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Confusion with Gender-Specific Skeletons


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I am confused about some things with GSS.
If i play as Male Character :
  • Install Skeletal Adjustments CBBE Knee Fix (Choose GSS Installation Type)
  • Then, Install ZaZ Extended Skeleton
  • Then, Install GSS (Choose Male Player Option | Copy skeleton.nif from Knee Fix to NPCAssets in Data\Meshes\actors\character)
If i play as Female Character :
  • Install Skeletal Adjustments CBBE Knee Fix (Choose Vanilla Installation Type | Choose Vanilla Skeleton under GSS for Male NPC)
  • Then, Install ZaZ Extended Skeleton
  • Then, Install GSS (Choose Female Player Option | Copy skeleton.nif , skeleton.hkx , skeleton_faceBones.nif from ZaZ Skeleton to NPCAssets in Data\Meshes\actors\character)
Is it right or something is wrong ? Also the load order should be Skeletal Adjustment, then ZaZ, then GSS, isnt it ?
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none. just drop in meshes / actors / character / characterasset - skeleton.nif from my link, and skeleton.hkx from the official skeleton package zaz zex. In the first link zaz with a knee fix, in the second, a knee fix with cbp bones from zaz. Then, without a mod with gender skeletons, you will have support for zex compatible bodies, like fg and bodytalk3, and a knee fix at the same time.

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2 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

image.png.67afdf68e8cbb90f02336afee2972c84.png

I'm gonna respectfully ask you remove this. You never asked permission and Even if you tried, the answer is no. I don't know why you think it's acceptable after you got a no from me the first time to do this, but it needs to stop. 

no problems. I didn’t know that the skeleton was also inviolable. Excuse me. I just met here in one of their branches, a knee fix for one of the previous versions of zaz, and I decided, mistakenly, that this is acceptable.

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11 hours ago, South8028 said:

no problems. I didn’t know that the skeleton was also inviolable. Excuse me. I just met here in one of their branches, a knee fix for one of the previous versions of zaz, and I decided, mistakenly, that this is acceptable.


Thank you - For future reference, please check the nexus pages or ask the author if you're unsure of permissions. There's a reason I don't allow this patch to exist. 

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1 hour ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:


Thank you - For future reference, please check the nexus pages or ask the author if you're unsure of permissions. There's a reason I don't allow this patch to exist. 

is it possible to fully debug a knee without crutches? If you insert a bone / bones (not a joint, but a fixed knot) and bind a new red zone to the knee by editing the adjacent weights ...

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The only real way to fix the knees without breaking the skeleton further for NPCs/Males is to fix the actual mesh itself, Skeleton tweaks will always have issues and breakages and It's not the best method to fixing that issue.


AS noted before: Fallout 4 is not designed to have gendered skeletons, breaks with a good amount of mods and animations, which is why the only route that will work in FO4 is an actual mesh fix. 
 

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31 minutes ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

The only real way to fix the knees without breaking the skeleton further for NPCs/Males is to fix the actual mesh itself, Skeleton tweaks will always have issues and breakages and It's not the best method to fixing that issue.


AS noted before: Fallout 4 is not designed to have gendered skeletons, breaks with a good amount of mods and animations, which is why the only route that will work in FO4 is an actual mesh fix. 
 

I say the same as you do. I'm talking about the grid. If you find a solution with such a block (although I still don't know where and how to embed it and how exactly to embed its zone into the mesh), then it will become just such a dedicated resource, supporting only those meshes that have this bone / bones. Just like your zaz has bones supporting male meshes and female ones. Separately. Not at all like a knee fix does. It is unlikely that this will have any effect on the animation. It will simply save the red part of the mesh from deformation according to the same principle as clothing, a knee pad, for example, does not deform. 

A much simpler method can be used with animation. Add the full body morph slider to animationData that is best suited to the scene, just like adding erection morphs. For example, tired of this contradiction between cbbe and fg, I made myself a versatile mesh that can be reshaped to any shape depending on the sex scene or support outfit / slider sets and all.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/14/2021 at 5:46 PM, South8028 said:

I say the same as you do. I'm talking about the grid. If you find a solution with such a block (although I still don't know where and how to embed it and how exactly to embed its zone into the mesh), then it will become just such a dedicated resource, supporting only those meshes that have this bone / bones. Just like your zaz has bones supporting male meshes and female ones. Separately. Not at all like a knee fix does. It is unlikely that this will have any effect on the animation. It will simply save the red part of the mesh from deformation according to the same principle as clothing, a knee pad, for example, does not deform. 

A much simpler method can be used with animation. Add the full body morph slider to animationData that is best suited to the scene, just like adding erection morphs. For example, tired of this contradiction between cbbe and fg, I made myself a versatile mesh that can be reshaped to any shape depending on the sex scene or support outfit / slider sets and all.



The Skeleton is gender neutral, which is what you're entirely missing. in Fallout, you CANNOT separate the skeleton by gender, it's not supported by havok (and has been shown to cause numerous issues) in this game unlike Skyrim. It's one skeleton for all Humanoids, Male, Female, Ghoul, Child. Everyone shares it. I remember earlier CBP version had issues where kids were jiggling due to using CBBE's version unlike ZeX cause CBP only read based on the bone name.

The ZaZ skeleton has bones for both sets of genitals, breasts, butt & etc, but they're not limited in any way to who can use them. You can weight paint the penis bones onto a female mesh, weight paint a vagina on males or give male chests 3 bone breast bounce. The only limitation is practical use by mod authors. There's not many mod authors who seem to be interested in the futa type content to do so, and similar for the opposite. 

As I said before, The best way to solve this issue is fixing the mesh directly instead of fucking with the skeleton and throwing extra mods at the game to fix one issue. That's a pointless waste of ESP slots, scripting resources and time for an issue that is easier fixed one specific way. 

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15 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:



The Skeleton is gender neutral, which is what you're entirely missing. in Fallout, you CANNOT separate the skeleton by gender, it's not supported by havok (and has been shown to cause numerous issues) in this game unlike Skyrim. It's one skeleton for all Humanoids, Male, Female, Ghoul, Child. Everyone shares it. I remember earlier CBP version had issues where kids were jiggling due to using CBBE's version unlike ZeX cause CBP only read based on the bone name.

The ZaZ skeleton has bones for both sets of genitals, breasts, butt & etc, but they're not limited in any way to who can use them. You can weight paint the penis bones onto a female mesh, weight paint a vagina on males or give male chests 3 bone breast bounce. The only limitation is practical use by mod authors. There's not many mod authors who seem to be interested in the futa type content to do so, and similar for the opposite. 

As I said before, The best way to solve this issue is fixing the mesh directly instead of fucking with the skeleton and throwing extra mods at the game to fix one issue. That's a pointless waste of ESP slots, scripting resources and time for an issue that is easier fixed one specific way. 

I fixed the mesh. Edited weights to give priority to the knee. One slider moves relative to the head and adapts to the scene the whole body, changing the shape, length and position of the legs, the width of the pelvis to suit the situation. + A set of sliders from cbbe, fg and custom, allowing you to quickly switch from fg to cbbe, customize clothes and copy weights. I think it's still worth increasing the number of vertices on the folds. I am happy with everything, except that the anus still needs to be done while it is not there, although the bones are working. )

you probably misunderstand me. Not surprisingly, I write through a translator. I meant knee bones that do not violate the hierarchy, do not require any additional esp, not tied to the male mesh. These bones are not in any separate skeleton, but in general, but male meshes are not attached to them and therefore these bones do not exist for them.

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/7/2021 at 1:35 PM, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

 

On 4/14/2021 at 2:46 PM, South8028 said:

tired of this contradiction between cbbe and fg, I made myself a versatile mesh that can be reshaped to any shape depending on the sex scene or support outfit / slider sets and all.


@TheBottomhoodofSteel If I understand this thread correctly, and I have only a limited knowledge of these skeleton + animation issues, someone has made a skeleton which greatly simplifies advanced modding.  Because, among the other things this skeleton does, it incorporates some (or is it all?) elements of your own creation, the Fusion Girl skeleton, you have caused it to be removed from this thread. 

In other words, you are preventing it's, the more compatible skeleton's, distribution.  Is that right?

 

On 4/13/2021 at 8:18 PM, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

I'm gonna respectfully ask you remove this.


These are serious limitations. In the short term, scrub users like myself won't have access to this important tool.  But also, if I have it right, you are effectively stopping other modders from making new and better things based on your work... which process is the whole point of modding.  

What I mean is, in the end, the whole game suffers. 

Overall mod development is slowed.  Your own work is used less, it's value becomes questionable, even counter-productive, and the whole AAF project is damaged.   It is now harder, not easier, for all the spunky kids to make their own dick-girl porn, or swimsuit player homes, or brothels is Sim Settlements 2, and so on.   

You may have a reason, but is it worth the cost to other people; to other projects, other modders and other users?

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13 hours ago, johnny_columbo said:

 


@TheBottomhoodofSteel If I understand this thread correctly, and I have only a limited knowledge of these skeleton + animation issues, someone has made a skeleton which greatly simplifies advanced modding.  Because, among the other things this skeleton does, it incorporates some (or is it all?) elements of your own creation, the Fusion Girl skeleton, you have caused it to be removed from this thread. 

In other words, you are preventing it's, the more compatible skeleton's, distribution.  Is that right?

 


These are serious limitations. In the short term, scrub users like myself won't have access to this important tool.  But also, if I have it right, you are effectively stopping other modders from making new and better things based on your work... which process is the whole point of modding.  

What I mean is, in the end, the whole game suffers. 

Overall mod development is slowed.  Your own work is used less, it's value becomes questionable, even counter-productive, and the whole AAF project is damaged.   It is now harder, not easier, for all the spunky kids to make their own dick-girl porn, or swimsuit player homes, or brothels is Sim Settlements 2, and so on.   

You may have a reason, but is it worth the cost to other people; to other projects, other modders and other users?

 

This Is So Sad Alexa Play Despacito | Know Your Meme

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