Mod... Overload? (Or engine limitations leading to CTD?)

[solonlost]

I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to troubleshoot the following issue:

 

I have enboost and 200+ mods on my fallout, including AAF + addons, Modern Firearms, everything VTAW, lots of guns, etc, etc. In many ways, everything is fine. The initial launch of the game invariably leads to a CTD, but the second launch always works. Then in game, I need to get things to... click into place, for lack of a better way to explain it. Game runs alright, slowdowns where expected, but if I don't get it to "click into place" it always CTD's after about 20 min of gameplay or the moment I try to access my pipboy (pip pad), or press ESC for the menu (the console opens fine, but something like "openactorcontainer" insta CTD's things). Now, if I give it time to load everything in the background and find a nice small cell, I can *sometimes* get the Pip Pad to open without it CTD'ing. Once that has been achieved, the game is fine and will often run all day without any further CTD's. Sometimes it's also possible to do it by just walking outside a settlement in a sparsely populated area, and then open the Pip-Pad. Once the Pip Pad has succesfully launched 1 time, everything is almost completely stable.

 

Obviously I've spent rather alot of hours attempting to fix this. I run TruBy9 (21:9) screen, HUD framework, Immersive HUD and some stuff from the FallUI series. Disabling all of it makes no difference to this behaviour. Disabling all workshop related mods like faster workshop, workshop framework and some others, same thing, also makes no difference. I keep disabling one mod at a time, but nothing appears to have any effect. The effect is far less pronounced if I start a new game - i.e., achieving succesful pip-pad opening, is far easier than in a late game situation with most of the settlements having 15+ settlers. This all leads me to think I'm running into an engine limitation rather than a bug with a specific mod.

 

Anyone else have a similar experience? And... just maybe, a solution? Restarting the game ten times to get it to run stably gets annoying sometimes, as is not being able to exit it without going through the whole "pip boy please open" rigmarole...

[Indarello]

1 hour ago, solonlost said:

I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to troubleshoot the following issue:

 

I have enboost and 200+ mods on my fallout, including AAF + addons, Modern Firearms, everything VTAW, lots of guns, etc, etc. In many ways, everything is fine. The initial launch of the game invariably leads to a CTD, but the second launch always works. Then in game, I need to get things to... click into place, for lack of a better way to explain it. Game runs alright, slowdowns where expected, but if I don't get it to "click into place" it always CTD's after about 20 min of gameplay or the moment I try to access my pipboy (pip pad), or press ESC for the menu (the console opens fine, but something like "openactorcontainer" insta CTD's things). Now, if I give it time to load everything in the background and find a nice small cell, I can *sometimes* get the Pip Pad to open without it CTD'ing. Once that has been achieved, the game is fine and will often run all day without any further CTD's. Sometimes it's also possible to do it by just walking outside a settlement in a sparsely populated area, and then open the Pip-Pad. Once the Pip Pad has succesfully launched 1 time, everything is almost completely stable.

 

Obviously I've spent rather alot of hours attempting to fix this. I run TruBy9 (21:9) screen, HUD framework, Immersive HUD and some stuff from the FallUI series. Disabling all of it makes no difference to this behaviour. Disabling all workshop related mods like faster workshop, workshop framework and some others, same thing, also makes no difference. I keep disabling one mod at a time, but nothing appears to have any effect. The effect is far less pronounced if I start a new game - i.e., achieving succesful pip-pad opening, is far easier than in a late game situation with most of the settlements having 15+ settlers. This all leads me to think I'm running into an engine limitation rather than a bug with a specific mod.

 

Anyone else have a similar experience? And... just maybe, a solution? Restarting the game ten times to get it to run stably gets annoying sometimes, as is not being able to exit it without going through the whole "pip boy please open" rigmarole...

Disable groups of mods and test

[solonlost]

As mentioned, been there, done that. I cannot identify any one group of mods that is responsible. Also, the fact that it can be stable regardless of which set of mods I have en- or disabled, doesn't really seem to support the "it's caused by a single mod" theory. At best, it's a certain combination of mods, or perhaps even multiple combinations of mods.

 

I really need to find someone who has seen similar behaviour.

[Sgt. Marge]

12 hours ago, solonlost said:

As mentioned, been there, done that. I cannot identify any one group of mods that is responsible. Also, the fact that it can be stable regardless of which set of mods I have en- or disabled, doesn't really seem to support the "it's caused by a single mod" theory. At best, it's a certain combination of mods, or perhaps even multiple combinations of mods.

 

I really need to find someone who has seen similar behaviour.

 

You could try posting your plugin list / load order as a spoiler tag maybe someone can spot something meaningful.  Are you using Buffout?  Baka scrapheap?  The guide I followed is Here, there is a section called F4SE that has some stability stuff in there maybe that would help if you don't already have those.  I was having random crashes and major lag in some places, so I ditched scrap everything and so far things are rock solid.

 

Edit: Looks like there are a couple newer mods on that list I haven't tried yet.  Specifically I am using

Address Library for F4SE Plugins

Baka ScrapHeap - Script Memory Limit Expander

Buffout 4

[solonlost]

I'll give those suggestions a go. I'll find the modlist. For a moment there I was thinking it might be framerate related as it was finally working normally again for a go, but today we're back to ctd's.

 

I do have Buffout, the address library etc. I do also have scrap everything. I'll try disabling that again too.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll report back if something works, and I'll export my modlist.

[Sgt. Marge]

9 minutes ago, solonlost said:

I'll give those suggestions a go. I'll find the modlist. For a moment there I was thinking it might be framerate related as it was finally working normally again for a go, but today we're back to ctd's.

 

I do have Buffout, the address library etc. I do also have scrap everything. I'll try disabling that again too.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll report back if something works, and I'll export my modlist.

 

The issue with scrap everything is that the more it is used to remove things that you wouldn't normally be able to remove, it can break "precombines" putting more stress on the game and causing lag and ctd's.  So if you've been removing alot of the trash in settlements or the broken buildings, that could be causing issues.  In that case you'd be best off removing that mod and starting a fresh character.

[solonlost]

I'm down to 73 mods now. The more I remove, the longer it takes for the ctd to occur, but it still happens, most consistently in workbenches.

 

It also occurs far from any settlements, like a the the coastguard base, leading me to think that scrap everything isn't related.

 

It also occurs the same way on a fresh game.

 

I'll go on removing mods, but I'm getting to the bare minimums, AAF and associated stuff and fusion girl and associated stuff.

 

Beginning to think it's probably related to a mod that I really don't want to do without, but I'm having alot of trouble understanding why it was fine for a long time and now even occurs in new games. Very strange.

[Sgt. Marge]

6 minutes ago, solonlost said:

I'm down to 73 mods now. The more I remove, the longer it takes for the ctd to occur, but it still happens, most consistently in workbenches.

 

It also occurs far from any settlements, like a the the coastguard base, leading me to think that scrap everything isn't related.

 

It also occurs the same way on a fresh game.

 

I'll go on removing mods, but I'm getting to the bare minimums, AAF and associated stuff and fusion girl and associated stuff.

 

Beginning to think it's probably related to a mod that I really don't want to do without, but I'm having alot of trouble understanding why it was fine for a long time and now even occurs in new games. Very strange.

 

 

You could try nifscan to check for problems with meshes

 

You could also post your load order in a spoiler tag, maybe someone will spot a mod that misbehaves.

 

One that I recently, and reluctantly removed from my load order was Northland Diggers because I was getting a random CTD while navigating to it or passed it via workshop mode (suspected conflict with a file from Start Me Up).  So if your crash is happening in workshop mode, try disabling some of your workshop related mods, start new game and test. 

[Nuka Cherry]

An alternative to loading everything up and working backwards is to build from a solid base.

 

I use a light modlist from Wabbajack like The Midnight Run, as this includes buffout, stutter fix, etc and some basic mods but no body/clothing/script or texture mods. Then I run the step 1 texture optimisation part from the BiRaitBec  modlist- and choose performance. You can run this anytime, even after fully modding a game and playing it for 100 levels - warning it can take 2 hours or so. After that you can start adding in mods and looking at Fo4 edit for conflicts and conflict patching as you go. My modlist is around 200 now, and rock solid with SS2 included and some scripty SKK mods - also 35 loverslab mods - which can be like cats in a bag.

 

Also, I prefer "this is trash" as scrap everythinig has ruined my saves in the past.

 

Given you are suffering crashes out in the world and at the workbench - I would burn it all down and start again (and I am assuming you use MO2. otherwise......

 

 

 

 

 

[solonlost]

As much switching around as I've done, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's physics or possibly refresh rate related or the like. It's just hard to understand how I was able to play largely problem free for 70 or so levels and now I have a crash even on a new game.

 

I have the game limited to 60fps and switched off the gsync compatibility so it still refreshes at 144hz.

 

I'll keep fiddling. Eventually, a stable combination must be achievable.

[solonlost]

Wonder if anyone can make sense of the following.

 

1. Disable AAF, start game, which automatically also disables six other mods. No CTD on menu and opening MCM screen

1a. Manually disable those six other mods (which also include themes)

2. Reenable AAF, no crash

3. Reenable the two themes mods one by one. no crash

4. Reenable SEU, no crash

5. Enable the remaining mods (BP70 anims, 50 shades anims and Atomic Lust anims) one by one. Immediately crashes again regardless of which combination of those three mods I do, sometimes on opening the main menu, sometimes at the main menu, sometimes on opening the MCM.

6. Disable all three of the offending mods, restart (effectively putting us back at step 4), but it still crashes, if not on main menu then on MCM.

7. Disable AAF completely, restart, no crash exit with exitsave.

8. reenable everything upto step 4,  works again without crash on opening MCM page.

 

It's like AAF makes some sort of cache of the installed anims when it loads with those mods enabled (keep in mind that it crashes without saving in that condition).

 

Disabling AAF, restarting, making a save, and the reenabling AAF and everything upto step 4 seems to remove whatever ctd condition is present.

 

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Do all three of those anim mods have the exact same problem? Or is it one of them, and once it's loaded once, the ctd cause becomes persistent untill there's been a clean save without aaf?

 

I may try again seeing if I really can't narrow down to one of those three mods, assuming it remains mostly crash free now.

[Sgt. Marge]

If you are starting to narrow down the crash as something related to AAF, have you seen the Troubleshooting AAF guide, as well they have their own discord server and tech support sub-forum which is where that guide I just linked resides.

[solonlost]

I did eventually solve this, with some abrasive help on the AAF discord. It turns out that my buffout install had gotten broken, somehow, somewhere probably while I was fiddling. It's... not completely stable with buffout working but it is mostly playabke now. The crashes have changed to busy combat and the occasional infinite loadscreen. Sometimes in workshop mode when moving some items with place anywhere.

 

Guess I'll have to make do with that.