Weaknesses in Dwarven Automatons

[SmedleyDButler]

Actually having learned a bit more Dwemer lore since the last time this thread was around, Darkpig's more or less right. Partially, at minimum.

 

First off, Dwemer magic isn't really separate from Dwemer tech in the way we would think of it, they're all based on the same principle: Sound. Or as the lore refers to it as "Tonal". This means the tech can involve sounds we can't hear (subsonic, supersonic, intermittent, masked, etc.), and related principles like vibration, harmonics, etc. Steam may be used not just for pressure to do mechanical work, but "tonally" as in a whistle, steam organ, or calliope. It can even be a medium to vary the transmission of sound through air.

 

This also helps explain how somethings may still be working after so long: underground heat sources may have been set up to feed steam into static systems which produced specific sounds or combinations of sounds to keep various pieces of machinery running, and those machines are limited to "broadcast range".  Soul gems might be being used very unconventionally in the machines, perhaps tuned to act as "receivers", and perhaps when used in this way, soul gems do not deplete so quickly (or at all) or can be "recharged" "wirelessly" again using tonal magic.

 

Beth and the lore writers are deliberately vague on how tonal magic actually works of course. I doubt anyone has actually put together an actual definite "how Dwemer stuff works", even Michael Kirkbride. But we can always make specific conjectures for game purposes, perhaps about a single mechanism or type of mechanism.   

[Darkpig]

4 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

Actually having learned a bit more Dwemer lore since the last time this thread was around, Darkpig's more or less right. Partially, at minimum.

 

First off, Dwemer magic isn't really separate from Dwemer tech in the way we would think of it, they're all based on the same principle: Sound. Or as the lore refers to it as "Tonal". This means the tech can involve sounds we can't hear (subsonic, supersonic, intermittent, masked, etc.), and related principles like vibration, harmonics, etc. Steam may be used not just for pressure to do mechanical work, but "tonally" as in a whistle, steam organ, or calliope. It can even be a medium to vary the transmission of sound through air.

 

This also helps explain how somethings may still be working after so long: underground heat sources may have been set up to feed steam into static systems which produced specific sounds or combinations of sounds to keep various pieces of machinery running, and those machines are limited to "broadcast range".  Soul gems might be being used very unconventionally in the machines, perhaps tuned to act as "receivers", and perhaps when used in this way, soul gems do not deplete so quickly (or at all) or can be "recharged" "wirelessly" again using tonal magic.

 

Beth and the lore writers are deliberately vague on how tonal magic actually works of course. I doubt anyone has actually put together an actual definite "how Dwemer stuff works", even Michael Kirkbride. But we can always make specific conjectures for game purposes, perhaps about a single mechanism or type of mechanism.   

It was actually a steam pipe organ in the AHO Mod that inspired me to make this theory funny enough. I'm already working on a mod for a new weapon enchantment and even an alchemical coating(AKA poison) that takes the concept of disrupting the tonal magic damaging the automatons from the inside but it still feels like Bethesda could easily flip that theory on its head. But then again Zenimax said the lore is a crapshoot or something along those lines.

 

The idea of recharging soulgems is still weird. It kind of conflicts with the canon of handing souls over to the ideal masters for power. I'm going more along the idea that the dwemer use soul gems a "receiver" as you call it without handing the souls over to the ideal masters. Then again it depends on how long a soul gem can last with a soul just lingering inside. It reminds me of the Black Star quest.

[SmedleyDButler]

Yeah, the "recharging" idea is just me throwing out ideas - I'd agree it sounds less likely (or at least less elegant) than the Dwemer simply having found a way to use Soul Gems which depletes them very slowly, or even not at all (I'd like to say 'slowly', but w/e).

 

I suppose you could still use the "keeping charged/recharge" idea if you framed it properly, like saying the tonal sources in the architecture provide a "conduit" to "channel" a "connection" to the soul gems which "sustains" them. But only if you really liked that idea for some reason.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by SmedleyDButler

[Darkpig]

7 hours ago, SmedleyDButler said:

Yeah, the "recharging" idea is just me throwing out ideas - I'd agree it sounds less likely (or at least less elegant) than the Dwemer simply having found a way to use Soul Gems which depletes them very slowly, or even not at all (I'd like to say 'slowly', but w/e).

 

I suppose you could still use the "keeping charged/recharge" idea if you framed it properly, like saying the tonal sources in the architecture provide a "conduit" to "channel" a "connection" to the soul gems which "sustains" them. But only if you really liked that idea for some reason.

It is a possibility that most systems are spent sustaining the soulgem inside the machine as many dwemer aren't very active unless certain conditions are met. Then again the areas they are in are very clean and the lights seem to be working just fine. One theory I just thought up is that the automatons could trap souls of creatures themselves and use it to power other automatons. Now if they figured out how to use black soul gems that would be very creepy indeed. 

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

Sand.   Kinka think sand would fuck it up pretty good. 

[SmedleyDButler]

11 hours ago, Heroine HoneyCrotch said:

Sand.   Kinka think sand would fuck it up pretty good. 

 

Yeah, just pour it in the ghast tank!

[Darkpig]

On 10/3/2021 at 3:57 PM, SmedleyDButler said:

 

Yeah, just pour it in the ghast tank!

Ghast tank? Is that a combination of words between ghost and gas tank?

[donttouchmethere]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:38 PM, Heroine HoneyCrotch said:

Sand.   Kinka think sand would fuck it up pretty good. 

I had to post the obvious ?

Spoiler

 

 

[Thor2000]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:38 PM, Heroine HoneyCrotch said:

Sand.   Kinka think sand would fuck it up pretty good. 

We should make a "dust" spell then ?

[SmedleyDButler]

17 hours ago, Darkpig said:

Ghast tank? Is that a combination of words between ghost and gas tank?

 

 

Ghast is a D&D term for certain undead (it's also a floaty hellbeast in Minecraft), stolen from HP Lovecraft stories. Lovecraft may have picked it up as an old-tymey phrase, like 'geist' or 'haint'.

 

(but yes, I was also doing whatcha said. Double puns are twice as awful!)

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by SmedleyDButler

[Darkpig]

21 hours ago, Thor2000 said:

We should make a "dust" spell then ?

Making a spell that only affects dwemer mechanisms is easy but giving the spell a dust texture may be tricky as my asset making skills are near non-existent . Maybe I could use the ash spells from the dragonborn DLC to supplement a sand like affect to spells.

 

Or maybe I could hire the maid to do it?JK

[Thor2000]

4 hours ago, Darkpig said:

Making a spell that only affects dwemer mechanisms is easy but giving the spell a dust texture may be tricky as my asset making skills are near non-existent . Maybe I could use the ash spells from the dragonborn DLC to supplement a sand like affect to spells.

 

Or maybe I could hire the maid to do it?JK

I just remember this "dust" that comes from the ground when the giant does that, stomp attack (don't even know if that is what the attack is called). There's a lot of dust at least ?. I might give it a try. Would be fun to make some hardcore dwemer creatures where you actually need a special spell to be able to go down in those ruins. The dust spell could give the dwemer creatures some kind of malfunctioning symptoms like speed penalty or increased weakness for other magics.

 

Ok, now I'm on a rant, but remember that focusing crystal where you use heat and cool spells to focus it? I guess a extreme version of heat/cool spells would be perfect to destroy a mechanical being.

[Darkpig]

Here is an ESP using assets from dragonborn:

3PeePeeOhDoesNotLikeSand.esp

Yay on nay? Do note that the spell in its current form is mostly cosmetic and does not have any special dwarven hurting functionalities yet.

[Thor2000]

14 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Here is an ESP using assets from dragonborn:

3PeePeeOhDoesNotLikeSand.esp 1.1 kB · 0 downloads

Yay on nay? Do note that the spell in its current form is mostly cosmetic and does not have any special dwarven hurting functionalities yet.

You gotta love the name on that esp ?. Gonna try it out.

 

Edited: Works like a charm. May I use this if I credit you? Maybe I'll try to change the texture from perhaps grey to light brown or something

Edited October 8, 2021 by Thor2000

[Darkpig]

23 minutes ago, Thor2000 said:

You gotta love the name on that esp ?. Gonna try it out.

 

Edited: Works like a charm. May I use this if I credit you? Maybe I'll try to change the texture from perhaps grey to light brown or something

Go right ahead.