[SOLVED] Safely starting a new (initially) script heavy game

[leakim]

There's something that I've been considering lately. How do you safely start a new game with a lot of mod that has heavy initialization scripts?

 

Lately, I've been restarting a new game with many mods a LOT, and I feel like the result is often slightly different, when I try to test some of the mods to see if they've been setup correctly. For example:

• Sexlab Survival sometimes has not started all it's quests (so I end up needing to start them manually) - or maybe sometimes all the usually available ahegao tongues available in it are not present when you open the menu.
• SlaveTats sometimes has all textures loaded. Other times I have to explicitely click the "add/remove" button to indicate that it should reload.
• SLSF sometimes has a weird Papyrun storage error (that you can manually remedy in the MCM), other times not.
• Somtimes the widgets of SLSO are placed incorrectly and the only remedy is to start over.

 
Frankly, there are other examples of this and I think most people (including me) would probably not notice most of them, until they try to use a feature of a mod only to discover it does not work as expected.

 

It's not that the mods I have installed are generally script heavy, it's just that most of them do something when you start a new game, which makes me think they choke eachother.

 

My question is: Why?

 

I am running my game on extremely high-end hardware (5950X and 3090), yet this still occurs to me.

 

Is it "incorrect" to start a new game with all mods initially loaded? Should you instead enable them in batches to ensure all mods gets properly initialized?

 

I know some mod developers are very religious about people changing their load order after game start (usually they will yell at you telling you not to do it. :))

 

This is an phenomena I have experienced both in SE and in LE.

 

Perhaps some other people on this forum has some experience with this? God knows there are a LOT of mods with heavy initialization scripts on this forum.

 

SOLVED:

Just wanted to let everyone known that I have now been able to draw a conclusion to the startup problems I've been having, and it's actually a conclusion I am fairly happy with, since I have now been able to reproduce all my problems consistently and verified the integrity/brokeness of my game each time.

 

So essentially my conclusion is this:

• If you get a papyrus stack dump when you start up the game before exiting racemenu (which I somewhat consistently did) then your game is very likely to be broken.
  • Every time this happend to me during racemenu, I would have problems with various mods that had not initialized properly, and if it did not happen I could not reproduce any problems.
  • I would therefore highly recommend monitoring the papyrus log for stack dumps when you start a game (before exiting racemenu).
• In my experience, although this may be coincidental, you are less likely to receive a stack dump during the startup if the first thing you do after starting the skyrim is to start a new game. Loading an existing game first makes it more likely you will receive a stack dump (in my experience, although this may obviously be directly related to the mods I have installed).
  • In fact, pretty much everytime I had entered the game world and started a new game afterwards, I would have stack dumps during racemenu.
    • As such, starting a game using the "rolling approach" I initially described is not necessary, at least with my current mods, as long as I do not load an existing game first.
• Therefore I have made a tool that allows me to continuously monitor the Papyrus log that will warn me if a stack dump occurs. If it occurs during the startup sequence I just straight up start over. And I always keep Papyrus logs enabled. And I also always keep this tool running to warn me about bad behaviour from mods during standard gameplay, which has allowed me to identify poorly behaving mods such as [Blush when Aroused] and [XPMSSE]. If anyone is interested in said tool I do not mind sharing, but it is just something I put together in an hour in C#.

 

I would like to thank everyone who commented on this thread. You all helped me determine the root cause of my problems.

Edited July 30, 2022 by leakim

[pinky6225]

Can't say i've noticed this myself but then it might depend on where you are starting a new game, usually when i start a new game using the live another life cell i just go make a coffee to allow all the notifications to appear (i.e. X has loaded, X MCM entries load and so on) and then when all those have finished i'll do the sexlab install and let that process and when that's finished make a save, load that save and let any other mods do there notification thing

 

Then when all that is done and i'm getting no notifications/MCM updates i'll actually start going through the MCM and amending the settings

 

So for me getting that new game ready to use the altenerative start dialogue on the statue does take quite a while

 

Edit: One thing i have done is edit the skyrim.ini so the vanity camera has a stupidly high value and never kicks in

 

fAutoVanityModeDelay=32000.0000

 

so pretty much regardless of how long i go away from the PC it will stay in the 3rd person as i think some mods/scripted events really don't like it if you go into vanity cam when its doing stuff - originally set that for when i was playing Sexlab sex slaves and it was doing a long scene (which are cool and all the first time you see it) that i'd seen dozens of times

Edited July 16, 2022 by pinky6225

[leakim]

Well, Alternative Start is obviously also a part of my load order.

 

I do find that the MCM spam takes a while as well, but it is only slow because MCM is slow. The mods are done initializing FAR before those messages are done spamming. Try this to remedy that issue: 

 

You will generally not notice the issue I am talking about until you actually use the mods and notice something is not right.

 

And this is extremely frustrating because it takes such a long time to go through every MCM. Like 1-2 hours ^_^.

[yorpers]

5 minutes ago, leakim said:

My question is: Why?

 

I am running my game on extremely high-end hardware (5950X and 3090), yet this still occurs to me.

 

Is it "incorrect" to start a new game with all mods initially loaded? Should you instead enable them in batches to ensure all mods gets properly initialized?

 

I know some mod developers are very religious about people changing their load order after game start (usually they will yell at you telling you not to do it. :))

 

This is an phenomena I have experienced both in SE and in LE.

Installing mods partway through a playthrough is one of the easiest ways to break a save. It's just generally a bad idea unless you aren't too attached to the playthrough you are doing. Lots of data is baked into a save game and if that data changes in the game from adding mods that doesn't mean that the save can just update that data necessarily. This discrepancy can cause freezes that are not diagnosable and make the game unplayable.

 

18 minutes ago, leakim said:

There's something that I've been considering lately. How do you safely start a new game with a lot of mod that has heavy initialization scripts?

 

As far as this goes my advice is:

 

(assuming you use alternate start)

 

1 create your character and wait for all the popup messages to disappear then wait another 2-3 mins 

 

2 save the game and close skyrim completely

 

3 open the game back up and leave the starting cell to some small interior cell

 

4 initialize mods in mcm starting with sexlab

 

5 profit.

 

 

[leakim]

10 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

Edit: One thing i have done is edit the skyrim.ini so the vanity camera has a stupidly high value and never kicks in

 

fAutoVanityModeDelay=32000.0000

 

so pretty much regardless of how long i go away from the PC it will stay in the 3rd person as i think some mods/scripted events really don't like it if you go into vanity cam when its doing stuff - originally set that for when i was playing Sexlab sex slaves and it was doing a long scene (which are cool and all the first time you see it) that i'd seen dozens of times

 

I'd be lying if this was not something that had strafed my mind before. But with mod I mentioned above, it does not really take that long to go through those messages, so I never really stay away from the PC that long.

[leakim]

4 minutes ago, yorpers said:

Installing mods partway through a playthrough is one of the easiest ways to break a save. It's just generally a bad idea unless you aren't too attached to the playthrough you are doing. Lots of data is baked into a save game and if that data changes in the game from adding mods that doesn't mean that the save can just update that data necessarily. This discrepancy can cause freezes that are not diagnosable and make the game unplayable.

 

 

As far as this goes my advice is:

 

(assuming you use alternate start)

 

1 create your character and wait for all the popup messages to disappear then wait another 2-3 mins 

 

2 save the game and close skyrim completely

 

3 open the game back up and leave the starting cell to some small interior cell

 

4 initialize mods in mcm starting with sexlab

 

5 profit.

 

 

 

This wont work. The problems I am talking about has already been baked into the save once the MCM messages has stopped spamming. I have tested this extensively.

 

Essentially, the first thing I do after saving/loading, after the initial mod setup, is to test if various features of the mods I have installed work. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. And it's killing me.

Edited July 16, 2022 by leakim

[Gameplayer]

At some point you have to evaluate exactly what all you are trying to load into the game.

 

Some mods may actually be culprits for crashes and script slowness.

 

For most end-users the experience is having bad mods plus too many script heavy mods, graphic intense mods all coming together to make the perfect shit show that may seem possible to pull off but in reality is not.

 

Best advice, get Netframework which only works on PRE-AE that is SkyrimSE only.

Help you figure out when it crashes that said mod is the cause of your issue.

 

High End hardware should alleviate the issues most of us face, that is we are attempting to run too much.

Likely though....Graphics Card alone is not going to make it go away, SkyrimSE and Fallout 4 both like to have at least 16 Gigs free for it to play with note I am not talking about VRAM but RAM modules here.

 

Scripts are long thought to be attached to FPS....Oh great so that means if I have super high FPS everything runs better!

Nope...Another issue is that if you have wild FPS swings which is even more feasible on High End Hardware, you run into issues caused by sudden severe changes to FPS.

 

Example, on low end hardware....A swing from 45FPS to 60FPS and back forth....Not as severe as what can happen on high end system.

Generally speaking capping at 60FPS, is known safe FPS cap for highly modded play.

 

Example of that would be,

Go from 90FPS to 240FPS entirely possible on a good computer today.

Think the specs were CPU 4.2Ghz, 32Gigs of 3200 RAM, 3090ti

His problem was that he had such wild swings in FPS,

Solution to the problem was putting a Cap on the maximum possible FPS, I think it was 90 or 120 max cap FPS through the graphics card control panel.

Solved physics and scripting problems because both are tied to FPS, you want to make sure its steady as fuck no matter your limitations or exceptional capability.

 

Note that this is entirely likely to fuck over your game consistently when using mods because FPS swings causes problems in the game.

Only way to understand your FPS situation is to monitor it with tools such as MSI Afterburner there are others though.

 

It should be obvious if you are on high end hardware this will absolutely be an issue and you should identify and address this if you are serious about modded playthroughs of SkyrimSE and Fallout 4 with sexy mods.  I forsee this being an issue also with Star Field no doubt about it.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Gameplayer

[leakim]

11 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

At some point you have to evaluate exactly what all you are trying to load into the game.

 

Some mods may actually be culprits for crashes and script slowness.

 

For most end-users the experience is having bad mods plus too many script heavy mods, graphic intense mods all coming together to make the perfect shit show that may seem possible to pull off but in reality is not.

 

Best advice, get Netframework which only works on PRE-AE that is SkyrimSE only.

Help you figure out when it crashes that said mod is the cause of your issue.

 

High End hardware should alleviate the issues most of us face, that is we are attempting to run too much.

Likely though....Graphics Card alone is not going to make it go away, SkyrimSE and Fallout 4 both like to have at least 16 Gigs free for it to play with note I am not talking about VRAM but RAM modules here.

 

Scripts are long thought to be attached to FPS....Oh great so that means if I have super high FPS everything runs better!

Nope...Another issue is that if you have wild FPS swings which is even more feasible on High End Hardware, you run into issues caused by sudden severe changes to FPS.

 

Example of that would be,

Go from 90FPS to 240FPS entirely possible on a good computer today.

Think the specs were CPU 4.2Ghz, 32Gigs of 3200 RAM, 3090ti

His problem was that he had such wild swings in FPS,

Solution to the problem was putting a Cap on the maximum possible FPS, I think it was 90 or 120 max cap FPS through the graphics card control panel.

Solved physics and scripting problems because both are tied to FPS, you want to make sure its steady as fuck no matter your limitations or exceptional capability.

 

Well, despite running on high-end hardware I am actually already limiting the framerate to 60 FPS.

 

Interesting you should mention Netframework to diagnose the issue. I was already looking into the Papyrus log to see if I could see something there. I will try this as well.

 

What I am thinking at the moment is that some mods might be spending a long time on initialization due to the extensive amount of resources they might have to loop through (for example SlaveTats w/ many sets installed).

 

A question: Is it actually possible for mods to choke eachother? That is: So many scripts are running at the same time that causes some of them not to finish.

 

Edit:

 

I already do have Netscriptframework. But my game doesn't not actually crash. It's just that some mods does not initialize properly. Can NetScriptFramework log out such things?

Edited July 16, 2022 by leakim

[Gameplayer]

1 minute ago, leakim said:

 

Well, despite running on high-end hardware I am actually already limiting the framerate to 60 FPS.

 

Interesting you should mention Netframework to diagnose the issue. I was already looking into the Papyrus log to see if I could see something there. I will try this as well.

 

What I am thinking at the moment is that some mods might be spending a long time on initialization due to the extensive amount of resources they might have to loop through (for example SlaveTats w/ many sets installed).

 

A question: Is it actually possible for mods to choke eachother? That is: So many scripts are running at the same time that causes some of them not to finish.

 

Oh yes it most certainly is....Mods have to wait in a que....Its like a line at a cafeteria everybody basically waits their turn.

Loading in mods gradually is known tactic for getting a lot of scripty mods into the game but some of us just sort of say why bother.

 

Slavetats itself is not something I generally would accuse of being script heavy but I dont run with much packs for it, just the stockings an that is it, most of the stuff for it not to my taste.

 

It may benefit you to pop open your whole load order, get some extra eyes on it...Really think about what you want to accomplish in this playthrough and create a specific profile with Mod Organizer or Vortex if it is possible.

 

Sometimes it really helps cause there are well plenty of gamers that just can not say no to having this and that...plus that and that and well how am I going to play without this 100 scripted mods over here....Some of the mod line-ups I ahve seen are crazy.

[yorpers]

28 minutes ago, leakim said:

This wont work. The problems I am talking about has already been baked into the save once the MCM messages has stopped spamming. I have tested this extensively.

Then I'm not sure what is causing your problem. I have never had this happen with slso or slavetats. I don't use slsf or sexlab survival though.

A heavy load order can definitely do unpredictable things. However, I have 98 mcm menu's and the only one that ever gives me any issues is poser hotkeys plus. That is a knows issue for that mod though and a completely isolated issue with that specific mod. Best of luck?

 

1 minute ago, leakim said:

A question: Is it actually possible for mods to choke eachother? That is: So many scripts are running at the same time that causes some of them not to finish.

There is the possibility that you downloaded a booby trap style of mod or some incompetently made mod. But otherwise everything starts up fine for me and this is what my game starting up looks like.

[pinky6225]

Turning papyrus logging off by itself is most likely going to give you an improvement (outside of a couple of mods that need it as they are using a 3rd party program to read the log and do something there isn't a reason to have it enabled all the time)

 

Just to find script latency itself you can use Elephant's Script Latency Tester

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/24124?tab=description

 

Most recommendations i've seen are for it to be below 100 ms

[Gameplayer]

Hmm, another thing that people can consider....

 

For a long time now mostly we think in terms of papyrus, but SKSE scripting mods have come a long way...

So you may want to check to see if certain mods you like using that need native scripting have a SKSE alternative.

 

Examples, SkySA combat focused mod right but it is mostly using SKSE.

Depends on what all you have in your LO right now but you may in fact be able to dump a lot of native script mods for mods that use external scripts via SKSE.

[leakim]

8 minutes ago, pinky6225 said:

Turning papyrus logging off by itself is most likely going to give you an improvement (outside of a couple of mods that need it as they are using a 3rd party program to read the log and do something there isn't a reason to have it enabled all the time)

 

Just to find script latency itself you can use Elephant's Script Latency Tester

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/24124?tab=description

 

Most recommendations i've seen are for it to be below 100 ms

 

Been testing with this tool extensively as well, although I am not sure how accurate it is.

 

My experience is:

• Skyrim LE generally gets fairly low latency: 40 ~ 50ms
• Skyrim SE @ 60FPS sits rock solid at 80ms
• Skyrim SE @ 59FPS sits rock solid at 68ms
• Skyrim SE @ 120FPS sits at 40 ~ 50ms

 

And I can attest that the lower this value is, the more responsive the MCM generally feels. And you can definitely also feel that for example SLAL animations gets loaded quicker, etc.

 

I'm not sure that means that scripts get a bigger chance of completing, though. As they may just be killed quicker if they do not complete.

[leakim]

28 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

 

Oh yes it most certainly is....Mods have to wait in a que....Its like a line at a cafeteria everybody basically waits their turn.

Loading in mods gradually is known tactic for getting a lot of scripty mods into the game but some of us just sort of say why bother.

 

Slavetats itself is not something I generally would accuse of being script heavy but I dont run with much packs for it, just the stockings an that is it, most of the stuff for it not to my taste.

 

It may benefit you to pop open your whole load order, get some extra eyes on it...Really think about what you want to accomplish in this playthrough and create a specific profile with Mod Organizer or Vortex if it is possible.

 

Sometimes it really helps cause there are well plenty of gamers that just can not say no to having this and that...plus that and that and well how am I going to play without this 100 scripted mods over here....Some of the mod line-ups I ahve seen are crazy.

 

SlaveTats was really just an example of a mod that I thought could either be really fast at initializing or really slow.

 

Well. What I am doing at the moment is actually migrating from my old Legendary setup to Special Edition. In that process I have been dumping quite some mods. In fact I do not actually believe my setup is that heavy at the moment and I am definitely using SKSE-only mods where possible.

 

Installed mods (not Load Order):

 

Quote

DLC: Dragonborn

DLC: Dawnguard

Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch

Address Library for SKSE Plugins

SSE Engine Fixes

Bug Fixes SSE

Modern Brawl Bug Fix

NetScriptFramework SkyrimSE

Spell Perk Item Distributor - SSE

SkyUI

RaceMenu Special Edition

RaceMenu High Heels Fixes

Alternate Start - Live Another Life

Mfg Fix

Better MessageBox Controls

powerofthree's Tweaks SE

powerofthree's Papyrus Extender

Fuz Ro D'oh

JContainers SE

ConsoleUtilSSE

More Informative Console 1.0.1 SE

Simply Knock SE

PapyrusUtil SE - Scripting Utility Functions

SimplyKnockSE SKSE64 2.0.19 DLL

Stay At System Page

IFPV

IFPV Detector Plugin

TrueHUD (SE)

True Directional Movement (SE)

SmoothCam

MCM Helper SE

Extensible Follower Framework

FNIS Creature Pack SE

Nemesis Unlimited Behavior Engine

AddItemMenuSE

UIExtensions

PROTEUS

ScreenshotPadSE

Elephant's Script Latency Tester

Facelight Plus SE

Schlongs of Skyrim SE

XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended

BodySlide and Outfit Studio

Fair Skin Complexion for UNP

HDT-SMP for SSE

CBPC - Physics with Collisions

Baka Haeun UNP

Expressive Facegen Morphs SE

RYAmakeup

Female Makeup Suite - Face - 2K

YevMods - Makeup Pack YMMP 2K v1-1 HQ ESPFE

Hvergelmir's Aesthetics - Brows

SG Hair Pack

KS Hairdos SSE

HDT HairPack 1.50

[Dint999] HDT HairPack (1.50) SMP Patch - SSE

[Dint999] HairPack02 SSE

HG Hairdos

High Poly Vanilla Hair

ApachiiSkyHair_v_1_6_Full_optimized

ApachiiSkyHairFemale

ApachiiSkyHairMale_v_1_3

HDT-SMP Racemenu Hairs and Wigs

YunDao HDT Wigs and RM Hair SSE 4-9-3

KS Hairdos - HDT SMP (Physics)

SC - Hairs

Lovely Hairstyles CE

saLaHairsSE SMP

Great modders' SMP Hair pack and Xing

Sync Hair Wigcolor SSE

SG Female Eyebrows

MikanEyes v2.5 SE

New Mikan Eyes1.3

Fangs and Eyes Blue

The Eyes of Beauty SSE

Kala's Eyes

High Poly Head SE

ESL High Poly Pretty Face Brows Stand Alone

Maevan2's Eye Brows SE

Hvergelmir Brows - For High Poly Head

SG Eyebrows - For High Poly Head

Maevan2 Eye Brows - For High Poly Head

BD BHUNP 3.0

Heels Sound 1.5 SSE

Immersive Weapons

BHUNP 3BBB Minidresses Bodyslides

TEWOBA CBBE SE

TEWOBA BHUNP

TEWOBA - SLS Keywords

Dwemer Armor Glowmapped 2

TAWOBA REMASTERED CBBE SE

TAWOBA REMASTERED BHUNP

TAWOBA REMASTERED - SLS Keywords

BHUNP 3BBB Kziitd XXX Toolset v2.1

Nezzar Ult Lingerie Collection 2.0 - BHUNP SE

DX Fetish Fashion Volume 1 SE 3BA

[immyneedscake] RyanReos Bladedancer Mercenary

BHUNP RyanReos Bladedancer Mercenary Realistic Bodyslide

DX Fetish Fashion Volume II SE 3BA with Chest ESL

DX Fetish Fashion Vol 2 - BHUNP Bodyslides

Downloaded Racemenu Presets

RSSE Children Overhaul 1.1.3 with hotfix 1

Living Takes Time

Timing is Everything

Bathing in Skyrim

Bathing In Skyrim Tweaked

Skyrim Sewers 4

More Bandit Encounters Falkreath V 1.1.2 LH

More Bandit Camps SSE

Pumping Iron

Stay In Shape

Shieldmaiden Muscle Slider UNP

Immersive Wenches SE

Immersive Wenches -Apachii hairs- Patch

iNeed - Food, Water and Sleep

Masculinized Level Lists

Campfire 1.12.1SEVR Release

Tentapalooza SE

Tentapalooza Bathing in Skyrim Patch

Frostfall 3.4.1 SE Release

Campfire 1.12.1 and Frostfall 3.4.1SE

SexLabFrameworkSE

SLAL SE

SexLab Quite the Sperm Replacer 5

Sexlab - Cum Overlays

Spurt 1.0 (Cum effect sound replacer)

SexLab-Separate-Orgasm-SE-1.7.8

SexLab Utility Plus for SE v20220531 BETA

SLATE_SE

SLATE_Creature Patch(2021_10_21)

Sexlab Survival 0.685 Beta Voice Files

Sexlab Survival 0.685 BETA (14-Mar-2022) SE

Spank That Ass 4.5 Voice Files

Spank That Ass SE v4.8 BETA (27-Apr-2021)

SexLab Tools SE

SexLabAroused Redux V28b SSE Modified by BakaFactory

SexLab MatchMaker v9 (20210927)

Devious Devices

BHUNP Ver 3 Devious Devices SE Bodyslides

ZaZ Animation Pack+ UUNP HDT V.8.0+SEREV3

ZAP 8+ faster in and out of furnitures (SE)

ZAZ BHUNP

Sex Lab - Sexual Fame Framework SE V0.99

[SE] (Gen 2.1) Slaverun Reloaded V3-Beta1 EVP v1

[SE] Slaverun_Reloaded_VoicePatch v1

Slaverun Reloaded SE

Slaverun Version Fix for DD 4 and later

Slaverun Enforcer Patch

Inflation Framework SE

Fertility Mode

Fertility Mode v3 Fixes and Updates

Fertility Mode self-made SLIF fix

CreatureFramework V2_0_5

MoreNastyCritters_v12_6SE

BakaFactory Animated Beasts Cocks

Amputator Framework Tweaked SE v1.6 (07-May-2021)

Skooma Whore SE v1.01

Skooma Whore Patch 1.03 Voice Files

Hydra_Slavegirls_SSE_v1.0

Hydra Slavegirls 1.0 Voice Files

Simple Slavery Plus Plus 6.3.15 [SE]

[SE] SimpleSlaveryPlusPlus v6.3.12 Executaball Voice Pack BSA Gen1.2

[SE] SimpleSlaveryPlusPlus VoicePatch v3

WetFunctionRedux SE

WetFunctionTextures

Skyrim - Utility Mod

Devious Devices - Equip

TDF Prostitution and Pimping 2.2.5.5 Voice Files

TDF Aggressive Prostitution - v2_2_5_5SE

SexLab Eager NPCs 1.0.0 Voice Files

SexLab EagerNPCSERev2

Dripping when aroused

DFC - Voices - 2.14.X - Uniques (Mixed Quality)

DFC - Voices - 2.14.X - Main (v2) supplemental

DFC - Voices - 2.14.X - Main (v2) core voices

Devious Followers Continued SE 2.14.X - Male Orc Voice Pack

Devious Followers SE v2.14.X - FemaleSultry Voice Pack

Devious Followers - Continued SE v 2.14.4

EstrusForSkyrimSE

Estrus Chaurus V4.390 SE

Deviously Enchanted Chests SE 3.11

FMEA Skyrim V1.481 SE

Sexy Bandit Captives v0.98g SSE

TroublesofHeroineSE2.5.0

[SE] ToH v2.4.1 Voice Pack Gen 4

Public Whore v1.1.4 SE

PW Hero Fame Patch

PW 4096p SlaveTats

[SE] PW v1.1.2 Voice Pack Gen4 Rev1

[SE] PW v1.1.2 Voice Patch

Devious Lore SE v2.3.1

Devious Lore - KS Hairs Patch SE v2.0

Radiant Prostitution-Gigolo SE v6.1.8

[SE] Radiant Pr v7.0.4 Voice Pack Gen 4

SLSFFameComments v3.31 SE

SLSFFameComments 3.31 Voice Files

SexLab Body Search 20190814

BodySearch Dialog Patch - SE

[SE] Body Search (Dialog Patch) v1.0.0 Voice Pack Gen 4

Demonic Creatures V1.6 Special Edition

Patchfix v1.62 Special Edition

Apropos2.1.0.0.10

Apropos2 DB Update 0.6.20

Apropos2NonConEdit1.0.8

SlaveTatsSE-1.3.7

SexLab Corintio Slavetats

Heretical SlaveTatsPack v1.0

SlaveTats CumTextures Remake v1.2.5

The Coenaculi - Tattoo Parlor plugin for Slavetats UNP_MALE_Vanilla version Kyu

The Coenaculi Makeup for Slavetats version Kyu

Bikini tan lines

BrandingDeviceOfDoom_0_47

fadeTattoos_v1.0

rapeTattoos_v1.4

Rape Tattoos Tweaked

Fill Her Up Baka Edition

[SE] FHU Baka v1.71 Voice Pack Gen 4

Sexlab Defeat Baka Patch

SLHH Expansion 3.68

SexLab Horrible Harassment Expansion 3.67 Voice Files

SLDrunkRedux v1.3

SL Drunk 1.3V SLHH Patch

Sexlab Sexlab Approach Redux

SexLab Approach 2.12 Voice Files

BaboDialogue 4.40 English SE

BaboDialogue 4.401 Hotfix Patch English

[SE] BaboDialogue v4.401 Voice Pack Gen 4

Populated Skyrim Baka Edition

Milk Mod Economy SE Assets

[SE] MME v20210209 Executaball Voice Pack BSA Gen1.3

Milk-Mod-Economy-SE-Bodyslide

Milk Mod Economy

Milk Addict SE

LewdMarks for SlaveTats

The LactTat

yps-ImmersiveFashion(6.2.1)_SE&LE

yps-ImmersiveFashion Tweak BETA v2.4 (29-Oct-2021)

yps-Sound&TexturePack20200517_SSE

Nordic Warmaiden Body Hair - SlaveTats Version

SOS Pubic Hair for Females Addon (AIO) 1.3b

SOS Pubic Hair for Females UUNP Bodyslide

SmallerLipstickSlaveTats

YPS More Natural Makeups

Equipable Stockings

UNP patch for YPS Immersive Fashion

KS Jewelry SSE

yps-SSE-jsons

Pamatronics Deadly Furnitures

PamaPrisonAlternative_V1.3_ForSpecialEdition

PA_Extension_BadEndsRevived_Riften_V1.0_SSE

PA_Extension_BadEndsRevived_WindHelm_V0.6_ForSpecialEdition

PaPunishmentPack_V0.2_For_SSE

Non Devious Masterlists

Vanilla NPCs - Bikini Armors Patch 12_03_2022

Simple Slavery Plus Plus - Non-DD and Immersive Wenches Patch 14_06_2022

Slaverun Reloaded - Non-DD and Immersive Wenches Patch 14_06_2022

Hydra Slavegirls - Non-DD and Immersive Wenches Patch 07_03_2022

No Spinning Death Animation

Conditional Expressions

Conditional Expressions Extended

Conditional Expressions Extended - Blush When Aroused SE

Conditional Expressions Extended - DAR Trauma Conditions SE

Conditional Expressions Extended - Dripping when aroused SE

BakaFactory's SLAL Pack

Billyy's SLAL Animations 5.8

Billyy's SLAL Original Creature Animations 1.2

MYSLALPACK v12.0

SLAL FunnyBizPack CB_1.2

Anub H 7.2021

Anub C 7.2021

Anub F 11.2020

K4_anims-1.5SE

SLAL Animations by Leito v1.6

SLAL NibblesAnims

MilkySLAL-2-3

RZNEW_0_50_SE

NCK30 SLAL 3.4 SE

FlufyFox_SLAL_SE_Creature 1.3

FlufyFox_SLAL_SE_Human 1.3

GS_SLAL SE Creatures 20 02

GS_SLAL SE 06 06

SLAL ProxyAnims SE v2.2

3jiou-SE-19-12-2019

nazonootoko-SE-14-06-2017

BodySearchAnimsSE

DF Spank SLAL mini-pack - SE

Poser Hotkeys Plus SSE v2.5.1

GSPoses SE 04 07

GSPoses 11 07(Adult)

DynamicAnimationReplacer v1.1.0 for SkyrimSE - Unlocked

DAR - Pretty Sit Idles + Random Female Sitting

GS Animations R2

Momo Dash v1_1 no effect-11447

GetUpFast

Sexy Random Idles

EVG Conditional Idles

EVG Animation Variance 1.1

Better Jumping SE

Smooth Random Jump Animation

Ecotone Dual Sheath

Smooth Combo Animation Framework Fix

Animation Motion Revolution - Special Edition

IFrame Generator

Classic Sprinting Redone

DMCO+0.9.5

Animated Armoury

Animated Armoury - Immersive Weapons Patch

Olivier kenjutsu Greatsword -kiwami- SE

Olivier kenjutsu Combo V3.0 SE

Olivier kenjutsu 3 Combo (One handed weapon)SE V1.0

Nord Brothers Followers SSE - High Res

Static Mesh Improvement Mod

ENB Helper SE

Particle Patch for ENB

Realistic Water Two SE

SkyHUD v090B

NORDIC UI - Interface Overhaul

Obsidian Weathers - 1.07a

Merged ESPs

Body Morphs

Dual Sheath Meshes

FNIS Generated

Nemesis Generated

 

Note sure this list is the easiest to read through... not sure about the best way to generate it.

 

I have 246 ESL + ESP + ESM combined, without having needed to merge anything manually yet.

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by leakim

[leakim]

33 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

Loading in mods gradually is known tactic for getting a lot of scripty mods into the game but some of us just sort of say why bother.

 

Well. Maybe I shall try a gradual load. Why bother!? Because I really want this combination of mods.

[Gameplayer]

13 minutes ago, leakim said:

 

SlaveTats was really just an example of a mod that I thought could either be really fast at initializing or really slow.

 

Well. What I am doing at the moment is actually migrating from my old Legendary setup to Special Edition. In that process I have been dumping quite some mods. In fact I do not actually believe my setup is that heavy at the moment and I am definitely using SKSE-only mods where possible.

 

Installed mods (not Load Order):

 

 

Note sure this list is the easiest to read through... not sure about the best way to generate it.

 

I have 246 ESL + ESP + ESM combined, without having needed to merge anything manually yet.

 

 

That does not seem to be as heavy as you have described.

 

Honestly it may be more of a matter of just making sure you have appropriate version numbers for everything, which on SkyrimSE version is a BIG deal.

 

Be sure you used the Downgrader, although I opted for the Downloader version by same author to ensure I had SkyrimSE rather than the AE version of the game.

 

You do have picks I did not run with, I opted not to run bathing mods, not gotten into Devious mods for SE....

I noticed squirt, cum mod in there...Nah none of that in mine

 

What else here Amputator, not sure I would bother there

Proteus does look like a fun idea but I figure why bother I will just roll another character instead, just less bloat that way.

Milkmod economy well uh why?

 

My own load order is basically 

SkySA combat orientated with Nemesis heavy stuff,

And basic sex with companions through EagerNPC and Amorous Adventures

 

Might not sound amazing but it plays great, combat is really exciting.

True Directional Movement amazing pick good fun with Smooth Cam.

 

[leakim]

2 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

 

That does not seem to be as heavy as you have described.

 

Honestly it may be more of a matter of just making sure you have appropriate version numbers for everything, which on SkyrimSE version is a BIG deal.

 

Be sure you used the Downgrader, although I opted for the Downloader version by same author to ensure I had SkyrimSE rather than the AE version of the game.

 

You do have picks I did not run with, I opted not to run bathing mods, not gotten into Devious mods for SE....

I noticed squirt, cum mod in there...Nah none of that in mine

 

What else here Amputator, not sure I would bother there

Proteus does look like a fun idea but I figure why bother I will just roll another character instead, just less bloat that way.

Milkmod economy well uh why?

 

My own load order is basically 

SkySA combat orientated with Nemesis heavy stuff,

And basic sex with companions through EagerNPC and Amorous Adventures

 

Might not sound amazing but it plays great, combat is really exciting.

True Directional Movement amazing pick good fun with Smooth Cam.

 

 

I have been very aware of which version of Skyrim I am running. In fact, in my first attempt I did use the wrong version due Steam updating my game. But I have downgraded.

 

And I am confident that the SKSE plugins are the correct versions (doubled checked them).

 

The setup is really just meant to be incredibly misogynistic. That's the main purpose and for that those mods works incredibly well together. The main purpose is not to get the ultimate gameplay.

 

Proteus: I was basically using the get the right look on my followers in Skyrim LE, but I have yet to use it in SE at all. But I did experience some joy with it in LE, so I simply decided to include it for that purpose alone. I do NOT use it to modify the PC. That would be a mess.

 

Is it possible to analyze which mods spends most time in scripts?

[Gameplayer]

22 minutes ago, leakim said:

 

I have been very aware of which version of Skyrim I am running. In fact, in my first attempt I did use the wrong version due Steam updating my game. But I have downgraded.

 

And I am confident that the SKSE plugins are the correct versions (doubled checked them).

 

The setup is really just meant to be incredibly misogynistic. That's the main purpose and for that those mods works incredibly well together. The main purpose is not to get the ultimate gameplay.

 

Proteus: I was basically using the get the right look on my followers in Skyrim LE, but I have yet to use it in SE at all. But I did experience some joy with it in LE, so I simply decided to include it for that purpose alone. I do NOT use it to modify the PC. That would be a mess.

 

Is it possible to analyze which mods spends most time in scripts?

If there is a way to monitor which mods use time in scripts I have not found it.

 

Mostly its been fairly obvious that certain mods will do so such as mods in Devious Devices, likely Horrible Harrisment...Likely pregnancy mods as well.

 

At some point though, there is not much to be done about that and only thing to do is plan around their use and not let it bother you.

Again not sure I would expect too much trouble with your load order just making sure that you have the correct versions of the mods may be all that is needed.

Example, I get asked often about what version of SMP and CBP I am using so I did post those over up on LadyHorus TBD Tera Bodyslide since some had issues with the current versions of those mods on SkyrimSE version of the game.

 

There are plenty of little pit falls that can occur other than physics, like having the right stuff for Sexlab SE to work properly and I cannot remember them all off the top of my head because I also have a big load order haha.

 

It is of course all of these little version order issues that come up that can clobber a game though.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Gameplayer

[leakim]

14 minutes ago, Gameplayer said:

If there is a way to monitor which mods use time in scripts I have not found it.

 

Mostly its been fairly obvious that certain mods will do so such as mods in Devious Devices, likely Horrible Harrisment...Likely pregnancy mods as well.

 

At some point though, there is not much to be done about that and only thing to do is plan around their use and not let it bother you.

Again not sure I would expect too much trouble with your load order just making sure that you have the correct versions of the mods may be all that is needed.

Example, I get asked often about what version of SMP and CBP I am using so I did post those over up on LadyHorus TBD Tera Bodyslide since some had issues with the current versions of those mods on SkyrimSE version of the game.

 

There are plenty of little pit falls that can occur other than physics, like having the right stuff for Sexlab SE to work properly and I cannot remember them all off the top of my head because I also have a big load order haha.

 

It is of course all of these little version order issues that come up that can clobber a game though.

 

I do certainly expect some of these mods to have some script load and I do not mind that. The main thing I care about right now is how much script load the mods have right when you load them/start the game, so that I can initialize my game properly and prevent the issues I mentioned in the first post.

 

I will probably try to do a rolling load/start and report back if I experience any problems doing so.

 

Maybe loading all the mods in 2 or 3 batches.

 

[leakim]

So I put in the time to do a "rolling" start, enabling mods over 3 iterations.

 

In this new game I managed to get started I have not experienced any of the issues I usually experience.

 

Now does that mean that there are none of these types of issues? Unlikely! But at least I am not aware of them. I tested all the things I know usually might fail and everything worked perfectly.

 

What an ordeal... Skyrim Modding sure is hell. But I guess we already knew that :). Now it's time to reap the rewards.

[leakim]

13 hours ago, Gameplayer said:

My own load order is basically 

SkySA combat orientated with Nemesis heavy stuff,

And basic sex with companions through EagerNPC and Amorous Adventures

 

Your game sounds so vanilla (sex-wise, of course) that it makes me wonder why you're even on this forum. I thought this forum was only for complete degenerates like myself.

 

Anyway. Wanted to thank you. It frustrates me greatly, though, that the solution was sitting there staring me in the face this entire time. And it frustrates me even more greatly, that I actually had considered this solution and decided against trying it ^_^ (don't know what I was thinking). Hopefully this thread will serve as a help for someone else.

 

It makes me wonder if setting those Papyrus budget variables during startup might help alleviate the situation as well (you know, those variables everyone is telling you not to touch):

 

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=?
fUpdateBudgetMS=?
...

 

I might test that at some point. Should be fairly straight-forward, given how easy it is for me to reproduce startup problems.

 

Anyway, I'm off to look for even more depraved shit to fit into my load order (and maybe at some point play the game).

[Dervecna]

Hello everybody.

 

First of all, I'd like to thanks Leakim for the idea of doing a "rolling" start. I'm gonna try it right now because I'm currently trapped into moding hell.

And I do believe my issue is related to what Gameplayer said about wanting this and that and overloading my game.

 

I'm currently trying to run a mod setup with 2481 mods and 2088 plugins. I know this sound crazy, but the foundations for my LO was a very good and stable wabbajack install (Aldrnari) that I'm using for gameplay/graphics base with some extra sexlab mods. And I probably need to better sort what mods I actually need. 

 

So far, I was being able to start a new game and test it for an hour no problems, until 2 days ago. I'll try to resume what happened 2 days ago and I was hoping if someone can give me a hand to figure out my issue.

 

2 days ago, I added the last bunch of mods I wanted. Before doing it, the game was "playable". Not the most stable thing (It had some CTD after an hour or so playing and some sexlabs that took forever to start) but at least I was able to start it. When I added more mods, it gave me CTD on launch and after I removed some of them I got CTD after closing racemenu while the mods were starting.

I deleted some mods (all installed trought MO2) and got it back to the point where I can at least test the game again. But now I can't add any mod. Anything I try to add and I get back to the CTD after racemenu. I know it's not the new mod faults because I've tried with lots of different mods that people report to use without any problem, including the Elephant's Script Latency Tester.

 

Can anyone help me figure out what's happening?

 

 

[yorpers]

3 hours ago, Dervecna said:

I'm currently trying to run a mod setup with 2481 mods and 2088 plugins.

 

3 hours ago, Dervecna said:

Can anyone help me figure out what's happening?

You can post some net script framework crash logs somewhere if you are using it, otherwise it is very unlikely anyone can help with running so many mods. With a mod list like that it could easily be something fairly complex like multiple quest pathing errors that you will need to go into SSEdit and create a targeted patch for. You can try a rolling install, but that's basically like pissing on a forest fire. The incompatibility nightmare that you are suffering from is still there; but hey at least you tried something.?

 

 

[leakim]

6 hours ago, Dervecna said:

Hello everybody.

 

First of all, I'd like to thanks Leakim for the idea of doing a "rolling" start. I'm gonna try it right now because I'm currently trapped into moding hell.

And I do believe my issue is related to what Gameplayer said about wanting this and that and overloading my game.

 

I'm currently trying to run a mod setup with 2481 mods and 2088 plugins. I know this sound crazy, but the foundations for my LO was a very good and stable wabbajack install (Aldrnari) that I'm using for gameplay/graphics base with some extra sexlab mods. And I probably need to better sort what mods I actually need. 

 

So far, I was being able to start a new game and test it for an hour no problems, until 2 days ago. I'll try to resume what happened 2 days ago and I was hoping if someone can give me a hand to figure out my issue.

 

2 days ago, I added the last bunch of mods I wanted. Before doing it, the game was "playable". Not the most stable thing (It had some CTD after an hour or so playing and some sexlabs that took forever to start) but at least I was able to start it. When I added more mods, it gave me CTD on launch and after I removed some of them I got CTD after closing racemenu while the mods were starting.

I deleted some mods (all installed trought MO2) and got it back to the point where I can at least test the game again. But now I can't add any mod. Anything I try to add and I get back to the CTD after racemenu. I know it's not the new mod faults because I've tried with lots of different mods that people report to use without any problem, including the Elephant's Script Latency Tester.

 

Can anyone help me figure out what's happening?

 

I'm not writing here in an attempt to help, because I simply can't. But I will give you my thoughts/some philosophy, since you posted in this thread:

 

In my experience with modding in Skyrim, using mods that you do not know what is doing (or do not need) is a recipe for disaster, and is probably also the reason a lot of people on this forum "frown" upon modpacks (with the other obvious reason being content rights). 

 

In the setup I am running, I basically know all the features of all the mods I am installing. I know their MCMs like the back of my hand, I know their interdependencies and I know exactly how I need to configure them to work together properly. This knowledge has not come cheap, I do not even dare count how much time I've spent modding my Skyrim setup, testing various mods to see what works together and what does not. 

 

It is no exaggeration that when I start a new game, it takes me a good 1-2 hours to configure everything correctly (despite know exactly what to do). This only to be followed by some extensive testing to ensure it has been setup correctly, so I am pretty sure a nasty suprise is not waiting for me 10 hours into my playthrough.

 

The solution to the problem I mentioned above was to do a "rolling start" or whatever the hell you might call it, initializing mods in batches. This was needed for me because a lot of mods from this forum has heavy script initialization. I am not sure how much this is also the case with "content mods"/packs from nexusmods (I mean, why make a great-big mod pack if it cannot even initialize properly? You're gonna get swamped in support requests)

 

However, performing a rolling start leads to a a great many questions:

• Which mods should I start with?
• Which mods should be included in which batches, during my startup sequence?
• What problems might arise from not having mods initialized initially?
• And most importantly: How do plan on testing whether or not what you are doing has any effect/is working? How easy is it to reproduce your problems? If you do not have an easy way to see if your problems are solved, then everything could be for nothing.

 
How do you answer those questions? Noone is going to be able to answer them for you, so you will have to find the answers to them yourself.

 

For me, it was not that hard. Why? Because I know all the mods I have installed like the back of my hand, as I said previously.

 

However, even doing this, I have now recognized one issue (and probably more to come) with the way I started the game. Apparently some of the SOS-addons I have will not register with SOS, unless they are loaded during game start, so I cannot use them in my playthrough. This is not a massive deal for me, but it just goes to show how unpredictable Skyrim modding truly is.

 

Finally, let me add a few comments about game stability: I only recently upgraded my setup to Special Edition. Even though I gameplay-wise had a fairly stable game in LE, there was one glaring issue: Memory allocation/memory leaks. It is the unsolvable problem of Skyrim LE. I could play the game a while (time depending on how heavy the loaded cells were), but each game session would always end in the same way: Memory allocation error. Having frequent crashes can suck the fun out of any game. Upgrading to Skyrim Special Edition solved this, and the joy I now derive from the game has increased many-fold. My point being: It is better to have a stable game than a heavily modded one.

Edited July 20, 2022 by leakim

[onen]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:09 AM, leakim said:

the way I started the game

I use AE with 600+ mods and no startup issues so I'll share what i do starting a new game assuming alternate start is used.  This may not be perfect but it works for me.

1) Wait for the mod init spam to finish

2) MCM->SexLab Install,  close MCM and wait for it to finish installing.

3) MCM->Sexlab->Animation Settings check allow creature animations.  Should be done before registering animations if you use creature animations.

4) MCM->SL Anim Loader->General Options click enable all.  click register animations and wait till it finishes.

5) Save game and exit.

6) Start Skyrim and Load saved game.  Wait for any mod init spam to finish.  Some mods may register their MCM's at this time as well.  Mods like Estrus Chaurus check for animations at this point so it's important to register the animations before your first save.

7) Spend 2+ hours setting up all the MCM's.  Make sure you don't have more than 125 MCM's, that's the limit.  I've experimented with the mod that increases the MCM limit with unstable results so i don't use it.  Also I only open 1 MCM, set it up, then close the menu back to game.  Rinse and repeat.  I had MCM's get corrupted in the past if i open to many in a row without closing the menu.