Help with Ancient Greek

[Kuunkulta]

So I have a small problem here and I would really need help from someone who has at least some knowledge of the ancient/classic/attic and modern Greek language. LL probably isn't the best place for this but might as well try

 

Basically all I need is to translate the word "remember" to ancient Greek. I've done some digging online and from Woodhouse's English-Greek dictionary I found "remember - μνησθήναι" but I've been unable to find a second source to confirm the word so I'm a bit cautious about using it. So if by chance anyone has any clue about that I'd be very grateful!

[Redflyingmonkey]

Hah, look for A Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament by Samuel Bloodfield, if I recall correctly there was a verse with the word you are looking for. I tried looking for it on Google books but on the iPhone it seems like it has problems, it's there though I can see it but I can't open it  . There must be an entry with the proper full definition and translation, and the derivatives too. 

 

PS : Yeah I forgot, don't enter your version of the word, just enter the English word "remember" in the search bar and it'll show you an entry, you know how definitions in ancient Greek are they just give the base derivation so it won't look like your version. 

[smithwess]

According to my book,"μέμνημαι (perfect middle present) = I have reminded myself = I remember", hope that helps. The form you put is the infinitive version, I think.

[Antono]

What is the context in which you want to say "remember"? Is it an order i.e. "you must remember"? Is it addressed to one person or many?

 

The reason I ask is because in Greek all this would define the exact version of the verb.

[Kuunkulta]

Well I'll be damned, I seriously didn't expect to get much help with this! I probably should've just gone ahead and post the whole sentence.

 

"Remember Socrates and Pythia."

 

I'm getting a small tattoo to remind myself of the dialogue in Plato's Apology and I thought it'd be appropriate to have it in ancient Greek. Would be quite embarrassing to have a typo in that

[Antono]

I'm a native modern Greek speaker. But, since this not just a mod where one could correct an error, rather it is a tattoo, I'm waiting to hear the opinion of a friend who has a university degree in the Greek language.

 

Stand by...

 

Edit: she's going to look it up to be 100% safe. Let's give her a day or two, all right? Unless of course you get a trustworthy response in the meanwhile, then you'll be good to go too

[Kuunkulta]

I'm a native modern Greek speaker. But, since this not just a mod where one could correct an error, rather it is a tattoo, I'm waiting to hear the opinion of a friend who has a university degree in the Greek language.

 

Stand by...

 

Edit: she's going to look it up to be 100% safe. Let's give her a day or two, all right? Unless of course you get a trustworthy response in the meanwhile, then you'll be good to go too

 

Damn I'll owe you and your friend a big favor for this! I really appreciate it

[van_gelis]

OK i am not actually giving you an answer just a thought after all a tattoo is forever right.
Please don't do it in modern greek it's going to look and sound silly .
It's going to look like that -all caps - ΘΥΜΗΣΟΥ ΤΟΝ ΣΩΚΡΑΤΗ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΝ ΠΥΘΙΑ -.

I also have a crazy tattoo in Greek i did it in the army and now it is a part of me

-well of course it is i am a Greek/Geek  with a tattoo-

cant change that with out a laser or a bullet in the head in my case  

 

[Kuunkulta]

OK i am not actually giving you an answer just a thought after all a tattoo is forever right.

Please don't do it in modern greek it's going to look and sound silly .

It's going to look like that -all caps - ΘΥΜΗΣΟΥ ΤΟΝ ΣΩΚΡΑΤΗ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΝ ΠΥΘΙΑ -.

I also have a crazy tattoo in Greek i did it in the army and now it is a part of me

-well of course it is i am a Greek/Geek  with a tattoo-

cant change that with out a laser or a bullet in the head in my case

 

You forgot skin transfer  

 

But really, thanks for the input! I'm not big on tattoos but the lesson in the referenced dialogue is really important to me and I want to make sure I never forget it. So just planning to have it in small letters in the back of my left arm. And not in all caps! And I'm definitely getting it in ancient Greek, it'll be more interesting that way and a good conversation starter too

[Antono]

So, the phrase in ancient Greek is not very much unlike what van-gelis wrote in modern Greek and it is as follows:

 

 

Μνήσθητι τòν Σωκράτην καὶ τὴν Πυθίαν.

 

Please confirm you can see all the accents (6 in total). To double check, the context of this phrase is that it is spoken as a helpful reminder, a tip or even a command to someone (or to oneself).

[Kuunkulta]

So, the phrase in ancient Greek is not very much unlike what van-gelis wrote in modern Greek and it is as follows:

 

 

Μνήσθητι τòν Σωκράτην καὶ τὴν Πυθίαν.

 

Please confirm you can see all the accents (6 in total). To double check, the context of this phrase is that it is spoken as a helpful reminder, a tip or even a command to someone (or to oneself).

 

Oh that's awesome, thank you so much for going to such lengths to help with this! And thanks to your friend as well! If you ever need something translated to/from Finnish or any other favor just ask and I'll do my best to help!

 

Hah for a bit I was confused about the 6 accents but then I remembered iota doesn't have a dot on it

[Antono]

No problem. Glad to be of assistance.

 

Yes, iota doesn't take an accent by default. I can see you know your Greek!

[van_gelis]

Hmm... maybe not ok i am an irrigation technician (TEI)- junior college- who i have failed in ancient greek courses -maybe something to do with my dutch side or because i am blonde like mom don't know - but i think that expression reminds the thief on the cross next to Jesus please remember me o lord when thy kingdom comes.
Maybe a bit or bite or huge chunk of research needed for such a decision.
My suggestion for the phrase - without taking responsibility - looks something like that '

Μεμνησο τω Σωκρατη περι την Πυθια λεγων sorry for the writing english windows 'anyway and anyhow your choice .

P.S my tatto  all caps

ΑΙΕΝ ΑΡΙΣΤΕΥΕΙΝ

yes all caps .

[jxm]

I'm getting a small tattoo to remind myself of the dialogue in Plato's Apology and I thought it'd be appropriate to have it in ancient Greek. Would be quite embarrassing to have a typo in that

 

Hmm, a typo in ancient greek embarrassing? Probably 90% of tattoos with ancient asian philosophical meanings simply say "pork sweet-sour with rice, 8,00 €" ... If you wanna play safe with tattoos go for the good old burning skull with snakes coming out of the eyesockets - your grandchildren will adore them! (or suffering severe mental disorders if you place it on a part of your body no grandchild ever wants to see ... )

 

[Antono]

Hmm... maybe not ok i am an irrigation technician (TEI)- junior college- who i have failed in ancient greek courses -maybe something to do with my dutch side or because i am blonde like mom don't know - but i think that expression reminds the thief on the cross next to Jesus please remember me o lord when thy kingdom comes.

Maybe a bit or bite or huge chunk of research needed for such a decision.

My suggestion for the phrase - without taking responsibility - looks something like that '

Μεμνησο τω Σωκρατη περι την Πυθια λεγων sorry for the writing english windows 'anyway and anyhow your choice .

P.S my tatto all caps ΑΙΕΝ ΑΡΙΣΤΕΥΕΙΝ

yes all caps .

Doesn't matter if you're an irrigation technician or not, your opinion is valuable and welcome.

 

Yes, the thief said "Μνήσθητί μου Κύριε όταν έλθεις εν τη βασιλεία σου". In our case, though, we will need to use "αιτιατική" instead of "δοτική", so "τον Σωκράτην" instead of "τω Σωκράτη". It's not strange that we'll use αιτιατική. It's rather strange that the thief didn't use it. Maria (my friend) says it's because the verb Μνήσθητι can be used with many versions and take different meanings (for example: "do me a favor Lord and think of me" would probably go with δοτική). I could ask that she confirms it again.

 

You are right about "περί Πυθία λέγων". This would translate to "remember Socrates talking about Pythia". If OP would like this meaning, we can work it out.

 

"Μέμνησο" is also a valid point. The verb, though, is Μνησθήναι, which means "to think" generally. It's only in μέση φωνή that it means "remember", hence the use of προστακτική αορίστου μέσης φωνής (Μνήσθητι). Again, it wouldn't hurt to ask her to confirm this.

[Antono]

I have to add:

 

Van_gelis and OP, there is also the (slightly different) meaning of "remember about Socrates and Pythia". This is probably used with δοτική (τω Σωκράτη), like how the thief used it, but I need to confirm it.

 

This would solve the paradox, van_gelis, don't you think?

[Dubhorizon]

Native Greek here too. According to this http://www.lexigram.gr/lex/arch/%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B8%E1%BF%86%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B9#Hist1

 

μνησθῆναι is the Past Simple Passive voice of the verb μιμνῄσκω which means remember.

 

So μνησθῆναι means was remembered or was thought about.

[van_gelis]

It's all greek to me - i couldn't help my self saying that - ok also it is not ivalid also to use Latin alphabet it may not look cool but it is valid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumae_alphabet#Euboean and maybe use some strange letters,like a small ω (omega with ipogegrameni -that is a silly greek corny joke- ) as you can already tell people even highly educated scholars are going to debate about your tattoo for ages to come Now seriously - i am trying hard here - my suggestion is not totally grammar correct but it
Looks Cool

and that's why i recomend it .

[Antono]

Native Greek here too. According to this http://www.lexigram.gr/lex/arch/%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B8%E1%BF%86%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B9#Hist1

 

μνησθῆναι is the Past Simple Passive voice of the verb μιμνῄσκω which means remember.

 

So μνησθῆναι means was remembered or was thought about.

 

You are right, μνησθῆναι is the passive voice. The active form is μνῆσαι.

 

There is a slight difference between our translations, though: You say μνησθῆναι means "to be remembered" or "to be thought about". So, μνῆσαι would be "to remember"?

 

What Maria says is that the passive form μνησθῆναι means "to remember" and the active form μνῆσαι means "to remind" (someone else). Kinda like the modern equivalent of θυμάμαι/θυμίζω.

 

Does this sound about right to you?

[Kuunkulta]

Everyone's opinion is very much welcome! And I haven't scheduled any date to the tattoo parlor so no deadlines for the conversation! My own Greek knowledge is very very limited so all your help is really appreciated

 

 

I'm getting a small tattoo to remind myself of the dialogue in Plato's Apology and I thought it'd be appropriate to have it in ancient Greek. Would be quite embarrassing to have a typo in that

 

Hmm, a typo in ancient greek embarrassing? Probably 90% of tattoos with ancient asian philosophical meanings simply say "pork sweet-sour with rice, 8,00 €" ... If you wanna play safe with tattoos go for the good old burning skull with snakes coming out of the eyesockets - your grandchildren will adore them! (or suffering severe mental disorders if you place it on a part of your body no grandchild ever wants to see ... )
 

 

 

Lol good point. Couple months ago a Donald Duck comic was released with the Chinese kanji "shit" on the cover   It was released at least here in Finland, Sweden and Norway. Now THAT is embarrassing!

 

 

 

Hmm... maybe not ok i am an irrigation technician (TEI)- junior college- who i have failed in ancient greek courses -maybe something to do with my dutch side or because i am blonde like mom don't know - but i think that expression reminds the thief on the cross next to Jesus please remember me o lord when thy kingdom comes.
Maybe a bit or bite or huge chunk of research needed for such a decision.
My suggestion for the phrase - without taking responsibility - looks something like that '
Μεμνησο τω Σωκρατη περι την Πυθια λεγων sorry for the writing english windows 'anyway and anyhow your choice .
P.S my tatto all caps ΑΙΕΝ ΑΡΙΣΤΕΥΕΙΝ
yes all caps .

Doesn't matter if you're an irrigation technician or not, your opinion is valuable and welcome.

Yes, the thief said "Μνήσθητί μου Κύριε όταν έλθεις εν τη βασιλεία σου". In our case, though, we will need to use "αιτιατική" instead of "δοτική", so "τον Σωκράτην" instead of "τω Σωκράτη". It's not strange that we'll use αιτιατική. It's rather strange that the thief didn't use it. Maria (my friend) says it's because the verb Μνήσθητι can be used with many versions and take different meanings (for example: "do me a favor Lord and think of me" would probably go with δοτική). I could ask that she confirms it again.

You are right about "περί Πυθία λέγων". This would translate to "remember Socrates talking about Pythia". If OP would like this meaning, we can work it out.

"Μέμνησο" is also a valid point. The verb, though, is Μνησθήναι, which means "to think" generally. It's only in μέση φωνή that it means "remember", hence the use of προστακτική αορίστου μέσης φωνής (Μνήσθητι). Again, it wouldn't hurt to ask her to confirm this.

 

 

Socrates talking about Pythia would make sense too as one could interpret it a more direct reference to the original dialog, whereas my original wording "Remember Socrates and Pythia" refers to the persons in a more general manner. Both good though, except Μεμνησο τω Σωκρατη περι την Πυθια λεγων  has more omega's in it. I'm 100% sure the majority of my countrymen will look at it and go like "Oh hey look these letters look like asses!"       Dirty dirty Finns

 

I'll really have to give serious thought to both phrases... But if you guys have any other good suggestions I'm all ears!

[Antono]

Kuunkulta, after re-confirming it, my advice stands as it was initially.

 

 

Μνήσθητι τòν Σωκράτην καὶ τὴν Πυθίαν.

 

Turns out, no matter whether you'd like to say "remember Socrates" or "remember about Socrates", this is the phrase you'd use.

 

It is also reassuring that it obeys the same rules as modern Greek. I am looking forward to responses from the other Greek posters so that we may know if they still have objections. Otherwise, I'll rest my case

[Kuunkulta]

Kuunkulta, after re-confirming it, my advice stands as it was initially.

 

 

Μνήσθητι τòν Σωκράτην καὶ τὴν Πυθίαν.

 

Turns out, no matter whether you'd like to say "remember Socrates" or "remember about Socrates", this is the phrase you'd use.

 

It is also reassuring that it obeys the same rules as modern Greek. I am looking forward to responses from the other Greek posters so that we may know if they still have objections. Otherwise, I'll rest my case

 

Thanks again

[van_gelis]

 

Kuunkulta, after re-confirming it, my advice stands as it was initially.

 

 

Μνήσθητι τòν Σωκράτην καὶ τὴν Πυθίαν.

 

Turns out, no matter whether you'd like to say "remember Socrates" or "remember about Socrates", this is the phrase you'd use.

 

It is also reassuring that it obeys the same rules as modern Greek. I am looking forward to responses from the other Greek posters so that we may know if they still have objections. Otherwise, I'll rest my case

 

Thanks again

 

 

Plus post an image of your tatto .

 

[Guest]

I really enjoyed this little exchange. I have a classicist background and have spent a sizeable chunk of my life immersed in the ancient world, and in my work I have had more than a few encounters with dead language geeks at the coffee machine. So I found this fascinating.

 

Don't forget to post us a pic, I think the guys here have earned it

[Kuunkulta]

Definitely will post pics   Still haven't decided on size and spot. Don't want to make it too big but can't make it too small either or letters will just look messy. Have to go talk with an actual tattoo artist