Getting started with modding.

[OodlesOfDoodles]

I often use too many words, so I'll start this off with a nutshell, and then elaborate: 

I see a lot of WIP mods have threads with sharing of ideas, and help with specifics happening. 

Would it be unwelcome if I sought help in a similar manner for my first mod?

 

I've run through many hours of tutorials, so I'm feeling pretty comfortable in the toolset. However the tutorials tend to focus on creating things in the world, which isn't something that I'm really interested in doing at the moment, at least not until I'm confident I have the skills to do a proper job of it with scripting and the like. 

Where my passion is currently lying is the idea of making little "flavour" mods (I wanted to say "companion mods", but that implies something different in a Skyrim context). Just little mods that breath a little life into parts of the game (since I'm posting here, I'm obviously thinking of sex at the moment). 

The problem is that there's pretty big gap between what the tutorials are teaching me, and creating a flavour mod with bells and whistles (and an MCM menu).

 

Another problem for me is that I'm terribly polite, so it doesn't feel right to go into the details of my mod plan mere moments after floating the question of whether I could/should. 

 

[Guest]

Would it be unwelcome if I sought help in a similar manner for my first mod?   NEVER !!  you must ask to know if u dont ask u newer know ^^ and knowledge ca never be to much so just ask away

 

first question in what sex dircetion are u going to? more visual or more dialoge or more interact? +animations ,cant help u if u dont tell what u want, if u new on modding start with basic, the skyrim setup in folders,what things are, what is skyrim hkx, how do i work with creationkit http://www.creationkit.com/,so on, do some reasearch, this forum is very good and this http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/  ,get some understading then u mod and upload it here and it will rock

[quin666]

Good luck with modding.

[RitualClarity]

This site is geared towards Modders and Modders tools and information exchanges first and foremost.

 

This is the site that you can feel comfortable asking technical questions on modding to help create your mods.

 

Everybody has to start somewhere so don't be embarrassed to ask any questions r/t modding and how to.

 

Being polite as you are will only gain you many members appreciation and assistance in your future needs and information. Don't worry about making mistakes. I have made a few very big ones here   and I am still here. They even made me a contributor!

 

Good luck on your modding projects and hope you enjoy what the community has to offer!

[OodlesOfDoodles]

This site is geared towards Modders and Modders tools and information exchanges first and foremost.

 

This is the site that you can feel comfortable asking technical questions on modding to help create your mods.

 

Everybody has to start somewhere so don't be embarrassed to ask any questions r/t modding and how to.

 

Being polite as you are will only gain you many members appreciation and assistance in your future needs and information. Don't worry about making mistakes. I have made a few very big ones here   and I am still here. They even made me a contributor!

 

Good luck on your modding projects and hope you enjoy what the community has to offer!

The main reason for my hesitance is that a lot of my questions would be incredibly basic knowledge when put next to such titans as some of the framework mods and all. 

The sort of knowledge that just comes naturally to someone with modding, and is therefore not as enthusiastically documented as some of the more advanced and interesting stuff

Thanks for the encouragement, it's valuable for someone just starting out

 

Good luck with modding.

Cheers! 

Hopefully I won't need too much of it.

 

Would it be unwelcome if I sought help in a similar manner for my first mod?   NEVER !!  you must ask to know if u dont ask u newer know ^^ and knowledge ca never be to much so just ask away

 

first question in what sex dircetion are u going to? more visual or more dialoge or more interact? +animations ,cant help u if u dont tell what u want, if u new on modding start with basic, the skyrim setup in folders,what things are, what is skyrim hkx, how do i work with creationkit http://www.creationkit.com/,so on, do some reasearch, this forum is very good and this http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/  ,get some understading then u mod and upload it here and it will rock

I've bookmarked your links, because you can never have too many reference sources. Well, I guess you can, but that's less of a problem than not having enough. 

I'll elaborate on the mod I'm hoping to make as my first one below, to describe the sort of mod I'm interested in making, and as a foundation for getting pointers on where to start (that's always one of the hardest parts for me). 

 

The idea: 

I was inspired by Murfk's Slave Tats mod (which I love, by the way). 

A few of the tattoos are tallies, which are clearly there to count things, although since they're single textures they don't really count anything. 

So I got to thinking that a nice place to start would be to have textures for different tally counts for different sex types, and switch between them based on stats pulled from Sexlab. But then I thought more on it, and figured that while sexlab stats would be a nice place start (although the actual start would probably be an MCM options menu for testing), contextual body writing/marking would be much more better. 

 

Thus far, I've managed to create an MCM menu (that took a while, because I had to learn the hard way how much the Creation Kit doesn't like to play when run through Mod Organizer). 

I'm a little confused on where to go from there (essentially where to start). 

Should I focus on a single option in the MCM menu for a single tally set, and have it update the overlay when I leave the MCM menu? 

Or is there something more fundamental I need to focus on?

[RitualClarity]

 

The main reason for my hesitance is that a lot of my questions would be incredibly basic knowledge when put next to such titans as some of the framework mods and all. 

The sort of knowledge that just comes naturally to someone with modding, and is therefore not as enthusiastically documented as some of the more advanced and interesting stuff

Thanks for the encouragement, it's valuable for someone just starting out

 

I couldn't even post in a spoiler and for over a month I couldn't even post a picture on this thread. I am not a user of forums. I used the Nexus to get mods and that is about it. Many of these "Titans" were the ones that helped me understand even these basic functions of the forum.

 

As I stated before I am not a modder. I gained understanding of basic fixes and how things were done and then moved to basic structure and function of the game engine and some of the tools. Each and every step many of the "titans" and other members helped me understand. They did this willingly I believe because I helped others and spread the knowledge and I was willing to put forward the effort needed to accomplish whatever task I wanted to do.

 

Now I will admit that it might be frowned upon if you started jumping in to an very advanced tech thread like animations and or texture blending and asked some very basic question like how to install the program. Watch the tone of the thread as anywhere else. If it is a very advanced thread avoid posting there. If basic needs are desired and you can't find it post a question. You will find many of newer members are quite skilled in various activities of modding, and many times these Titans will jump in for some quick help and aid as well.

 

I have read some of your post. I believe you are well on your way to become one of these "Titans" yourself if you are willing to put forth the work and effort. Keep up the post and tone and you will find that many of the knowledgeable members will be more than willing to help you even with some of the most basic functions of modding. Very much like many have done for me.

 

 

[Laura]

Nobody will hate you for asking, a new modder is always great!

I'm not a modder myself but, welcome aboard!

[zax]

If I was you (assuming you really have no scripting knowledge at all), I would forget about writing Frameworks and SexLab plugins for now and start from scripting tutorials.

 

You will NEVER understand whats going on in SexLab and other big mods if you lack of basic scripting/programming knowledge.

 

I suggest starting here: http://www.cipscis.com/skyrim/tutorials/  (VERY useful for beginners)

then here: http://www.creationkit.com - scripting tutorials

then start reading functions/events of different objects eventually: http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Script_Objects - to know what you can and cant do in papyrus

 

(this is all assuming that you have no exp in programming)

[OodlesOfDoodles]

I wouldn't say I'm a complete newbie with coding, but I'm pretty rusty. 

My recent endeavours have pulled me more towards internets-related coding, which has left me... I guess "misaligned". My mind's in the right place (as much as it ever is), but nothing's quite where I expect it to be. 

Links and tutorials are always awesome, though. Back when I used to mod Neverwinter Nights, I had no tutorials (or internet), being able to look stuff up is a blessing.

[RitualClarity]

Sounds like you are right where you should be here on LL. I am sure with your experience you should be up and running with LL members help in no time at all.

[Princessity]

Ooooh I remember trying to write scripts in NWN too! But I never managed to do lots because it was too complicated for me ^^

 

But if you're really determined and don't let the kinda intimidating look of papyrus scare you off you'll be making amazing mods soon! *Encouragementhugs Oodles*

 

When I came to Skyrim from Oblivion and saw how totally different the scripting language was I was terrified buuuut the wiki tutorials and function references were very useful! Especially now because they also include SKSE functions that make scripting way easier than it used to be when Skyrim first came out. The weird workarounds that were needed for like lots of simple things were awfuuuuuul...

 

But I think the most useful resources are other mods! When I don't know how to do something I usually try to find a mod on nexus that does something similar and look how it did it. I started making Vampiric Thirst without really understanding most things about how skyrim works (I quickly discovered the answer is: nothing like Oblivion and Morrowind) but reading the wiki, testing other mods and asking for help on loverslab and bethesda's forum helped me refine my methods over time ^^

 

I think lots of modders are afraid of scripting because it requires lots of research before you can start but i think it's rewarding in the end! Ummmmmm... if you can ignore the constant frustration at what a mess Skyrim is n_n

 

Actuallyyyyyy.... nuh! Forget everything I just said! The real key to modding skyrim is embracing the illogic of everything! Sooner or later it will drive you crazeh so the less you resist it the less painful it will be! Once you become attuned to Papyrus's little quirks that make no sense everything will start to make sense xD

[OodlesOfDoodles]

Continuing thanks for the feedbacks, with additional "OMG!" for replies from Ms Leeches and ritualclarity. 

I have a certain fondness for Ms Leeches' two latest mods, and I'm sure I recognise her name from somewhere beyond those two. 

And ritualclarity, I just realised, I recognised from the Fallout New Vegas forums. 

Papyrus and CK are driving me to drink, and as a result I'm getting starstruck

 

I'm pondering putting the body writing mod on the back burner for now. 

The bulk of work on it is scripting-based, so progress will not only be slow as I learn at every little stage, but there are very few points between "this is kind of working a little bit" and "this is actually doing what it's supposed to". 

I think I should just suck it up and follow through some tutorials (again), but taking time out along the way to make it more than just the product of following instructions.

[Princessity]

Hihihi you may know me from SWTOR, STO, DCU or billions other MMOs I play when I'm hiding from people asking me when I'm going to update my mods ^^

 

By the by I think if you'd like to experiment with scripting a little before moving on to serious mods making spells could be a good idea! I think my first little private skyrim mod was a lesser power that opened a menu that let me play all the vanilla offset idles like carry basket, carry drink, hands bound and so on. I loved having my character pick up alchemical ingredients while carrying the basket. I wished I could smack monsters with it toooooo but the model didn't have a weapon version XD

 

Also spells are good for testing things you may want to do before you implement them in the form you want.

[RitualClarity]

 

And ritualclarity, I just realized, I recognized from the Fallout New Vegas forums.

I put my alien fingers all over the place here... lol. Nothing can stop you with a mother ship and hyperdirve.

 

I'm pondering putting the body writing mod on the back burner for now. 

The bulk of work on it is scripting-based, so progress will not only be slow as I learn at every little stage, but there are very few points between "this is kind of working a little bit" and "this is actually doing what it's supposed to".

 

Nothing stops you from creating some scripts on a .txt file. You can work from that, post it on a thread as you get time and get guidance. Develop yourself from both sides of the fence at the same time. When you are ready you can or should be able to copy the scripts back into CK. Working from CK can be such a pain. Same as GECK. Just be clear on your ability and time so that those that help you will be able to understand. Post some questions on that same thread related to the tutorials that you are using.

 

I only mention it because it is very hard to start. I know, trust me I know.. Any little starts or partial projects can help that. Who knows perhaps someone would be inspired by your work and start to help you produce the mod you are working on. It happen quite often here. People see some mod and gets some inspiriation and offer their skills to help get the project done earlier.

 

 

[OodlesOfDoodles]

Well, I have played a fair amount of STO and SWtOR, so it is possible  

 

You're also a genius. 

And I'm an idiot for not thinking of that. 

Literally yesterday, once I'd settled in to my fondness for Player Succubus Quest, I thought to myself "this comes with its own calm spell, so I don't have to choose between Sexlab Enchantress and a regular prudish calm". 

All the while, in the back of my head, thinking about how I should get in to modding.

[OodlesOfDoodles]

 

I'm pondering putting the body writing mod on the back burner for now. 

The bulk of work on it is scripting-based, so progress will not only be slow as I learn at every little stage, but there are very few points between "this is kind of working a little bit" and "this is actually doing what it's supposed to".

 

Nothing stops you from creating some scripts on a .txt file. You can work from that, post it on a thread as you get time and get guidance. Develop yourself from both sides of the fence at the same time. When you are ready you can or should be able to copy the scripts back into CK. Working from CK can be such a pain. Same as GECK. Just be clear on your ability and time so that those that help you will be able to understand. Post some questions on that same thread related to the tutorials that you are using.

 

I only mention it because it is very hard to start. I know, trust me I know.. Any little starts or partial projects can help that. Who knows perhaps someone would be inspired by your work and start to help you produce the mod you are working on. It happen quite often here. People see some mod and gets some inspiriation and offer their skills to help get the project done earlier.

 

 

I just found http://www.creationkit.com/Sublime_Text_Setup , which I'll look into tomorrow. 

Though unless there's a better editor that comes with what I'm doing, I usually just use notepad, so I won't be holding my breath on that.

 

Baby steps will be the order of the day. 

The more I do, the more familiar I'll get with the tools, and the more familiar I am with the tools, the more intuitively I'll be able to just make stuff happen.

[RitualClarity]

 

I just found http://www.creationk...lime_Text_Setup , which I'll look into tomorrow.

I didn't even know that exsisted... cool

 

The more I do, the more familiar I'll get with the tools, and the more familiar I am with the tools, the more intuitively I'll be able to just make stuff happen.

Same thing here. I am learning the structures and tools etc some functions and learning and helping others fix their problems. Soon I will probably go back to making minor changes and such to my personal games (mods) and perhaps move towards some project. I have my eye on a few things that might be interesting and useful for the community. Top secret..

If not perhaps I can always help some of the modders here on their projects even if it is just testing and some quick fixes. Last time I tested mods I didn't know anything about modding. It was useful at the time to make sure that others wouldn't have any issue getting the mod running. Then I worked on understanding SCR and what was needed to use and created a tutorial. Could always go back to making some good tutorials on Mod managers and tools as I grow in my skills as well. Bottom line there is always something that can be done modded or changed.

[Mr.Friendly]

If I were interested in doing something similar to this? What tutorial should I look up? (Deadly Mutilation) http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34917/?

 

[OodlesOfDoodles]

I couldn't tell you, Swayer. 

It seems to me that it would be incredibly difficult, so tutorials would only point you in the general direction. 

 

With regards to my own modding endeavours, at 4:45am, I am happy to report a modest success. 

While it is true that I said that I was going to aim small, it is equally true that I am apparently an enormous liar. If I were wearing pants, they would likely pose a severe fire hazard. 

About 8 hours ago I was watching a tutorial on something, and I hopped to the Papyrus wiki thing to look at something mentioned in the tutorial. 

At that point, something clicked, and the syntax of Papyrus just stopped boggling my mind. 

scriptname BodyWritingMCM extends SKI_ConfigBase

import NiOverride
import NetImmerse

int tallycountID
float tallycount = 0.0

event onpagereset(string page)
	SetCursorFillMode(TOP_TO_BOTTOM)
	SetCursorPosition(0) ; Redundant.
	AddHeaderOption("The Thing")
	tallycountID = AddSliderOption("tallycount count?", tallycount, "{0}")
endevent

event OnOptionSliderOpen(int option)
    if (option == tallycountID)
        SetSliderDialogStartValue(tallycount)
        SetSliderDialogDefaultValue(1.0)
        SetSliderDialogRange(0.0, 2.0)
        SetSliderDialogInterval(1.0)
    endif
endEvent

event OnOptionSliderAccept(int option, float value)
    if (option == tallycountID)
        tallycount = value
        SetSliderOptionValue(tallycountID, tallycount, "{0}")
    endif
endevent

event OnConfigClose()
	actor tallytarget = game.getplayer()
	ActorBase target_base = tallytarget.GetActorBase()
    if SKSE.GetPluginVersion("NiOverride") >= 1
        Debug.Notification("NiOverride is installed.")
        if NiOverride.HasOverlays(tallytarget) != true
            NiOverride.AddOverlays(tallytarget)
            Utility.Wait(0.1)
            if NiOverride.HasOverlays(tallytarget) != true
                Debug.Notification("Failed to add tattoo capability")
                return
            endif
        endif
        bool isFemale = target_base.GetSex() as bool
        string nodename = "Body [ovl0]"
        int tallycountasint = tallycount as int
        string texturename = "writing" + tallycountasint + ".dds"
        ; Remove Overlays.
        NiOverride.AddNodeOverrideString(tallytarget, isFemale, nodeName, 9, 0, "blank.dds", true)
        Utility.Wait(0.1)
        NiOverride.RemoveNodeOverride(tallytarget, isFemale, nodeName, 9, 0)
        Utility.Wait(0.1)
        NiOverride.RemoveNodeOverride(tallytarget, isFemale, nodeName, 8, -1)
        utility.wait(0.1)
        ; Add overlays (maybe).
        NiOverride.AddNodeOverrideString(tallytarget, isFemale, nodeName, 9, 0, texturename, true)
        Utility.Wait(0.1)
        NiOverride.AddNodeOverrideFloat(tallytarget, isFemale, nodeName, 8, -1, 1.0, true)
        Utility.Wait(0.1)
    endif
endevent

As it stands, in the full mod, it has an MCM menu with a single slider option (0-2). 

On exiting the MCM menu, it replaces whatever overlay is in the ovl0 slot with a texture "writingn.dds" (where "n" is the value of the slider). 

It's only 0-2 currently because I didn't want to find and rename more unique textures for a test.

 

Tomorrow, I might try to find a non-MCM means of updating the tally count, and subsequently the overlay. 

Or maybe a little later tonight. 

I just didn't want to be someone who was all "I'm gonna mod it" and never actually delivers, I'd feel bad after the encouragement

 

 

Edit: It was so alarmingly straight-forward to get an event triggered every n seconds I feel like it has to be a faux pas or something. 

Will more experienced mod authors be sucking their teeth about it? 

function startchain()
	registerforsingleupdate(5.0)
endfunction

Event OnUpdate()
	bool bKeepUpdating = true
	Debug.Notification("banana")
	if bKeepUpdating
		registerforsingleupdate(5.0)
	endif    
EndEvent

Simples. 

Startchain is called from within the OnConfigClose event, and try as I might, I can't get it to repeat "banana" more than once every 5 seconds, which seems like a possibly promising start. 

I'm properly tired now, so I shouldn't do any more on this tonight, but tomorrow I'll look into updating the overlay from a non-MCM source.

 

[Princessity]

XD I remember the sitting late at night and suddenlysomethingclickinginmybrain thingy toooooo! I think I was kneeling in front of my computer and begging at that point

 

 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with your banana thingy. I would be very happy if someone was giving me a banana every 5 seconds. And very fat too. And it's good you're using singleupdate chain instead of the normal buggy update function, it will clog the game less. Updates of any kind will still clog the game but sometimes it's unavoidable depending on what you want the mod to do.

 

By the by what is that update supposed to do other than giving bananas?

[OodlesOfDoodles]

At the moment (because I'm totally sleeping like a sensible person, honest), it's all bananas. 

I just needed something unique that would stand out, so... Banana.

 

It's 5 seconds now, but that's absolutely the fastest I feel it should run. 

Chances are I'll increase it to 10-15 when I'm not testing (perhaps even 30 as a maintenance thing, if I can find a better trigger for updates in future, like end of sex in Sexlab). 

I'm thinking of putting the whole overlay replacing thing in a function so it can be called from the OnConfigClose event and the banana loop. 

Then the banana loop can compare the values the tallies are showing to something like Sexlab stats, and update the tallies through the overlay replacing function if there's a difference (I need to make tallies...).

 

Now, I sleep (for reals this time).

[Princessity]

Mmmmmmmm I like to put icecreams in my debug messages but that's higher level modding and stuffs! Bananas are okays tooooo! Anyways I agree: unless you're expecting changes that can happen unpredictably any time triggers are probably a better idea than updates ^^ And making a single function that can be used by multile things is helpful too and will make updating and debugging and stuffs easier later

 

By the by I just realised something! In the sexlab development topic Ashal said the way sexlab keeps track of stats is going to change in the next version, I don't remember the exactlities (totally a real word!) but it may affect your mod! (or not) You may want to see if it's going to be compatible with the coming sexlab update

 

And nighty night! Which so isn't a nighty day now but better late than even later! ^^

[OodlesOfDoodles]

I spent a whole bunch of today cleaning up the script, and I'm fairly pleased with the result. 

Even in spite of my tidying, it's up to nearly 150 lines, so I won't post the full thing here. 

But I had it updating three overlays with tally textures based on values set in an MCM menu, which was like step #3 in my master plan.

 

I've hit a wall when it comes to acquiring stats from somewhere. 

I can't find a straightforward way to grab anal/oral/vaginal counts from sexlab (I could maybe extrapolate totals from the proficiency, but that probably wouldn't be accurate), which was what I was hoping for, for a quick and dirty finish. 

Hooking into the ending of animations isn't straightforward, either. I could maybe muddle something together (it's like a chain of about 7 "maybe"s), but it's a whole new level of "I have no idea what I'm doing"

 

It might be time to mothball the project. 

There's a point at which I'll stop learning anything from "muddling through", because the stuff I'm just about managing to throw together it too advanced, and I think I'm about at that point. I can come back to it when I'm a little more proficient, and add all the features I have in my head (like being able to wash the writing off in rivers, which incidentally might be easier than getting the stats).

If I can get some nice tally textures sorted, I might finalise it more or less as it is (three separate tallies in proximity to relevant orifices with MCM controlled counts for them).

I'll need to think of a new project, though.

 

 

 

[Princessity]

There's sexlab event OnAnimationEnd that triggers at the end of every sex act and you can make your function run for instances of this event where player was involved. This thingy is very helpful: sexlab documentation

 

Unleeeess I understood it wrong and your problem is something totally different ^^

[OodlesOfDoodles]

You are right. 

I looked into it, and it seems perfectly doable. 

However, I've literally been modding Skyrim for 2 days, and (if I allow myself to blow my own trumpet for a moment) I've come a really long way in that time. 

The largely ignored rational part of my head is suggesting I build a firmer foundation for what I've already learned, before going deeper down the rabbit hole.