Realism vs Cheat Mods

[JerseyWalrus]

I have the Dragon Combat Overhaul mod and I enjoy it. It just varies there attack patterns, gives them (in my eyes) sensible attacks like a Tail Stomp and whatnot. It makes it challenging if you're on your own but not so much if you're prepared for it. 

[mybrainhurts]

Let me get my red pen and edit post number 1 ...

 

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I was originally going to post this as a straight rant against mods I don't like. the massive amount of total cheat mods out there.  I'm speaking mainly of skyrim but I know it's true of most other games that have been modded also.  I figured it would be more productive to start a discussion on the merits of realism vs cheating mods though, or just how much realism you all prefer in your game.

 

Personally, I'm NOT a die hard realist.  Frostfall (as an example) adds so much realism it makes the game unplayable to me.  Realistic Needs and Diseases also takes all the fun out.  None the less, I really can't understand the massive amount of mods that I don't like. literally make everything a giveaway in the game.  It seems like 75% of the (pardon my blunt opinion) crap on Steam and the Nexus is just a mod to give more gold, massively pump up perks, shout damage or spell damage, or another weapon with triple the damage of dragonbone gear.  Guess I forgot the OP armor too but you get the idea, lol.

 

But seriously...  Isn't the game easy enough???  I play the game the way I like to play it.  it on master level, it's rarely a challenge and I'm a poor gamer skill wise.  Been playing Street Fighter since SF1 was out and I *STILL* can't consistantly get Ryu to throw a hadou ken.  O_O

 

I like the stuff that I like. some challenge to the games I play.  It makes winning all the more meaningful.  I love just enough realism to aid immersion too.  I do play with Climates of Tamriel and Wet & Cold.  Meh I'm getting incoherent, which tells me it's time for end of rant and time to let others voice an opinion.

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[enkephalin07]

Sometimes you can make a Monty Haul mod without intending to. It takes a 3rd party perspective to know that's where you're going with it. What you started out thinking was reasonable, you can look at it again after editing for awhile and think, "Well, that can be a little more. That's reasonable." And these reasonable incremental tweaks can add up faster than you think. Suddenly your lithe heroine is balloon chested and you've given the players a god-killing artifact.

[Guest corespore]

^Yup, game modding is the digital equivalent of crack-cocaine. One little taste and your hooked. 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

I'll never go back to console. Never. I've been hooked on that digital equivalence for too long. I'm strung.

[Sorus]

skyrim is as hard as you want it to be. if you feel it's too easy there's difficult ways to play it. you're not even on the highest difficulty

 

imo there's nothing wrong with cheat mods just as there's nothing wrong with realism mods, who are u to judge how someone plays the game they paid for and have installed on THEIR computer?

 

 

in my most recent playthrough i did cheat a lot, i've already completed the game several times and i had to delete my last characters saves from corruption... so I don't feel like hunting giants toes and picking up wheats again just to get my alchemy back to where it was! if that's my decision and it makes the game more enjoyable for ME then that's ok!

 

that's the fun of skyrim, everyone can play how they want. some people add a bunch of mods that make it necesarry for them to eat and piss and sleep every few hours and lower their carry weight to be "Realistic" and when you get hit once u die just like if it were real life etc. that's great for them. i don't want that experience lol

 

 

[Taskmaster]

Lately as far as AI is concerned I've been using SkyAI. It's the best thing ever because I'm given the freedom to change what I want. In my Skyrim if I feel that bears should react similar to how vanilla foxes, elks, and deer do, where they run away from any and everyone then I can do that. I could make deer the most aggressive creatures in the wilderness if I please.

 

It's a lot to adjust, just as Skytweak. However, I use the Duke Patrick preset, which uses Duke Patrick's AI changes and it's ALLLLL GOOD!

 

I'm going to have to keep mentioning Skytweak and SkyAI, because I honestly think that they're under appreciated. It will also save you a lot of plugins because they do or have similar features to what a lot of major mods with thousands of endorsements have. 

 

https://sites.google.com/site/grimyskyrim/my-mods/skytweak

https://sites.google.com/site/grimyskyrim/my-mods/miscellaneous

[enkephalin07]

The term 'realism' is so subjectively applied that it's pretty meaningless now. As long as the setting has internal consistency, it doesn't matter how fictional it is, it's still immersive. Bethesda hasn't done such a good job of that, after so many decades of retcons and asspulls and equally shoddy gameplay contrivances, the place is a minefield of plot holes.

 

But it's possible to justify bears' evasiveness and deers' hostility toward humans, so that can be just as immersive as behavior that 'just makes sense' to someone else.

[PsychoMachina]

Videogame realism is subjective.  Some game elements are cheats, but accepted or ignored. 

Do gauntlets and boots offer that much protection that one can survive a devastating blow to the head or a sword to the gut? 

Backpacks and pouches can hold so much items of various sizes even a hoarder would think that's crazy. 

Let's not forget that videogame deaths mean starting from the last save or checkpoint.  Why not be forced to start the game over as a new character (the previous one died; dead is dead).  Now that can be seen as realism.

 

Looks like someone did just that or something close to it.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/57269/?

[guidethisonekalaheria]

I think people should do whatever makes them happy to each their own, I personally do not use cheats but I have been known to save my game add armour or clothing via console to take screenshots then load my previous save file without the items in my inventory.  I try to use texture mods that make the game "lore friendly" but some of the other mods are so pretty I cannot resist lol. As I have played Skyrim so many times it is always fun to add new spells etc to make it more interesting.  

[sorsharavenwing]

I'm not a fan of cheat mods myself, but I get why some people use them. To me getting my ass handed to me is part of the game. Not that the game is that difficult. I alternate between Deadly Dragons and Dragon Combat Overhaul to add a little more challenge. But for the most part, I don't mess with the game's difficulty.

 

Realism in a fantasy game is OK. For a while I played around with mods like Frostfall, Wet and Cold, and, before it became overburdened with bells and whistles, I even had RND for a while. But that isn't necessarily all that important to me. It can become a bit too much of a distraction to remember when last I had a drink of water when trying to focus on the plot.

 

I do like magic mods. I always use Forgotten Magic Redone and Apocalypse: Magic of Skyrim because I tend to like playing pure mages and vanilla magic is just a little too wimpy and boring to make that work well. And I've played with Druid Essentials and Wrath of Nature: Path of the Druid as well. It just gives a bit more of a playable spin to mage-classed characters.

 

I do use one cheat-type mod and that's Oblivious Horses. Because I got sick and frelling tired of my horse dying five minutes after buying the damn thing. Realistic? No. But dammit...

[Mebrilia]

I facepalm everytime someone brings up immersion concerning a TES game. Afterall, talking catmen, flying dragons, magic, vampires, werewolves, and deadric gods. Putting an "immersion" mod in a game with that little basis in reality is like putting a coat of plain paint on a clown-car, in the end it's still a silly thing. I guess if it makes people love the game a little more then i won't fault them for it but that works both ways in that people shouldn't take it personally when we poke fun at their need for game immersion either. Afterall, how many of us dress our Skyrim counterparts in the skimpy "armor" then send them out to face a fire breathing dragon, then you have those other people who will do the exact same thing but say that the crafting or magic system isn't "realistic" 

 

 

I don't agree.... Skyrim is indeed a fantasy setting...But a fantasy world must be stay loyal to his setting with that i don't mean everyone must be lore friendly with their mod setup some people likes to fill skyrim with things out of context and lore and i don't have nothing wrong with that....

 

Immersion comes at least for me... when a world is believable enough to make me feel inside of it.... Morrowind to me was very immersive..Becauce the ammount of lore,politic,religion,fauna,Myth and Legends,flora,drugs was really overwhelming....Some people dislike the word immersion claiming "meh is a fantasy game..." i'd like to quote a phrase one of the skywind team told to another user....

 

"What if tolkien decided is just a children book it does not need language politic structure or culture...can you see now is what add depth"

 

I personally add things lore friendly and i still love to spice of my game with it... I dislike anime stuff.. futas... skimpy armor and stuff like that.. because simply don't belong to the setting.....

 

Is like put link in a terminator movie... Completely out of context

[Guest corespore]

 

I facepalm everytime someone brings up immersion concerning a TES game. Afterall, talking catmen, flying dragons, magic, vampires, werewolves, and deadric gods. Putting an "immersion" mod in a game with that little basis in reality is like putting a coat of plain paint on a clown-car, in the end it's still a silly thing. I guess if it makes people love the game a little more then i won't fault them for it but that works both ways in that people shouldn't take it personally when we poke fun at their need for game immersion either. Afterall, how many of us dress our Skyrim counterparts in the skimpy "armor" then send them out to face a fire breathing dragon, then you have those other people who will do the exact same thing but say that the crafting or magic system isn't "realistic" 

 

 

I don't agree.... Skyrim is indeed a fantasy setting...But a fantasy world must be stay loyal to his setting with that i don't mean everyone must be lore friendly with their mod setup some people likes to fill skyrim with things out of context and lore and i don't have nothing wrong with that....

 

Immersion comes at least for me... when a world is believable enough to make me feel inside of it.... Morrowind to me was very immersive..Becauce the ammount of lore,politic,religion,fauna,Myth and Legends,flora,drugs was really overwhelming....Some people dislike the word immersion claiming "meh is a fantasy game..." i'd like to quote a phrase one of the skywind team told to another user....

 

"What if tolkien decided is just a children book it does not need language politic structure or culture...can you see now is what add depth"

 

I personally add things lore friendly and i still love to spice of my game with it... I dislike anime stuff.. futas... skimpy armor and stuff like that.. because simply don't belong to the setting.....

 

Is like put link in a terminator movie... Completely out of context

 

Actually, i think we agreed on the same thing. It sounds like enjoying the game is the more important aspect instead of modding for "immersion sake". However, i may have stated my point incorrectly. I was trying to think of phrase realism and not immersion. I've always looked at immersion as being engrossed in the game, such as playing it for several hours because you enjoyed the game so much you lost track of time. To me immersion has nothing to do with lore and more to do with being interested in the game.

Realism mods such as food and rest mods are a good idea on paper but those are the ones i have the most difficulty wrapping my head around. It just seems hard for me to believe that the player character can kill a dragon with a dagger but die five minutes later because they got hungry. 

I think that the use of immersion when people really mean realism is what i dis-agree with.

[Mebrilia]

" It just seems hard for me to believe that the player character can kill a dragon with a dagger but die five minutes later because they got hungry. "

 

Eh in that we agree... at least in older RPG killing a dragon was a true goal..... Dragon were usually insanely strong creature.....Unlike skyrim where you in vanilla kill dragons like if you were killing mephit in oblivion......

 

I think frostfall is a nice mod.....Immersive for sure.....I use it and i don't think is so hard how some people claim...Is just a matter of be prepared before you go in travel... This for me add a roleplay opportunity in a RPG....And to me when a mod can enhance my roleplay in a RPG is a nice mod... 

 

But...

 

Let's indeed make a distinction between Realism and Immersion.... Are total different things

 

I also get surprised exist cheat mods for skyrim....Skyrim is so easy....

[Guest Real]

I play character build load outs. start at a high level, build a skill set... pick one set of semi-gdlk gear that sets the mood... then turn the spawns way up and increase ai difficulty. My point being that I play the game differently from most other people. What you call cheats, I use as tools. 

[The_Anon]

I'm going to come clean, I do use a "cheat" mod.  It's removes the shouting cooldown.   

I just think it's silly I have to wait between what is essentialy me opening my mouth and yelling, the cooldown really kills immersion for me.

 

I also don't play on legendary or even master difficulty anymore,  my unarmed legendary mode punchathon run was fun and all but I'm tired of wailing at a seemingly endless enemy healthbar   (Unless you exploit the smithing improvements using weapons doesn't make much difference) and quaffing 20 health potions per fight.

 

Right now I'm playing with a plugin that lets me alter the default weapon and armor effect multipliers, I have both set at max for myself and the NPC's.  The idea in my head is that weapons are very dangerous but much less so if you are well armoured.  I do it in the name of realism, some might consider it to be a cheat.

[TinyDracula]

I don't like to cheat either. Most of the time.

Immersion is all well and good, but let's face it, real life sucks. Too much realism and the game is also going to suck.

I play games to have fun, not to do chores.

Not to say all challenge is bad. Do I want to play something akin to "I Want To Be The Guy?" No. Do I want to mow through the enemies like they're tissue paper? Hell no. Unless it's Dynasty Warriors. lol

 

What I like to do just to dick around while also having a challenge on Oblivion and especially Skyrim is to give myself nearly god-like magics with basically unlimited magicka and then reduce my max HP to 1. Glass cannon status taken to the extreme. lol

 

 

I just think it's silly I have to wait between what is essentialy me opening my mouth and yelling, the cooldown really kills immersion for me.

 

 

This is going off on a tangent but, the science behind the Skyrim shouts is actually interesting.

If you could in real life produce a shout powerful enough to blow someone to pieces, as Ulfric Stormcloak supposedly did, you yourself would also explode.

[Spectre_15]

I use cheat mods in Skyrim because, honestly, I dont enjoy Skyrim at all anymore.  Just hear me out before you respond to this, and try to see it from my perspective.  Im a completionist.  I did my time.  I busted my ass on PS3 and got the platinum trophy, maxed out all the stats, did all the DLC, and everything.  I got it all.  And honestly, I didnt enjoy it.  I got incredibly bored and stopped on several occasions.  When I play on PC, with mods, I don't play to have a challenging and compelling game, I play to see a naked chick kick the shit out of other characters, get laid, fuck a few poor souls that decided to fuck with me, and just relax.  I dont play easy games all too often, but Skyrim is one that I mod specifically to make it easy, so that when Im tired at the end of the day, I can stop playing Doom 2's Plutonia 2 fan-WAD on Ultra-Violence with the Brutal Engine and play a game that wont test my reflexes, but let me relax and I essentially start to fall asleep mentally so I can sleep physically.

[Guest Vendayn]

I play Skyrim for the Skyporn. Cause my character is hot. So I make it as realistic as possible through Sexlab/hdt and what not.

 

I went there! The first to come clean!

[joemonco]

If it weren't for the porn mods there would be no reason to play skyrim, it's really not that good of a game on its own.

[FauxFurry]

One could always split the difference and use the somewhat cheat-y mods which allow NPCs to use the over-powered weaponry or spells as well or use them in concert with the various monster mods.

 

Mods which distribute the new weapons and armor to the leveled list like Guards Got Guns can make certain scenarios trivial while turning others (like the Civil War) into harrowing challenges.

 

Mods like F.E.M.A.L.E. and Deadly Wenches adjusts the gender balance in the game in a way that makes the perk advantages that female characters have in the base game and the expansions just to tilt things slightly further away from cheating without having to install some overhaul mod which alters basic gameplay elements and game balance.