LOOT or BOSS?

[srayesmanll]

Not sure how well LOOT works with non-skyrim games, but these are my thoughts using it with Skyrim:

 

1)  So far, other than a couple of tweaks, the LOOT order seems fine.  Definitely not easthetically pleasing like BOSS (grouping related items like all of the CCOR esps together where possible, same with Khajiit Speak and all of it's esps), but (so far) seems to work.  Again, some things needed to be adjusted by hand but so were some things in BOSS.

 

2)  LOOT is supposed to look in the esps and base it's order on what's being modified by the esp.  So if 2 mods modify the same exact record info but with slightly different values, which one wins?  You have to set the order yourself.  And it's "conflict" display is pretty damn useless if a lot of the mods you use have a bsa (it marks anything with a bsa as a potential "conflict").

 

3)  LOOT user adjustment system is crap compared to BOSS.  In LOOT, I can adjust generically with a number, or I can say "put X under Y".  That seems to be it.  With BOSS user adjustments I could say "put at the bottom of the Item section", "Put at the top of the Magic section", "Put X under Y", "Put X on top of Y", etc).  Granted I'm still looking at LOOT's user adjustment system, but BOSS's user settings seemed to be a hell of a lot more flexible.  And a little more intuitive (LOOT:  "Set a number, we know what it means even if you don't...")

 

4)  To Zippy's point:  (Unless I missed it completely) Why the bloody fuck didn't they have a way to import the damn BOSS user adjustments to the LOOT's user adjustments?  I could not find a way to do it through the LOOT interface.  Maybe it's an easter egg (never could those damn things...)

 

5)  Prideslayer:  The only issue I have with what you are saying about following the instructions, is half the time the only instructions with a mod that mention load order usually say "put at the bottom" (or "near the top").  If 30% of the mods say that, that's a big log jam of mods at the bottom .  I thoroughly agree that experience and testing is better, but tools like BOSS and LOOT should be there to help a noob get started.  Although both BOSS and LOOT should say in great big red letters WE ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT .  Of course, we know how often people actually read things ...

 

 

 

Finally, as far as which one is better, it doesn't really matter.  BOSS masterlist will no longer be updated.  LOOT's non-masterlist system (which is weird to say because doesn't LOOT have a masterlist?   ) will be the only thing updated.  It's not like they will abandon LOOT to go back to the BOSS way of doing things.  So stick with manually adjusting, continue to use the last BOSS release and deal with new mods manually, or go with LOOT and hope they improve it.  Frankly, since I rarely add new mods at this point, I will probably stick with BOSS, although I'll use LOOT to see where it places any new mods I download (after reading the instructions to see if they mention a load order...)

[dje34]

 

 

"Such Knowledge" comes from looking at what a plugin does and looking logically at where it then should go.  Tes4Edit, Wrye, CS or CK and so on are all tools to use in this.

 

I know, it is much longer and interesting to do so, but with 100+ mods it could take a looooooong time.

 

Btw, I've just used LOOT and the sorting is really different from BOSS...

 

It doesn't take that long if you do things "the right way" -- meaning you install one mod at a time, and read the instructions/notes, and make sure it works.

 

This makes it easy to see if you get new problems when adding a new mod without having to open up any utilities at all.

 

Of course if you download 100 mods, install, and activate them all at once, you deserve the horror you're bringing upon yourself. This goes double if you just skim (or completely ignore) the instructions for each one.

 

 

I hear you, but as many modders say 'My mod has to be the last in your load order to work correctly!', a lot of things are buggy in many modded games, Skyrim is one of them.

 

MO is helping but there are some things even MO can't manage with all the mods around.

 

Papyrus is helping too, but Papyrus can't manage everything either.

 

LOOT is helping, cause after testing SexLab mods for 3 hours with a lot of scripted ones and a lot of variables management (meaning going up and down all the time) I got 0 CTD... which is rare ! At least for me.

[gvman3670]

Of course if you download 100 mods, install, and activate them all at once, you deserve the horror you're bringing upon yourself. This goes double if you just skim (or completely ignore) the instructions for each one.

I use Mod Organizer and I can install 200 mods all at once if I want to. Hell, up to 8000 bsa's actually. And with no harm done to anything. I'll just rearrange the mods in the left pane to get the "overwrites" I want then run LOOT to sort plugins. And the game WILL start up afterward.

 

Please tell me you aren't still manually installing and manually sorting.

[prideslayer]

 

Of course if you download 100 mods, install, and activate them all at once, you deserve the horror you're bringing upon yourself. This goes double if you just skim (or completely ignore) the instructions for each one.

I use Mod Organizer and I can install 200 mods all at once if I want to. Hell, up to 8000 bsa's actually. And with no harm done to anything. I'll just rearrange the mods in the left pane to get the "overwrites" I want then run LOOT to sort plugins. And the game WILL start up afterward.

 

Please tell me you aren't still manually installing and manually sorting.

 

Yeah, that's me, mr. manual install. I maintain a fork of FOMM just for the hell of it, because the code is so beautiful.

 

Manual install, never. Manual sort, always. I'm smarter than BOSS and LOOT.

[gvman3670]

Yeah, that's me, mr. manual install. I maintain a fork of FOMM just for the hell of it, because the code is so beautiful.

 

Manual install, never. Manual sort, always. I'm smarter than BOSS and LOOT.

I hear you. But in my case I've never had any issues (yet anyway) with LOOT doing the sorting for me. I have with BOSS, but that's only because the masterlist wasn't updated and I had new mods. Hell, LOOT does the same thing I'd do....I'd read the descriptions, check for dependencies then order accordingly. Regardless of how the order "looks" LOOT it still starts up and even makes some sorting choices I'd do without me telling it to.

[prideslayer]

Oh I'm sure LOOT is (or soon will be) much better than BOSS. I just haven't had a reason to use either. I manually sort just fine. My priorities for what things from what mods should potentially overwrite what others isn't going to be the same as the consensus that builds the load order files for BOSS/LOOT.

 

That said I also just tend to avoid mods that have conflicts with others I want to begin with.

[germanicus]

Someone already said in one of previous posts: "I wish I can be smart enough to manually sort my mods, but I'm not". Plus, I have extra difficulty - English is not my native language. So, the people like me are glad that there programs like BOSS and LOOT. So, far, I found LOOT little bit advanced then BOSS.

[gvman3670]

Oh I'm sure LOOT is (or soon will be) much better than BOSS. I just haven't had a reason to use either. I manually sort just fine. My priorities for what things from what mods should potentially overwrite what others isn't going to be the same as the consensus that builds the load order files for BOSS/LOOT.

 

That said I also just tend to avoid mods that have conflicts with others I want to begin with.

 

LOOT doesn't run on a masterlist like BOSS did. Instead it looks for required files and builds the load order accordingly, just the same as doing it manually. It's just faster and as a bonus it puts up warnings about potential issues and dirty edits that need cleaned.

 

However, you can report issues when/if you find a strange situation where something needs to be ordered differently than what mods typically require. The program will be updated and should continually become even better.

[prideslayer]

 

Oh I'm sure LOOT is (or soon will be) much better than BOSS. I just haven't had a reason to use either. I manually sort just fine. My priorities for what things from what mods should potentially overwrite what others isn't going to be the same as the consensus that builds the load order files for BOSS/LOOT.

 

That said I also just tend to avoid mods that have conflicts with others I want to begin with.

 

LOOT doesn't run on a masterlist like BOSS did. Instead it looks for required files and builds the load order accordingly, just the same as doing it manually. It's just faster and as a bonus it puts up warnings about potential issues and dirty edits that need cleaned.

 

My FOMM version maintained here does that itself as well now, so no need for anything external, though there's nothing in there for those 'special cases' like you mention -- but those are pretty player specific anyway.

[gvman3670]

Yeah, those cases are pretty rare.

 

I still have and use FOMM occasionally for extracting bsas. My newest install FONV is using MO for management, though.

[Nergui]

I manually sort, but I still run new stuff passed LOOT (report only) and TES5Edit.

[Desiree42]

LOOT is better for mods you get from this site. BOSS doesn't reconginize a lot of the sexlab mods

[AstarteN7]

I use loot to get my initial load order before manually sorting them afterwards because LOOT is only a generalize list.

[...0...]

BOSS is outdated.

 

LOOT is up to date its also alot better at least for me.

[Guest Lehshara]

OFC LOOT.

Why would I use old outdated tool when I can use new updated version?

[guidethisonekalaheria]

I use LOOT and it works well for me.

[sorsharavenwing]

I've had no issues with LOOT hosing my load order, but I haven't tried it for anything other than Skyrim. It is a little processor intensive, sure. But it's managed to keep the game running. I've been playing this runthrough for several hours a day for the past week and a half and I haven't CTD'ed yet. With BOSS not being updated anymore and the number of new mods I've downloaded since the last update, it didn't make sense for me to keep using it. So my vote is for LOOT.

[hi11defense]

Boss broke my load order. Loot fixed it.