XunAmarox Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Ulfric et al were ambushed at Darkwater Crossing. You were caught crossing the border. The blue line is the most logical path to take to get out of enemy territory, but considering they were using carriages and vanilla NPC's pretty much only use those on roads... the green line is where the road leading from Darkwater Crossing to Helgen takes them. My conclusion? You crossed near Autumwatch Tower then got gnabbed by patrols out of the Rift Imperial Camp and due to whatever unfortunate circumstances the carts carrying Ulfric and the other rebels were likely at that camp at that given moment and in the confusion you were just put onto the cart with them since you were a prisoner as well. Hopefully that'll help you guys in your character's stories, if you wanna get all technical into it.
Dagimpyman Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Makes sense, because that's about right north of Bruma, where the Dragonborn could have come from (or at least he did in my "canon character's" story).
cornbreadtm Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Technically you get caught crossing the border from Cyrodiil, meaning you would be caught coming over from one of the 2 gates in Falkreath most like the one leading from Bruma, near Southfringe Sanctum... Like your graph shows the game says you get caught closer to the border from Morrowind... but everything is so convoluted that I'm pretty sure it was a dragon break... I think Bethesda was going to make the Dragonborn a Nord who lived in Skyrim (Kind of Shepard being only human thing) and got caught during a Stormcloak raid. Being a Nord kind just fits the bill. But they decided to add the crossing the border from Cyrodiil bit in there so any race had a reason for the arrest. It was obviously a last minute story shift since the border crossing seems forced, they had no reason to behead you when they could have just sent you along to Whiterun once they kill Ulfric. About 50% of the game only makes sense if you're a Nord, if you're any other race they kind of hand wave your involvement or have a line of dialog suggesting that you to dumb not to get involve in something that doesn't concern you. Like Forsworn, they aren't bandits they literally don't care about other races and only really hate Nords so it doesn't make much sense to be attacked by them without provocation unless you are a Nord.
Guest Mogie56 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 well problem I've had with the whole thing is what did the dragonborn do to be nabbed by the imperials n the first place since he/she is not on any imperial list. Don't much care for the lore of skyrim, just rubs me the wrong way. Skyrim is a bunch of racists and Imperials are a bunch of murdering crazies ready to chop off heads at the drop of a hat. They painted this story with the wrong brush for me, which is why I stick to the custom races and play my own fantasy game.
Dagimpyman Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Like your graph shows the game says you get caught closer to the border from Morrowind The Cyrodiil/Morrowind border is actually still a long way further east from that point, a little east of Riften. You're right though about having to roll a Nord to really "feel" the plot.
Taskmaster Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Interesting findings... I've still yet to play as the Dragonborn, and I'd most likely do it as Nord.
XunAmarox Posted January 16, 2014 Author Posted January 16, 2014 Well, I can understand in a way how the Dragonborn ends up in their situation. They cross the mountains and run into an Imperial patrol. Perhaps they don't have a very convincing Nord accent? lol, or maybe they search you and find your map plotting your path from Cyrodiil. Anyways, they arrest you for illegally crossing the border and take your things. At some point you may have struggled and got knocked out and inconveniently the caravan of carriages carrying the ambushed Stormcloak were stopped at the same camp and with you unconscious and the soldiers probably spiteful for you struggling or possibly changing shifts, you're just tossed into the cart with all the other prisoners in the confusion. Just one big misunderstanding... Personally I can't really play Skyrim as anything but a racist Nord. I don't really like Argonian, Khajiit, or Elves myself personally (the way they look creeps me out), so it plays in pretty easily to my own feelings on the races in Skyrim. The bigger dilemma is which side to choose, or to choose any at all. The way I see it, Ulfric challenged Torygg in the old ways and won. By rights, he should have been named High King. But the holds are ran by a bunch of milk drinkers. The bad thing is that I can see that Skyrim really probably will fall to the Thalmor without the Empire's help, but with that said... The Empire is no longer the Empire and has not had a legitimate ruler since Potema, or Pelagius, when the Septim bloodline died out. Without one of dragon blood on the throne it is an illegitmate empire. Akatosh made a deal with St Alessia to hold back the gates of Oblivion as long as one of the dragon blood sat on the Imperial throne. Not to mention it's just so damned corrupt! Every single one of the major Imperial holds... Siddgeir the Jarl of Falkreath is as bad as they come. He allows bandits to operate freely within his hold as long as he gets a cut of the profits. Has he forgotten a Jarl's duty is to protect its people? He's also clearly attached to the Thalmor's backside. Hell, he didn't even become Jarl legitimately... Maven Blackbriar, not a Jarl yet, but if Riften were to fall under Imperial control... the horror. She is everything wrong with Riften. She has her hands in both the Thieves guild AND the Dark Brotherhood. She has hired thugs, and I wouldn't touch that poison she calls mead even if you paid me! (Everyone talks about it being good but truth be told it's terrible. Look at the stamina gained and then the regeneration hit. Honningbrew is far superior. The best in Skyrim? You can get that from Talen-Jei at the Riften Inn. 25 stamina with no downside whatsoever. Markarth... Do I even need to mention the Forsworn, corruption, and the, ahem... Cidhna Mine (e.g. concentration camp) And of course Solitude doesn't get any better... Elisif is a total airheaded idiot, completely dependent on her steward Falk Firebeard and General Tulius. Not even fit to be a Jarl in my book, well alone High Queen. All of those mentioned are seen at the Thalmor embassy as well, kissing Thalmor backside. With all of that in mind, it's kind of hard to side with the Imperials. You're Dragonborn, the Stormcloaks support Talos, worshiping Talos yourself even grants you a reduction in your shout recharges, and Ulfric himself can even shout. Even the Companions side with the Stormcloaks. I think they really set the game up where it would be hard not to side with the Stormcloaks, especially considering they were trying to take off your head at the beginning of the game, and for no good reason. Hell, on many a playthrough I've joined the rebellion just for revenge.
Duoleb The Chosen Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Well, I can understand in a way how the Dragonborn ends up in their situation. They cross the mountains and run into an Imperial patrol. Perhaps they don't have a very convincing Nord accent? lol, or maybe they search you and find your map plotting your path from Cyrodiil. Anyways, they arrest you for illegally crossing the border and take your things. At some point you may have struggled and got knocked out and inconveniently the caravan of carriages carrying the ambushed Stormcloak were stopped at the same camp and with you unconscious and the soldiers probably spiteful for you struggling or possibly changing shifts, you're just tossed into the cart with all the other prisoners in the confusion. Just one big misunderstanding... Personally I can't really play Skyrim as anything but a racist Nord. I don't really like Argonian, Khajiit, or Elves myself personally (the way they look creeps me out), so it plays in pretty easily to my own feelings on the races in Skyrim. The bigger dilemma is which side to choose, or to choose any at all. The way I see it, Ulfric challenged Torygg in the old ways and won. By rights, he should have been named High King. But the holds are ran by a bunch of milk drinkers. The bad thing is that I can see that Skyrim really probably will fall to the Thalmor without the Empire's help, but with that said... The Empire is no longer the Empire and has not had a legitimate ruler since Potema, or Pelagius, when the Septim bloodline died out. Without one of dragon blood on the throne it is an illegitmate empire. Akatosh made a deal with St Alessia to hold back the gates of Oblivion as long as one of the dragon blood sat on the Imperial throne. Not to mention it's just so damned corrupt! Every single one of the major Imperial holds... Siddgeir the Jarl of Falkreath is as bad as they come. He allows bandits to operate freely within his hold as long as he gets a cut of the profits. Has he forgotten a Jarl's duty is to protect its people? He's also clearly attached to the Thalmor's backside. Hell, he didn't even become Jarl legitimately... Maven Blackbriar, not a Jarl yet, but if Riften were to fall under Imperial control... the horror. She is everything wrong with Riften. She has her hands in both the Thieves guild AND the Dark Brotherhood. She has hired thugs, and I wouldn't touch that poison she calls mead even if you paid me! (Everyone talks about it being good but truth be told it's terrible. Look at the stamina gained and then the regeneration hit. Honningbrew is far superior. The best in Skyrim? You can get that from Talen-Jei at the Riften Inn. 25 stamina with no downside whatsoever. Markarth... Do I even need to mention the Forsworn, corruption, and the, ahem... Cidhna Mine (e.g. concentration camp) And of course Solitude doesn't get any better... Elisif is a total airheaded idiot, completely dependent on her steward Falk Firebeard and General Tulius. Not even fit to be a Jarl in my book, well alone High Queen. All of those mentioned are seen at the Thalmor embassy as well, kissing Thalmor backside. With all of that in mind, it's kind of hard to side with the Imperials. You're Dragonborn, the Stormcloaks support Talos, worshiping Talos yourself even grants you a reduction in your shout recharges, and Ulfric himself can even shout. Even the Companions side with the Stormcloaks. I think they really set the game up where it would be hard not to side with the Stormcloaks, especially considering they were trying to take off your head at the beginning of the game, and for no good reason. Hell, on many a playthrough I've joined the rebellion just for revenge. which is completelly retarded -Head of the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild = Maven fucking fears you now -Elisif doesn't know how to be a jarl yet, But she's learning from Falk -The Thalmor has basically Zero power in Solitude thus even with the Embassy they are more occupied trying to take hammerfell from the redguards or Trying to take solstheim, now that there's a full powerful dragonborn with the Divines and the Good Daedra protecting him along with a army of dragons walking on tamriel again their plans have changed. -Ulfric is a complete Asshole, even Rikke tells you that this is just a powerplay from him to take power, he's right in some points but he cares only for himself and nothing else, the Dunmer in Windhelm... Teldryn has sayed Before, "its just a bunch of Bitter people"
dobmc Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Pretty interesting that even after two years since release, people discuss these kinds of stuff. But wow this took a long time to figure out, good job. No I'm not kidding, I thought people would have discussed this long ago but apparently I'm wrong.
Guest corespore Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 That's why i use alternate start. At the very least it allows you to choose a beginings that somewhat matches your idea for your character. The border crossing excuse Bethesda came up with was lame. Who's to say that the reason your AVI was crossing the border wasn't to go to the capital of Cyrodiil to join the legion? And when was it a crime to cross the border? The gameplay for skyrim somewhat makes up for the sketch story line....but only somewhat. Bethesda has a habit of releasing games half complete then relaying on the modding community to actually make the game good and fix all the glitches. i doubt people would be so forgiving if publishers sold a book series such as harry potter with 1/4 of all the pages missing or the Twilight series where all the main character names were accidentally replaced with "error 414". Yet we tolerate that crap in video games all the time. My favorite race in Skyrim is the breton (because of the magic resistance) and when i would start the game they Harold would comment about how my character was trying to escape some court intrigue in highrock which means i would have had to cross the border to get into Skyrim illegally in the first place but then they try to chop off my head for then trying to leave Skyrim? And i still can't get over the fact all Alduin had to do to win would have been to show up five seconds late to Helgan
XunAmarox Posted January 16, 2014 Author Posted January 16, 2014 Of course Rikke tells you that... they're enemies! For goodness sake... Just listen to the people in Solitude talk about the poor guard that they're executing like he's the worst scum on the planet. In reality, he was a good and honorable man that respected the old traditions. Elisif is not learning from Falk. Falk is doing everything for her. Every time she tries to do anything it's absolutely horrible and everyone has to step in to correct her. And in any real situation she defers to Tulius. She is worthless. And remember, Ulfric is leading his side of the war. Tulius, not Elisif, is leading the other side of the war. She isn't a leader, she isn't even a good Jarl. She's a grieving widow who loves the Thalmor. If you were to become the leader of the Thieves guild and the Dark Brotherhood you yourself would be even more corrupt than Maven, so that's an incredibly moot point. You can destroy the Dark Brotherhood; the same can't be said for the thieves guild, though leaving them to their own devices they'll likely destroy themselves without your help. Maven is everything bad about Riften, and if the Imperials were to take over Riften they would make her Jarl. Regardless if you're even more corrupt than she is or not, you can't argue that she is vile and corrupt to the core. I doubt you could argue for the other Jarls I mentioned either. You'll notice a recurring theme... The people who say that Ulfric just wants power for himself, they're his enemies. They're the same enemies that called an honorable challenge in the old ways of the nord people a murder, the same people that kill innocent men for nothing (gate guard of solitude, Lokir, you), the same people getting rich off of Imperial coin and becoming completely corrupt, the same people that go to all of the Thalmor parties, and yes... they are everything that is wrong with Skyrim. The Empire has grown weak, corrupt... and its legionaires are milk drinkers. As for the Dunmer... screw the Dunmer. Skyrim has a long and bloody history fighting Elves, its deep within their culture to hate them and history has given them reasons for it time and time again. You can't quote any NPC in the game and call it truth. They are just characters playing a role. They are not omnipotent nor perfect. You have to look at the larger picture. Don't listen to what they say, but look at what they do. The corruption alone is impossible to miss. You'd have to be blind not to see it. Of course, after the events of the main quest and all the DLC's you could probably conquer the Aldmeri Dominion yourself.
Guest corespore Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 If you read the Ulfric dossier in the thalmar embassy during the quest where Delphine sends you there to find about the dragon attacks the Thalmar themselves admit that Ulfric was working for them and they want him to win the civil war to destabilize the empire. I never could understand why one of the most explosive documents in Skyrim was never put in into play. Hell, you should have been able to bring it to WIndhelm and show it to the stormcloaks, they would have killed Ulfric themselves, end of civil war.
h38fh2mf Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 I agree when I read that document I thought this is huge and game just forgets about this. They didn't say they want ulfric to win they said victory of either side should be avoided and not sure if stormcloaks would kill ulfric because of this, it could just be thalmor lies to them. However it is still something that is too important to just ignore.
Dagimpyman Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 That is just not true, Ulfric is not working for the Thalmor. At one point they were cooperating, yes, because the Thalmor had the resources he needed to challenge the Empire and were willing to provide him with such. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It says even in the dossier itself that he was no longer responsive to their overtures after the Markarth incident, probably because he decided that he no longer needed them at this point and thus was no longer forced to deal with someone he hated. The Thalmor still consider him an asset because what he's doing is greatly helping them in their goal to destabilize the Empire, which is why that dossier about him exists. They don't want him dead because that would hurt their own position. But they are not friends - not at all. And I am more than willing to bet that Ulfric would kill them if he could, now that he has his rebellion in full swing.
linknut888 Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Of course Rikke tells you that... they're enemies! For goodness sake... Just listen to the people in Solitude talk about the poor guard that they're executing like he's the worst scum on the planet. In reality, he was a good and honorable man that respected the old traditions. Elisif is not learning from Falk. Falk is doing everything for her. Every time she tries to do anything it's absolutely horrible and everyone has to step in to correct her. And in any real situation she defers to Tulius. She is worthless. And remember, Ulfric is leading his side of the war. Tulius, not Elisif, is leading the other side of the war. She isn't a leader, she isn't even a good Jarl. She's a grieving widow who loves the Thalmor. If you were to become the leader of the Thieves guild and the Dark Brotherhood you yourself would be even more corrupt than Maven, so that's an incredibly moot point. You can destroy the Dark Brotherhood; the same can't be said for the thieves guild, though leaving them to their own devices they'll likely destroy themselves without your help. Maven is everything bad about Riften, and if the Imperials were to take over Riften they would make her Jarl. Regardless if you're even more corrupt than she is or not, you can't argue that she is vile and corrupt to the core. I doubt you could argue for the other Jarls I mentioned either. You'll notice a recurring theme... The people who say that Ulfric just wants power for himself, they're his enemies. They're the same enemies that called an honorable challenge in the old ways of the nord people a murder, the same people that kill innocent men for nothing (gate guard of solitude, Lokir, you), the same people getting rich off of Imperial coin and becoming completely corrupt, the same people that go to all of the Thalmor parties, and yes... they are everything that is wrong with Skyrim. The Empire has grown weak, corrupt... and its legionaires are milk drinkers. As for the Dunmer... screw the Dunmer. Skyrim has a long and bloody history fighting Elves, its deep within their culture to hate them and history has given them reasons for it time and time again. You can't quote any NPC in the game and call it truth. They are just characters playing a role. They are not omnipotent nor perfect. You have to look at the larger picture. Don't listen to what they say, but look at what they do. The corruption alone is impossible to miss. You'd have to be blind not to see it. Of course, after the events of the main quest and all the DLC's you could probably conquer the Aldmeri Dominion yourself. Well, I'm gonna start at the top. 1. Just because they're enemies doesn't mean they're lying, hurr durr. Lonely-Gale, the guy who takes over Windhelm from Ulfric when I kill him, says himself, basically, "Ulfric only cares about Ulfric, and Nords who support him." He's an arrogant racist who just wants to be High King. Also, the Thalmor Dossier on him is more about their breaking his mind to support them when they want him to. Kinda like a hypnotist "snap-the-fingers" thing. Unfortunately for them, they can't get close enough to get it to work, because he's surrounded by people who would attack any Thalmor on sight. 2. The guy executed at Solitude? Roggvir, I think? He may have respected the old traditions, but honorable? Talk with some Solitude residents, the guy was an obnoxious asshole, and a bully. 3. Elisif may not be a good Jarl, but she knows how to listen. That's why she has people helping her. Literally none of the Jarls do everything by themselves. None. I mean that using the proper definition of literally. They all have advisers that they listen to, and follow along with their advice. Elisif just happens to say stupider things before listening to reason. Also she loves the Thalmor? What are you smoking? That's just not a thing. At all. 4. Maven may be a terrible person, but Jarl Laila, before her, was even worse. Laila had NO CLUE what was happening in Riften at all. I'd rather Maven be the leader of Riften, at least then it'd be easier to get rid of the corruption in Riften; just blow the main hall the fuck up. Done and done. Blow up the Ratway afterwards. Problem solved. And as for the other Jarls? Yeah, a lot of them suck. But not much we can do about that. Good think Elisif, Lonely-Gale, and a few other Imperials are some of the most honestly nice towards the people they rule over. And that's a good thing. 5. The old ways? If you side with Hadvar to start the game, talk to his uncle about that, the smith at Riverwood. The old ways stopped because, as he puts it, (not a direct quote as I'm too lazy to look up exacts) "And if the Jarls start murdering each other again, we'll go back to the old ways, when that's all that happened. So the Imperials stepped in to stop that shit." Again, not really what he said. But basically, the Imperials didn't want Solitude to become murder-central if people thought it was okay to murder someone to become High King. Imagine how badly that would go. 6. Yeah, some Imperials are corrupt and/or lazy. However, not all. One of my favorite lines from Tullius is when you talk to him to join the Legion. He recognizes you from Helgen, and that you were a prisoner. He is a little aggressive about it, but when you point out you want to join the Legion, he says, and I quote, "Besides, I'm sure (your arrest) was all a terrible misunderstanding." Nobody besides that crazy Imperial captain lady from the start is so murder-happy. Roggvir deserved it, Lokir was an escaping prisoner (who basically yelled out "CAN'T GET ME ASSHOLES") and you? Everyone besides the captain is like "Well, shit. Sorry, dude/chick. I'll make sure your body gets the proper treatment." Then you escape and they're like, "Great, you're alive. Wanna go save Skyrim? Shit's going down here." 7. Yeah, the Imperial Jarls go to the Thalmor parties, but only because it's kinda a good idea to be on the Thalmor's "good" side. They even say to you "HAHAHA EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE TRUSTS NOBODY ELSE HERE." Or, to quote Jarl Idgrod, "Be careful, as you walk among adders." Then, "THE SNAKES OH GODS HAHA it's cool guys I'm a crazy old lady." Only weird drunk Erikur likes the parties, and that's for the free alcohol he gets. Also, if the Legionaires are milk drinkers, how have they been holding off the rebellion for so long? They aren't the ones that SURRENDERED when they get ambushed. Oh, did you miss that? Ulfric straight up surrendered when the Empire pulled off their ambush on him. What a wimp. But I will give you that the Empire is a shadow of it's former self; too bad nobody will argue that, ever. Hell, the game's LOGO is the symbol of the empire, broken and damaged. Symbolism much? 8. Going back a bit, way to ignore the corrupt Stormcloaks. Thonar Silver-Blood is worse by far than any other Jarl that there is, yes, even Maven. She has bad alcohol? He controls the Forsworn to murder people with alarming frequency. More so than Maven uses the Dark Brotherhood to murder people, which is to say, she never really does. With her, she uses them as a threat, and the Thieve's Guild to accomplish her goals. 9. Screw the Dunmer? I dunno, I'm not a racist. I kinda like them. They have a club! A CORNERclub! Woo! Also, lately, the Nords have just been hating on the Dunmer for no reason whatsoever. Or did you just ignore the scene when you first enter Windhelm? Ooh! Even better, you were probably an asshole to that nice, bullied Dunmer woman and said "HAHA I HATE THE DUNMER FAGGOT DIE IN A HOLE". (You lost 10 karma... oh wait wrong game) And you know what else is in Nord culture? Murdering people to be High King! And look how great that's going! It's going so well, it brought back THE DRAGON THAT WANTS TO DEVOUR EVERYTHING TO END THE WORLD! Yay, traditions! 10. You'd have to be blind to miss the corruption? Ah, the irony. Might want to get some glasses, buddy. 11. Hey, I agree with you! Wanna go stick our Dragonplate boots up the Dominions collective assholes together while we debate this? Puts a double meaning behind "flame war"! Flaming each other, during a war! Sure to confuse the daylights (and internal organs) out of the Dominion! All in all, I agree with you for some parts, and think you're horrendously (maybe even hilariously) missing the point at others. Take some of your own advice. Talk to EVERYBODY. Sew together their stories. And learn the truth from that. Ulfric's a racist asshole. Maven's a corrupt bitch. Riften's trashy anyway, so who cares. Silver-bloods are also corrupt bitches. Elisif's kinda naive, but hey, she can learn, as she knows she has room to learn, unlike others, who think they're amazing and perfect. Of course Tullius is leading the war, he's the GENERAL, and they're defending Skyrim from the Stormcloaks. Et cetera, et cetera. Also, I just remembered one last thing. The smith at Riverwood? Alvor, I think? He mentions that all the crap going on with Talos worship wasn't a thing at all, until Ulfric made it a thing. Everyone had their own little shrine to Talos, and the Dominion didn't really care to much, it was really a symbolic political thing, and then Ulfric was like "NOOOOOOO I HATE YOU GUYS IMMA WORSHIP TALOS ANYWAY SUCK IT ELVES" and the Dominion looked at each other, shrugged, and said. "Well, time to go actually ENFORCE this rule. Fuck." and did so.
Dagimpyman Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Also, I just remembered one last thing. The smith at Riverwood? Alvor, I think? He mentions that all the crap going on with Talos worship wasn't a thing at all, until Ulfric made it a thing. Everyone had their own little shrine to Talos, and the Dominion didn't really care to much, it was really a symbolic political thing, and then Ulfric was like "NOOOOOOO I HATE YOU GUYS IMMA WORSHIP TALOS ANYWAY SUCK IT ELVES" and the Dominion looked at each other, shrugged, and said. "Well, time to go actually ENFORCE this rule. Fuck." and did so. I want to point out though that the time span between the end of the Great War and the Markarth incident was just one year. So of course the Thalmor didn't crack down yet, they were too busy licking their wounds from the war and subjugating Hammerfell (which didn't work out too well). That does not mean they wouldn't have done so in the near future. And no, I don't think that is just baseless speculation, as all Thalmor activity up to this point indicates pretty strongly that they would have done it. So Ulfric just took the first step in a conflict that was bound to escalate sooner rather than later anyway. And besides, Markarth and the reach unlawfully seceded from Skyrim, and neither the Empire nor the High King did a damn thing to bring that territory back into Skyrim's fold, so Ulfric just took the initiative here as well when he besieged the city. And I think he felt entirely justified to do so, since he as jarl never accepted the White Gold Concordat (and he's not alone in that, Hammerfell rejected it as well, albeit for different reasons). And before you say he's a hypocrite because he fights for Skyrim's independence (I'm gonna avoid using the loaded term "freedom" here) but at the same time doesn't grant that privilege to the Reachmen, keep in mind that Ulfric doesn't fight for some lofty ideals or philosophies of freedom and self-determination - he fights for Skyrim and for its people (that being Nords), and that's it. I also just want to say here that I do not identify strongly with either the Empire or the Stormcloaks, as both sides have some good arguments why they hold the moral high ground, so there's that. It's all subjective.
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