoting it as a truth or fact. I had similar results in Bravil Underground as fejeena. I use OCPS (Oblivion Crash Prevention System) also and wouldn't play without it.
splat_phastkyl Posted April 7, 2015 Author Posted April 7, 2015 Hi, So, after reading over everyone's new input, it got me to thinking about Inventory and Ownership. Doing an online search, I picked up this comment from the USEP Wiki Merchants in Oblivion do not sell the same thing every time you go into their shop and they may never sell a certain particular item... So, I did a little more searching, and came across this in the Adding Sellable Items to Merchant NPCs about how to set ownership and restrict items from being sold SellingOnce you've set the AI, the NPC will sell everything he owns and hasn't equipped yet. An Object's ownership is inherited by the container or cell it is in. So a merchant will sell: Items in his inventory that aren't equipped. Items in the current cell when he owns the items. Items in the current cell when he owns the cell, and the items don't belong to someone else. Items from any container he owns that is in the current cell. Items from any container in the current cell when he owns the cell and the container doesn't belong to someone else. Items in the container set as Merchant’s Container in the NPC Reference window (see Notes below). This container may be anywhere (handy for traveler merchants). Wares and containers have to be enabled to appear in the selling list. And Private stuffThere are two ways to prevent a npc from selling stuff (Like the family-shield on the wall of an armorer's shop): Don't set the cell to be owned by the NPC (i.e. set cell ownership to a faction that NPC belongs to), and give him explicit ownership for each object he should sell. Choose another owner for the objects that the NPC doesn't want to sell. (e.g. the Faction "Generic Owner") http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Adding_Sellable_Items_To_Merchant_NPC So, my first thought was that he doesn't own the book. But, looking at him in the CS, he has it listed. Then I thought it might be ownership issues between what is in the merchant's chest to sell and what's in his inventory, as the chest is marked as his, but the cell is marked as faction. I could test this by trying to sell him something else he has. Yet, while I was muddling this out, another idea came to me. What if the conflict has to do with equpiing and unequiping inventory items and the stacking of them? A kind of, even though the animation shows it is unequiped, because of the interuption of the animation and the starting of the conversation, the game engine still considers that the book is 'equiped' and that by 'purchasing' a second copy, it's now stacked 2 in the equiped condition. So, those were my thoughts. I'm trying to delve more into it, but Oblivion looks more complicated than I remember Morrowind being. But that could just be age and time playing on my perception.
fejeena Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 "What if the conflict has to do with equpiing and unequiping inventory items and the stacking of them? A kind of, even though the animation shows it is unequiped, because of the interuption of the animation and the starting of the conversation, the game engine still considers that the book is 'equiped' and that by 'purchasing' a second copy, it's now stacked 2 in the equiped condition." No I tested it with a changed AI Package: no book reading ! Only sit on stool and "offers Services". So no Animation "book reading" and no book equipping and unequipping. But the bug is still there; "ping" Sound of the OCPS after sell him the "Guide to Bravil" and save the game. You know the bug... so don't sell him the "Guide to Bravil" and use OCPS (Oblivion Crash Prevention System). There are so many bugs in Oblivion why waste your time with a bug you can simply avoid ? Don't sell "Guide to Bravil" = no game save Crash.
QuiteTheTail Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Don't sell "Guide to Bravil" = no game save Crash. Words of wisdom. May I ask, though: it's just the copy of "Guide to Bravil" found in the shack, or ANY copy of the same book? By the way, CTDs are not the only thing that plagues Oblivion. I remember that trying to fast travel with a small bounty on your head makes the game hang indefinitely in the loading screen, for example. And talking about myths, Streamline's streamsave feature is overestimated in my opinion. You can have 70/80 useless streamsaves in a hour of play, then when you really need it (like after a long cutscene dialogue, or a long and profitable barter session) you get a crash and you find out that you have no streamsave at all! This is why I prefer a few quicksaves or hard saves done at the right time, that is: out of combat and not losing health (first cause of savegame corruption), after acquiring a rare item, after a barter session and so on.
fejeena Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 It is no Copy of "Guide to Bravil" it is a regular vanilla Version. ( not stolen ) --------------------------------------- Fast travel with bounty: Never had Problems in my game. Most times I have 5 or 10 Septim bounty from Immoral guards Mod. --------------------------- Streamline: I don't use. cannot comment on that.
QuiteTheTail Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 The fast travel bug is documented, I just don't remember well the details now. Perhaps it's a bounty you have been put even if you've committed no crimes, and as such isn't displayed in the player's journal. I'm not sure. What I know for sure, when the game hangs on the loading screen upon fast travel, the first thing I try is finding the nearest guard to pay the (real? fake?) fine. About the book, I think there is a misunderstanding. All the vanilla "Guide to Bravil" in the game share the same BaseID. But since they are different placed instances of the same object, they must have different RefID to be distinguished. The "Guide to Bravil" present in the shack is identical to any other "Guide to Bravil" you find in Chorrol or Bruma, yet is unique: because someone (the modder) has placed it in the shack and not somewhere else.
QuiteTheTail Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Fast travel hanging: perhaps has to do with this (quote from UESP): "Multiple unreported, zero-bounty crimes may cause instability in the game; to clear the list of unreported crimes, assault an NPC or take some other action that causes a reported crime, and pay the bounty."
movomo Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Pay the fine and repent your crime, criminal scum. You may be able to get away from the guards, but the guards are able to make you kiss goodbye to the game itself. indeed.
splat_phastkyl Posted April 7, 2015 Author Posted April 7, 2015 I agree, words of wisdom for me to let it go. Just a habbit of trying to troubleshoot things. I would use the CPS but, as was noted in other threads, it's no longer available. I did find some comments on it on other forums as to some of the 'why' behind it. Basically, they said it didn't fix the crash problem, only circumvented it and, by doing so, caused slow, progressive save corruption. Also, something about it not being compatable, or conflicts, with newer OBSE versions. http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/99458-windom-earles-oblivion-crash-prevention-system/page-30
movomo Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Yes, it conflicts. I stopped using that after I've realized that it has problem with obxp newer versions. And it doesn't prevent crash 100% anyway, it's not that fancy. What's worse than ctding is failing silently... although it is not literally 'silent'.
varenne Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 Hmmm... read through that thread. All I can say is I have it always enabled, have the latest OBSE installed and have not noticed anything to indicate save game corruption, at least not yet. I have been jumping around a lot; creating new saves and new characters, importing new faces to test out, new MODs for new armor to MOD for myself. It may be you need to play the same save for an extended period of time to notice any corruption. And I think it is clearly indicated in the title what its intended purpose is; Crash Prevention, not Solution of Fixing or Solving. Once you hear that 'ping' you can chose to investigate the cause of it, or not; new MODs/resources introduced to your current build. Sometimes it can be easy and obvious what is wrong or defective, and an easy fix. Other times it's like fejeena says, just move on as its not worth the effort to find or fix the issue. (I do make note of those MODs as problematic though.) I think I tend to use it as intended, a tool to identify problematic MODs, since I'm always adding more to my Oblivion builds to test out new and old stuff.
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