Changing bone orientation through HDTpe

[Changer]

Lately i was playing around with bone offsets to get a pushup effect on breasts if equiping a bra (http://www.loverslab.com/topic/37085-idea-hdt-wonderbra-fighting-gravity/).

by adjusting the joint setting in the constraint data i got it to work and it looks pretty nice

 

i am thinking whether there are more possibilities to use this...

that in mind, i was thinking of putting the foot joint into HDT and set it so that it rotates it down, streching the foot when equiping an item (like boots or so)

the idea is: when equiping high heel boots, the foot mesh is not replaced, i just equip the shoe mesh and the foot bends down by using an attached .xml. (i know that i can simply use a bent foot mesh to replace the normal one, but i want to try and solve it this way)

is this possible? im working with jff and i dont know what constraint and data i should use

no matter what i do, when i activate the .xml the feet are left where i stood after i move away... what am i doing wrong?

[blabba]

You can't control bones via HDT physics. Unless those bones are controlled purely by physics (like breasts/butt). (Described by the motion type category field in JFF)

 

Bones can only be exclusively controlled by Animation data or Physics data currently.

[Changer]

hdt +bbp works ok together, even when breast bounce is controlled by the animations and hdt at the same time

what is the difference here?

 

edit: also i added two extra bones between each foot and toe bones and attached added them to an xml... same result

i think i just get some settings wrong :x

ill try some more and post screenshots if i cant figure it out

[Changer]

ok ive got it to work now:

 

standard:

with xml attached:

 

its the same mesh in both screenshots.

 

 

it still needs a little fine tuning, but it is possible.

[blabba]

hdt +bbp works ok together, even when breast bounce is controlled by the animations and hdt at the same time

what is the difference here?

 

edit: also i added two extra bones between each foot and toe bones and attached added them to an xml... same result

i think i just get some settings wrong :x

ill try some more and post screenshots if i cant figure it out

 

HDT + BBP do NOT work together.

 

HDT completely OVERRIDES BBP when both are used in conjunction. The only exception is during pause menu's and what not (the effect that you see when breasts jump back and forth when you bring up the command console etc... Probably due to a faulty hook this)

 

The fix is to throw those bones out of the rig map (the map of all animateable bones) and thus allowing exclusive control of those bones to physics.

 

HDT just put an override though, so basically if you set your motion type to physics in the xml it'll override the animation data anyway

 

ok ive got it to work now:

 

standard: no_xml.jpg

with xml attached: with_xml.jpg

 

its the same mesh in both screenshots.

 

 

it still needs a little fine tuning, but it is possible.

 

Very cool, but if you take any toe posing animation (like something from halo's poser I guess? IDK where you'd find a toe pose mod TBH lol)

You'll see that what you did is completely override the animation data.

 

Which isn't too big an issue for the toe bones I guess since I don't think they get animated much anyway.

[Changer]

i noticed that too, but as i said, i could just add extra bones to my female_skeleton.nif and attach hdt to them... this way animations would not be affected..

in this case i think it it even better to have the toe animation overidden since it would look weird if the characters toes are moving when wearing high heels

[Changer]

i have hit another problem... i am trying to add two HDT controlled joints

the skeleton at that area looks like this:

        ...

         |

vanilla bone

         |

vanilla bone

         |

HDT bone 1     keyframed

         |                                      > joint 1

HDT bone 2     inertia

         |

vanilla bone

         |

vanilla bone

         |

HDT bone 3     keyframed

         |                                      > joint 2

HDT bone 4     inertia

         |

vanilla bone

         |

        ...

 

its not woking though, if i set the hdt bone 3 to keyframed all movement in joint 1 stops working. I guess thats how it is with keyframed bones... is there a way to set it up so that both joints work without being linked together directly?

[Changer]

in case anyone is interested (propably not but ill write it anyway to stroke my ego): i got it to work smoothly and reliably.

I added an extra bone after each foot bone so the right foot of my skeleton looks like this (i am using xpmse):

          ...

           |

CME R Knee [RKne]

           |

NPC R Foot [Rft ]

           |

CUST R Foot [Rft ]

           |                    

CME R Foot [Rft ]

           |

NPC R Toe0 [RToe]

           |

          ...

 

 

 

then i changed the weight refference of my feet meshes from the "NPC R/L Foot"-bones to my new "CUST R/L Foot"-bones.

The .xml file changes the angle of the new custom bones and the "NPC R/L Toe0"-bones.

 

 

This way animations still controll the "NPC R/L Foot"-bones, while HDTpe applies to the custom foot bones and the toes. So the feet are still animated and toes are static, if equipping the xml (while wearing high heels movin the toes is barely possible).

The changing of the weight refference of the feet-meshes was the only way could figure out to get it to work with animated feet and static toes. But changing the refference is pretty easily done with nifscope.

 

 

 

i could post more screenshots but it is mostly just my PC standing up on tiptoes if equipping the xml... not much to see there. i could edit some high heel shoe mesh to work with it. this way the shoes would work perfectly with and without socks or stockings. Maybe tomorrow or so...

 

in any way... the interesting fact is: this way it is possible to influence the positioning of bones/joints of an PC by equipping/unequipping an item, without using extra scripts or animations. im sure there are some more cool ways to use this

[Changer]

sooooo... i fitted one of xinafay's high heels with correct weights to fit my .xml.

here the screenshots:

 

without stockings:

 

 

 

with stockings:

 

 

 

note that i use the same stocking mesh both times, with and without shoes

[Uriel]

Is it possible to simply lift a character above ground with .xml? Like HHS does?

What i have in mind is to replace whole hdtHHS with hdtPE. HHS is not too stable, uses scripts, HHS enabled mods require a dependency. Maybe PE would work better?

[Changer]

maybe through the root or npc bone, or some custom bone put in between

dont think it would be too hard

 

the problem would be to deactivate it while using alchemy tables and stuff like that

[Uriel]

Nah, who cares. If it deactivates at alchemy table, you will get vanilla "feet in the floor" thing. If it will not deactivate you will get other stuff. My point here is that it will not work completely right anyway.

Also, there is that hdtSittingHeightFix plug around. Maybe it could help here?

Just a guess cause i've never actually looked into how it works. I know it comes with a list of anims that should be detected and fixed.

[Changer]

i just tried and it works... pretty easy actually

i inserted another custom bone between "NPC" and "NPC Root [Root]" and applied a fixed constraint to it. there you can set the z value for the custom lifting amount

[Uriel]

Could you please share that xml and skeleton?

I will playtest it a little(when i find time T_T), and if it works it would be a good idea to ask Groovtama to put such bone into that monstrous bone pile named XPMSE.

[Changer]

can do...

 

my modified xpmse skeleton: skeleton_female.nif

 

it has the custom "HDT lift"-bone i added between "NPC" and "NPC Root". Note that you would still need to do the same to your skeleton_femalebeast.nif. Otherwise it wont work for beast races.

also my custom foot bones are in there.. i did not bother to delete them, but they should cause no trouble in your game

 

the .xml: heel_heightincrease.xml

you need to bind it to the high heel boots you want it to apply to. how to bind xml files to nifs is explained in 20 different places her on LL...

to change the hight you have to open the file in JFF, switch to the "Constraints"-tab and change the z value in the constraint. i have set it to 10, but you would need to adjust it to the value you need.

 

also very important:

you have to add the bones in the "RigidBodies"-tab and the constraint in the "Constraints"-tab into your own hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml. set all values to the same ones in my file, exept for the z value in the constraint.. it has to be at 0. your hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml sets the default HDTpe values. if you dont have any default values defined for the new bone, you will keep floating in the air even after unequipping the boots with the new offset. by doing this you are telling the game to set the z value back to 0 when unequipping the boots with the heel_heightincrease.xml file

[Uriel]

Just tested a little. Works good, yet to find any bugs problems or something.

Oh yeah, there is a prob. When i unequip those heels the height wont return to normal. Any ideas on how to reset it?

Also, how do i change the amount of lifting?

[Uriel]

Test heels with hdtPE here!

 

Current issues: height is not reset back when heels are unequipped(only reloading resets it for now), lifting is to high for that heel mesh, other yet unknown stuff is possible. Also test heels are too red for my tastes.

 

Requirements: Skyrim(!!!), SKSE(yeah, don't be surprised), hdtPE, basic knowledge on where to put mod files and how tu use the provided skeleton_female.nif

 

ps: based on "MyHighHeelshoes" mod i found somewhere. All credits to it's author.

 

pps: please post your experience with this.

hdtPEheels_test.7z

[Changer]

as i said, you can set the offset in the XML. open it in JFF and go to to contraints tab, there edit the constraint values (i set it to 10... the more, the higher u are lifted).

to get it to reset back to 0when unequipping, you have to put the same data into your hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml (also with JFF). Set the offset to 0 there.

 

also i encountered a problem with my other HDT mod that adds extra bones so it could apply to this too: the new bones have to be added in all skeletons (female AND male) if you add them to your hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml. Otherwise you might encounter severe performance loss and/or CTDs.

[Uriel]

I wonder if ther's any way to reset height by simply unequipping the heels.

What will happen if i add zero height into hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP, and equip heels with your xml attached?

I wonder if HDT herself is still around. Would like to hear her opinion about this.

[Uriel]

Huh. how about attaching a zero height xml to female feet mesh?

[thor]

Just add "CUST R/L foot" bone as child of "NPC R/L Foot [Rft ]"

and "CUST R Toe" bone as child of "CUST R foot"

 

This way you don't have to add them to the skeleton_female.nif. ( You need bones in the skeleton if you insert them between vanilla bones or if you want to play animations with them ). You just need to make sure that the bone hierachy is contained in the nif file of the shoes, and that "NPC R/L Foot [Rft ]" are present.

 

In 3DS you need to clean your scene keeping only the meshes and the "NPC R/L Foot [Rft ]" bones and their new children, and then export ( not export selected ) and "don't remove unused bones"

The nif file must keep the hierarchy with custom bones as children of "NPC R/L Foot [Rft ]"  If you don't do that you will walk outside of your shoes.

 

High heels meshes will use the new bones and flat shoes will use vanilla bones. When you remove the shoes the new bones are removed too.

 

If you don't want to keep the original animation of the foot bone, make them children of   "CME R/L Knee [RKne]"

[Uriel]

Are you talking to me? If so, then please explain how do you plan to lift the character with feet and toe bones.