Floating weapons, flying humans

[Cyan]

*EDIT! Added load order and screenshot

 

Sometimes when an npc dies the weapon s/he was carrying stays floating in the air.

 

Sometimes when an npc dies they go flying at very (very!) high speed in the opposite direction they're facing. This only happens when they're killed by magic/enchanted weapons. Doesn't happen to creatures. 

 

Human corpses lying around the world don't appear in the positions they're supposed to. They're stiff, with their legs upward slightly. And they're all the same. Looks really weird when they're meant to be slumped over a ledge, but instead it's like they're floating.

 

 

Not really sure what's causing this. Any help is appreciated !

 

LO

 

 

Oblivion.esm
Lovers with PK.esm
CM Partners.esm
1em_GiveAGift.esp
boethia custom race.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
KT_CustomRaceFix.esp
Tona's_ModsStore.esp
VipCxj_HighHeels.esp
1SB_SisterNightfallOutfit.esp
BBShoes.esp
CB Elegant Dress.esp
CB Rogue Armor.esp
CB Stylish Outfit.esp
DarkWindarmor1.esp
Demon Hunter.esp
EY_AoD.esp
EY_BM_Armory.esp
FEZA Vesta Set.esp
GladiatorShoes.esp
GloriousMageDress.esp
Hentai Raven Suit_BBB.esp
kanrax2antiquedressset.esp
KDClothCirclets.esp
Lady Thief.esp
LustyBretonnianMaid.esp
mamomamo_MMOneP02.esp
Neo's LandCH.esp
OHTeheavy4.esp
R18PN - Eisen Platte Armor.esp
R18PN - Fiona Armor.esp
Ryk_SorceressArmor.esp
Sister_of_Eisen_HGEC.esp
SPB Body Suit 2.esp
TalimCosplay.esp
Tight Minidress.esp
TribalPrincess.esp
WomanWarriorset.esp
ZKECSummerShoes.esp
Seirei_No_Hitokiri.esp
tkRapiers.esp
CM Partners.esp
CM Partner Destara.esp
Uguu Partners.esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Weather_with_darker_Nights_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
SetBody.esp
DECustom.esp
DiabloEF 6 in 1.esp
FinalFantasyRace.esp
Lavender Uguu.esp
LopearsElf.esp
StrangersRefine.esp
XEOOrcsStandalone.esp
Specialanims.esp
LoversAdultPlayPlusforSSP.esp
LoversVoiceSSPplus.esp
LoversBed.esp
LoversPayBandit.esp
Lovers with PK.esp
LoversMB2.esp
LoversIdleAnimsPriority.esp
LoversAnimObjectsPriority.esp

 

[FwuffyMouse]

I couldn't tell you why your weapons are floating, but that happens in the vanilla game as well. as for the flying off when hit by spells or enchanted weapons, i think i have an answer. in skyrim, and probably oblivion, the extra damage done over the killing blow is turned into momentum. it's why giants send characters to the moon in skyrim. It also happens in vanilla, and is a bit naff, since momentum is often added incorrectly and npc's fly straight up instead of away.

 

finally, without knowing what mods you have installed, all anyone can do is guess what might be wrong. the steps posted in the sticky aren't just suggestions, since that information is needed in order to diagnose an issue. Someone else will have to help you with the corpses being too stiff, that actually does sound like a problem. 

[Cyan]

At first I thought the flying enemies was kinda funny, but I'm pretty sure it's not because of the momentum, because they always fly in the opposite direction they face, so if I hit them with a spell from behind, they will fly into me. They also disappear for a split second or two when they die this way.

 

I'll edit the op with my load order and a pic when I get back to my pc.

[Poontank]

There had been a thread on the floating weapon effect before: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/18514-floating-weapon-bug/

 

It seems this glitch is inherent to the game's human skeletons. Since all modern skeletons are derived from Coronerra's, the effect can happen to about any player at anytime. I'm getting it quite frequently, even now that I finally have switched to the LAPF skeleton (the most up-to-date skeleton available).

 

Of note is the fact that the floating weapons actually are still 'attached' to the NPCs - you cannot interact with them in any form.

No manipulation with the grab key for example. It's because they are still equipped by the characters. The weapons must be looted from fallen enemies' inventory to make them disappear.

 

I have no clue about the characters flying off. Never experienced this one so far.

[Cyan]

The floating weapons isn't really a big deal for me, if its just a known glitch. I'm using the LAPF skeleton as well and at first I thought it may be causing the stiff corpses and flying but I haven't seen this problem reported anywhere else, so I'm assuming it may be a conflict. Thanks both of you for your input. 

[d4nt320]

sometimes this happen because one mod is wrong in the load order i make that problem go. but now i delete the mod was causing the problem but before i delete the mod i get to make the mod work in my load order. i delete the mod because i was having to many mods and i delete some mods. this is not because lover pk, is wrong load order not all is just one mod. i fine the only one mod can cause your game crash and one mod can make you lover pk go wrong to. so every time you put a mod check if the mod work before you save or install other mod because when you save the game the problem will still causing you problem even after you delete the mod.

 

here some tips load order:

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/28059-load-order-tips/

[Cyan]

Thanks ill take a look at these

 

 

[Cyan]

So I've reorganized my load order, and disabled all mods, but the issue is still there.

 

I'm confused why this is happening.

[rynak777]

According to the thread linked earlier, it's a bug with the skelleton. Unfortunatelly, just this skelleton is being used by almost every mod that deals with animation, including loversPK.

 

A fix has never been released, and it's not clear if it can be fixed without breaking compatibility with all those bazillion mods.

 

P.S.: If it cannot be fixed in the skel, perhaps it can be hackfixed with a plugin-script: Search for dead actors, force unequip their weapons (they still have them equipped when this occurs), drop them and let havok do the rest. Exclude unconscious actors from the hackfix, because unequipping stuff for them would have unwanted consequences (i.e. for followers).

[d4nt320]

you save the game with the problem now you have to live with the problem. try new game to see if the problem still.

 

if you have lovers pk you need to use http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/37596/?

 

 

[rynak777]

you save the game with the problem now you have to live with the problem. try new game to see if the problem still.

 

if you have lovers pk you need to use http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/37596/?

 

WRONG! Don't do this! It will replace the LAPF skel with the one posted above. As i understand things, the LAPF skel is based on the above skel, but not the same.

 

EDIT: That is, unless you use the old non-LAPF version of lovers - then you indeed need the above skel.

 

Also, the above skel is affected by the problem as well, as is the earlier "maximum compatibility" skel. This entire "family" of skels apparently is affected by the prob, since the unwanted behavior was already introduced in the maxcompat skel long ago.

[rynak777]

Okay, thought a bit more about the hackfix thing....

 

It would be possible to fix this for every downed char, even unconscious ones. The solution might be ridicously simple: Just scan for unconscious actors, and if they have any weapons equipped, unequip them. Leave them in inventory. This solves the problem of followers possibly losing their stuff.

 

The new possible problem has to do with unconscious NPCs that aren't really unconscious: I don't know in detail how loversPK works, but from some debug prints i've seen - it appears that lovers makes people seem unconscious, without actually being unconscious - to prevent attacks. Is this correct? If yes, then the "unequip if unconscious" approach might cause issues with LPK, as well as other mods who "cheat" this way.

 

Perhaps check if the equipped items are of certain types, and only then unequip? Like, only weapons and shields?

[gregathit]

 

you save the game with the problem now you have to live with the problem. try new game to see if the problem still.

 

if you have lovers pk you need to use http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/37596/?

 

WRONG! Don't do this! It will replace the LAPF skel with the one posted above. As i understand things, the LAPF skel is based on the above skel, but not the same.

 

Both of you are right.....sort of.  The LAPF installation instructions clearly point out you need to 1st install the Universal Skeleton and THEN install the LAPF (which contains a modified version of the Universal Skeleton with penis bones added).  

 

As to the floating weapons, I'm pretty sure that has been around since the release of oblivion and is a game coding issue.  On death any weapon "should" be unequipped which would work just fine......however the superior coding skills of Bethesda managed to F that up.  Last I remember it was hard coded in and really couldn't be fixed without "hacking things" and that would not be 100% reliable.  Which helps explain why it is still around today.  

 

As I recall it really isn't a skeleton issue, as the games vanilla skelly will have the same issues.

 

Been a long time since this was messed with so I might have mixed up the facts a bit or not remembered something correctly.

[varenne]

Interesting discussion, again.

 

Things I've noted after playing for years, with many many MODs:

1. Only becomes a problem when running MODs that add or increase quantities of weapon using NPCs; Adrenaline Oblivion.

2. The position of the weapon doing air time is related to where the NPC skeleton was in it's animation cycle upon death.

3. Does not seem to affect shields. Shields drop normally as they should.

4. Leaving a cell after killing numerous NPCs, resulting in many floating weapons around, moves/returns them to the ground if you return.

5. May contribute to CTDs, low FPS; see 1.

6. Educated guesses - Havok related bug and/or, Oblivion memory limits. The primitive (nowadays) very limited game engine simply cannot process that much information resulting in those objects getting stuck midway to where they really should be.

 

[rynak777]

6. Educated guesses - Havok related bug and/or, Oblivion memory limits. The primitive (nowadays) very limited game engine simply cannot process that much information resulting in those objects getting stuck midway to where they really should be.

 

If it is havok processing limits - then given enough available CPU power, would a higher number of havoc threads as well as "quantum time" (the amount of time a havok thread gets, per call), possibly fix it? (both can be set in oblivion.ini)

 

(not neccessarily a good solution, since havok might then constantly steal valueable cpu time, even when it's not needed. Reason i'm asking is more for purposes of testing: If it's havok, and it should occur less often if threads and threadtime is increased, then we have a testcase to verify if the theory is correct)

 

P.S.: It might actually affect shields as well, but for reasons of probability almost never happen. Observe how AI usually behaves during fights: Weapons are moving all the time, but a shield usually either is raised or not - so: "on" and "off". And the animation for raise/unraise is quick: The bug might only occur during an animation - so for shields, it would only trigger at the exact moment of raise/unraise which is short and rare.

[Poontank]

One thing sprang to my mind just now that Havok processing got mentioned.

 

This might be related to floating weapons: What about the countless instances of weapons which first are being correctly dropped by NPCs and creatures upon death - then sinking into the ground and disappearing? I'm getting this effect just as frequently as floating weapons. Some objects like Liches' staves are prone to this. Fallen Grummites' bows as well. Seems collision detection oftentimes is totally off for certain objects. Sometimes I observe staves visibly pass through the floor as if sinking in water.

 

Proof that this effect is a vanilla issue: I had noticed sinking and disappearing weapons already when I played the game on console many years ago.

[Cyan]

you save the game with the problem now you have to live with the problem. try new game to see if the problem still.

 

I did start a new character, but it didn't help.

 

Im using the LAPF skeleton, allowed it to overwrite growlfs universal skeleton (does it matter what 1st person skelly you use? I tried both controllable and total controllable).

 

The stiff corpses is what irks me the most, but I guess I'll just have to put up with it. 

 

thanks all 

[varenne]

 

6. Educated guesses - Havok related bug and/or, Oblivion memory limits. The primitive (nowadays) very limited game engine simply cannot process that much information resulting in those objects getting stuck midway to where they really should be.

 

If it is havok processing limits - then given enough available CPU power, would a higher number of havoc threads as well as "quantum time" (the amount of time a havok thread gets, per call), possibly fix it? (both can be set in oblivion.ini)

 

(not neccessarily a good solution, since havok might then constantly steal valueable cpu time, even when it's not needed. Reason i'm asking is more for purposes of testing: If it's havok, and it should occur less often if threads and threadtime is increased, then we have a testcase to verify if the theory is correct)

 

P.S.: It might actually affect shields as well, but for reasons of probability almost never happen. Observe how AI usually behaves during fights: Weapons are moving all the time, but a shield usually either is raised or not - so: "on" and "off". And the animation for raise/unraise is quick: The bug might only occur during an animation - so for shields, it would only trigger at the exact moment of raise/unraise which is short and rare.

 

 

Never tested increasing havok threads, certainly worth a try.

 

Trying to come up with a good test for shields but drawing a blank. PC/NPCs should have a high enough blocking level to also use the push back that comes with higher levels. That would maximize shield animation/movement. Still doesn't compare to weapon animations though.

 

[varenne]

One thing sprang to my mind just now that Havok processing got mentioned.

 

This might be related to floating weapons: What about the countless instances of weapons which first are being correctly dropped by NPCs and creatures upon death - then sinking into the ground and disappearing? I'm getting this effect just as frequently as floating weapons. Some objects like Liches' staves are prone to this. Fallen Grummites' bows as well. Seems collision detection oftentimes is totally off for certain objects. Sometimes I observe staves visibly pass through the floor as if sinking in water.

 

Proof that this effect is a vanilla issue: I had noticed sinking and disappearing weapons already when I played the game on console many years ago.

 

That is one I don't recall seeing in my current or evn previous builds; weapons sinking through ground and disappearing. I'll have to keep my eye open for it.

 

Hhmmm where to find a bunch of liches to test... Ayelid ruins.

 

[varenne]

 

you save the game with the problem now you have to live with the problem. try new game to see if the problem still.

 

I did start a new character, but it didn't help.

 

Im using the LAPF skeleton, allowed it to overwrite growlfs universal skeleton (does it matter what 1st person skelly you use? I tried both controllable and total controllable).

 

The stiff corpses is what irks me the most, but I guess I'll just have to put up with it. 

 

thanks all 

 

 

I highly doubt creating a new save game will change or affect this in a positive way.

 

What do you mean specifically by stiff corpse? You cannot use the Z key to drag around and move?

 

[d4nt320]

that maybe is vanilla problem. on ps3 and xbox 360 have the same problem. so is not only pc console have the same problem that why is maybe vanilla problem.

[Cyan]

 

 

you save the game with the problem now you have to live with the problem. try new game to see if the problem still.

 

I did start a new character, but it didn't help.

 

Im using the LAPF skeleton, allowed it to overwrite growlfs universal skeleton (does it matter what 1st person skelly you use? I tried both controllable and total controllable).

 

The stiff corpses is what irks me the most, but I guess I'll just have to put up with it. 

 

thanks all 

 

 

I highly doubt creating a new save game will change or affect this in a positive way.

 

What do you mean specifically by stiff corpse? You cannot use the Z key to drag around and move?

 

 

Dead enemies (that you find dead, such as the khajiit in vilverin) are stiff. 

 

 

I can still move them with Z, then they fall normally

[varenne]

I tested using a magic staff today and if I'm real close to a Bandit for the last magic strike they flew over me instead of away from my PC. But that was real real close in. Also are all bodies stiff? Those on the ground too?

 

I'm using a slightly modified LAPF skel and have no issues like you've shown; stiff corpses. I can PM you a copy of the skels I'm using, for test purposes only just let me know. I am not posting it here or distributing it as I have no interest in supporting it.

 

Which meshes are you using for males & females? 

[Cyan]

Only dead bodies I find are stiff. Enemies I kill are normal. I'm using HGEC for my default body, setbody for my PC and companions, and roberts v52 for males. The stiff corpse problem affects both male and female.

 

Trying your modified skeleton would be great   thanks

[rynak777]

Just observed more havok weirdness:

 

Killed a guard with a fireball as he was striking.

 

The guard collapsed properly.

 

The sword stayed at the point it was in the animation when the guard was killed - floating weapon effect - but with a literal twist: The sword kept spinning (roll-axis - not pitch or yaw) at constant speed in place for about 10 secs, while floating. Then it suddenly stopped spinning and fell to the ground.

 

Not sure how much this indicates, but it there's one quite safe bet i think - and it fits into varenne's theory: Havok seems to arbitrarily disable parts of it's physics calculations sometimes (probably under load).

 

EDIT: Here's a very speculative theory: It all depends on in which order things usually happen in the oblivion engine. When does a sword become a seperate physics object? When does it become unequipped? When is it removed from inventory? In which order do those things happen? And does havok give newly introduced physics objects lower priority, than already established physics objects, when it is under load?

 

Here's a scenario:

1. Actor HP goes to zero

2. Actor is already a physics object and in motion, so havok keeps it in the list of objects to simulate: The corpse begins to drop.

3. The sword becomes a seperate physics object - but for some reason, is not yet being unequipped and removed from inv

4. Havok is saturated, refuses to deal with even more physics objects - like the newly introduced sword - therefore it just stays in place, where it was introduced (floating weapon effect)

5. Unequip fails for unknown reasons

6. When havok is no longer under load, it refuses to deal with the sword (because it's still equipped?)

 

In other words - is this perhaps a failed disarm?

 

EDIT2: This could be a desync of internal data structures. Almost certainly, the datastructures tracking objects in the gameworld - are different datastructures that keep track of actors and equipped/carried items: The sword is "seperated" from the actor in one datastruct, but not in the other.

 

EDIT3: Has anyone ever tried what happens, if one moves such a corpse with floating weapon effect?