[spoilers] Game of Thrones . . . wtf man

[Monsto Brukes]

just watched s03ep9 . . . where rob and mom were gutted in frey's throne room. I just finished like :20 ago, and was pretty shocked at the whole murder scene thing.

 

The more I think about it the more annoyed I get.

 

There's a thousand little characters coming in and out. If you wanted to tie up each thread at the end of the season (which they don't do, I get that) there'd only be time for 1 segment for each 2-3 characters, there's so many little things going on.

 

I dunno . . . It's just fucking annoying...

 

So where's it going to lead? I'll bet The Imp and the Stark girls will have something to do with revenge over this. But none of that will matter when the Mother Of Dragons makes landfall in Westeros. That's the best thread in the entire series.

 

_{(and then my sig.)}

[Ashal]

As somebody who has read the books years ago, your tears of anguish over this episode give me sustenance.

 

But really, Rob was a fairly minor background character in the books, you never had things from his point of view, you got everything about his story 3rd hand or through the occasional Catelyn Stark chapter when she was with him. It sucked and was a huge shock, but it didn't so much feel like they were killing off main characters like they did with Ned Stark in the first book.

 

My biggest thought when watching the TV show is how confused and lost non-book readers must be without all the background story and inner monologue provided in the books over the show, but I can assure you it's going places. The thing to keep in mind with the series though is it's never going the places you THINK it's going, and that in my opinion is one of the reason's it's considered a great series, and one of my favorite books. I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make is thinking the show is all about the Starks and their revenge on being wronged or whatever, when really the Starks are nothing more than our primary eyes and ears for the real story going on all throughout the world.

[AaylatheNord25]

This scene ruined me mentally when I read them a year ago. It was mind blowing that George RR Martin would kill them! So worth it for next weeks episode, tho.

[Angrybird]

Holy shit, that will take a while to forget

 

Edit: No seriously, my stomach is upset I'll have to get some air.

[formel]

That's the special appeal of the whole series, there are no immortal main characters who master all situations unharmed. That all characters can die gives the series an extra portion realism an of course increase the tension.

[Rayblue]

Ooops, must be a Papyrus scripting glitch.

[Monsto Brukes]

I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make is thinking the show is all about the Starks and their revenge on being wronged or whatever, when really the Starks are nothing more than our primary eyes and ears for the real story going on all throughout the world.

That is an excellent point... and it greatly changes my perspective of the show.

 

at first it was like "what the hell is going on?"... It's not much better now, but that really makes a lot of sense as the starks are spread all over the continent giving a kinda 'grand tour' perspective.

 

Now...

One of the reasons people watch shows like this is for the abstract fantasy aspect. A regular guy succeeding in an extraordinary situation. Action movies can take this too far... Die Hard series is a perfect example.

 

But here, you have pretty much "regular" people in regular situations and they could fail at any moment? Horseshit. I do that everyday. Watching someone else do that isn't entertaining.

 

And that scene was sooo out of the blue. Lots of 'out of the blue' things happen. Surprises are one thing, but "where the fuck did that come from" is tiring. 

 

Hitchcock talked about suspense vs surprise. He used the example of 2 people sitting in a diner talking about baseball and BOOM a bomb goes off. Yeah that's shocking and surprising but then it's over. But if you let the audience know there's a bomb, then you can stretch out the scene and build some anticipation. "why are talkin about baseball! there's a bomb under the table!" THEN you can shock and surprise the audience with something improbable to that context and it will seem perfectly normal specificaly because of the heightened tension.

 

so for example, if we knew somehow that Denarys (sp?) spoke Valeryan, or that someone found out about the assassination and was trying to get there to warn the starks (but was too late) etc etc. You know . . . suspense, versus contentment and destructive surprise. "what the hell are you 2 fondling and kissing for! He's gonna kill ALL y'all! Get outta there!"

 

I dunno  . . . I'm not so sure that a bunch of these types of things, shit that makes wholesale changes to the story with little if any warning, are any better than the "waking up from a dream" trope.

[sindriss]

I hated those characters!! Sooo glad to see them get slaughtered!

 

If they didn't build up these characters first then it would mean very little when they get killed.

 

 

[Khiropter]

Im still reading the first book but ye at the end of ep 9 today i was like WTF!!!!!. i will read all but atm i took a break to read something that is more interesting to me at this point : The godfather. My mom gave this book as a present this Easter and i wanna read it

[Ashal]

It was far from out of the blue. Hints of coming betrayal for Robb where all over the place if you're paying attention and/or already know it's coming.

[Angrybird]

It was far from out of the blue. Hints of coming betrayal for Robb where all over the place if you're paying attention and/or already know it's coming.

 

Do you mean the moment they closed the door xD or even before that? Because I miss a lot of stuff in between all the praying and crying hoping that no one dies.

[Veta]

I already knew this was going to happen and yet I was still a little surprised especially on how brutal the stabbing of Jeyne(or talisa call her what you want) also I wouldn't call Rob a minor character , if he hadn't been betrayed he might have actually gotten casterly rock and the war might have taken a different turn . If you ask me the entire fault was Edmure's .

[jonas_opines]

I really liked Robb's wife's ass and was not so much disappointed that she got killed but the "way" she got killed. I thought it was a bit overdone to repeatedly stab her in such a place.

 

Haha, the way you phrased these two separate thoughts makes it sound like she got stabbed repeatedly in the ass.  

[Myst42]

I think Im actually mourning the Starks... I know they are book characters, but still something happened over time... and now I think I actually feel sad like mourning a real person...

Even though I had read spoilers in Wikipedia and knew what was going to happen... I still wasnt prepared

 

The more I see the bad people in GOT the more the words come to my head "Burn them all"

 

That is most definitely what they all deserve... I read the books werent even finished but I really hope the remaining good people makes it to the end, Daenerys burning all bad guys Is my idea of a good ending along with that. I really like Daenerys, I also like Arya Stark, John Snow Tyrion Lannister is a good guy too and lately even Jaime Lannister proved to have some good... but the bad guys... please please BURN THEM BURN THEM BURN THEM ALL!!!

 

Spoiler Alert!:

 

One thing that makes me happy is that Joffrey Lannister is about to die too   

 

[cretin]

Yeah, I stopped watching the moment the axe fell on Sean Bean's neck.  It was that point I knew that the books were written by an angry nerd, for angry nerds.

 

I watch fantasy to, you know, fantasize.  Not to watch unrequited injustice performed week after week in a makebelieve world.  It's exhausting.  Stories need catharsis.  It's not a complicated equation.

 

But, hey, I'm proved wrong by the popularity.  So there you go.  About the best I can say is that those who love Game of Thrones totally deserved this last episode.  *grin*

 

[Veta]

Yeah, I stopped watching the moment the axe fell on Sean Bean's neck.  It was that point I knew that the books were written by an angry nerd, for angry nerds.

 

I watch fantasy to, you know, fantasize.  Not to watch unrequited injustice performed week after week in a makebelieve world.  It's exhausting.  Stories need catharsis.  It's not a complicated equation.

 

But, hey, I'm proved wrong by the popularity.  So there you go.  About the best I can say is that those who love Game of Thrones totally deserved this last episode.  *grin*

 

 

So as long as it not fan service where everything goes the way you want it to go and the "hero" saves the world you think it's for angry nerds .

[Myst42]

^ this

 

Although behind what it is, and taking away the offending part, there is a part of truth...

Specifically about the word "catharsis" 

GOT needs some... badly or else it not gonna be something I enjoy watching but rather upsets me

For the moment, the only character that provides said catharsis continues to be Daenerys... last time I checked the books spoiler, she was still alive and now that the Starks are gone, she's the only one with both kindness and power enough to lead the story to a good ending

 

It all depends on the writer... If he has some minimal sense of poetic justice, he will lead the story to an end where she wins... but knowing the previous horrors, he could just as easily have her killed in horrible way on his next book. THEN, and only THEN I would just throw the thing away thinking there is something seriously wrong with his head... But that would be just a personal choice and opinion...

 

I mean how would all the fans of The Lord of the Rings feel if Frodo would have failed in the middle of the story, all the hobbits killed, Aragorn decapitated and Arwen raped and killed by orcs with Sauron emerging as the lord of all? What if the emperor just killed Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader unredeemed, Leia and Han Solo exploded on their ship and the Alliance defeated by the Empire? How would that make fans feel huh? What if in Assassins Creed, Ezio was executed with his family at the very beginning of ACII never to have the revenge upon the conspirators that murdered his loved ones? Is that real enough?

[cretin]

Hold on now, I truly apologize if I offended; as a died-in-the-wool nerd myself I speak only in irony.  I recognize my opinion as just that.  And I don't think you have to be thin-skinned to hold something dear, especially something as challenging as RR Martin.

 

I have respect for everyone here at LL.  I just like a little spice is all, and it's true, I have an opinion about his themes.  You can't imagine how upset I was with Ned's death, I ranted to all who would listen, and I should recognize that that speaks to the quality of the material (whether I like it or not).  Reading ahead to the Red Wedding only upset me more.  So again, apologies for appearing to target the fans, when I haven't the fortitude to be one. 

 

Frankly I'm more of a Leiber man myself, so these waters have been charted before.

 

[Monsto Brukes]

It was far from out of the blue. Hints of coming betrayal for Robb where all over the place if you're paying attention and/or already know it's coming.

 

well I guess If i knew it was coming, then yeah it wouldn't be out of the blue.

 

On the other hand, of course there was betrayal in the air, always has been... but that level of betrayal was out absolutely unwarned.

[Myst42]

Yeah but continuing the rant... realism is nice

Is nice to have the good guys suffer obstacles and passing difficulties, but what really is gratifying is when they overcome them, cause it means something, it inspires and brings up the good shit. They master their fears and triumph over harshness and adversity. Its not cool when you have us following a story for years and then make the main character die in a horrible useless way for no reason at all leaving his/her story unfinished.

 

There is enough crap in the world already for us to have to deal with it in our recreation time and fantasy too

 

I follow the story cause I still have the hope George Martin has some poetic justice and after all this crap is gonna give a good ending.. that and the narrative way.

But if he doesnt, and still pursues the objective of turning it all to crap, Ill just think his mind is a very sad sad place and follow his work no more despite the good quality of the story

 

Cmon... fantasy is escape from reality, its not supposed to be crappier than it. Its ok to make it believable, but bad endings still suck

[lordofthedread]

Yeah but continuing the rant... realism is nice

Is nice to have the good guys suffer obstacles and passing difficulties, but what really is gratifying is when they overcome them, cause it means something, it inspires and brings up the good shit. They master their fears and triumph over harshness and adversity. Its not cool when you have us following a story for years and then make the main character die in a horrible useless way for no reason at all leaving his/her story unfinished.

 

There is enough crap in the world already for us to have to deal with it in our recreation time and fantasy too

 

I follow the story cause I still have the hope George Martin has some poetic justice and after all this crap is gonna give a good ending.. that and the narrative way.

But if he doesnt, and still pursues the objective of turning it all to crap, Ill just think his mind is a very sad sad place and follow his work no more despite the good quality of the story

 

Cmon... fantasy is escape from reality, its not supposed to be crappier than it. Its ok to make it believable, but bad endings still suck

 

Thats actually what I personally love about GOT, despite being a fantasy universe it is very well human with all the (very) bad things and good ones.

 

I mean come on I am personally tired of the Cinderella and White Snow stories, no matter how many dragons and boobs you could put in.

[Myst42]

Yeah I can agree on the point that unpredictability, evolution of characters and realism meaning bad things happen is nice to have, I dont like an "easy" story either but my point is the harder the obstacles are, the better the reward at the end, its even real if the good ending comes with a heavy price for the good guys who do not go unharmed to the end.

I noticed that change in Jaime and The Hound characters.

 

But there is a limit for everything, bad things happen on reality, but good things happen too. Making ONLY bad things happen and the bad guys win over and over again, slaugthering everything good in their way is just plain cruelty. I realize the trend now is to like bad endings. Im not a hipster (hell no) but the expression TOO MAINSTREAM comes to my mind

 

I realize Im an outcast for liking good endings and no one agrees with me anymore. Even though I like a certain dose of realism and unpredictability and I know the real middle ages was much worse... when it comes to fantasy, I like a story that at the very least, in the end provides closure and catharsis.

 

Im just saying... If he decides to kill Daenerys Im out.

[Monsto Brukes]

I ran a D&D session a few years ago where the basis was turning classic assumptions on their ear... The high priest, the philanthropist banker and a couple of other notable good guys were part of a secret group similar to the Masons. In order to protect their secret (a machine that could transmute lead into gold), which was only to be used in the coming prophesied time of war, they created a vampire by ceremony (and a bite of course). The vampire was completely aware of the political machinations, and hated those people more than anything because of what they did to her... but she was bound from telling anyone anything about it.

 

So, like the man in black on the show Lost, she went way out of the way to manipulate events (when you live for hundreds of years, you can do that) and thus here come the player characters...

 

In the end, the players had to choose between helping the classic bad guy who's trying to do the right thing, or the classic good guys who have been twisted and corrupted by their political and financial power.

 

Either way, good guys win, bad guys lose and later on I can constantly twist the knife of "you should have". . . but since they had a fundamentalist zealot druid in the party, they attacked the vampire who would have wiped em but I let it go.

 

Point is, that's a hard choice. The end of the story could be rife with regret either way. It's the kind of choices that we make every day, but they're not made by the movers and shakers of the world.

 

to watch people work and scrap and push to get ahead and then not just fail but "pay the ultimate price of failure". . . is not entertaining.

 

But yeah, I get it, it's part of the grand story. It's book 3 of a slated 6 I think and it's the first time that i've been just outright annoyed. I suppose I can deal.

 

[snaz2000]

Yeah, I stopped watching the moment the axe fell on Sean Bean's neck.

 

Think you were revisiting Boromir :|

 

wish they hung Sansa... her whining is killing me... there should be a re-write of the book where she fraks Tyrion to the extent where she manipulates him into muzzling Joffrey with a buckling ball gag...

[snaz2000]

 The godfather...

 

a Corleone would've seen the wedding scene coming... all the Starks are generally made to look stupid by GRRM...