Sexla Aroused Replacement Discussion

[fishburger67]

I have recently been having CTD issues on one of my machines caused by Sexlab Aroused.   After a brief discussion with another forum member, I think it is time to replace this mod with something less intrusive on the cpu and memory.  I believe I can do that, but while I am at it, I think it would also be nice to revisit the premises on which Aroused is based which is:

 

 

How long they view another naked npc.

Arousal increases if they see sex between other NPCs.

 

I am thinking that a real live human has their arousal increased mostly by time without sex.  In skyrim time there are no x rated videos, so it is not too likely to view sex between others.   Also in skyrim, there are no vanilla naked people.

 

So, I am thinking that arousal should be based on:

 

1.  Natural horniness (some people like sex more than others)

 

2.  How long the person has gone without sex.

 

3.  The persons age (desire decreases with age for some)

 

4.  Proximity to others they find attractive.  Being naked should have no bearing on their attraction.

 

So, my proposal is as follows:

 

1.  Create two factions, horniness faction (0  to 10)  (Absense of this faction means 5)

2.  Create replacement faction for sla_Aroused

3.  How long the person has gone without sex is already tracked in Sexlab

4.  Ignore age and treat everyone equal

5.  Gender preference and how many "attractive" people are nearby.

 

Trying to decide on which NPCs are "attractive" to any other given NPC is impossible (except for spouses), so it is simplest to just do a gender based attraction. So, if there is any NPC of the preferred gender at check time, that helps to increase arousal.

 

Assuming that the average person is mad for sex after two days (48 hours), their arousal would be:

 

if there is an attractive person nearby

   sla_arousal = ((48 * (horniness / 5))  / hourssincelastsex ) * 100 (max 100)

else

  sla_arousal = 0

 

This would be easy to compute and add a single faction to every npc encountered (which already happens)

 

One could keep a list of those that arousal was added and remove it when the cell was departed.  One could compute arousal on the fly when a dialog was displayed and avoid altogether the need to add a faction to random NPCs, thus reducing the impact on save games.

 

There is also the issue of married NPCs.  Havent given that much thought because I don't think that it would impact the computation except that the "attractive" NPC would be the spouse.

 

This is only a basis for discussion.  What I desire is to remove sex lab aroused because it is causing me CTDs from time to time and replace it with something with as little impact as possible.

 

Hopefully, many of you will offer ideas.

 

[Tepi]

At some point there was talk about Ashal incorporating sla in sexlab. Not sure how thats going, if at all. But you might want to contact him and ask about it.

Also if youre going to make a replacement for aroused, you need to think about other mods currently using aroused and arousal values. Most major one being DDi.

 

On a side not I used to have weird CTDs and having entry from sla as last in logs. After I did unpack the .bsa, those CTDs stopped happening. It might also be something else as Im fiddling around with ini settings and whatnot all the time.

[ratrace]

I'm looking forward to a less intrusive version / replacement, though I like SL Aroused a lot. So, no offense intended on the one who did that mod.

 

 

4.  Ignore age and treat everyone equal

Agreed. Under certain conditions, age can even fuel the sex drive, depending on whether one was unhealthy during times of youth and has recovered with age. Libido is not only the hormones.

 

 

5.  Gender preference and how many "attractive" people are nearby.

Absolutely. Please don't make that "all are bisexual"-Bioware-bullshit to serve the political correctness people and give (perhaps with an MCM option to change gender preference for NPCs you can select) the NPCs a sexual preference.

 

 

Looking forward to testing your work!

[aqqh]

I believe revamp of that mod was already planned. First Antono was intending to do that for new Relationship Framework (APPS), then i heard Ashal took it over. Dunno tho whats the progress.

[afa]

Besides SexLab Framework I think APPS is also tinkering with their own arousal system. (already mentioned it seems  )

Sexlab Attraction also mess around with the concept of attractiveness between characters

 

Assuming you have a fix for the load issue, and have ways to make it so it still works with other mods.

I would say make the math behind it a little easier and more flexible.

 

I am not sure about the idea of having arousal increases constantly if actor does not have sex. Town NPCs as they are rarely have sex, and when they are "off screen" they can't have sex. There needs to be a good counter to this. Arousal as it is right now also have this problem, with the default setting a few sex acts is enough to send someone's arousal skyrocket for a very long time, and if someone doesn't have sex for a extended period of time their arousal will always be near 0 until they do for a few times and they'll get send to hornyland for a few days minimum.

 

Tinkering with the number doesn't really solve that issue, it is difficult to get a happy medium. There should also be a way to distinguish the "type" of sex, aggressive, normal, or maybe something in between.

 

Also I think there needs to be a soft cap on how arouse someone can get naturally. There needs to be different level of induced arousal vs natural arousal. To put it in current Arousal term, someone who has been having sex will have their arousal naturally increase to a certain level that is based on their current "lifestyle," but it shouldn't be at the same level or should they be able to reach the same level of the arousal as someone with a vibrator plug inside her.

[Guest Jenova23]

I have also been having random CTD since sex lab aroused was released  I agree but the crashes have some what subsided.

[x9800]

I think the more simple any script mod is - the better. You know, the "KISS" principle. If mod uses too complex scripts, papyrus begins to behave weirdly and laggy, quest and script delay increase and crashes appears as well, especially on loading.

[matekun]

Also I think there needs to be a soft cap on how arouse someone can get naturally. There needs to be different level of induced arousal vs natural arousal. To put it in current Arousal term, someone who has been having sex will have their arousal naturally increase to a certain level that is based on their current "lifestyle," but it shouldn't be at the same level or should they be able to reach the same level of the arousal as someone with a vibrator plug inside her.

 

+1

 

Also,it's not logic to reach 100 arousal and just go doing your normal stuff.The only way to reach that high is at the orgasm time.

 

Something like 60-70 arousal top,then when sex starts continuing until 100 (orgasm).

 

[fishburger67]

I think the more simple any script mod is - the better. You know, the "KISS" principle. If mod uses too complex scripts, papyrus begins to behave weirdly and laggy, quest and script delay increase and crashes appears as well, especially on loading.

 

That is the entire idea, making it simple.  Currently, it is complex.  In my view, vanilla npcs would have no impact on the system unless their interaction with the player might result in sex in a real world.   The problem is deciding on which vanilla npcs would fit that.   Any who are potential followers or house carls certainly fit the bill.

 

As a first step for me, I am going to rewrite sla and get rid of most of the code except for the cell scans for people viewing sex.  Get rid of the spells that I think are causing the problem and keep the rest so it is compatible and see if there is really an impact on on CTD rate.  By making an MCM option to turn off cell scans (thereby removing the registerforupdate and associated load time issues) I think I can then test my ideas better,

 

I like all the ideas here, especially the realism ones as that in my view should be the end result.  I also don't want to break the marriage stuff and other mods that require sla.

[WaxenFigure]

 

The problem with using cell scans vs using cloak spells is that cell scans do not cross cell boundaries. Your player can be standing right next to someone and a cell scan will miss them entirely if they are not in the same cell as the player.

 

Using a cloak spell is pretty much mandatory to make mods like this work properly.

[fishburger67]

The problem with using cell scans vs using cloak spells is that cell scans do not cross cell boundaries. Your player can be standing right next to someone and a cell scan will miss them entirely if they are not in the same cell as the player.

 

Using a cloak spell is pretty much mandatory to make mods like this work properly.

 

I agree with this for exterior cells, but it works nicely for interior cells.  Furthermore, the cloak spells function is used to determine arousal based on someone being naked.  That is all it does. 

 

If we re-think what causes arousal in the real world, I think we can do away with this.  Really, how many times in your life have you gotten aroused seeing someone naked that was not your partner.   I suspect that number is ZERO for most.

 

Additionally, go into many interior cells and you have 20 to 40 of these scripts running (look at slaCloakEffScr in SaveTool.exe for any save you have in a big cell and see how many instances of it are running).

 

The arousal level is also saved.  Realistically, If you get aroused incidentally, are you still aroused an hour later?  Do you even remember the cute girl/boy you saw walking down the street?  In most cases, the answer is no.

 

So if we look at this from a game impact point of view, we can probably get away from spell effects and cell scans entirely.  Do we care about NPC arousal in exterior cells?  I am thinking of doing away entirely with even caring about someone seeing another player naked.  In most cases, I don't want to see or know about sex or nakedness between Jarl Ravenclone and her husband. 

 

I think we could add a dialog option to friendly players (someone you did a favor for for example) to indicate that you find them attractive and then keeping a faction that counts these contacts mitigated by their marital status, morality, follower status, etc.  Their and your mutual desire (as opposed to arousal) would increase as the number of these contacts increased.

 

The problem for me is that I do not know how this would effect other mods that depend on SLA.  The only one that I have significant experience with is SexLab Romance, but I think I could make a replacement mod that work with it without using the cloak spell and maybe doing a cell scan triggered by sleep or something.

 

Just food for thought.  I don't really care.  I just want to end my CTDs for good and SLA is a contributor.  I also think it would be fun to have arousal/desire computed in a more realistic way.  Arousal is a mostly instantaneous thing.  Desire builds over time.

[Heromaster]

Current plans are that Aroused will be implemented into SexLab itself or a rewritten SexLab Plugin by Ashal. When he is done, Ashal and ourselves are creating an API for the new Aroused implementation.

 

Everything I said is subject to change, but you can expect that something will be done.

[afa]

 

If we re-think what causes arousal in the real world, I think we can do away with this.  Really, how many times in your life have you gotten aroused seeing someone naked that was not your partner.   I suspect that number is ZERO for most.

Errr erm... yes I have?  (Is it me, am I the weird one here!?)

 

 

Additionally, go into many interior cells and you have 20 to 40 of these scripts running (look at slaCloakEffScr in SaveTool.exe for any save you have in a big cell and see how many instances of it are running).

 

The arousal level is also saved.  Realistically, If you get aroused incidentally, are you still aroused an hour later?  Do you even remember the cute girl/boy you saw walking down the street?  In most cases, the answer is no.

 

So if we look at this from a game impact point of view, we can probably get away from spell effects and cell scans entirely.  Do we care about NPC arousal in exterior cells?  I am thinking of doing away entirely with even caring about someone seeing another player naked.  In most cases, I don't want to see or know about sex or nakedness between Jarl Ravenclone and her husband. 

 

I think we could add a dialog option to friendly players (someone you did a favor for for example) to indicate that you find them attractive and then keeping a faction that counts these contacts mitigated by their marital status, morality, follower status, etc.  Their and your mutual desire (as opposed to arousal) would increase as the number of these contacts increased.

 

The problem for me is that I do not know how this would effect other mods that depend on SLA.  The only one that I have significant experience with is SexLab Romance, but I think I could make a replacement mod that work with it without using the cloak spell and maybe doing a cell scan triggered by sleep or something.

 

Just food for thought.  I don't really care.  I just want to end my CTDs for good and SLA is a contributor.  I also think it would be fun to have arousal/desire computed in a more realistic way.  Arousal is a mostly instantaneous thing.  Desire builds over time.

 

While I agree that arousal is intensive, but I am not sure "realism" is what we should be looking for to solve the issue.

 

SLArousal as a mod serves as a fairly good way for other mods to get their "trigger hooks" without it being a purely chance based dice roll.

When NPC has X arousal, Y could happens, things like Lovers Victim, Attraction, Approach, etc.

When player arousal is at X, Y could happen, or Z becomes a viable option. Devious Device, APPS

 

The whole NPCs reacting to its surrounding is pretty critical for some of these to work, and ways of encouraging them to take these actions is necessary by having events that can increase their arousal which is done currently by seeing a naked NPC or PC, witness sex acts.

 

The concept itself sounds logical to me. There is a lot of room for refining of course, I do agree that arousal stays high a little too long, and could use some adjustment.

[fishburger67]

Current plans are that Aroused will be implemented into SexLab itself or a rewritten SexLab Plugin by Ashal. When he is done, Ashal and ourselves are creating an API for the new Aroused implementation.

 

Everything I said is subject to change, but you can expect that something will be done.

 

Well, maybe I can help get you guys started.  As an experiment, I am going to write a duplicate of aroused implemented as quest with referencealias instead of the cloak spell.

 

Hopefully, this will remove the CTDs while still allowing it to function.

[Heromaster]

If that would be just that easy

 

We had a big discussion about Aroused back in May and how it could be rewritten. If you want to get brain fucked literally, see those pictures.

 

 

[fishburger67]

I had nothing quite so complete planned, only a replacement for the existing aroused using existing algorithms so it is one for one replacement.  Only that it doesn't cause CTDs on so many users.  I expect to have a beta ready in a day if I can find the time and put it out for public beta the following day.

 

The one single overriding requirement for me at the moment is that it does not stress the system and that it does not cause CTDs.  Having 12 instances of the cloak script in a save game running at startup.  That is what I intend to get rid of.

 

Here is an example post I read and there are lots of others like it:

 

This mod has tons of potential and looks really good.  I won't be able to include it though since it requires SexLab Aroused which doesn't work for me (believe me I've tried).  Aroused causes too many CTDs and save game load issues.  The cloaking scripts seem to get "stuck" or "looped" a lot and a clean save is required to get things working again (until it happens again).  Too much pain and headache.  My Skyrim setup is very well optimized.

 

 

If I can get this to work, you guys can have eons to work up something really elegant.

[Ashal]

I'm still planning on my aroused rewrites.

 

My current plan is to integrate the core hooks/calculations into SexLab, taking advantage of the various stats SexLab already tracks to provide a base system for all mods to hook into simple stats like arousal level and rate of increase. This would be a basic simple system for any mod to use without adding an extra SexLabAroused dependency.

 

Afterwards I'd develop SexLabAroused itself out separately as it's own plugin, hooking back into the SexLab's integrated arousal stat for the base data and then doing various more complicated things for manipulating it that I wouldn't include with SexLab Framework, such as exhibitionism and integration with other mods like DD, SOS, and Attraction. While in addition to offloading the arousal stat to SexLab itself, focusing on maintaining backwards compatibility with current mods that use SexLabAroused and removing the cloaking effect.

[fishburger67]

I'm still planning on my aroused rewrites.

 

My current plan is to integrate the core hooks/calculations into SexLab, taking advantage of the various stats SexLab already tracks to provide a base system for all mods to hook into simple stats like arousal level and rate of increase. This would be a basic simple system for any mod to use without adding an extra SexLabAroused dependency.

 

Afterwards I'd develop SexLabAroused itself out separately as it's own plugin, hooking back into the SexLab's integrated arousal stat for the base data and then doing various more complicated things for manipulating it that I wouldn't include with SexLab Framework, such as exhibitionism and integration with other mods like DD, SOS, and Attraction. While in addition to offloading the arousal stat to SexLab itself, focusing on maintaining backwards compatibility with current mods that use SexLabAroused and removing the cloaking effect.

 

I look forward to seeing the result.  You guys are way more skilled in this environment than I.

[CrimsonOmegaLance]

If it would be at all possible to keep the resource/papyrus footprint of aroused/sexlab to a minimum that would be greatly appreciated.

[fishburger67]

If it would be at all possible to keep the resource/papyrus footprint of aroused/sexlab to a minimum that would be greatly appreciated.

 

I have done that already.   The papyrus footprint of Aroused - Redux is 1/10 or less (depending on how many npcs are in your area) the size of the original and I expect to reduce that even more.  I am still looking at tests from people who have agreed to test it.

 

[powerofvoid]

As I see it, there are two uses for an "arousal" mod, and they should probably be separated:

• A "cooldown" on sex events/effects
• "I am soo horny" events/effects

The former would work something like, "if it's been a while since you had a sex event, things that might cause sex events become more likely to do so", and would probably want to be integrated into the core framework. It would probably also not be called "arousal".

I can see this working two ways:

• A single variable that stores the last time the character had a sex event
• A log of sex events that mods can check. (e.g.: "how long has it been since the last time the player had sex with a dragon")

In either case, it doesn't do anything on its own, and it's up to other mods to do things like: "if you have had sex in the past 24 hours, the guards at the temple of chastity will stop you from entering", or, "if you've had sex with a dragon, you start craving it. Dragons get a +1% bonus to rape actions against you for every 15 minutes since you last had sex with one."

The latter would want to be developed into a "deeper" experience than just "there's a number somewhere", and would do things like:

• Allow for aphrodisiacs
• At high levels, make the character stop to masturbate, or rape available NPCs, depending on variables like morality and orientation
• At even higher levels, make the character stop to masturbate *even in combat*
• At high levels, remove options to say "no" to sex

This would have its own configuration, such as:

• Does sex make you less horny or more?
• What effect does being seen naked have on your arousal?

[Veladarius]

 

 

The latter would want to be developed into a "deeper" experience than just "there's a number somewhere", and would do things like:

• Allow for aphrodisiacs
• At high levels, make the character stop to masturbate, or rape available NPCs, depending on variables like morality and orientation
• At even higher levels, make the character stop to masturbate *even in combat*
• At high levels, remove options to say "no" to sex

This would have its own configuration, such as:

• Does sex make you less horny or more?
• What effect does being seen naked have on your arousal?

 

 

The thing is, Aroused is just a framework and doesn't do anything on its own, it wasn't intended to. Things like forced masturbation or npc rape should be handled by other mods and removing the option to say no to sex would require either putting in options to have sex/be asked for sex or intrude into other mods.

 

As for Aphrodisiacs that can already be done, the belts from DD are an example as they can modify how fast your arousal increases by wearing the belt.

 

For the configuration stuff, parts of it are there already, particularly the exhibitionist option.

 

I look at the player's arousal in several spots of CD and change commentary depending on what it is.

[BigOnes69]

Can or will there be any reputation based effects on arousal?

[fishburger67]

Whatever is done needs to have a minimal papyrus impact.  SexLab already stores the last sex date and reputation is a complex subject.  Your reputation can be faction replaced or something as simple as relationshiprank, but the latter is pretty limited +/-4 doesn't give much room,  This value is used throughout skyrim to determine dialog options of its various residents and might be used to determine "arousal" potential.

 

As mentioned above, arousal is really the wrong word to use.   Arousal is your current desire to have sex soon.  Interest might lead to arousal and interest might be derived from reputation.

[EternalDamned]

Whatever is done needs to have a minimal papyrus impact.  SexLab already stores the last sex date and reputation is a complex subject.  Your reputation can be faction replaced or something as simple as relationshiprank, but the latter is pretty limited +/-4 doesn't give much room,  This value is used throughout skyrim to determine dialog options of its various residents and might be used to determine "arousal" potential.

 

As mentioned above, arousal is really the wrong word to use.   Arousal is your current desire to have sex soon.  Interest might lead to arousal and interest might be derived from reputation.

 

I like that idea fishburger...using relationshiprank as a multiplier for arousal. -4 could be x0, -3 x0.25. -2 x0.5, -1 x0.75, 0 x1, 1 x1.25, 2 x1.5, 3 x1.75 and 4 x2. Or something like that, so the better your relationship with someone, the more likely you will be able to get them going.