Questions for anyone who uses PuppetMaster

[Fredas]

I have been whiling away some time slapping together a couple of tweaks to Puppet Master.  Had a couple of quick questions for anyone who uses it.  Both pertain to the PuppetMaster command subcategory "I had something else in mind."

 

1) When using any of the four options in this subcategory, what would you say is the duration of the result?  (For me, it's less than 10 seconds.)

 

2) When using either of the first two options, does the resulting animation make sense visually, in terms of what the PuppetMaster command was?  (For me, it plays the first scene of Arrok Lesbian, which has both actors standing / hugging, and this does not agree with the intent of the command.)

 

Since this mod seems to have been abandoned, and I consider these two aspects to be broken, I will be attempting to correct them.  But I want to make sure the phenomena I experience are of a universal nature.

 

[dje34]

I have been whiling away some time slapping together a couple of tweaks to Puppet Master.  Had a couple of quick questions for anyone who uses it.  Both pertain to the PuppetMaster command subcategory "I had something else in mind."

 

1) When using any of the four options in this subcategory, what would you say is the duration of the result?  (For me, it's less than 10 seconds.)

 

2) When using either of the first two options, does the resulting animation make sense visually, in terms of what the PuppetMaster command was?  (For me, it plays the first scene of Arrok Lesbian, which has both actors standing / hugging, and this does not agree with the intent of the command.)

 

Since this mod seems to have been abandoned, and I consider these two aspects to be broken, I will be attempting to correct them.  But I want to make sure the phenomena I experience are of a universal nature.

 

1) less than 10 sec for me too.

 

2) didn't try 

[Fredas]

Thanks.

 

Anyone want to just briefly try out one of the first two options in the "something else in mind" subcategory, to see if you get standing animations for both actors?

 

[begalund]

I didn't specifically time any of the animations, but I can report that they aren't playing what they used to do.  At one point in time this  portion of the mod did work correctly.  When that was specifically, I can't remember, but I do know that it worked.  As I use mod organizer I've been investigating conflicts and stability issues (and attempting to figure out papyrus logging - but that's another issue entirely).  I can report that at least in my current mod setup, no other mods are over-writing or conflicting with puppetmaster in any way, so it isn't a mod conflict, and it isn't an animation overwrite or conflict issue.  I just think that the scripts got crossed somewhere during the packaging.

 

But yes, it is broken for all of the alternatives you are wanting.  I happen to play a female character, and it was broken for both F/F and F/M options in either direction, either variation.

[hryh23k9823u]

TBH I only use this mod for the scat and bdsm poses, mainly to shut up Lydia. I find all other features redundant with mods that does what this does, but better, at best, to 'puppetize' some custom NPC than EFF can't catch for any reason... And for just sex, I prefer  the 'chatting' part of Submit, certainly it uses all available animations, foreplays, etc., with the plus of increasing/decreasing the relation with the NPC, taunts, and other features...

 

BUT now that I'm here, and got Puppet Master, I'm gonna test what you ask.

[hryh23k9823u]

Nvm what I said, preciselly the 'something else in mind' is the 'fun' part of the mod

 

1) 8-9 seconds

2) Allways Arrok Lesbian in F-F context, in F-M it's Arrok Lesbian aswell for the first option and Skull Fuck for the second

 

I guess the author left it like that waiting for some appropiate 'pee in the mouth' animations :-3

[TheOzoneHole]

1) About 10-15 second, I've never really timed it (and sex seems to be broken already on my newest char).

2) Usually Arrok Lesbian, but once or twice I've seen something that might pass itself off as pee in mouth, but my char didn't play an obvious pee animation and no particle effects, so not really sure. 

 

If you could fix this that would be cool, because, as with Lother, I mainly use it to torment people like Lydia. Though I've had fun taking Anska to the middle of nowhere and leaving her tied up to be eaten by trolls.

[Fredas]

(Away from pc) Well, I asked everyone and everywhere I could think of, including the mod's author and the author of SexLab, and have been resoundingly ignored by all. So far as I can tell, PuppetMaster never had any code in that might seem to attempt to force it to start at the correct stage to enact the correct animation, so my conclusion is that the Arrok Lesbian animation itself originally began with the correct animation, which is now actually stage two.

 

The closest I have come to fixing this is to force stage 1 to play for as short a time as possible. 0 seconds unfortunately still allows it to play for about 1 second. I have made the suggestion that future iterations of SexLab permit stages to be skipped outright.

 

I have big plans for this facet of PuppetMaster. Things like compatibility with PrivateNeeds and iNeed, and enhancements to the sounds and maybe even the visuals. Interested?

[TheOzoneHole]

Visuals yes, and compatibility with Realistic Needs & Diseases would be nice. Sound I don't really care about, I turn the sound down for everything sex lab & LL related.

[begalund]

Visuals certainly; sound would probably be nice for some (although I don't care much myself).  I don't use the RND mods, because for me there comes to be a time when too much realism ends up taking over all my time. 

 

"Hey maybe I'll actually do a quest."  

 

Attempts to travel someplace.  Starts to get cold (frostfall), tries to build fire, needs to harvest wood, finally has fire going but now gets hungry, tries to eat, has no food so goes hunting, ends up cold so drags carcass back to fire, cooks food, fire goes out, gathers more wood for fire, is now tired, sets up tent and sleeps,

 

wakes up in snowstorm, fire has gone out, is hungry, thirsty, has no more wood, is freezing to death, and is being attacked by a pack of werewolves.  Assuming she survives the fight, she'll probably freeze to death trying to gather enough wood to rebuild the fire to not freeze to death, so that she can go hunting again, and then find water,by which point she'll likely be tired...

 

Thirteen weeks later the poor girl stumbles out of the forest having finally reached her original destination.  She's gained 12 levels, is permanently scarred from constant fights, frostbite, and having fallen through the ice trying to refill her water flask.  She's 9 weeks pregnant with some creature's child, and has at least one or two venereal diseases.  She smells worse than a dung heap, her clothes and armor are in complete tatters and quite beyond repair.

 

"It's taken me 14 hours of game play to get there, and for the love of all that is holy I can't even remember what quest I was going to go work on."

 

So yeah, throw in the escapism sex mods.  Give me fantasy and whatever level of debauchery floats your boat.  And if you want to tie it in with the realism mods that's fine too.  It just won't be anywhere near as interesting to me if that becomes the focus.

[hryh23k9823u]

I have big plans for this facet of PuppetMaster. Things like compatibility with PrivateNeeds and iNeed, and enhancements to the sounds and maybe even the visuals. Interested?

 

Yes. Please.

[Pinute]

Visuals certainly; sound would probably be nice for some (although I don't care much myself).  I don't use the RND mods, because for me there comes to be a time when too much realism ends up taking over all my time. 

 

"Hey maybe I'll actually do a quest."  

 

Attempts to travel someplace.  Starts to get cold (frostfall), tries to build fire, needs to harvest wood, finally has fire going but now gets hungry, tries to eat, has no food so goes hunting, ends up cold so drags carcass back to fire, cooks food, fire goes out, gathers more wood for fire, is now tired, sets up tent and sleeps,

 

wakes up in snowstorm, fire has gone out, is hungry, thirsty, has no more wood, is freezing to death, and is being attacked by a pack of werewolves.  Assuming she survives the fight, she'll probably freeze to death trying to gather enough wood to rebuild the fire to not freeze to death, so that she can go hunting again, and then find water,by which point she'll likely be tired...

 

Thirteen weeks later the poor girl stumbles out of the forest having finally reached her original destination.  She's gained 12 levels, is permanently scarred from constant fights, frostbite, and having fallen through the ice trying to refill her water flask.  She's 9 weeks pregnant with some creature's child, and has at least one or two venereal diseases.  She smells worse than a dung heap, her clothes and armor are in complete tatters and quite beyond repair.

 

"It's taken me 14 hours of game play to get there, and for the love of all that is holy I can't even remember what quest I was going to go work on."

 

So yeah, throw in the escapism sex mods.  Give me fantasy and whatever level of debauchery floats your boat.  And if you want to tie it in with the realism mods that's fine too.  It just won't be anywhere near as interesting to me if that becomes the focus.

 

Ha. For me it's the journey that's the point - a quest is only a reason to get me off my arse and into the wilderness

[aqqh]

Visuals certainly; sound would probably be nice for some (although I don't care much myself).  I don't use the RND mods, because for me there comes to be a time when too much realism ends up taking over all my time. 

 

"Hey maybe I'll actually do a quest."  

 

Attempts to travel someplace.  Starts to get cold (frostfall), tries to build fire, needs to harvest wood, finally has fire going but now gets hungry, tries to eat, has no food so goes hunting, ends up cold so drags carcass back to fire, cooks food, fire goes out, gathers more wood for fire, is now tired, sets up tent and sleeps,

 

wakes up in snowstorm, fire has gone out, is hungry, thirsty, has no more wood, is freezing to death, and is being attacked by a pack of werewolves.  Assuming she survives the fight, she'll probably freeze to death trying to gather enough wood to rebuild the fire to not freeze to death, so that she can go hunting again, and then find water,by which point she'll likely be tired...

 

Thirteen weeks later the poor girl stumbles out of the forest having finally reached her original destination.  She's gained 12 levels, is permanently scarred from constant fights, frostbite, and having fallen through the ice trying to refill her water flask.  She's 9 weeks pregnant with some creature's child, and has at least one or two venereal diseases.  She smells worse than a dung heap, her clothes and armor are in complete tatters and quite beyond repair.

 

"It's taken me 14 hours of game play to get there, and for the love of all that is holy I can't even remember what quest I was going to go work on."

 

So yeah, throw in the escapism sex mods.  Give me fantasy and whatever level of debauchery floats your boat.  And if you want to tie it in with the realism mods that's fine too.  It just won't be anywhere near as interesting to me if that becomes the focus.

If it would be realistic then a single deer you hunt down would be enough for at least a week for a single girl.

Finding a water with a snow all around you is only a matter of melting it in a efficient manner.

[Fredas]

 

I have big plans for this facet of PuppetMaster. Things like compatibility with PrivateNeeds and iNeed, and enhancements to the sounds and maybe even the visuals. Interested?

 

Yes. Please.

 

Believe it or not, I got most of the above working now.  What I'm trying to do now is simplify and tighten my changes.  I briefly considered trying to move all of my changes to their own script, but unfortunately too many of the PuppetMaster script's resources are self-contained and it would literally be impossible.  So when the time comes, my modification will unavoidably come in the form of a replacement script.  I consider it a feat that I managed to get it done without needing to require any of the supported mods (three in total).

 

I also need to take another hard look at the Arrok Lesbian problem because even my pseudo-fix has suddenly stopped working correctly.

 

One thing I didn't improve is visuals.  There are one or two things I'd like to have done here.  The one I was thinking about when I posited the possibility of visual improvements is based on my observation that the 3rd and 4th choices in the "something else" category both briefly produce a semen-on-skin effect.  I haven't yet investigated whether this was an incidental byproduct of calling upon SexLab's animation functions, or something PuppetMaster's author threw in as a sort of placeholder for a more appropriate visual effect.  An obvious improvement there would be to modify the color (which is white).

 

Oh, my other mod (you know the one; I made a big thread a while ago, begging people to write it) is actually technically done (functional).  Funny thing is it currently won't work until the author of SKSE releases a new version of his mod which my mod relies upon.  We spent a couple of days troubleshooting the issue before he realized he'd fixed the bug but hadn't released a version with said fix.

[begalund]

 

 

<trim>

If it would be realistic then a single deer you hunt down would be enough for at least a week for a single girl.

Finding a water with a snow all around you is only a matter of melting it in a efficient manner.

 

 

This is ranging a bit far afield from the point of this thread, so I'll keep it short:

 

I agree completely.  I always found the realism mods to be scaled way too far in the hardcore direction. Water was too difficult to gather. You could never get enough food out of a single killed animal.  Those stupid snowberries are everywhere and apparently edible, but they don't give any food value?  

 

And while I appreciate the concept of being cold in snowy lands, by the time you are wearing a complete suit of fur armor, cloak, and have frost resist of 75%+, you really shouldn't freeze to death while jogging between Morthal and Dawnstar.

 

 

Now to get back on topic, I'm glad to hear that progress is being made on this mod again.  I miss the animations I used to have with it.  

[Fredas]

Still busy at work on this.  Literally as busy as I could possibly be.  This item is something I'd been meaning to ask about:

 

Now to get back on topic, I'm glad to hear that progress is being made on this mod again.  I miss the animations I used to have with it.  

 

I don't have any real history with the mod, so I don't actually know what animations you may be referring to.  I fully admit that my changes to the mod are focusing on one specific aspect of it, and I have actually not even so much as glanced at much of what it enables.  The animation that got broken by this or that update to SexLab is the "Arrok Lesbian", which was meant to either begin at or immediately progress to stage 2.  The only fix for this is to move to stage 2 as quickly as possible (on the order of one second).

 

[begalund]

Still busy at work on this.  Literally as busy as I could possibly be.  This item is something I'd been meaning to ask about:

 

Now to get back on topic, I'm glad to hear that progress is being made on this mod again.  I miss the animations I used to have with it.  

 

I don't have any real history with the mod, so I don't actually know what animations you may be referring to.  I fully admit that my changes to the mod are focusing on one specific aspect of it, and I have actually not even so much as glanced at much of what it enables.  The animation that got broken by this or that update to SexLab is the "Arrok Lesbian", which was meant to either begin at or immediately progress to stage 2.  The only fix for this is to move to stage 2 as quickly as possible (on the order of one second).

 

Well then, maybe I'm missing something.  But the original point of this thread was a question raised about some animations which seemed short in duration, and then some items which were missing.  Specifically those items that fell under the "I had something else in mind" dialogue option.  Once upon a time, when those options were chosen the puppet could be forced to participate as a partner with certain bodily functions - either as the giver or receiver.  

 

The solo variants of those functions still work on the puppet (although no PM version exists to target the player - since real needs mods tend to handle those).  However, when the partner versions are chosen the animations now drop to default oral sex - either male/male, male/female, or female/female depending on the player/puppet respective genders.

 

I remember playing around with an earlier version of PM where the partner options worked as expected - but sadly I don't think I still have that early version saved.  Even then I don't know where the animations for the partner options ever came from originally, or how they were implemented.  

 

I just know that forcing one of the jarls or my housecarl to take a particularly golden shower from me isn't quite the same when the animations aren't showing up as expected.

[Fredas]

The solo variants of those functions still work on the puppet (although no PM version exists to target the player - since real needs mods tend to handle those).  However, when the partner versions are chosen the animations now drop to default oral sex - either male/male, male/female, or female/female depending on the player/puppet respective genders.

 

I remember playing around with an earlier version of PM where the partner options worked as expected - but sadly I don't think I still have that early version saved.  Even then I don't know where the animations for the partner options ever came from originally, or how they were implemented.  

 

I just know that forcing one of the jarls or my housecarl to take a particularly golden shower from me isn't quite the same when the animations aren't showing up as expected.

 

I certainly would be keen on getting confirmation on this, but I admit I have my doubts.  Puppet Master first got released in late November of last year.  In mid-December, the author outlined how the animations were being achieved: the repurposing of certain preexisting animations.  As I am now quite intimately familiar with the related components of the mod's script, I can confirm this.  Besides which, every release of Puppet Master is still up for grabs.

 

I will say one thing, though.  One day I took the time to scan through every available animation pairing to see if anything might be a good match for the kind of activity you describe.  The short of it is: no, every animation sequence is a body-on-body pairing of one flavor or another, and in the end it felt almost like a miracle that there were animation pairings suitable for what does exist in Puppet Master.  Certainly there are exasperatingly few (almost none, really) mouth-to-pelvis pairings of appropriate (no schlong) positioning, so even that much was out the window.  Furthermore, the state of SexLab's positioning is automatically a little broken, as actors of the wrong size / scale will fail to meet up in the intended or at least a predictable way.  (Scale issues include gender-universal animations or characters with non-1.0 scaling such as Nel.)

 

That said, if I could find a quick and reliable substitute for SexLab's positioning sequence - one which returns reliable results regardless of scaling complications - and I could use said substitute while still taking advantage of the rest of SexLab's thread sequence (the sounds, at least) - then I would be tempted to set up such scenarios myself, using custom animation pairings, ie the two actors using animations from different sequences.  Since all that is an insane pipe dream, it's just about the only thing I begrudgingly decided not to do.  (And even then, the results would probably not be super, since the collision system in Skyrim is a dramatic failure, as my last two days of painstaking effort prove.)

[begalund]

Oh okay, I think I understand the issue now.  As I admitted above, I never particularly looked into the animations - I'm having enough trouble with simple modding exercises like texturing armor (heh).  Whatever it was I got lucky enough to experience was probably a happenstance occurrence.  A chance meeting of the right combination of matching sexlab version, PM version, and compatible models.  

 

Although, if I might offer an alternative suggestion - you could always implement a standing/laying down pairing.  One where the dominant partner stands over the submissive one and takes the called upon action.  It wouldn't be exactly the same, but it would avoid all of the collision issues, scaling issues, and still allow for the basic intended flavor.  If one was really ambitious you could even add in an option to apply a "wet" effect afterwards ...

 

But only if you were really ambitious of course.

[Parky]

I would like the ability to summon individual puppets, rather than the "all" It would be nice to tag them to another follower to their slave and perhaps that triggers behaviours like sex, making food.

[Fredas]

Although, if I might offer an alternative suggestion - you could always implement a standing/laying down pairing.  One where the dominant partner stands over the submissive one and takes the called upon action.  It wouldn't be exactly the same, but it would avoid all of the collision issues, scaling issues, and still allow for the basic intended flavor.

 

This suggestion is more or less what I was referring to before, ie using animations out of their sequence for an unintended effect.  I am all for it; the difficulty remains that I am effectively at the mercy of the extant processes (meaning SexLab) when it comes to certain critical tasks, specifically the positioning of actors.  If you've ever scrutinized that process as it happens, then you know: It is dodgy.  And it's not the author's fault.  Something like three different repositionings take place and it's apparently all done to counter the inherent unreliability of Skyrim's related functions.

 

In order to achieve even the seemingly trivial outcome you propose, I would need a substitute process for actor positioning, for no less a reason than SexLab's positioning system relies upon variables set up to match animations of specific pairings, and simply does not contain the means for placing actors in arbitrary positions.  This is certainly not to say that I never see myself rummaging through SexLab to scavenge what I need and building it up personally.

 

If one was really ambitious you could even add in an option to apply a "wet" effect afterwards ...

 

But only if you were really ambitious of course.

 

You'll get a taste of my ambition with this facet of Puppet Master once I have it ready.  Yesterday I came up with a rather interesting idea and I'm debating whether or not to put it into effect before release.  I pretty much loathe releasing something that I know is not as finished as I could make it.

[Parky]

Beyond the sex side, i find it useful for getting NPC to do stuff for you and recruit bandits to take on other nasties, not sure if there is a way to change the faction using puppet master?

[Fredas]

Despite what the passage of time would suggest, I am still busying away on this. Yesterday I conquered the last truly large issue (the phenomenon of NPCs swapping their own gear unpredictably) so I can say with some confidence that the final result should be worth the wait. Few things to tweak, cleanup, etc. I hope.

 

40% of the time invested in this was me learning stuff. Another 40% was soaked up by various bugs and shortcomings with the CK and Papyrus. So if I had to start all over, at least it would only take a couple of weeks.

[akandakalaa]

I do not really understand why but Puppet Master is working:

- It is not crashing my game

- I can pee and defecate where I want

- I can enslave a NPC - follow-me works. Stay and feel nothing also (may be the original text slightly is different - I using a French version -

But all rest of the animation are not running - no sex no way to undress... NPCs says "I understand" and nothing is happening.

SexLab works totally fine and so does Zaz animation..