SevenBase Hide - My First Armour Mod

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

(*Not 100% sure where this needs to go - I erred on the side of caution as it may include some nudity later on when testing the armour)

 

 

Hey there! Thanks to the kind help of RAZORPONY and NEPHENEE13 over at Nexus who helped me solve a .NIF importing problem, I am making progress on my very first armour - Hide armour for SevenBase! YAY!
 
After using gerra6's Clothing Bodytype Converter in Blender, I made a rough-but-serviceable lattice to convert the Vanilla female cuirasslight_0 from the Vanilla body to SevenBase "Bombshell", and used it to do most of the mesh editing for me.
 
Using Nightasy's tutorials, I then opened up the Vanilla body in 3dsMax, junked it, and kept the skeleton, imported the Bombshell body minus the skeleton, and then imported my modded Hide cuirass over the top of THAT (**I THINK THIS MAY HAVE CAUSED PROBLEMS**). Some rough touch-ups to the mesh followed, etc., current WIP stands thus:
 

 
 
 
 
I then went to check it out in-game, but was greeted by this:
 

 
 
 
I do not know why this occurs. I know I have missed something (or several things) crucial. I think it may be due to my trying to monkey-around with the skeleton - I don't have a use for BBP or XPMS, and so I was trying to make my own gear using the Vanilla skeleton...

[Demonhunter]

Ahhh the dreaded red triangle, yep had heaps of those, that right thier is a false 3d marker. im sorry i havent responed to your pms, i did look at the page an actually tried the script but it was far to crazy for me to understand .  ill pm you soon with some tutorials that may help  

 

And if your going to do an armor for Seven base just post it in the Sevenbase thread and ill add it to an armor section

 

Demon

[Khiropter]

when i used dimo body to convert the hide it worked perfectly (Well first try ingame was missing the texture not that it would be a prob). Sadly i cannot offer you much help as im in kinda the same issue whit another armor in which i would say i have attached the wrong bones to the armor need to check.

 

Btw when you modified the armor to match the body did you deleted the skin wrap and BSDismemberSkin Modifier ? and then readd it when your done ? that can be a prob and also make sure you've added the armor to the Skyrim mainbody or skyrim torso. (i forgot that when i was playing whit the osare panties and ended up wearing them from head to toes ) )

[abovewolf]

I think you should check your texture path under BSLightingShaderProperty. It has been a long time since I saw one of those, but I am kinda certain it is a missing texture, most likely cause is wrong path, or forgot to assign one.

 

I find it easiest to strip the whole exported texture and material crap, saving just the DismemberSkinInstance, and copy all the stuff from the original body/armor. No way that can fail!

 

The hands and feet showing could also mean you have improperly assigned body parts, meaning the nif you edited is called something other than what Skyrim looks for(IN the DismemberSkinInstance properties), but there wouldn't be a big red triangle.

I know you will work it out with help. The armor looks nice!

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Ahhh the dreaded red triangle, yep had heaps of those, that right thier is a false 3d marker. im sorry i havent responed to your pms, i did look at the page an actually tried the script but it was far to crazy for me to understand .  ill pm you soon with some tutorials that may help

 

And if your going to do an armor for Seven base just post it in the Sevenbase thread and ill add it to an armor section

 

Demon

 

Once I got past the .NIF importing bit it was straightforward enough - but this first attempt is still pretty bloody rough! Heh heh! Yep - I'll have some armors done pretty shortly I think, if I can get these bugs ironed-out (your tutorial-fu would be greatly appreciated! Many thanks Demon! ).

 

Next task for me: what the hell is a false 3D marker and how do I kill it (I'm thinking fire. Lots of it.)? 

 

 

 

when i used dimo body to convert the hide it worked perfectly (Well first try ingame was missing the texture not that it would be a prob). Sadly i cannot offer you much help as im in kinda the same issue whit another armor in which i would say i have attached the wrong bones to the armor need to check.

 

Btw when you modified the armor to match the body did you deleted the skin wrap and BSDismemberSkin Modifier ? and then readd it when your done ? that can be a prob and also make sure you've added the armor to the Skyrim mainbody or skyrim torso. (i forgot that when i was playing whit the osare panties and ended up wearing them from head to toes ) )

 

Yep - BSDismember stuff was deleted in NifSkope, and the skin wrap was deleted & re-made in 3dsMax, added to Skyrim Main Body. If you're encountering the same problem, I'll make sure I post any solution here!

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

(*Sorry abovewolf - I missed this one earlier!!!)
 
 

I think you should check your texture path under BSLightingShaderProperty. It has been a long time since I saw one of those, but I am kinda certain it is a missing texture, most likely cause is wrong path, or forgot to assign one.
 
I find it easiest to strip the whole exported texture and material crap, saving just the DismemberSkinInstance, and copy all the stuff from the original body/armor. No way that can fail!
 
The hands and feet showing could also mean you have improperly assigned body parts, meaning the nif you edited is called something other than what Skyrim looks for(IN the DismemberSkinInstance properties), but there wouldn't be a big red triangle.
I know you will work it out with help. The armor looks nice!

 
As far as I know, texture path is "Skyrim Main Body" in 3dsMax under DismemberDistance:

 

 
 
 
Or do you mean in NifSkope? If so, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for there...

[Aegis]

Not missing texture, the question mark means incorrect mesh.

 

1. You don't actually need dismemberskin to get the armor to work, skin modifier is more than enough.

 

2. To get dismemberskin to work, you need to assign the correct biped slot in nifskope, as the 3ds export creates many incorrect entries.

 

3. Turn off vertex color of your resulting mesh appears black, 3ds export turn on vert color by default.

 

4. Check your ninode order. All the sub-meshes must be nested under a single node.

 

 

You'll also need to fix various parameters with your nif export such as material property, bad bslighting, etc...

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Not missing texture, the question mark means incorrect mesh.

 

1. You don't actually need dismemberskin to get the armor to work, skin modifier is more than enough.

 

2. To get dismemberskin to work, you need to assign the correct biped slot in nifskope, as the 3ds export creates many incorrect entries.

 

3. Turn off vertex color of your resulting mesh appears black, 3ds export turn on vert color by default.

 

4. Check your ninode order. All the sub-meshes must be nested under a single node.

 

 

You'll also need to fix various parameters with your nif export such as material property, bad bslighting, etc...

 

Hey Aegis!

 

I do apologise - my knowledge of how to do any of these things is nil. I know it's a lot to ask, but are you able to supply pictures, or more information?

 

(If it helps - here's what the mesh looks like in NifSkope):

 

[Aegis]

Just from what I see, instead of NiMaterialProperty, which are remnants left over from 3ds export, you need BSLightingShaderProperty. Open up the nif of a working mod to see how the structure works.

 

Everything seems to be nested correctly, which is good.

 

I'd just test by deleting all the NiMaterialProperty entries (ctrl-delete), then copy over a random BSLightingShader set from a working nif and test out the mesh in game to see if it shows up. Worry about textures/shaders later.

[Aegis]

Also, for dismemberskin to work correctly, you need to assign the correct biped (body part) number to each sub-mesh, consult this guide for more details:

 

http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Skyrim_bodyparts_number

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

I originally had to delete the BSLightingShaders to be able to import the NIF to Blender to work gerra6's Clothing Bodytype Converter.

 

I deleted the NiMaterialProperty, then copied the BSLightingShader block from the original Vanilla hide cuirass. However, no matter where I located it in the list (r-click > block > paste, then CTRL up or down), NifSkope gave a warning "attached to wrong"-something (sorry - I deleted the mesh & replaced it), and attempting to equip the armor crashed the game.

[Aegis]

Why would you go from blender to 3ds then to nif?

 

Blender exports create a set of invalid entries that you need to fix (wrong game version, bad target morph, etc), and 3ds exports create its own set of invalid entries (bad vert color, bad material property, incorrect tangent space etc). Why complicate things for yourself?

 

Why not just export from blender to nif or 3ds to nif? Both programs can import nif just fine.

 

 

Anyways, back to topic, game crashing on mesh load probably means that your dismemberskin isn't properly set up, which is mostly likely the reason why you wasn't able to copy the BSLightingShader over - that, or you have changed the skeleton or have removed skeletal nodes from your weight map.

 

You might also want to check your BSLightingShader parameters. i.e. setting the modifier to "default" with implicit env map would instantly crash the game on load, as would a few shader flags.

 

I'm sure many entries have been screwed up with your double import/export, so you might need to go back and comb through each nif entry...

[abovewolf]

So it is a missing mesh! Cool I forgot what the Exclamation mark was for after all.

You do have to remove the BSLightingShader initially to import, but after your work is done, the nif has to be set back up to original properties. Every Nitrishape needs it's DismemberSkinInstance and a BSlightingShaderProperty. You just have to click on each Nitrishape and scroll down in the block details beneath the render window to the Properties tab. Expand it, doubleclick one of the None spots and plug the number of a BSLightingShaderProperty you pasted into the nif. If the outfit has 5 parts including the body, for instance, you will need 5 BSLightingShaderProperty. Even if it all comes from the same texture map, you need a copy for EACH mesh. Pretend Skyrim has to draw, cover and light each piece as if it were a separate object like a table or chair...because it does!

 

I am guessing you only exported the armor part and copied it onto a working body? I am not sure why you attached SevenBase to a vanilla skeleton, but it is rigged to to a BBP skeleton AFAIK, which means it needs more bones than the vanilla or I have forgotten something else! I think if you use a mesh that is set up for BBP without such a skeleton, you get a CTD. Simply attaching it to a skeleton won't solve it. You will have to actually rig the SevenBase to the new skeleton, so it FORGETS what it used to do with the more advanced BBP skeleton. I suppose it could be as simple as deleting the weights to any 'breast' bones/armature and try exporting that. Alternatively, since you have the Bombshell gear, you could install that, and use it's skeleton. The armor will definitely work that way. You don't have to install any of the animations if you don't want clipping, else you are right back to rigging the mesh to a new skeleton. I admit I may have some or all of this wrong. It just doesn't look like the body part of your nifskope pic shows the breast bones.

 

To summarize, you only need the nitrishape and dismemberskin from your export- you can dump the rest. Each nitrishape needs 2 things to be game ready: proper body assignments in dismemberskin (so skyrim knows what part it is supposed to draw), and the BSLightingShader assigned to the Properties area as described (so Skyrim knows what to cover it with)

Also of course user version has to be set, but I'm sure the tuts covered it.

 

Try this and see if your game runs with your nicely crafted armor! It gets better with time!

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Why would you go from blender to 3ds then to nif?

 

Blender exports create a set of invalid entries that you need to fix (wrong game version, bad target morph, etc), and 3ds exports create its own set of invalid entries (bad vert color, bad material property, incorrect tangent space etc). Why complicate things for yourself?

 

Why not just export from blender to nif or 3ds to nif? Both programs can import nif just fine.

 

 

Anyways, back to topic, game crashing on mesh load probably means that your dismemberskin isn't properly set up, which is mostly likely the reason why you wasn't able to copy the BSLightingShader over - that, or you have changed the skeleton or have removed skeletal nodes from your weight map.

 

You might also want to check your BSLightingShader parameters. i.e. setting the modifier to "default" with implicit env map would instantly crash the game on load, as would a few shader flags.

 

I'm sure many entries have been screwed up with your double import/export, so you might need to go back and comb through each nif entry...

 

Sorry Aegis - I should have supplied more info earlier. It must seem like I'm bouncing around between several different programs for reasons unknown:

 

CURRENT WORKFLOW (more-or-less - as of this latest attempt this morning)

 

 - Follow instructions to create lattice in Blender using Gerra6's CLOTHING BODYTYPE CONVERTER scripts. Lattice to morph armours from stock Vanilla to SeveNBase Bombshell is made. It's rough, but serviceable.

 

 - Using NifSkope, prepare armor .NIF for import to Blender (startup version, User values, remove bsshaders, as per the video tutorial here)

 

 - Import .NIF to Blender. Make it morph. Latest attempt supplied (although this is missing a ton of info and I have no idea why - Gerra's "Using Lattices" section ***REALLY*** needs pictures, if anyone is able):

 

Hide Cuirass 0 for 7B - 4TH ATTEMPT - re-added user values.rar

 

(*Turns out the mesh I was using yesterday was actually non-lattice-morphed Blender-exported Vanilla, which would explain why it seemed so odd-looking to me & why it took me so long to edit in 3dsMax. Got the lattices to work today, so the shape should be much better)

 

 - Open up in NifSkope again and change the user values back to what they should be... and wonder where all the info from the left-hand column has gone...

 

 

 - Re-read the above posts & try to figure out NifSkope.

 

 

 

 

 

*Vows to continue the experiments*

 

 

UPDATE: Okay - I've been trying to copy across the BSDismemberSkin branch from a Vanilla hide cuirass, but it keeps saying that the "NIF versions differ! Current File Version: 20.0.0.5  Clipboard Data Version: 20.2.0.7  Results will be unpredictable..." even though both NIF's startup version values are *IDENTICAL* at 20.2.0.7...

 

Still - I *did* manage to polish the mesh a bit more in 3dsMax - the fit of the armour is *MUCH* better now:

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: Okay - exported a quick tester from Max, opened in NifSkope to take a look, all that missing info seems to be back in this new mesh:

 

 

No I need to get the BSDismember & lighting stuff back in for the armour... copying & pasting the branch from Vanilla is not working, it just says "failed to map parent link"...

 

 

UPDATE: GAH! Yes, I have definitely been missing something - take a look at the circled area in red. "BSDismemberetc." and "Skin" are both missing. I need to add them.

 

[abovewolf]

Your blender workflow.... regardless of whether you create the lattice yourself or use someone else's MUST end with rigging for best results. You are basically changing the mesh and it's behavior will suffer as a result, unless you update the weight painting, which is easiest with bone weight copy from the SevenBase body you are custom fitting it to. This is a separate issue, but still an important part, if you are converting armors from various bodies.

 

In the end, you need to be able to export the mesh parented to the skeleton. (Easiest way is to have the entire mesh selected (in OBJECT mode- hold SHIFT and click each part to highlight) and then just import the skeleton from SevenBase- you will see the option in your import settings to just get the skel.

 

As soon as that is done you should be able to export, as everything will be highlighted after the import of the skel. This will give you a nif that you can then change the user numbers, delete the material, specular, and lighting crap. The nitrishape, and dismemberskin branches will remain, obviously with nitridata. At this point all you need to do is check the dismemberskin for correct body setting.

 

The final step IMO, is copy the BSLightingShaderProperty from the source meshes, as they are already set up for the game. However, to succeed make certain the Ninode of each mesh has the EXACT same name..like Scene Root or Cuirass_1.nif - every letter, dot and line matter. After the copy and paste, check each Nitrishape branch in the block details Properties tab, expand that and type the number assigned to the BSLightingShaderProperty in there.

 

Hope I didn't oversimplifiy things. Keep at it. I swear once you get it, you will be able to smash through armor conversions like belisarius! Okay well....maybe...

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Your blender workflow.... regardless of whether you create the lattice yourself or use someone else's MUST end with rigging for best results. You are basically changing the mesh and it's behavior will suffer as a result, unless you update the weight painting, which is easiest with bone weight copy from the SevenBase body you are custom fitting it to. This is a separate issue, but still an important part, if you are converting armors from various bodies.

 

In the end, you need to be able to export the mesh parented to the skeleton. (Easiest way is to have the entire mesh selected (in OBJECT mode- hold SHIFT and click each part to highlight) and then just import the skeleton from SevenBase- you will see the option in your import settings to just get the skel.

 

As soon as that is done you should be able to export, as everything will be highlighted after the import of the skel. This will give you a nif that you can then change the user numbers, delete the material, specular, and lighting crap. The nitrishape, and dismemberskin branches will remain, obviously with nitridata. At this point all you need to do is check the dismemberskin for correct body setting.

 

The final step IMO, is copy the BSLightingShaderProperty from the source meshes, as they are already set up for the game. However, to succeed make certain the Ninode of each mesh has the EXACT same name..like Scene Root or Cuirass_1.nif - every letter, dot and line matter. After the copy and paste, check each Nitrishape branch in the block details Properties tab, expand that and type the number assigned to the BSLightingShaderProperty in there.

 

Hope I didn't oversimplifiy things. Keep at it. I swear once you get it, you will be able to smash through armor conversions like belisarius! Okay well....maybe...

 

 

 

Quick question:  SevenBase skeleton is the XPMS skeleton_female.nif, yes? As in - it doesn't come with one, you need to find & install an option such as XPMS, yes? That's the one I'm using (abandoned earlier attempts to use different skeleton).

 

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Okay - opened my mesh edit in 3dsMax (Blender was uncooperative), removed body, and exported armour with skeleton included. Armour now has a BSLightingShaderProperty when viewed in NifSkope. Is that getting on the right track?

 

Hide Cuirass new edit TEST 2 - WITH XPMS SKEL Copy.rar

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Why would you go from blender to 3ds then to nif?

 

Blender exports create a set of invalid entries that you need to fix (wrong game version, bad target morph, etc), and 3ds exports create its own set of invalid entries (bad vert color, bad material property, incorrect tangent space etc). Why complicate things for yourself?

 

Why not just export from blender to nif or 3ds to nif? Both programs can import nif just fine.

 

 

Anyways, back to topic, game crashing on mesh load probably means that your dismemberskin isn't properly set up, which is mostly likely the reason why you wasn't able to copy the BSLightingShader over - that, or you have changed the skeleton or have removed skeletal nodes from your weight map.

 

You might also want to check your BSLightingShader parameters. i.e. setting the modifier to "default" with implicit env map would instantly crash the game on load, as would a few shader flags.

 

I'm sure many entries have been screwed up with your double import/export, so you might need to go back and comb through each nif entry...

 

I'm thinking that a lot of this is covered in the old 2pac(?) video tutorial located here, which covers a lot of the *WHAT*, but very little of the *HOW* - especially when it comes to NifSkope. Is there a tutorial that covers how to do these things in NifSkope?

 

[me3]

http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Skyrim._Part_1

http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Skyrim._Part_2

 

part 2 covers everything for nifskope,tut is for blender,works 100% unless u step off the path of peace.......

[abovewolf]

 

 

Quick question:  SevenBase skeleton is the XPMS skeleton_female.nif, yes? As in - it doesn't come with one, you need to find & install an option such as XPMS, yes? That's the one I'm using (abandoned earlier attempts to use different skeleton).

 

Actually, what you do is select import for the body size you are customizing for, say the female_0.nif for example. The nif will have all the right bones already, as it is a game working asset. The import window pops up with lots of options like when you imported the armor originally, but you just need the skeleton from the nif, not the body, so select the box that says something about import and parent skeleton only. It will automatically parent it to whatever you have selected BEFORE you import, so that's why I recommend selecting all your armor parts. It saves you a step, and there are enough of those already!

Of course, you have to have set the user number correctly for blender to import, you can't just go grab the nif from Skyrim character asset folder. I recommend you keep a working directory for your custom BASE meshes that have the BSLightingShader removed, user number changed, etc. - essential files like hands, feet, and body, so you can import anytime. This way, when you are working on custom armors and you need a fresh body to chop up (covered by armor) you can get it. Alternatively you can import both body size files for all the body parts and just stick them in separate work files. It is still good to have those nifs import ready to get the skeleton. 

 

I just prefer this way, but everyone is unique after all. Sometimes on the initial armor import I actually use the skeleton to move armor parts around just like you do with lattices. Then I apply the changes and trash it. After I am happy with my model I just grab a clean one. All is good.

 

Good luck in your work! Remember to have some fun...

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Many thanks everyone for staying on this - it's slow going, I know, but I'm learning a lot and I really appreciate your help!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have hit a snag of sorts. I have followed the "Creating an Armour for Skyrim" tutorial almost all the way through, having made my morph in Blender, added all the things to it that were missing before, and it's looking promising (no actual manual mesh editing yet - I'm going to do that in Max as I find it easier there than in Blender)!

 

Where the tutorial gets to dealing once more with NifSkope, problems arise. It's occurring at the "Adjust the armour in Nifskope - Adjust the armour properties" part where the scene root is deleted. My first attempt to remove this resulted in the removal of what looked to be the skeleton (along with almost everything else with one fell click). My second attempt (started from scratch again - 6th attempt overall) has got to this same point, but there does not actually appear to *be* a scene root exported, which seems odd. Here is the NIF - if you could take a look, I'd be grateful!

 

Hide Cuirass 0 for 7B - 6TH ATTEMPT BLENDER - EXPORTED NIF - Copy2.rar

[b3lisario]

1. Delete stuff

Load the nif in nifskope and remove these nodes:

- BSShaderPPLightingProperty

- BSShaderTextureSet

- NiSpecularProperty

- NiMaterialProperty

 

2. Fix biped slot

NiNode - NiTriShape - BSDismemberSkinInstance

Go to block details: partitions / partitions / body part: delete BP_TORSO and type 32

 

3. Copy shaders from the original file

Load the original file in another Nifskope

Locate the BSLightingShaderProperty node corresponding to the armor mesh and ctrl+c it. Go to your mesh and paste it over the NiTriShape

 

It should work ingame, but you will notice your body is invisible as there is no body mesh in the armor.

 

4. Get a body

Copy-paste it into the nif file, or paste the armor into a body mesh.

 

In case of doubt, compare your file with the original file

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

1. Delete stuff

Load the nif in nifskope and remove these nodes:

- BSShaderPPLightingProperty

- BSShaderTextureSet

- NiSpecularProperty

- NiMaterialProperty

 

2. Fix biped slot

NiNode - NiTriShape - BSDismemberSkinInstance

Go to block details: partitions / partitions / body part: delete BP_TORSO and type 32

 

3. Copy shaders from the original file

Load the original file in another Nifskope

Locate the BSLightingShaderProperty node corresponding to the armor mesh and ctrl+c it. Go to your mesh and paste it over the NiTriShape

 

It should work ingame, but you will notice your body is invisible as there is no body mesh in the armor.

 

4. Get a body

Copy-paste it into the nif file, or paste the armor into a body mesh.

 

In case of doubt, compare your file with the original file

 

 

Hey Belisarius - many thanks!

 

Okay - I have got it to Step 3 above, and the armour is invisible, but at least is no longer crashing the game when I try to equip it.

 

However - every attempt I have made at copy+pasting as per Step 4 is unsuccessful. NifSkope will not accept a body with a skeleton, so I have to remove all the nodes to get it in (same if I try do copy+paste armour to body), and it keeps forcibly changing the name - it won't let it stay as "Material001", which is what the body is named in the actual SevenBase body .NIFs. I know I'm *VERY* close to getting this to work as it should, but I'm having trouble clearing this obstacle! Heh!

 

 

PROGRESS MADE - NOT CRASHING GAME cuirasslight_0.rar

 

Next steps:

 

**  NiTriShapeData > Has Normals > change to NO

**  NiTriShapeData > BsNumUVSets > change from 4097 to 1

**  Make sure Dismember is properly located/assigned

 

DONE!

 

Armour will now display in-game, but the body remains invisible! Take a look:

MORE PROGRESS - ARMOUR NOW VISIBLE, NO BODY cuirasslight_0.rar

 

 

 

 

STILL MORE PROGRESS - BODY PRESENT, BUT NOT DISPLAYING cuirasslight_0.rar

 

 

Here is my latest effort:

ADDED DISMEMBER - CLOSE NOW... STILL MORE PROGRESS - BODY PRESENT, BUT DISPLAYING BIZARRELY cuirasslight_0 - Copy.rar

 

 

*Break for soup*

[FastestDogInTheDistrict]

Ahhhhhh crap... okay - apparently I was wandering off into the weeds...

 

Here is my Blender file immediately prior to export - this may give some insight into what is going wrong:

 

 

[b3lisario]

Starting from

"MORE PROGRESS - ARMOUR NOW VISIBLE, NO BODY cuirasslight_0.rar"

 

Knowing that the name of the root node of your body mesh is "Material001":

 

1. Nifskope - Rename the root node:

 

Menu view --> reset block details

In block details:

NiHeader / Strings / "Hide Cuirass 0 for 7B - 6TH ATTEMPT BLENDER - EXPORTED NIF"

Edit that string, type "Material001"

 

2. Copy armor mesh to body mesh:

 

Load your _0 mesh in another NifSkope

copy the NitriShape

paste it over the body mesh, root node.

Save as cuirasslight_0.nif