Creating a Tutorial Thread for JFF - Help/Links/Tips wanted

[b00marrows]

Now, there s a whole bunch of information available but its sometimes hard to find.
I'm thinking we need either a Wiki Or a dedicated Sticky thread to linking all of the information.
 
any thoughts?
 
Heres a "mock up" of the thread I'm thinking of making:
 
HDT Phisics extension - Just For Fun
Getting Started
Basic information
Basic information/Links on what is required to get things to a "workable point"
Tips & Tricks
File link - for easier/quicker loading of XML files in JFF:

 

• Open the folder with you .XML file in it
• Open (in another window) your JFF folder
• Right-click and drag your .XML file into the JFF folder
• Release Right-click
• Click "Create shortcuts here"
• Now open JFF click "load" and click the "your.xml - Shortcut"

​

 

Unblock downloaded mods on Windows to help fight any unwanted errors:

 

• Download any wanted mod
• Right click the file after it has finished downloading
• Click Properties
• Click "Unblock" next to security
• Apply -> Ok
• Now install like useual

 

 

 

Errors and what to do

There are many things than can go wrong and none of them are easy to fix, to speed up the prossess you could:

• SEARCH for a similar thread.
• If there's nothing similar than make a new thread and include the following:

1. A detailed description of what happened
2. What HDT version you used
3. what HDT mods (if any) you are using
4. And Include a .log file

How to post an Error log:

 

A file loacated in:
<Skyrim Install Directory>/Data/Skse/Plugins/hdtPhysicsExtensions.log
Make a new thread and post the log in a "spoiler" box like, Example:

[spoiler] <PASTE TEST FROM LOG HERE> [/spoiler]

 

RigidBodies - The Basics
"basic part information goes here" - explaining the fields. "name", "Motion Type" and "Shape"
RigidBodies - Generic Properties
"Explain all fields and what the information should look like here"

Name:
the name of which bone this specific set of details will effect
Motion Type:
The type of object it is, this is very complicated and i have barely touched this.
 >keyframes means the object will follow standard animation positions (I.E. Physics is Disabled)
 >all the others are different types of basic physic shapes, the mesh object will be 'simplified' to this object and will have the physical properties and equations of the object applied to it in physics calculations in-game
Friction:
 The 'drag' force on the object, otherwise known as the friction constant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction
Restitution:
How elastic the collision effects are, 1 being completely elastic, http://en.wikipedia...._of_restitution

 
RigidBodies - Advanced Properties
"Explain all fields and what the information should look like here"

liner Dampening:
Relate to how much 'momentum' is lost in the respective field, these directly relate to the linear and Angular constraints, http://forums.corona...linear-damping/
Angular Dampening:
Relate to how much 'momentum' is lost in the respective field, these directly relate to the linear and Angular constraints, http://forums.corona...linear-damping/
Gravity Factor:
weight/downwards force multiplier i think
Time Factor:
speed of which all effects "run" higher for quicker bounce with shorter effect, lower for slower bounce with longer effect

 
RigidBodies - Mass Properties
"Explain all fields and what the information should look like here"

Mass:
weight/downwards force of object
Center of Mass:
depicts the placement of the center of the object (In correlation to where the bone is) (I have never had a reason to change this, and I really cant think of one right now...)
Inertia Tensor:
Controls Inertia, Increase numbers to 'tighten' movement and decrease number to 'loosen' it. (I still need to find the physics formula behind this but it is directly correlated to Center Of Mass (COM) and Mass.

 
RigidBodies - Collision's
"Explain all fields and what the information should look like/is epected here"

Shape:
(The mesh object will gain the physical properties of this item in all physics calculations)
GroupID:
This is what defines what the object is considered as when colliding with other objects. allowing for the next one to work.
No Collide With:
this is the "collision control" section, i have no experience with using this so i cant tell you anything
(Link to Yoo's thread about Collision Filter's Guide thread)

 
Constraints
Basic information on constraints and what they do and are for.
 
Normal
Yoo's excellent post on constraints: http://www.loverslab...place/?p=697930
 
Chain
hkpBallsocketChainData
hkpPoweredChainData
hkpStiffSpringChainData
 
Credits
Blabba - Big thanks for everything so far!
Yoo - (no not you!) - a master of being informative at random times...

 

[blabba]

And another challenger arises!

 

Sure thing, dunno about using a wiki or anything. Personally I am not a huge fan of how they are laid out.

You can also make an 'index' similar to Sexlab index and get that pinned by a mod it would be really helpful.

 

I was thinking something along the lines of a forum 'guide' similar to this one: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25180-unofficial-bodyslide-2outfit-studio-tutorials/

Though I admit, that's probably not the best fashion nor is it the neatest or well-ordered guides ever...

 

But yea, your idea is solid and sounds good. Now if only people follow through with it xD

[b00marrows]

The problem with a thread is limited control/clarity.

 

The problem with a wiki is management.

I don't think Ill be able to do a wiki...

[blabba]

The problem with a thread is limited control/clarity.

 

The problem with a wiki is management.

I don't think Ill be able to do a wiki...

 

Dunno about clarity issues on forums, isn't that how we (members of LL) communicate with each other? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding that part though... I seem to misunderstand a lot these days

(If I am misunderstanding, then I guess your point about forums being unclear was made then )

 

But yea, overall the #1 problem is actually DOING any of this work. It's so much harder to write up nice neat and detailed documentation than it is (sometimes) to actually MAKE an HDT Cloth or bounce kit and such.

 

Besides Canderes, Yoo, HydrogensaysHDT, ledo4ek, Neckros and Vioxsis, I don't think many others have a full or deep understanding of how the Physics works yet. And even then, all of the above people have helped as much as they can, Canderes has done countless good modder tutorial vids, Yoo's written up a few Guides, Neckros has written an awesome plugin and a guide for it. Even Hydrogen has started posting changelogs for us

 

Hopefully though, One day some LL user will get the willpower to make a difference and make that index/guide thread. And it's gonna be awesome, and I'm gonna like & follow that thread. (For any of you 'silent' members out there that are reading this, here's an excellent chance for you to join the LL community and break away from just 'leeching'!)

 

[chajapa]

I'm retired and have some time

Just based on my current experience, which is kinda limited, I can see that while HDT is changing, some things remain fairly constant and helpful.

What tools do you need? (JFF and NifSkope)

How do I change the size of the capsule shape in the breast? (I have a character with small breasts, and I have some Lunari Followers using a custom CBBE body)

How do I change the size of the hand sphere? 

 

An explanation of Tensors and the Constraints

Gravity and time factors

 

Some of this stuff is pretty basic and has the same BASIC effect even though HDT is evolving. The DEGREE of change that you see might vary based on hdt version, mesh paint, etc, but knowing where to look for something as simple as..... "I want the boobs to bounce up and down with more *travel*" so.... where is that range of motion defined.

 

I know this is not simple. It's a complex system with a huge number of variables and changing one thing can have an affect someplace else you hadn't planned on, but I'm learning and a basic roadmap for how to "drive" this bus might be helpful. Basic guidelines. With the understanding that many things can affect indivudual outcomes.

 

[blabba]

O.o

 

I like the mockup table b00m!

 

My only suggestion would maybe be make 2 seperate sections, 1 for HDT modders, and 1 for HDT users.

That way, sections/links and tutorials under the user guides can be more simplified down and driven towards basic debugging and FAQ's geared to non-modders. This section can contain Yoo's excellent guide about collision filters.

 

And the more advanced modders section can contain links to modders resources and detailed guides and how-to's for those interested in understanding the full thing. This section could contain Canderes' videos guides and Neckros' toolset for 3DSMAX.

 

Also, you could have others like chajapa (who has graciously volunteered) write up their own guide in a forum format or whatever format you decide on and just copy paste it into your overall post

 

Edit: In reference to your bottom post: xD, You can use spoilers or reserved posts in a thread to break it up into nice neat little sections.

        I also apparently post much too fast . That awkward moment when you've answered the question before it's been asked

[b00marrows]

 

Dunno about clarity issues on forums, isn't that how we (members of LL) communicate with each other? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding that part though... I seem to misunderstand a lot these days

(If I am misunderstanding, then I guess your point about forums being unclear was made then )

 

But yea, overall the #1 problem is actually DOING any of this work. It's so much harder to write up nice neat and detailed documentation than it is (sometimes) to actually MAKE an HDT Cloth or bounce kit and such.

 

Besides Canderes, Yoo, HydrogensaysHDT, ledo4ek, Neckros and Vioxsis, I don't think many others have a full or deep understanding of how the Physics works yet. And even then, all of the above people have helped as much as they can, Canderes has done countless good modder tutorial vids, Yoo's written up a few Guides, Neckros has written an awesome plugin and a guide for it. Even Hydrogen has started posting changelogs for us

 

Hopefully though, One day some LL user will get the willpower to make a difference and make that index/guide thread. And it's gonna be awesome, and I'm gonna like & follow that thread. (For any of you 'silent' members out there that are reading this, here's an excellent chance for you to join the LL community and break away from just 'leeching'!)

 

I'm no teacher and I'm terrible at explaining things properly, I'm no wiz but I whipped up a "mock" post in the op tell me what you think.

With the information that is already available on the forum I could imagine it getting quite bulky. 

 

EDIT:

Well you beat me too it, that's what i get for taking a break for a cup of tea Haha.

 

2 guides would be better, mayeb 1 for "basic setup" and the other for "JFF editing"?

[blabba]

 

EDIT:

Well you beat me too it, that's what i get for taking a break for a cup of tea Haha.

 

2 guides would be better, mayeb 1 for "basic setup" and the other for "JFF editing"?

 

 

I too like my tea in the morning

Yeap, 2 guides would be awesome, (I originally thought you wanted to make a super massive index/guide post that everyone could visit and get links and guides and whatnots from)

 

Though I think making a bunch of smaller and seperate guides based on what we each know is a better approach as it allows comments and such be tailored to that specific guide/post and then eventually we can have a 'master' thread stickied to the toop that just links to all these wonderful references

[b00marrows]

ah yes an index thread would be good, maybe this could be 2 in 1? a "basics" guide with links to other threads with more in-depth explanations/example/videos?

 

Ohohoh, another idea! a SUB FORUM!

a master thread with seperate threads would work better in an area dedicated to them.

[blabba]

ah yes an index thread would be good, maybe this could be 2 in 1? a "basics" guide with links to other threads with more in-depth explanations/example/videos?

 

Ohohoh, another idea! a SUB FORUM!

a master thread with seperate threads would work better in an area dedicated to them.

 

xD, Dunno about making another subforum you'd have to take that up with Monsto and moderators.

 

I think a pinned index thread should be good enough, at least that's what SexLab thread has and it seems to be going by well enough

 

[b00marrows]

 

 

xD, Dunno about making another subforum you'd have to take that up with Monsto and moderators.

 

I think a pinned index thread should be good enough, at least that's what SexLab thread has and it seems to be going by well enough

 

 

I guess I'ts just me being too "neat", maybe it could be a future idea after someone/I get the thread started.

 

Do you remember what thread me you and yoo (sounds funny when its said like that) did a load of "explination"/guides?

 

Could you add the information you posted to my post and repost it here?

[blabba]

Yoo's excellent post on constraints: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27860-hdt-for-dummies-a-tutorial-someplace/?p=697930

 

and your post (edited a bit with the additional info)

 

 

 

​Generic properties:

Name:

the name of which bone this specific set of details will effect

Motion Type:

The type of object it is, this is very complicated and i have barely touched this.

 >keyframes means the object will follow standard animation positions (I.E. Physics is Disabled)

 >all the others are different types of basic physic shapes, the mesh object will be 'simplified' to this object and will have the physical properties and equations of the object applied to it in physics calculations in-game

Friction:

 The 'drag' force on the object, otherwise known as the friction constant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction

Restitution:

How elastic the collision effects are, 1 being completely elastic, http://en.wikipedia...._of_restitution

 

Advanced Properties

liner Dampening:

Relate to how much 'momentum' is lost in the respective field, these directly relate to the linear and Angular constraints, http://forums.corona...linear-damping/

Angular Dampening:

Relate to how much 'momentum' is lost in the respective field, these directly relate to the linear and Angular constraints, http://forums.corona...linear-damping/

Gravity Factor:

weight/downwards force multiplier i think

Time Factor:

speed of which all effects "run" higher for quicker bounce with shorter effect, lower for slower bounce with longer effect

 

Mass Properties:

Mass:

weight/downwards force of object

Center of Mass:

depicts the placement of the center of the object (In correlation to where the bone is) (I have never had a reason to change this, and I really cant think of one right now...)

Inertia Tensor:

Controls Inertia, Increase numbers to 'tighten' movement and decrease number to 'loosen' it. (I still need to find the physics formula behind this but it is directly correlated to Center Of Mass (COM) and Mass.

 

Collisions:

Shape:

(The mesh object will gain the physical properties of this item in all physics calculations)

GroupID:

This is what defines what the object is considered as when colliding with other objects. allowing for the next one to work.

No Collide With:

this is the "collision control" section, i have no experience with using this so i cant tell you anything

(Link to Yoo's thread about Collision Filter's Guide thread)

 

 

 

You'll have to excuse me if it's a bit messy, did it in a rush

 

P.S. I think by the end of all this there will be a whole list of hilarious word play with Yoo's username, I myself have had a little fun with it xD

[b00marrows]

Woo, thanks for that!

Ok i "added" it, its all in spoiler tags for now untill i can get more lines filled in.

 

Ill use this thread to make the "bare bones" of the thread than move the skeleton to a new thread ready for updating/adding more information.

 

I'm open to anyone adding/modifying there own parts, just post it here and ill take a look (all will receive Thank's and will be named in credits for there participation)

Also link's to more advanced guides would be great too.

 

EDIT: added to Tips & Tricks

[b00marrows]

added another to T&T

 

Added a "how to post log files"

 

EDIT: Edited thread name to actually explain what's going on in here!

[b00marrows]

Added some minor edits...

 

So, anyone have anything they think should be added?

[blabba]

Only thing missing is the chain constraints and the physics 'motors'

 

But I wouldn't worry too much about that for now, as I still don't know how those exactly work

 

the only major thing that I didn't spot was the pivot tab under constraints, stevie posted an excellent guide on how those work. Forgot where it is though

Basically just changes the orientation of 1 object in the constraint pair releative to the other object I believe (collision stuff only I believe)

 

Edit: Thought I would drop this link for the inertia tensors as well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moment_of_inertia_tensors

[b00marrows]

Only thing missing is the chain constraints and the physics 'motors'

 

But I wouldn't worry too much about that for now, as I still don't know how those exactly work

 

the only major thing that I didn't spot was the pivot tab under constraints, stevie posted an excellent guide on how those work. Forgot where it is though

Basically just changes the orientation of 1 object in the constraint pair releative to the other object I believe (collision stuff only I believe)

 

Edit: Thought I would drop this link for the inertia tensors as well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moment_of_inertia_tensors

 

I fiddle'd with chain constraints before, i remember making a post in my tail thread about it. ill copy and past that here for now:

 

 

ball socket chain = twisting but "functional"

powered chain = crash, no idea why.

 

"stiff spring chain" = spazzy/jumpy/stretchy, but has data/functions that i don't understand.

 

If anyone knows any more information and would like to expand on my "test notes" go ahead, ill add it to the thread when you do! (with your name in the "thanks" section OFC!)

 

if you do find the constraints post i would love a link!

 

had a look at that link, and all i can say in "my braaaaiiiinnnnn" I really don't understand it fro the brief look I gave it... maybe another look after I wake up a bit XD

[Yoo]

Well, I cant give you any help with JFF (I should try it one day...) but I could write a guide about creating capes on Max or something like that. Nothing too fancy, but at least it would be a nice base.