Who would win in a free for all fight? (Read the description below for the rules)

[RedHeadAngel]

Of these 4 Elder Scrolls protagonists, who would win in an all-out fight to the death? To make this easier, I'm putting down a few rules.

 

- All characters are their default races. So, Nerevarine is a Dunmer, HoK is an Imperial, and DB is a Nord. However, as the Vestige doesn't have a default race (none that I could find), I'm making them a Breton. Why? For some variety. Gender is irrelevant. Use your imagination for that one.

 

- All characters have max stats and their best gear. However, to make this fair, all optional stuff is banned from the fight. So, no vampirism, lycanthropy, factions/faction-only gear or abilities (Dark Brotherhood, Guilds, Blades, Companions, Stormcloaks, etc), Daedra items, and so on. Example, no Dawnbreaker or Nightingale armor or abilities. However, according to a commenter, the Nerevarine can level up indefinitely. Therefore, I'm capping them at 100 to make this fair.

 

- All characters have every spell in the game within the rules of this poll. For DB, all shouts will be added, as well.

 

- No outside help. No summoning dragons to the fight, Dovahkiin!

 

- Only canon achievements are to be considered. So, only stuff from the main games and DLCs. No mods allowed. So, if CoC did become Sheogorath, that will be allowed.

 

- Only the default characters are to be considered. I don't care what your Nord Skyrim character, Sifnus Big-Schlong, had achieved. It's irrelevant here.

 

- Finally, this is meant to be fun. So, don't be a jerk, OK? If you disagree with anything here, just leave.

Edited May 21, 2025 by RedHeadAngel
Changed the name of the Champion of Cyrodiil to Hero of Kvatch, as the name is more commonly used. Also, made an addition to the rules.

[Miauzi]

Clear winner -> the "Hero of Kvatch" ... who is (through the apotheosis in the DLC "Shivering Isles") the current Sheogorath

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Protagonist_(Oblivion)

[NymphoElf]

With each of these characters being capable of killing god-level threats in various ways or for various reasons, my vote is The Last Dragonborn. Why? Because TLD can effectively manipulate Time and Space, which is an effectively all-powerful tool set.

 

Sure, the CoC became Sheogorath, but if TLD can kill an aspect of Akatosh, I'm sure he can find a way to kill Sheogorath. Especially considering TLD is the new Champion of Hermaeus Mora, who I can only imagine knows how to kill gods reliably. Knowledge is power, and Hermaeus Mora has (almost) all of the knowledge you could hope for.

[RavenOryon]

While they all grow to be powerful, the edge definitely goes to the Hero of Kvatch/Chamption of Cyrodil, he literally becomes a god. As powerful as the Neravarine, Last Dragonborn and the Vestige are they  are at the end of the day mortal. 

 

While the last dragonborn did subdue Alduin, he did not actually kill him AND he required the help of the 3 fallen heroes in Sovngarde .

The Neravarine did kill Alamexia, however that was after her god powers had faded away. 

The vestige defeated Molag Bal, but that was very much with the help of Meridia.

 

To become Sheogorath, the Champion of Cyrodil defeated Jyggalag, an entity powerful enough that the other Daedra lords ganged up on him and brought on Sheogorath in the 1st place.  The winner in my mind is clear.

(Great topic of discussion btw)

[Miauzi]

Vor 52 Minuten sagte NymphoElf:

Da jeder dieser Charaktere in der Lage ist, Bedrohungen auf Götterebene auf unterschiedliche Weise oder aus unterschiedlichen Gründen zu töten, stimme ich für „Der letzte Drachengeborene“. Warum? Weil TLD Zeit und Raum effektiv manipulieren kann, was ein praktisch allmächtiges Werkzeug darstellt.

 

Klar, der CoC wurde zu Sheogorath, aber wenn TLD einen Aspekt von Akatosh töten kann, bin ich sicher, dass er auch Sheogorath töten kann. Vor allem, wenn man bedenkt, dass TLD der neue Champion von Hermaeus Mora ist, der, wie ich mir nur vorstellen kann, weiß, wie man Götter zuverlässig tötet. Wissen ist Macht, und Hermaeus Mora besitzt (fast) alles Wissen, das man sich wünschen kann.

 

The hero of Kvatch defeats -> "Jyggalag" ... of whom all these "gods" are almost mortal in their fear - why did they jointly devise this "curse"?

 

Overall, it's very difficult to work with "mortal" arguments on the "god level" ... even before his "mantle," Talos was an entity made up of three "humans" - who were actually mortal aspects of a deity (Lokan).

 

Actually, all the protagonists in the TES games -> are not human but mortal shells of "gods" - who are driven by the player's "will."

 

By the way... take a look at the previously linked post - the same debate was already taking place there 10 years ago.

😇

 

[RedHeadAngel]

I read that the Vestige has defeated multiple Daedric lords, including Molag Bal, Nocturnal, Dagon, and Vaermina, which no other ES protagonist has done.

 

[RedHeadAngel]

42 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

By the way... take a look at the previously linked post - the same debate was already taking place there 10 years ago.

😇

And?

[NymphoElf]

@Miauzi If nothing else, the answer is highly circumstantial. Assuming everyone has "infinite" time to prepare, my money is still on TLD based on my previous statements.

 

1 hour ago, RavenOryon said:

While the last dragonborn did subdue Alduin, he did not actually kill him

 

Where is that confirmed? The entire game is about you killing Alduin, who might I add is called the Twilight God. Therefore, by definition, TLD also kills a god.

 

So where's the line here? Everyone in question is, on some level, a "God Slayer". We're getting to the point that we're arguing in circles.

[Algarinor]

If i repose myself on the power level that a character of a TES game can achieve, then this is Nerevar. The only one that can create a spell with the effect of a nuclear weapon "inflic 999deg of fire + ice + poison on 9999999 feets during 9999999 seconds" :D.

[Miauzi]

The "Hero of Kvatch," aka Daedra Lord Sheogorad, summons the "Dragonborn" to report to the Blue Palace of Solitude – and dismisses them AFTER completing three typically pointless tasks... that should clearly reflect the actual balance of power.

 

And if you really anger the Lord of Madness – then you don't have much to say even as the "mortal aspect" of a god.

 

For this reason alone, comparing any kind of "combat power" is a completely pointless question – since it simply ignores the entire "theological superstructure" of this universe.

[woodsman30]

I have to go with the last Dragonborn for many reasons first I do not think the Dragonborn is that. I think they are Akatoshl or what ever lore name you with to use or at the very least a part of them an Avatar.  The Dragonborn travels freely to realms that mortals cannot while defeating beings who are immortal. Reads Elder scrolls with no harmful effects  can wield power the first Dragonborn could only dream about.

[Miauzi]

Vor 17 Minuten sagte woodsman30:

Ich muss mich aus vielen Gründen für den letzten Drachengeborenen entscheiden. Erstens glaube ich nicht, dass der Drachengeborene das ist. Ich denke, es handelt sich um Akatoshl oder welchen legendären Namen auch immer man verwenden kann, oder zumindest einen Teil davon, einen Avatar. Der Drachengeborene reist frei in Reiche, die Sterblichen verschlossen bleiben, und besiegt dabei unsterbliche Wesen. Er liest Elder Scrolls ohne schädliche Auswirkungen und kann Kräfte ausüben, von denen der erste Drachengeborene nur träumen konnte.

 

not quite right - the term "Shezarrine" is more accurate - and that goes back to another "god" -> Lorkhan

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Shezarrine

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Lorkhan

 

 

[NymphoElf]

8 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Shezarrine

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/de/wiki/Lorkhan

 Fandom Wikis are notoriously unreliable and/or incomplete.

 

Use uesp.net for Elder Scrolls info instead

Edited May 20, 2025 by NymphoElf

[Miauzi]

Vor 1 Stunde sagte NymphoElf:

 Fandom -Wikis sind notorisch unzuverlässig und/oder unvollständig.

 

Verwenden Sie stattdessen uesp.net für Informationen zu Elder Scrolls

 

Now - do the authors of this (also well-known) site write something fundamentally different?

 

[RavenOryon]

9 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

@Miauzi If nothing else, the answer is highly circumstantial. Assuming everyone has "infinite" time to prepare, my money is still on TLD based on my previous statements.

 

 

Where is that confirmed? The entire game is about you killing Alduin, who might I add is called the Twilight God. Therefore, by definition, TLD also kills a god.

 

So where's the line here? Everyone in question is, on some level, a "God Slayer". We're getting to the point that we're arguing in circles.

It's stated with in game dialogue. Not to mention TLDB didn't absorb Alduin's soul (as Alduin is essentially immortal and different than the rest of the dragons) and like the Vestage he had help to do it.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Epilogue_(Skyrim)   I did this quest quite recently and the dialogue they list is spot on.

But while this sort of thing is a fun thought experiment only Todd knows the truth. Certainly not arguing however, you're free to have your thoughts on who's more powerful as am I.  Have a rockin' day

Edited May 21, 2025 by RavenOryon
Context added

[NymphoElf]

4 hours ago, Miauzi said:

do the authors of this (also well-known) site write something fundamentally different?

 

UESP's accuracy is generally more reliable. They also tend to provide more/better context and backstory compared to Fandom's wiki.

 

For example, the Shezarrine page on Fandom is specifically noted to have a lot of speculative information and is therefore unreliable.

[NymphoElf]

15 minutes ago, RavenOryon said:

TLDB didn't absorb Alduin's soul (as Alduin is essentially immortal and different than the rest of the dragons)

 

All dragons are effectively immortal. That's why Paarthurnax is still alive thousands of years after the Merethic Era.

 

Alduin's Soul, if he is indeed an Aspect of Akatosh, is not his own. It is Akatosh's soul, and TLD can't absorb non-Dragon souls. Or at least not a deity's soul.

 

Additionally, none of the dialogue you mentioned disproves that Alduin was killed.

 

All of these terms or phrases can be used in place of "kill" or "death", and when someone is killed (particularly in combat) are inherently inclusive:

• Doom
• Is no more
• Defeated
• Destroy

The only line that potentially supports your claim is the following:
 

Quote

Is Alduin really dead? I didn't absorb his soul when he died. "Perhaps, perhaps not. Dragons are not like normal mortal creatures, and Alduin is unique even among dragonkind. He may be permitted to return at the end of time to fulfill his destiny as the World-Eater. But that is for the gods to decide. You have done your part."

 

This still doesn't mean Alduin didn't die. Just like how Alduin resurrected the other dragons (as long as their soul was not absorbed), Akatosh can just as easily resurrect Adluin. Resurrection by definition requires someone/something to be dead first, otherwise it's not resurrection.

Edited May 21, 2025 by NymphoElf

[Miauzi]

Vor 32 Minuten sagte NymphoElf:

 

Die Genauigkeit von UESP ist im Allgemeinen zuverlässiger. Sie bieten im Vergleich zum Fandom-Wiki tendenziell auch mehr/besseren Kontext und Hintergrundgeschichte.

 

Beispielsweise wird ausdrücklich darauf hingewiesen, dass die Shezarrine-Seite auf Fandom viele spekulative Informationen enthält und daher unzuverlässig ist.

 

Is there even any "official" information – a group of people primarily responsible for the TES universe... and no – I don't mean Todd Howard... who doesn't even know how to spell "lore" correctly!

 

In the world of "Lord of the Rings," there is a complete and comprehensively formulated "creation myth" -> in book form – for you to read.

 

We simply don't have anything comparable for the TES world – which is why you can get bogged down in endless debates here... without reaching a satisfactory conclusion.

 

On the other hand, such vaguely formulated worlds also make it possible to accommodate your own "products" – whether it's extensive mods like "Maids 2" or "Unslaad" or "VIGILANT" or various blog stories.

 

But what exactly does "uesp" say about the assumptions that the various heroes of the individual games are -> mortal avatars of various Adera/Daedra?

[RedHeadAngel]

20 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

Is there even any "official" information – a group of people primarily responsible for the TES universe... and no – I don't mean Todd Howard... who doesn't even know how to spell "lore" correctly!

 

In the world of "Lord of the Rings," there is a complete and comprehensively formulated "creation myth" -> in book form – for you to read.

 

We simply don't have anything comparable for the TES world – which is why you can get bogged down in endless debates here... without reaching a satisfactory conclusion.

 

On the other hand, such vaguely formulated worlds also make it possible to accommodate your own "products" – whether it's extensive mods like "Maids 2" or "Unslaad" or "VIGILANT" or various blog stories.

 

But what exactly does "uesp" say about the assumptions that the various heroes of the individual games are -> mortal avatars of various Adera/Daedra?

It doesn't matter if the DB killed Alduin. What matters is that they defeated him. Did the Nerevarine kill Hircine? No. Did the CoC kill Sheogorath? No. Did the Vestige kill Molag Bal? No. Therefore, it's irrelevant.

1 hour ago, NymphoElf said:

 

All dragons are effectively immortal. That's why Paarthurnax is still alive thousands of years after the Merethic Era.

 

Alduin's Soul, if he is indeed an Aspect of Akatosh, is not his own. It is Akatosh's soul, and TLD can't absorb non-Dragon souls. Or at least not a deity's soul.

 

Additionally, none of the dialogue you mentioned disproves that Alduin was killed.

 

All of these terms or phrases can be used in place of "kill" or "death", and when someone is killed (particularly in combat) are inherently inclusive:

• Doom
• Is no more
• Defeated
• Destroy

The only line that potentially supports your claim is the following:
 

 

This still doesn't mean Alduin didn't die. Just like how Alduin resurrected the other dragons (as long as their soul was not absorbed), Akatosh can just as easily resurrect Adluin. Resurrection by definition requires someone/something to be dead first, otherwise it's not resurrection.

There is something I want to point out about how the DB defeated Alduin. They only succeeded because they had a shout made explicitly for taking Alduin down. Also, they had the help of the Heroes of Sovengarde, who had created the shout. The Dragonrend shout would be useless for facing off against the others.

[RedHeadAngel]

10 hours ago, Algarinor said:

If i repose myself on the power level that a character of a TES game can achieve, then this is Nerevar. The only one that can create a spell with the effect of a nuclear weapon "inflic 999deg of fire + ice + poison on 9999999 feets during 9999999 seconds" :D.

I updated that so they can only be at 100 like the others. 

[NymphoElf]

8 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

There is something I want to point out about how the DB defeated Alduin. They only succeeded because they had a shout made explicitly for taking Alduin down. Also, they had the help of the Heroes of Sovengarde, who had created the shout. The Dragonrend shout would be useless for facing off against the others

 

The shout is useful against ALL dragons. It's also a shout made by man instead of dragons with concepts dragons cannot comprehend: mortality.

 

If anything this only further proves how strong and versatile the Thuum is. TLD can create a shout to hurt or weaken anyone.

Edited May 21, 2025 by NymphoElf

[NymphoElf]

9 hours ago, Miauzi said:

Is there even any "official" information

Yes. The games are canon unless later games say otherwise, and like it or not Todd Howard and other ES employees and creators have final say on lore until a game releases that covers a certain topic. Just because you don't like what the creator says about lore doesn't make THE CREATOR wrong 

[RedHeadAngel]

55 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

 

The shout is useful against ALL dragons. It's also a shout made by man instead of dragons with concepts dragons cannot comprehend: mortality.

 

If anything this only further proves how strong and versatile the Thuum is. TLD can create a shout to hurt or weaken anyone.

My point is that the DB’s most powerful weapon against Alduin, which was a key part of their victory, is useless in a fight against the other protagonists because they’re not dragons. Also, only shouts that appear in the game are allowed.

55 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

Yes. The games are canon unless later games say otherwise, and like it or not Todd Howard and other ES employees and creators have final say on lore until a game releases that covers a certain topic. Just because you don't like what the creator says about lore doesn't make THE CREATOR wrong 

Please do not argue with this guy. I know the type. He’s clearly not going to get the point, and will drag this out until the end of time.

[NymphoElf]

10 hours ago, Miauzi said:

But what exactly does "uesp" say about the assumptions that the various heroes of the individual games are -> mortal avatars of various Adera/Daedra?

 

[ES 2: Daggerfall] The Agent is simply a Blade

 

[ES 3: Morrowind] The Nrevarrine is the ALLEGED reincarnation of Indoril Nerevar.

 

[ES 4: Oblivion] The Hero of Kvatch (Champion of Cyrodiil) did mantle Sheogorath after DEFEATING Jyggalag and broke the cycle upon the two daedric princes.

 

[ES 5: Skyrim] TLD's official lore has not been fully solidified since ES 6 is not yet released. However, we CAN assume the main quest of the Main Game is canon (TLD kills Alduin), and likely the events of the DLCs as well. Everything else (Civil War, Faction Quests, etc) has not been officially decided yet.

 

Think of each game as a pseudo Dragonbreak until the next game releases. Our current Dragonbreak has not yet resolved.

[NymphoElf]

1 minute ago, RedHeadAngel said:

Please do not argue with this guy. I know the type. He’s clearly not going to get the point, and will drag this out until the end of time.

Fair enough

 

1 minute ago, RedHeadAngel said:

My point is that the DB’s most powerful weapon against Alduin, which was a key part of their victory, is useless in a fight against the other protagonists because they’re not dragons. Also, only shouts that appear in the game are allowed.

Forgot about that last part.

 

It's almost impossible to make this scenario "fair" due to how different each game is and the bonkers power scale of TES. Gods are effectively coming and going every other week.