Gap between body and sheathed weapons

[Gudulba]

I get this gap on PC and NPCs between body and sheathed weapons (bow, quiver, swords etc. -> see screenshots in spoiler), which I can't seem to permanently solve. I use the latest version of XP32MSSE and RaceMenu for 1.5.97. 

 

In RaceMenu, I can adjust the gap, but eventually it seems to reset itself to the gap again at some point in time.

 

Is RaceMenu the correct way to adjust the gap? Why would it reset itself after some time? Are there any other ways to fix those gaps?

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 10, 2025 by Gudulba

[jonni28]

I recommend you to use Immersive Equipment Display (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/62001).

 

Easy2use sliders to adjust almost everything equipment related.

[traison]

6 hours ago, Gudulba said:

Is RaceMenu the correct way to adjust the gap?

 

Technically I guess the answer is no. The correct way would be to adjust the skeleton directly.

 

Edit: Clarification: I personally wouldn't adjust the skeleton, but adjusting it dynamically with a tool like RaceMenu could be compared to swapping out rocks with Base Object Swapper just because opening the CK and doing it properly was too much work; and yes I realize BOS has actual valid use-cases like seasons.

 

6 hours ago, Gudulba said:

Why would it reset itself after some time?

 

Lots of reasons for that, but I think 2 things are key for how to approach this:

1. Do the relevant RaceMenu sliders also reset, or do you keep having to increase them every time the gap grows? 0 -> 4 -> 8 -> 12 ...
2. Save a jslot file of your character as its initially created, with the gap minimized using RM sliders. Once the gap grows, save another preset and compare the 2 in Notepad, diff or WinMerge. If I'm not mistaken, nioverrides will show up in the transforms array.

6 hours ago, Gudulba said:

Are there any other ways to fix those gaps?

 

Whichever solution you arrive at, keep in mind that a bow is less bulky than a 250 kg warhammer made of Alduin's bones and horns. Your outfit is not as bulky as a vanilla steel armor would be. You can easily get the quiver and bow to be attached to your character's back, but likely be disapointed when you find that the quiver is half way inside the back of your steel armor - or when you notice your character's butt is clipping through the bow.

Edited November 10, 2025 by traison

[anjenthedog]

Might not be the "ideal" method, but I just use the "Weapons" sliders in Racemenu to position/align my weapons, but also to stop clipping with arms and legs, as well as with some of the bulkier armor/clothing options like furs and cloaks

Edited November 10, 2025 by anjenthedog

[Gudulba]

Thank you for all your input. Much appreciated!

 

Now that I have read through some mod description pages again, I might have shot myself an arrow in the knee by cleaning the SKSE co-save with NetImmerse Override Cleaner SE , therefore deleting my RaceMenu weapon changes. Maybe...

 

I will first go down the RaceMenu path again and make screenshots of the sliders and save the profile as suggested just in case for analyzing later on.

 

I have held out so far on  Immersive Equipment Display, because it mentions potential incompatibilities with XPMSSE and Mu Joint Fix, both of which I use. If I have no luck with the RaceMenu path, I will surely have a more thorough look at IED.

-> Actually, do the RaceMenu weapon changes also apply to NPCs? 

[belegost]

17 minutes ago, Gudulba said:

Actually, do the RaceMenu weapon changes also apply to NPCs? 

No.

[anjenthedog]

5 hours ago, Gudulba said:

Now that I have read through some mod description pages again, I might have shot myself an arrow in the knee by cleaning the SKSE co-save with NetImmerse Override Cleaner SE , therefore deleting my RaceMenu weapon changes. Maybe...

I use that mod periodically to clean up leftovers. have not seen it reset weapon changes. (ie Racemenu weapons tab adjustments for a player)

 

In any case, once you've set your weapon orientations/positioning, save it with the active player preset (and if you don't have one yet , I'd recommend saving at least one for future reference. That way, if anything *does* feck with it, (including any of your own mistakes while editing player preset)  you can just reload your "safe" preset

 

Quote

... Immersive Equipment Display, because it mentions potential incompatibilities with XPMSSE and Mu Joint Fix...

 

Not sure about that one since I don't use it, but since it apparently recognizes incompatibilities with XPMSSE, that could be an issue.

Edited November 11, 2025 by anjenthedog

[Gudulba]

Ok, so I made a quick test with NetImmerse Override Cleaner SE and cleaned the co-save with the exception for ID 14. And indeed, it didn't affect the weapon changes I had made at all. So that tool can be ruled out regarding my resetting issue.

 

But the reset issue surfaced again... The sliders in the RaceMenu Weapons tab were definitely reset again to their default values. Here's a screenshot of the first lines of a Notepad++ comparison of the two jslot files (left was saved when I had customized the sliders, right I saved after the sliders were reset again):

Spoiler

Is it normal that the plugin names are different??

 

When reloading the left, customized jslot file, the weapon sliders were again correctly set to the values I manually had set them to. So reloading a profile works fine. Let's see how long it will last...

 

Actually, are all those slider settings (Weapons and all the others ) exclusively saved in the co-save file or does the saved jslot profile file have to be enabled as an active mod in MO2? In any case, I moved the two saved jslot files into a custom mod folder.

Edited November 18, 2025 by Gudulba

[traison]

1 hour ago, Gudulba said:

Is it normal that the plugin names are different??

 

It looks like too many things changed positions in that file for diff to be useful. Diff only works well when details of text change:

Spoiler

file_old.txt:

[SectionA]
KeyA=10
KeyB=10

 

file_new.txt:

[SectionA]
KeyA=20
KeyB=10

 

diff:

2c2
< KeyA=10
---
> KeyA=20

 

1 hour ago, Gudulba said:

Actually, are all those slider settings (Weapons and all the others ) exclusively saved in the co-save file...

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, Gudulba said:

...or does the saved jslot profile file have to be enabled as an active mod in MO2?

 

jslot files are your RaceMenu cosave settings exported to a human-readable format. It's used for transfering characters between saves. I use it to debug RaceMenu issues. It has nothing to do with whether or not your RaceMenu sliders reset.

 

1 hour ago, Gudulba said:

But the reset issue surfaced again...

 

From the screenshots, the thing that sticks out to me is that the mod that added the XPMSEAABase_bowidle bodyMorphs array entry used the key "RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp" which is the key 3BA and (presumably) CBBE use for body morphs. XPMSE uses the following keys: "XPMSE", "XPMSE.esp" or "RSMBodyGen".

 

If I were you, I'd search for "RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp" in all pex files in all mods, including in BSA archives. Cross-reference these with a search for "XPMSEAABase" or "bowidle" and see what you get. I've made a utility that can do the search. It's available upon request.

Edited November 18, 2025 by traison

[Gudulba]

So I have conducted the search, searching for RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp and for XPMSEAABase. (on a side note, I love the Needle and Haystack pun 🙂 )

 

Short summary:

 

-> RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Content Match Results: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\CBBE 3BA\scripts\RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.pex
\CBBE 3BA\scripts\RaceMenuMorphsCBBEUIExtensions.pex

 

 

-> XPMSEAABase

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Content Match Results: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended\scripts\XPMSEWeaponQuest.pex
\XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended\scripts\XPMSEWeaponStyleScaleEffect.pex

 

Whole output:

Spoiler

"SkyrimStringSearch.exe" -f bp --exclude b RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp D:\Games\ZZZ_Tools\ModOrganizer\mods
Filter: bp
Excluding: b
Needle: RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
Haystack: D:\Games\ZZZ_Tools\ModOrganizer\mods
Using 8 thread(s)
Enumerating files...
Found 423777 files.
Searching...
Searched: 14, filtered: 196 so far. (0% done)
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Files searched (total): 23755
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Content Match Results: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\CBBE 3BA\scripts\RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.pex
\CBBE 3BA\scripts\RaceMenuMorphsCBBEUIExtensions.pex

******************************

"SkyrimStringSearch.exe" -f bp --exclude b XPMSEAABase D:\Games\ZZZ_Tools\ModOrganizer\mods
Filter: bp
Excluding: b
Needle: XPMSEAABase
Haystack: D:\Games\ZZZ_Tools\ModOrganizer\mods
Using 8 thread(s)
Enumerating files...
Found 423780 files.
Searching...
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Files searched (total): 23755
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Content Match Results: 2
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\XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended\scripts\XPMSEWeaponQuest.pex
\XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended\scripts\XPMSEWeaponStyleScaleEffect.pex

 

 

By the way, I have also attached the two RaceMenu profiles (before and after gap) in case that helps.

RaceMenu profiles.7z

Edited November 21, 2025 by Gudulba

[traison]

Now that I've seen the presets I see that the bowidle entries were added by XPMSE and not CBBE. The screenshot posted before was misleading. Search results confirm that as well.

 

There's no differences in the bowidle values in these presets, so I'm thinking perhaps that's not the correct morph. What's the name of the slider you're adjusting in RaceMenu to get rid of the gap?

[Gudulba]

For the sword, it's for example "Sword Roll", for the Greatsword "Greatsword Forward/Back" and for the bow and quiver "Bow Forward/Back" and "Quiver Forward/Back" among other sliders -> see screenshots here:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2025 by Gudulba

[traison]

Right so my assumptions were wrong. This is what the "Bow Forward/Back" slider maps to:

CME WeaponBowDefault

CME WeaponBowChesko

CME WeaponBowBetter

CME WeaponBowFSM

 

All of these are present in the perset that has been adjusted, and they're missing from the preset where the gap has returned. Also, all of these are listed under the transforms array which makes far more sense than the bowidle that was listed under morphs.

 

With that said, 2 options as I see it:

1. Something has removed the transforms on these nodes.
2. Yet another RaceMenu bug. RM itself dropped these values.

Option 1 seems far more likely right now, so I'd do another search through all pex scripts in all mods, including in BSA archives for the following:

• CME WeaponBowDefault
• RemoveNodeTransformPosition
• RemoveAllTransforms (unlikely)

[Gudulba]

Ok, here we go:

 

****************************

"SkyrimStringSearch.exe" -f bp --exclude b "CME WeaponBowDefault"
Filter: bp
Excluding: b
Needle: CME WeaponBowDefault

Content Match Results: 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\Devious Devices\Devious Devices For Him.bsa
\XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended\scripts\RaceMenuPluginWeapons.pex

****************************

 

****************************

"SkyrimStringSearch.exe" -f bp --exclude b RemoveNodeTransformPosition
Filter: bp
Excluding: b
Needle: RemoveNodeTransformPosition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Content Match Results: 17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\RaceMenu Special Edition\RaceMenu.bsa
\Captive Player\scripts\ddCaptiveDefeat.pex
\DarkDesiresCircleOfLust\scripts\ddlustMain.pex
\Devious Devices\scripts\zadclibs.pex
\Devious Devices\scripts\zadx_HobbleSkirtEffectScript.pex
\Display Model SE DM3\scripts\dse_dm_QuestUtil.pex
\Flower Girls Slot Handler\Scripts\dxaliasactorbase.pex
\HeelsFix\scripts\HeelsFixCorrectEffect.pex
\HeelsFix\scripts\HeelsFixMCM.pex
\RaceMenu High Heels Fixes\Scripts.mohidden\RaceMenuHHScaleEffect.pex
\SexLab Separate Orgasm\Scripts\sslActorAlias.pex
\SexLab Utility Plus\scripts\sslActorAlias.pex
\SexLab Utility Plus\scripts\sslThreadController.pex
\SexLabFrameworkSE\scripts\sslActorAlias.pex
\SubmissiveLolaResubmission\Scripts\vkjmq.pex
\Trap Needs to be Real Trap TNTR\scripts\TNTRControllerScript.pex
\XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended\scripts\XPMSELib.pex

****************************

 

****************************

"SkyrimStringSearch.exe" -f bp --exclude b RemoveAllTransforms
Filter: bp
Excluding: b
Needle: RemoveAllTransforms

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Content Match Results: 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\RaceMenu Special Edition\RaceMenu.bsa

****************************

Edited November 22, 2025 by Gudulba

[traison]

So your list of suspects is as follows:

1. Captive Player
2. DarkDesiresCircleOfLust
3. Devious Devices
4. Display Model SE DM3
5. Flower Girls Slot Handler
6. HeelsFix
7. RaceMenu High Heels Fixes
8. SexLab Separate Orgasm
9. SexLab Utility Plus
10. SexLabFrameworkSE
11. SubmissiveLolaResubmission
12. Trap Needs to be Real Trap TNTR

Even though "CME WeaponBowDefault" only shows up in XP32, there's other ways for these mods to get the transform keys and nodes so we can't cross-reference those. I suggest you start removing mods until the problem goes away.

Edited November 22, 2025 by traison

[Gudulba]

As the issue only seems to occur randomly, I have to wait until the next occurence. But this mod list will definitely help me to narrow down the issue.

 

Thank you all for your support. Much appreciated!

[traison]

If you're not allergic to hex editing and Papyrus scripting, you could consider looking into changing the script name under which RaceMenu registers functions which would allow you to repurpose NiOverride.pex as a sort of proxy libray where you can put debug printing. This would immediately show you which mod is calling which function. Offset 1964576 (0x1DFA20) in skee64.dll looks most suspicious, but it would have to be confirmed in a debugger to be sure.

[Gudulba]

Hmm, I will try to give it a shot, but this looks like it's a bit above my "pay grade"... 🙂