Do multiple mods changing same thing all count towards Reference Cap?

[Mookeylama]

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ag4wm7/psa_the_reference_handle_cap_or_diagnosing_one_of/

 

as per that^ i know that a mod changing even a master will count towards ref cap, but say if 8 patches change the same, i dunno, shelf...will all 8 changes add 8 to the reference count? that'd suk lol

 

[Fiend71]

Good question.

I've never run into that.  I mean why have multiple changes to any one item?

 

That said, I see where you're coming from.  Interested if anyone knows...

[Roggvir]

9 hours ago, Mookeylama said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ag4wm7/psa_the_reference_handle_cap_or_diagnosing_one_of/

 

as per that^ i know that a mod changing even a master will count towards ref cap, but say if 8 patches change the same, i dunno, shelf...will all 8 changes add 8 to the reference count? that'd suk lol

 

Interesting.

 

This is news to me, but how i understand it - No.
If you have 8 patches, each changing one and the same reference, all those 8 patches will result in adding only 1 reference towards the cap, and even that only applies if the change results in creating a new temporary reference (either by turning a previously persistent ref from a master into a temporary one, or by adding a brand new thing - whether marked as persistent or temporary).
 

 

Let's say you have a plugin that does nothing, except it adds a piece of bread into an existing cell:

• If the plugin is NOT a master, but a regular plugin, then regardless of whether the piece of bread is marked as a persistent or temporary ref, it will add 1 towards the max reference cap at all times, because in this situation, that piece of bread gets loaded at all times, no matter what, before the main menu is even loaded.
   
• If the plugin is a master, and the piece of bread is marked as persistent reference, then it will add 1 towards the max reference count at all times, because this persistent bread reference gets loaded at all times, no matter what.
   
• If the plugin is a master, and the piece of bread is marked as temporary reference, then it will add 1 towards the max reference count ONLY when it gets loaded, which in case of temporary refs from a master plugin happens only when loading the cell containing that reference.

 

But no matter what the plugin type is, and what the reference type is, you can have 100 plugins each overriding that piece of bread position in the cell, and it will not add 100 more ref counts towards the cap - that piece of bread is still just one reference, no matter how many plugins override that record.
At most, 100 plugins overriding that record may only increase the reference count by ONE, and only if that record ends up at the end of your loadorder in a state that makes the game load that reference in given situation (then in that situation, that one loaded reference will add 1 towards the max cap).
 

[Tlam99]

Everything what is not master (esm flag) will count, if temp or persist doesn't matter.

This includes overwrites of the master. Overwriting this overwrite will not add, as it is the same ref.

Only pure esm ref will unload.

[Mookeylama]

thanks so much Roggvir and Tlam99! it's much clearer now.. great that multi changes to same ref don't count towards cap as i was about to mess w/ that.

bummer about persist tho. i'd thought that if marked as persistent, even in an esp, that it wouldn't count. oh well, i'm not that close to ref cap. like 750k. but was gonna add couple larger mods (esps).

i should just go back to sse but i keep gravitating back to an oldrim build that i love . thanks again