NPC Comment on the Apperance of Another NPC (NEW MOD!)

[Jenova23]

Hi, I'm trying to create a mod that allows NPCs to comment on the apperance of another NPCs or follower based on there faction or tags. However, I am struggling to understand how to use "and" or "or" conditions properly as I cannot understand the creation kit wiki page, so if anyone could dumb it down that would greatly be apprecaited.. I also do not know if my conditions and alias's are correct or if they will work as it is not filled when using the sqv command, pictures are included in the spolier.

 

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 28, 2024 by Jenova23

[Qviddhartha]

To read your condition, see each "AND" as separating blocks of conditions. Multiple successive ANDs indicate successive blocks of one condition each. The "OR" flag just says that the current block continues... until the next "AND".

Each block evaluates to true if any one of its members is true. The condition as a whole is true if all its blocks are true.

Looks to me like your conditions are encoded in a credible manner.

One very common, and natural, misconception is that alias fills are retried until they succeed. They are only attempted once when the quest starts. If at the time the quest is started the condition fails, the alias remains unfilled until you stop the quest and attempt a new start. If the alias that fails is not flagged "optional", the quest start will fail. You still need to start it again to make a 2nd run at filling the aliases. Edited May 28, 2024 by pfB6cs

[Jenova23]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:57 PM, pfB6cs said:

To read your condition, see each "AND" as separating blocks of conditions. Multiple successive ANDs indicate successive blocks of one condition each. The "OR" flag just says that the current block continues... until the next "AND".

Each block evaluates to true if any one of its members is true. The condition as a whole is true if all its blocks are true.

Looks to me like your conditions are encoded in a credible manner.

One very common, and natural, misconception is that alias fills are retried until they succeed. They are only attempted once when the quest starts. If at the time the quest is started the condition fails, the alias remains unfilled until you stop the quest and attempt a new start. If the alias that fails is not flagged "optional", the quest start will fail. You still need to start it again to make a 2nd run at filling the aliases.

So, I  check and it seems I followed your instructions, but unfortunately I'm at a stand still as the npc still aren't saying anything. I am uncertain if there is a method to test it other than wandering around and waiting for an NPC to say something. Do npc with comments work differently with idels or do you simply just wait for them to speak the line?

Edited May 30, 2024 by Jenova23

[Qviddhartha]

I am confused by your question. I am unsure how you have things setup and what you are expecting to achieve.
How do you start your quest? Does sqv show it running in game?
How do you start your dialogue line? What type of dialogue branch/topic are you using?

[Gristle]

4 hours ago, Jenova23 said:

So, I  check and it seems I followed your instructions, but unfortunately I'm at a stand still as the npc still aren't saying anything. I am uncertain if there is a method to test it other than wandering around and waiting for an NPC to say something. Do npc with comments work differently with idels or do you simply just wait for them to speak the line?

I have a few comments:

• You don't need any alias for the talking NPC - just use subject (S). You can get all the info you need with non-alias conditions, like GetIsSex, GetInFaction, GetIsRace, etc. using the subject (S).
• No need for all the guard factions - just use the "IsGuard" condition on the speaker (S).
• Assuming these are supposed to be mixed in with the other vanilla random "Idle" or "Hello" comments, you'll want to check the "Random" box.
• I don't think you can use the "T" (target) to identify another NPC. I believe the "target" of Idle and Hello comments is always the PC.
• Aliases only fill on quest start (unless you force fill them with a specific reference), so I'm not sure how this quest will deal with new NPCs in new locations. So, the trick here is going to be identifying the NPCs to be the target of the comments. Using an alias makes sense for followers. For example, you could have a line of player dialogue given to followers (i.e., NPCs in the follower faction) that puts them into an alias, and then other NPCs can detect the presence of that alias using the GetDistance and/or GetInLOS (or whatever the line of sight condition is). Also, you'll need to create a separate alias for each follower if the mod will support multiple followers. But, I don't know how you're going to automatically put every other NPC in every new cell into an alias to be a potential target for NPC Idle comments. 
• You'll likely need to add a 'PlayableRace' condition at some point to keep dogs and mod animals from using the dialogue. (Edit: I guess you're using voice types for that, but there would be fewer conditions to use the PlayableRace condition 'OR'ed with the Old voice types.)
• I'm not sure why, but guards deliver random Idle and Hello dialogue a lot less frequently than other NPCs. Not a huge problem, but something to be aware of.
• Finally, because this quest will presumably be start game enabled, you'll need to generate a SEQ file for it to work.

Edited May 30, 2024 by Gristle

[Jenova23]

14 hours ago, Gristle said:

I have a few comments:

• You don't need any alias for the talking NPC - just use subject (S). You can get all the info you need with non-alias conditions, like GetIsSex, GetInFaction, GetIsRace, etc. using the subject (S).
• No need for all the guard factions - just use the "IsGuard" condition on the speaker (S).
• Assuming these are supposed to be mixed in with the other vanilla random "Idle" or "Hello" comments, you'll want to check the "Random" box.
• I don't think you can use the "T" (target) to identify another NPC. I believe the "target" of Idle and Hello comments is always the PC.
• Aliases only fill on quest start (unless you force fill them with a specific reference), so I'm not sure how this quest will deal with new NPCs in new locations. So, the trick here is going to be identifying the NPCs to be the target of the comments. Using an alias makes sense for followers. For example, you could have a line of player dialogue given to followers (i.e., NPCs in the follower faction) that puts them into an alias, and then other NPCs can detect the presence of that alias using the GetDistance and/or GetInLOS (or whatever the line of sight condition is). Also, you'll need to create a separate alias for each follower if the mod will support multiple followers. But, I don't know how you're going to automatically put every other NPC in every new cell into an alias to be a potential target for NPC Idle comments. 
• You'll likely need to add a 'PlayableRace' condition at some point to keep dogs and mod animals from using the dialogue. (Edit: I guess you're using voice types for that, but there would be fewer conditions to use the PlayableRace condition 'OR'ed with the Old voice types.)
• I'm not sure why, but guards deliver random Idle and Hello dialogue a lot less frequently than other NPCs. Not a huge problem, but something to be aware of.
• Finally, because this quest will presumably be start game enabled, you'll need to generate a SEQ file for it to work.

Will selecting "random" result in delays in the progression of the lines? I want the NPC to immediately remark on the appearance of another NPC, taking into account their faction, which will then reset after the allotted time.. The faction determines various attributes like body type, facial features and clothing so I don't  really want to include each follower individually as the goal is to attach factions to each npc in game and have other npc comment on the apperance of every female npc in game. Is it also necessary to start a new game every time you make changes to the conditions in order to test to see if it's working or can I simply edit it load up an old save and test it out? And, of course, thank you for your assistance.

 

I'm using factions from the mod listed bellow, which provides a comprehensive list of all the factions in the spoiler. However, I am currently using osl aroused. I have also come across information stating that the only way to use find matching reference is by initiating it with another quest, although I am unsure of how to properly set this up.

 

Sexlab Aroused Extended.

Edited May 30, 2024 by Jenova23

[Qviddhartha]

The "random" flag does not add delay.
You can save, update conditions, and load. It may take a second or two for the new conditions be become active. No need for a new game.

Dialogues in the "Misc dialogue" tab of the quest, with branch types of "Hello" and "Idle" get used automatically by the game (if your quest is active, the hello and/or idle conditions apply and your dialogue conditions are true), so do many other types of dialogue in that same tab.

Turning on the "random" flag in this misc dialogues will put your lines in competition with other valid lines. Not turning it on may reduce the competition, or not, depending on what other quests propose valid lines and their relative priorities.

Note that hello topics are said only once when actors "1st meet". You may need to fast travel away and back to force it to reset. If your hello topic is in competition with other valid hellos, you may have to do that multiple times to see your dialogue.

For more intricate conditions (and better control), you have options with the StoryManager events, or using scripts to periodically start/stop quests and scenes that enact your dialogue.

[Gristle]

11 hours ago, Jenova23 said:

Will selecting "random" result in delays in the progression of the lines? I want the NPC to immediately remark on the appearance of another NPC, taking into account their faction, which will then reset after the allotted time..

Yes. As pfB6cs notes, making Idle or Hello comments "random" puts them in the bucket of random comments that the game engine draws from. These include vanilla random comments (think "arrow in the knee") as well as mod-added random comments (if any).  As pfB6cs also notes, turning off the "random" flag still does not guarantee they will be immediately spoken, as they will still be in competition with dialogue from other quests/events, in which case setting their "priority" higher will help, but still will not guarantee they will be immediately spoken.

 

Also, you're going to want some randomness. For example, if a NPC is cum-covered, has big boobs and is wearing a bikini, I assume the comment will be on only one of those things.

11 hours ago, Jenova23 said:

The faction determines various attributes like body type, facial features and clothing so I don't  really want to include each follower individually as the goal is to attach factions to each npc in game and have other npc comment on the apperance of every female npc in game.

That's fine to put all the NPCs in factions (I assume you will do that manually). The trick is recognizing NPCs who are neither the speaker or target of Idle and Hello comments. To the best of my knowledge, using Idle and Hello comments, you can't use a third person (i.e., one who is neither the speaker or the PC) to condition the dialogue, unless you do one of two things: (1) Use conditions like GetInCell, GetDistance and/or GetInLOS to determine if a specific NPC reference ID is nearby, or (2) use the same conditions to determine if a specific alias is nearby.  The first option isn't going to work unless you are willing to write comments for every NPC. The second option would work if you can write a script to put people into 'nearby comment target' aliases, perhaps when the PC enters a new location?

 

Also, it would be best if the Idle or Hello comment had a script fragment attached that started a 'scene'. In fact, the Idle comment could be an empty comment whose only purpose is to start a scene. The nice thing about scenes is you can make the speaker headtrack anyone in the scene. If you just rely on the Idle and Hello dialogue, the speaker will always be looking at the PC, which ruins the immersion a bit and is confusing (because it looks like the comment is being made to the PC).

 

Idle and Hello comments are great because they are easy to make, bullet proof in terms of stability, offer tons of great conditions, and require no programming. But, they do have some limitations, particularly when you try to bring in a third party.

11 hours ago, Jenova23 said:

Is it also necessary to start a new game every time you make changes to the conditions in order to test to see if it's working or can I simply edit it load up an old save and test it out? And, of course, thank you for your assistance.

Yes, per pfB6cs's advice, this is a great thing about dialogue mods. You can change stuff (dialogue, conditions, even script fragments attached to dialogue) all you want, change it mid game, and it all works fine. But... dialogue quests are usually 'start game enabled' which means you must generate an SEQ file for them or they won't start. SSEEdit has an option (under "Other" I think) to generate them.

11 hours ago, Jenova23 said:

I'm using factions from the mod listed bellow, which provides a comprehensive list of all the factions in the spoiler. However, I am currently using osl aroused. I have also come across information stating that the only way to use find matching reference is by initiating it with another quest, although I am unsure of how to properly set this up.

 

Sexlab Aroused Extended.

The factions look interesting, and I see how they could be used, but they seem to raise some issues. Some are 'invisible' traits that NPCs couldn't observe. I guess you can just ignore those. Others seem overly detailed, but I guess again you can just use the ones you want. 

Edited May 31, 2024 by Gristle

[Qviddhartha]

Ok, here's a possible solution for forcing a greeting of two NPCs identified from conditions of your choice.

Setup a quest, started from "Actor Hello Event", untick "Run Once".

Setup two aliases, named "greeter" and "greeted", "From Event", selecting "Actor 1" and "Actor 2" respectively.
Add conditions to your liking.

Go into the StoryManager ("SM Event Node", hidden in the CK's left pane "Character" section).
In the "Actor Hello Event" section, on the 1st entry at the top, Right-click to create a "Quest node".
Select the new node with your mouse, give it a name. Add your quest to the node.

Create a scene within the quest, add your two aliases as actors, have them behave and dialogue to your liking.
Mark the scene "Begin on quest start" and "Stop quest on end".

Test it in game!

[Jenova23]

3 hours ago, pfB6cs said:

Ok, here's a possible solution for forcing a greeting of two NPCs identified from conditions of your choice.

Setup a quest, started from "Actor Hello Event", untick "Run Once".

Setup two aliases, named "greeter" and "greeted", "From Event", selecting "Actor 1" and "Actor 2" respectively.
Add conditions to your liking.

Go into the StoryManager ("SM Event Node", hidden in the CK's left pane "Character" section).
In the "Actor Hello Event" section, on the 1st entry at the top, Right-click to create a "Quest node".
Select the new node with your mouse, give it a name. Add your quest to the node.

Create a scene within the quest, add your two aliases as actors, have them behave and dialogue to your liking.
Mark the scene "Begin on quest start" and "Stop quest on end".

Test it in game!

Would I then need to create a quest for every line of dialogue or can I add a condition to direct it in the story manager to a specific scene? Will it automatically pick the correct scene depeding on the conditions of each seperate alias? I'm not sure if the order matters when creating a scene for example does it check the conditions of the first actor in the list before moving onto the second actor or does the scene just automatically play?

Edited May 31, 2024 by Jenova23

[Qviddhartha]

For fancier stuff, you typically use different quests, or scripts.

Scenes with "Begin on quest start" will all try to start at the same time. If you have multiple scenes, you will need some scripting to select one and start it explicitly when the quest starts.

You can also have complex alias fill strategies, with many aliases for different cases, each with its own scenes, all in the same quest. However, more complexity, more scripting, more debugging. Keeping things simple, especially at first, is better. So I recommend you take it initially that each scene should have its own quest, as I described. When you have a better feel for how it works, you can start thinking about merging similarly structured dialogues together (to share aliases, dialogue lines, etc). If you go with multiple scenes in the same quest, I will have tips on handling the required scripting, keeping it simple and straightforward.

There is also much you can do with a single quest, single scene, and multiple conditional phases within the scene... or even with a single quest, scene and phase, and a variety of conditional dialogue lines...

In the method I described, the quest start will be attempted by the StoryManager when any two NPCs cross pathes for the 1st time after the player being away. It is the alias conditions that will decide if the quest actually starts or not. If you have multiple such quests, a better strategy is to put the conditions in the SM Node instead of the aliases, so that it selects the right quest and avoids the overhead of attempting the quest start altogether when the conditions don't match. You can have only one instance of a given quest or scene running at the same time; you might loose "Actor Hello Events" if you attempt quest starts with invalid actors since the quest will be busy while the more relevant events are processed by the StoryManager.

I also should have mentioned turning on the "Shares event" flag on your quest node. Without it, when your quest start fails (because alias conditions don't match), the event is eaten and no other quest starts will be attempted by the StoryManager.

[JobiWanUK]

GetIsVoiceType works with FormLists, the way I do it instead of Voice1 OR Voice 2 etc is put all the relevant voices in a FormList, say JB1VoicesFL then use GetIsVoiceType = JB1VoicesFL

 

For guards I use the vanilla FormList GuardVoiceTypes with IsInFaction = GuardDialogueFaction.

 

You can fill the aliases this way too.

Edited May 31, 2024 by JobiWanUK

[Jenova23]

16 hours ago, Gristle said:

Yes. As pfB6cs notes, making Idle or Hello comments "random" puts them in the bucket of random comments that the game engine draws from. These include vanilla random comments (think "arrow in the knee") as well as mod-added random comments (if any).  As pfB6cs also notes, turning off the "random" flag still does not guarantee they will be immediately spoken, as they will still be in competition with dialogue from other quests/events, in which case setting their "priority" higher will help, but still will not guarantee they will be immediately spoken.

 

Also, you're going to want some randomness. For example, if a NPC is cum-covered, has big boobs and is wearing a bikini, I assume the comment will be on only one of those things.

That's fine to put all the NPCs in factions (I assume you will do that manually). The trick is recognizing NPCs who are neither the speaker or target of Idle and Hello comments. To the best of my knowledge, using Idle and Hello comments, you can't use a third person (i.e., one who is neither the speaker or the PC) to condition the dialogue, unless you do one of two things: (1) Use conditions like GetInCell, GetDistance and/or GetInLOS to determine if a specific NPC reference ID is nearby, or (2) use the same conditions to determine if a specific alias is nearby.  The first option isn't going to work unless you are willing to write comments for every NPC. The second option would work if you can write a script to put people into 'nearby comment target' aliases, perhaps when the PC enters a new location?

 

Also, it would be best if the Idle or Hello comment had a script fragment attached that started a 'scene'. In fact, the Idle comment could be an empty comment whose only purpose is to start a scene. The nice thing about scenes is you can make the speaker headtrack anyone in the scene. If you just rely on the Idle and Hello dialogue, the speaker will always be looking at the PC, which ruins the immersion a bit and is confusing (because it looks like the comment is being made to the PC).

 

Idle and Hello comments are great because they are easy to make, bullet proof in terms of stability, offer tons of great conditions, and require no programming. But, they do have some limitations, particularly when you try to bring in a third party.

Yes, per pfB6cs's advice, this is a great thing about dialogue mods. You can change stuff (dialogue, conditions, even script fragments attached to dialogue) all you want, change it mid game, and it all works fine. But... dialogue quests are usually 'start game enabled' which means you must generate an SEQ file for them or they won't start. SSEEdit has an option (under "Other" I think) to generate them.

The factions look interesting, and I see how they could be used, but they seem to raise some issues. Some are 'invisible' traits that NPCs couldn't observe. I guess you can just ignore those. Others seem overly detailed, but I guess again you can just use the ones you want. 

How do you know which ones are invisible traits?

[Jenova23]

6 hours ago, pfB6cs said:

For fancier stuff, you typically use different quests, or scripts.

Scenes with "Begin on quest start" will all try to start at the same time. If you have multiple scenes, you will need some scripting to select one and start it explicitly when the quest starts.

You can also have complex alias fill strategies, with many aliases for different cases, each with its own scenes, all in the same quest. However, more complexity, more scripting, more debugging. Keeping things simple, especially at first, is better. So I recommend you take it initially that each scene should have its own quest, as I described. When you have a better feel for how it works, you can start thinking about merging similarly structured dialogues together (to share aliases, dialogue lines, etc). If you go with multiple scenes in the same quest, I will have tips on handling the required scripting, keeping it simple and straightforward.

There is also much you can do with a single quest, single scene, and multiple conditional phases within the scene... or even with a single quest, scene and phase, and a variety of conditional dialogue lines...

In the method I described, the quest start will be attempted by the StoryManager when any two NPCs cross pathes for the 1st time after the player being away. It is the alias conditions that will decide if the quest actually starts or not. If you have multiple such quests, a better strategy is to put the conditions in the SM Node instead of the aliases, so that it selects the right quest and avoids the overhead of attempting the quest start altogether when the conditions don't match. You can have only one instance of a given quest or scene running at the same time; you might loose "Actor Hello Events" if you attempt quest starts with invalid actors since the quest will be busy while the more relevant events are processed by the StoryManager.

I also should have mentioned turning on the "Shares event" flag on your quest node. Without it, when your quest start fails (because alias conditions don't match), the event is eaten and no other quest starts will be attempted by the StoryManager.

I'm also having issues with the scene playing no matter what condition I use, for example I have two seperate quests yet both of the scenes play regardless of the conditions I set.

 

Quest 1

Spoiler

 

 

Quest 2

Spoiler

 

Edited May 31, 2024 by Jenova23

[Jenova23]

4 hours ago, JobiWanUK said:

GetIsVoiceType works with FormLists, the way I do it instead of Voice1 OR Voice 2 etc is put all the relevant voices in a FormList, say JB1VoicesFL then use GetIsVoiceType = JB1VoicesFL

 

For guards I use the vanilla FormList GuardVoiceTypes with IsInFaction = GuardDialogueFaction.

 

You can fill the aliases this way too.

 

4 hours ago, JobiWanUK said:

GetIsVoiceType works with FormLists, the way I do it instead of Voice1 OR Voice 2 etc is put all the relevant voices in a FormList, say JB1VoicesFL then use GetIsVoiceType = JB1VoicesFL

 

For guards I use the vanilla FormList GuardVoiceTypes with IsInFaction = GuardDialogueFaction.

 

You can fill the aliases this way too.

Thank you, I'll give that a try, although I am uncertain about the condition isinfaction, since I have not seen that as an option. Altough, I have been using getinfaction.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Jenova23

[JobiWanUK]

6 minutes ago, Jenova23 said:

 

Thank you, I'll give that a try, although I am uncertain about the condition isinfaction, since I have not seen that as an option. Altough, I have been using getinfaction.

 

Yeah my bad, GetInFaction is correct.

[Qviddhartha]

In this case, you want the quest start to fail if the conditions don't match. Therefore, untick the "optional" flag.

With the optional flag on, the quest will start, and run its "Begin on quest start" scenes, despite the missing actors. The scene will run, doing its best but ignoring what you asked that relates to the missing actors/unfilled aliases.

You will also want to untick the "Allow Reserved" flag, and turn on he "Reserves Reference" flag. This will prevent both quests scheduling the same actor at the same time. As a side effect, unchecking "Allow Reserved" will make reserved actors unavailable to your quests/scenes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since these actors may already be scheduled for important behavior in the contexte of other ongoing quests.

If you want to run your scenes on "reserved" actors, you can use keywords to make your quests mutually exclusive. Create a new keyword, add it in the keyword section of each of your aliases, and add a condition "subject.hasKeyword myNewKW == 0" to each alias.

[Gristle]

3 hours ago, Jenova23 said:

How do you know which ones are invisible traits?

I just meant traits that are not visible to another NPC, meaning things that are based on reputation rather than physical attributes. For example, a "BoobsBig" comment is a comment on a visible physical attribute and would make sense coming from any NPC, but a reputation-based trait, like "Sadist" or "SprigganLover" is different. It might make sense between two NPCs living in the same town (who know the reputation of other NPCs in town), but would make less sense between a follower and a local NPC or vice versa (because they don't know each other).  Along the same lines, some physical traits aren't necessarily visible. For example, a "CockBig" comment might not be appropriate if the target NPC was wearing clothing or armor.

[Jenova23]

On 5/31/2024 at 1:06 PM, pfB6cs said:

In this case, you want the quest start to fail if the conditions don't match. Therefore, untick the "optional" flag.

With the optional flag on, the quest will start, and run its "Begin on quest start" scenes, despite the missing actors. The scene will run, doing its best but ignoring what you asked that relates to the missing actors/unfilled aliases.

You will also want to untick the "Allow Reserved" flag, and turn on he "Reserves Reference" flag. This will prevent both quests scheduling the same actor at the same time. As a side effect, unchecking "Allow Reserved" will make reserved actors unavailable to your quests/scenes, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since these actors may already be scheduled for important behavior in the contexte of other ongoing quests.

If you want to run your scenes on "reserved" actors, you can use keywords to make your quests mutually exclusive. Create a new keyword, add it in the keyword section of each of your aliases, and add a condition "subject.hasKeyword myNewKW == 0" to each alias.

Does  actor hello events also function for individual NPCs? I have observed that when I use the "getisid" condition with Camilla or Lucan in Riverwood, nothing occurs regardless of how long I wait. This is on a new game so I'm not sure if this has anything to do with there quest?

Edited June 2, 2024 by Jenova23

[Qviddhartha]

Camilla and Lucan are probably "reserved" until you return the dragon claw. There are plenty of NPCs that are "reserved" by various vanilla quests. If you want to catch them as well, you have to "allow reserved".

[Jenova23]

 

55 minutes ago, pfB6cs said:

Camilla and Lucan are probably "reserved" until you return the dragon claw. There are plenty of NPCs that are "reserved" by various vanilla quests. If you want to catch them as well, you have to "allow reserved".

I clicked allow reserve on all of my aliases, as it appears to work better versues checking reserves reference. However, the scene does not tart when I use getisid. Although, I have only tested this with Lucan and Camilla so far. Additionally, I am uncertain if Lucan's conditions will function, as I want him to only deliver the line if Camilla is still alive. Previously, I used the condition "getdead," but that also did not work.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by Jenova23

[Qviddhartha]

Looks like both aliases are using "Actor 1", with conflicting conditions. They therefore cannot both fill... that is, at least one will fail, and since neither is "optional", the quest will fail to start.

Change one of them to "Actor 2" and all should be well. You should change the one that moves the least, since "Actor 1" can only be filled by a moving NPC. I would therefore change Lucan to "Actor 2".

When you 1st meet them, they are likely in a scene. You'll need to wait for them to finish their intro dialogue before having a chance to snag them.

[Jenova23]

7 minutes ago, pfB6cs said:

Looks like both aliases are using "Actor 1", with conflicting conditions. They therefore cannot both fill... that is, at least one will fail, and since neither is "optional", the quest will fail to start.

Change one of them to "Actor 2" and all should be well. You should change the one that moves the least, since "Actor 1" can only be filled by a moving NPC. I would therefore change Lucan to "Actor 2".

When you 1st meet them, they are likely in a scene. You'll need to wait for them to finish their intro dialogue before having a chance to snag them.

Oh no, sorry that was just to show you the alias's for two seperate quests. It was working all along, I just needed to retrieve the golden claw first.