hilbo75 Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 theres a lot more talk about morality than id expect from a place like this lol i understand the legal reasons for not hosting mods on this website but also i dont give a shit about AAA corporations and their mountains of money. copyright laws are shit anyway. i dont give a shit about whether or not selling mods is "legal" because the only people who stand to be hurt by it have tons of cash anyway. they'll live lol.
DoYourBest Posted April 12, 2020 Author Posted April 12, 2020 Copy right laws aren't shit. Protect the actual artists from pirates profiting from their work, big or small artists. Cut the bs. Also, I'm going to make an example, for those slow that seem to not understand the point of this or want to keep not understanding it. Let's say modder A makes a mod: -He/she rips/reverse engineer the game files to extract various assets. A full character from videogame X. He/she gets this character inside his/her favorite 3D program. Edits what he/she sees fit. Puts a nude base mesh of his/her choice that he/she already had from another game ripped or made by another modder, ripped from another game, 'cause, let's be honest, making a base mesh takes time and I don't think these guys make theirs from scratch. OK, moving on. -He/she repacks this nude mod, adds 1st a skimpy bikini to it (again) ripped from another game or maybe modeled from scratch, addapts it into this game (note that everything done so far is against the EULA of two games already except the bikini if it was in fact made from scratch), attaches the COPYRIGHTED head, eyes, mouth, hair made by the development studio. Maybe adds/changes the make up, the hair color, whatever. Hair takes quite a lot of time to create, if you didn't know. So, moving on. -So, this modder ends up with a frankenstein, with ripped assets from two different games (the nude mesh from game B and the original head model from game A) and his/her own model, the sexy bikini. I haven't mentioned yet that for all of this to work, needs the original rig made by the dev team, unless the modder wants to edit it or create one from scratch. That rarely happens in games outside of the realm of Bethesda games. Moving on. -Now goes ahead and puts it on sale, asking other people NOT to re-sell, redistribute, re-upload, to NOT modify his/her mod. WHAT THE FUCK Develpment studio, doesn't recieve SHIT from this guy based on the sales made from this mod, even though the modder is using the base character for the mod and all the assets from the head model. Ok, let's say now modder B decides to make this: make a mod out of the mod from modder A! -So modder B goes ahead and repeats the process from modder A, changes the bikini to a different outfit and ends up putting on sale yet another mod. Surprise surprise! -Modder A doesn't recieve shit from modder B and doesn't give a fuck about modder A's whises. Why should him/her, modder A didn't ask for permission to company X to make a profit from his/her mods. How does this sound to you? Sounds good? Would be lovely if modders started to behave like total dicks eh? Stealing stuff from others and putting them on sale. See why not only it's illegal but a shitty thing to do? Ah.
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 13, 2020 Posted April 13, 2020 7 hours ago, JackWall said: @dup3w4sh1ngt0nI don't like repeating myself. You wanna know which mods I made? Check the thread. WHICH PART YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND? C_O_P_Y R_I_G_H_T Search that. Stop putting as an example Bethesda, they have a Creation Club Store ffs. THEY DO SELL MODS. Thing is, they get their cut because it's THEIR GAME. I'll say it again, you can't sell mods unless there's a EULA that allows it, or like in the case of Bethesda, there's a official store that allows it and the copyright owners get their cut. It's that fucking simple to understand... As you can see I keep talking in legal terms, I don't give a f about opinions or what people like or not. Selling mods without explicit permission from the publisher/developer is illegal. PERIOD. Nah man, you just sound mad. Pay or just learn how to mod yourself. It's not hard
DoYourBest Posted April 13, 2020 Author Posted April 13, 2020 @dup3w4sh1ngt0nYou are just proving how illetarete you are. Learn to read before posting. It's like trying to have a conversation with a troll. Ah, right.
MaidoLover Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 Unless someone sues them they will keep believing that the "mod" (they don't even seem to understand what the word, a "modification" means, ironically) is their "creation" (well it kinda is) and that they own it (well they do not obviously), so while I generally agree with you nothing will happen, because the parties that *could* put a stop to all of it aren't gonna do it because they fear the "backlash" of the "fans" (maybe not totally unfounded...) And also keep in mind that certain developers explicitly allow modifications of their games (I do not know if they also allow to sell modifications of their game's assets, but see above, that's a pandoras box they may not want to open) On the other hand you also have pubs decidedly being on war against mods (and therefore their customer base as well) See Square Enix and Capcom (the latter being especially anal about so called "cheat mods" in MHW) for example. Also keep in mind you're (most likely) talking to people who (partly) participate in these allegedly *illegal* activities (they in all likelihood also do not pay taxes ever) so of course the majority of them will disagree. On 4/12/2020 at 3:58 PM, dup3w4sh1ngt0n said: Bethesda Yup, that's the prime example people keep bringing up, ignoring that this is more an outlier than the norm, most pubs won't be happy about people (ab)using their -copyrighted- assets. Tho the above still applies, what are they gonna do, threatening legal action might very well also would threaten their very existence, tho there are exceptions like the mentioned Square Enix. Especially Japanese pubs absolutely hate this sort of thing, rest assured (see also Capcom and their current crusade against their very own, paying customers) On 4/11/2020 at 10:51 AM, dup3w4sh1ngt0n said: Patreon Also most likely illegal, because while you make a "donation", in fact you're actually buying things. There's no (easy) way to get it other than paying (aka "donating") If this was legal I wonder why shops around the world don't start, umm, giving away their goods for "donations" instead of "selling" them... would save them from paying taxes as well, no?
Saberguy Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 I feel like modding is one of those things that fall under a gray zone in terms of legality but I totally agree with the fact that if you rip something truly copyrighted and try to sell it as your own is wrong BUT, and correct me if I'm wrong, if I make something completely original for let's say Skyrim, then I am fully within my rights to sell it. Should you sell it is a whole another issue. And I believe EULA does not actually hold up in court in the EU for example. If you bought it, you own it because most games are sold under a perpetual license and that is one of the reasons second hand games and movies existed in the first place (DRM is trying to eliminate those though). I could be wrong here but that's how I've understood it. In post i noticed some people saying that patreon is not "technically" buying stuff and I kinda agree with that but it is still really scummy to gate stuff behind paywalls. I feel like modding should always be free and open to avoid issues like gaming companies finally lobbying against ALL modding or some such nonsense.
DoYourBest Posted April 16, 2020 Author Posted April 16, 2020 @SaberguyYou are confusing quite a lot of concepts. Buying something doesn't grant you complete ownership of the copyright. Sure, you own the game, but that doesn't give you a royalty free right to rip off assets from a game, repack them with different assets and sell it, aka, selling mods. As I said before, unless there's an EXPLICIT agreement between you and the owner of the copyright, which in most cases if not all, there isn't. What Bethesda does is sell mods on THEIR own store, by their own terms. Valve tried this on Steam with Skyrim and it was a clusterfuck. What these modders do on Patreon is a whole different story and there's no agreement. DRM has nothing to do with this, is a whole different conversation. Patreon is a grey arear, indeed, until goverments realise that website is a front to sell stuff without paying taxes. Why? Well, if it was trully donations, shouldn't you allow your content to be seen publicly? No, right? Because if you do that you stop getting paid... Ha!
Saberguy Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 2 hours ago, JackWall said: @SaberguyYou are confusing quite a lot of concepts. Buying something doesn't grant you complete ownership of the copyright. Sure, you own the game, but that doesn't give you a royalty free right to rip off assets from a game, repack them with different assets and sell it, aka, selling mods. As I said before, unless there's an EXPLICIT agreement between you and the owner of the copyright, which in most cases if not all, there isn't. What Bethesda does is sell mods on THEIR own store, by their own terms. Valve tried this on Steam with Skyrim and it was a clusterfuck. What these modders do on Patreon is a whole different story and there's no agreement. DRM has nothing to do with this, is a whole different conversation. Patreon is a grey arear, indeed, until goverments realise that website is a front to sell stuff without paying taxes. Why? Well, if it was trully donations, shouldn't you allow your content to be seen publicly? No, right? Because if you do that you stop getting paid... Ha! I was about to say that if you made the meshes and textures from scratch yourself THEN you could sell them but that got me thinking that you're still using their platform or IP (in this case Skyrim) to use the them so it is indeed illegal to sell them. Huh, the more you think about it the shiftier it becomes. The whole drm thing was just me ranting and accidentally getting off topic lol.
Blehbreh Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 A few things I'll mention here. First I'll start with the rig as op mentioned in his first post. The rig is indeed most likely copyrighted, and it isn't like paper. You paint an image on a piece of paper and then sell it because you purchased the paper and by purchasing it you technically have a license to use it any way you see fit. When we talk about something so complex as a model's rig, we're assuming it was made using a modeling program such as Autodesk MAYA, in this situation the program used to make the rig was the paper and not the rig itself. Second, I'll say that in most cases, selling a mod is illegal. It does indeed violate the EULA and there will eventually be consequences for the modding community as a whole if it continues. We'll eventually see more companies actively making it harder for modders to unpack and reverse engineer their models and textures, they may either invest millions of dollars to develop new types of encryption or some other company may start working to provide tools to help encrypt files and protect the intellectual property of the developers. All this would be caused by a small handful of modders who want to earn money for doing something that they actively chose to do instead of working an actual job. Third, cynicism aside, there's the community divided. During my time as a lurker here on LoversLab, I've seen a huge influx of arguments regarding paid mods, whether or not it should be tolerated, or whether it's fair or not. We as a community should remember our roots and our passion, remember the reason we love mods and love to make them. We didn't start for the reason of greed, we started out of the fire burning in our hearts to see our favorite game characters in the nude. We didn't need anyone to pay us to make it happen, we knew what we wanted and we went for it, when we were done we felt pride and we shared it with others. This is a community that I love and I want to see it keep thriving until the end of video games itself. We're doing the world a great service, and though some people may look down on us for it, we still keep going and achieving our dreams. We should be able to govern ourselves instead of forcing game companies to govern us.
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 8 hours ago, JackWall said: @SaberguyYou are confusing quite a lot of concepts. Buying something doesn't grant you complete ownership of the copyright. Sure, you own the game, but that doesn't give you a royalty free right to rip off assets from a game, repack them with different assets and sell it, aka, selling mods. As I said before, unless there's an EXPLICIT agreement between you and the owner of the copyright, which in most cases if not all, there isn't. What Bethesda does is sell mods on THEIR own store, by their own terms. Valve tried this on Steam with Skyrim and it was a clusterfuck. What these modders do on Patreon is a whole different story and there's no agreement. DRM has nothing to do with this, is a whole different conversation. Patreon is a grey arear, indeed, until goverments realise that website is a front to sell stuff without paying taxes. Why? Well, if it was trully donations, shouldn't you allow your content to be seen publicly? No, right? Because if you do that you stop getting paid... Ha! There you go again being misleading. The only reason the Valve mod store didn't work is because the code for the basis of the mod was written by Fores and there was a conflict of compensation and ownership rights (of the base code) because of that. It wasn't because there was some EULA violation. People were creating mods that had dependencies on free mods/ mod authors' work and that's why Bethesda ultimately decided to open up their own store to mitigate and moderate that. And you can see things publicly if they're not R18; you can literally go to Vtaw's patreon and see what they're working on.
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Blehbreh said: A few things I'll mention here. First I'll start with the rig as op mentioned in his first post. The rig is indeed most likely copyrighted, and it isn't like paper. You paint an image on a piece of paper and then sell it because you purchased the paper and by purchasing it you technically have a license to use it any way you see fit. When we talk about something so complex as a model's rig, we're assuming it was made using a modeling program such as Autodesk MAYA, in this situation the program used to make the rig was the paper and not the rig itself. Second, I'll say that in most cases, selling a mod is illegal. It does indeed violate the EULA and there will eventually be consequences for the modding community as a whole if it continues. We'll eventually see more companies actively making it harder for modders to unpack and reverse engineer their models and textures, they may either invest millions of dollars to develop new types of encryption or some other company may start working to provide tools to help encrypt files and protect the intellectual property of the developers. All this would be caused by a small handful of modders who want to earn money for doing something that they actively chose to do instead of working an actual job. Third, cynicism aside, there's the community divided. During my time as a lurker here on LoversLab, I've seen a huge influx of arguments regarding paid mods, whether or not it should be tolerated, or whether it's fair or not. We as a community should remember our roots and our passion, remember the reason we love mods and love to make them. We didn't start for the reason of greed, we started out of the fire burning in our hearts to see our favorite game characters in the nude. We didn't need anyone to pay us to make it happen, we knew what we wanted and we went for it, when we were done we felt pride and we shared it with others. This is a community that I love and I want to see it keep thriving until the end of video games itself. We're doing the world a great service, and though some people may look down on us for it, we still keep going and achieving our dreams. We should be able to govern ourselves instead of forcing game companies to govern us. It's not about "greed"; it's about being compensated for your time and turning a hobby into a revenue stream. You realize life has expenses, right? A lot of us are living on our own, with our own rents/mortgages, bills, and other hobbies that require money to pursue. Modeling and texturing are becoming that much more time-intensive due to the increased fidelity of modern games, which is only compounded by perpetually increasing costs of living and pay that does not scale linearly, meaning people are working more just to make ends meet. This, in turn, means less free-time, thus increasing the value of time spent on creating a mod. Because of that, people would naturally want more for their hard-work than likes or endorsements because of the opportunity cost. As a mod creator and an full fledged adult with hours of commute time, I understand why people "sell" their mods, and if that's their prerogative, let them be. Paywalls didn't stop me from learning how to do shit on my own, in fact, they encouraged me
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 5:33 PM, MaidoLover said: Unless someone sues them they will keep believing that the "mod" (they don't even seem to understand what the word, a "modification" means, ironically) is their "creation" (well it kinda is) and that they own it (well they do not obviously), so while I generally agree with you nothing will happen, because the parties that *could* put a stop to all of it aren't gonna do it because they fear the "backlash" of the "fans" (maybe not totally unfounded...) And also keep in mind that certain developers explicitly allow modifications of their games (I do not know if they also allow to sell modifications of their game's assets, but see above, that's a pandoras box they may not want to open) On the other hand you also have pubs decidedly being on war against mods (and therefore their customer base as well) See Square Enix and Capcom (the latter being especially anal about so called "cheat mods" in MHW) for example. Also keep in mind you're (most likely) talking to people who (partly) participate in these allegedly *illegal* activities (they in all likelihood also do not pay taxes ever) so of course the majority of them will disagree. Yup, that's the prime example people keep bringing up, ignoring that this is more an outlier than the norm, most pubs won't be happy about people (ab)using their -copyrighted- assets. Tho the above still applies, what are they gonna do, threatening legal action might very well also would threaten their very existence, tho there are exceptions like the mentioned Square Enix. Especially Japanese pubs absolutely hate this sort of thing, rest assured (see also Capcom and their current crusade against their very own, paying customers) Also most likely illegal, because while you make a "donation", in fact you're actually buying things. There's no (easy) way to get it other than paying (aka "donating") If this was legal I wonder why shops around the world don't start, umm, giving away their goods for "donations" instead of "selling" them... would save them from paying taxes as well, no? As for the Japanese, that's a cultural thing rooted in pride, and in some cases greed, as with Team Ninja and DOA5. Team Ninja was hesitant to release DOA5 on PC because they knew people would figure out how to mod it and create user generated content that would threaten their own plans to release DLC. When they did release DLC, it was exorbitantly priced, with clothing packs sometimes costing close to 2 or 3 times as much as the base game, which made no logical sense. It was so negatively received that they made the game free to play, still charging for the additional add-ons, but making it so that new people wouldn't have to pay for the base game. And Bethesda's not an outlier. It's really only the Japanese who tend to get upset. When Sunset Overdrive came to PC, a group of ambassadors from the dev team took to reddit and there were talks of a dev kit to be released for the game so people could mod it. While it never (to my knowledge) materialized, they were receptive to the idea. Same with Volition during Saints Rows 3 and 4, but they actually released some lite tools. Lack of vertical integration can affect tool releases, as well as the finished games not being made robust enough from the ground up to be modded. That's why Bethesda can release nearly full dev kits because they own mostly all of the stuff that goes into their games or it's non-proprietary like Papyrus. There's a total difference in scale we're talking about, so your point about stores and "donations" is a false equivalency. We're talking about max, like $5000 a year for a mod author who consistently puts out work for a WHOLE YEAR for a popular game. Unless we're talking Vtaw and an ever-living moddable game like Bethesda titles, a mod author won't be able to sustain that level of patronage for long. When we're talking companies and budgets, no one is going to lose sleep over $5000; the money these mod authors are making is so infinitesimal compared to how much money is actually made from the game, its DLCs, and its merch.
ヴィヴ・ラ・フランス！ Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 I still remember how people fighted against the plan of paid mods proposed by Bethesda on 2015, but now so many guys turn to defend it? You can see how corrupt the community has become in these years! What a shame! It's never a problem of how much effort they have made, but a problem of legality. There is very very few pepole who make the mods all by themselves. Almost all of those paid modders use the assets from other modders and plagiarize the design from other games, then some of you guys say that they have the right to sell them? How ridiculous it is! If they can charge for their "mods", why other authors can't? If I'm the author of skse, bodyslide, or FNIS like that, why don't I charge at least $100 for each person considering of the importance of my mod? Then in the end the whole mod communty will be destroyed!!! And I believe most people must have never looked at the permission section of each mod on nexus. Most modders DON"T ALLOW THEIR MODS TO BE USED AS ASSETS OF PAID MODS, including those most essential mods like this: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/articles/1249 I think more people should be aware of this. P.S: Patreon is definitely playing a disgraceful role in this. There are so many copyright infringements on this site, but they keep indulging them alive. For me, I'd rather these greedy guys quit modding than continue breaking the rule of community.
DoYourBest Posted April 17, 2020 Author Posted April 17, 2020 @minaselda@BlehbrehVery well said. @arc037461Maybe that schematic helps the slow ones lol
Blehbreh Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, dup3w4sh1ngt0n said: It's not about "greed"; it's about being compensated for your time and turning a hobby into a revenue stream. You realize life has expenses, right? A lot of us are living on our own, with our own rents/mortgages, bills, and other hobbies that require money to pursue. Modeling and texturing are becoming that much more time-intensive due to the increased fidelity of modern games, which is only compounded by perpetually increasing costs of living and pay that does not scale linearly, meaning people are working more just to make ends meet. This, in turn, means less free-time, thus increasing the value of time spent on creating a mod. Because of that, people would naturally want more for their hard-work than likes or endorsements because of the opportunity cost. As a mod creator and an full fledged adult with hours of commute time, I understand why people "sell" their mods, and if that's their prerogative, let them be. Paywalls didn't stop me from learning how to do shit on my own, in fact, they encouraged me No one wants to stop artists from turning a profit on their hobbies, it's when it's done illegally and drawing negative attention to the community all the while that people are having a problem with. Sure life has expenses, time itself is a type of currency. These kinds of modders shouldn't waste time on something and ask people to compensate them for their wasted time. Maybe they should work on making their own projects that aren't built off the back of some other developer's hard work and sell that to someone.
MaidoLover Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, dup3w4sh1ngt0n said: $5000 a year Heh, you seem to know very well... The point you're missing it's illegal in most cases And so is patreon with their "donations"... (likely goes for NEXUS too btw who have a very similar system in place, with the difference that the donations are actually donations because they are voluntary, I still question the tax situation and legality of taking money for work you have no official rights on and is based on other people's work)
DoYourBest Posted April 17, 2020 Author Posted April 17, 2020 @MaidoLoverNexus is another matter. The amount of money you can make out of downloads is so small that the best you can get is something like a game key for a game that has been in the market for 5 years maybe? Is not really valuable. Is more like a token of appreciation more than a profit. 30k points in there are the equivalent to 30$ or so? And it takes MONTHS to get there, like maybe 2k-3k points every month, unless you release a mod such as FNIS or something like that, then you probably get a lot more points. But then again, is pocket money and they are actual DONATIONS, since your mod is public. You CAN'T sell mods on the Nexus because, as we have discussed, is illegal. You also are free to donate those points to a charity, for example. I'm sure these idiotic modders from Patreon use the money they make to donate to NGO's... Worth mentioning as well, LoversLab has a Patreon but its sole purpose is to maintain the site. Those that support it only get ads removed, period. So then again, LoversLab is NOT selling their mods either, because AGAIN, it's illegal and I'm sure the staff know it too.
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Blehbreh said: No one wants to stop artists from turning a profit on their hobbies, it's when it's done illegally and drawing negative attention to the community all the while that people are having a problem with. Sure life has expenses, time itself is a type of currency. These kinds of modders shouldn't waste time on something and ask people to compensate them for their wasted time. Maybe they should work on making their own projects that aren't built off the back of some other developer's hard work and sell that to someone. "bUiLt On tHe BaCkS oF DeVeLoPeR's HaRd WoRk", please spare me. Again, symbiotic relationship. Publishers sell the game and the modders keep sales going well beyond the game's natural shelf-life. You guys are blowing this way out of proportion, and none of you appear to be mod authors who have made something from scratch, which is telling
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 13 hours ago, MaidoLover said: Heh, you seem to know very well... The point you're missing it's illegal in most cases And so is patreon with their "donations"... (likely goes for NEXUS too btw who have a very similar system in place, with the difference that the donations are actually donations because they are voluntary, I still question the tax situation and legality of taking money for work you have no official rights on and is based on other people's work) If Patreon were "Illegal", I'm sure it would have been shut down by now. Patreon donations are also voluntary; you're not forced to subscribe to anyone. and I don't know, I just gave a likely ballpark number on the HIGH end for someone who creates popular mods for a popular game.
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 13 hours ago, JackWall said: @minaselda@BlehbrehVery well said. @arc037461Maybe that schematic helps the slow ones lol actually make something before calling others "slow"
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 14 hours ago, minaselda said: I still remember how people fighted against the plan of paid mods proposed by Bethesda on 2015, but now so many guys turn to defend it? You can see how corrupt the community has become in these years! What a shame! It's never a problem of how much effort they have made, but a problem of legality. There is very very few pepole who make the mods all by themselves. Almost all of those paid modders use the assets from other modders and plagiarize the design from other games, then some of you guys say that they have the right to sell them? How ridiculous it is! If they can charge for their "mods", why other authors can't? If I'm the author of skse, bodyslide, or FNIS like that, why don't I charge at least $100 for each person considering of the importance of my mod? Then in the end the whole mod communty will be destroyed!!! And I believe most people must have never looked at the permission section of each mod on nexus. Most modders DON"T ALLOW THEIR MODS TO BE USED AS ASSETS OF PAID MODS, including those most essential mods like this: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/articles/1249 I think more people should be aware of this. P.S: Patreon is definitely playing a disgraceful role in this. There are so many copyright infringements on this site, but they keep indulging them alive. For me, I'd rather these greedy guys quit modding than continue breaking the rule of community. As I've stated earlier, even if the assets aren't created by the mod author, you're still paying for the service via donations. Nothing is stopping YOU, the user, from learning how to create from scratch, port, code, or do whatever YOU want to see in-game. I used to be a lurker with no experience modeling. Due to my interest in 3D rendering and growing displeasure with not contributing anything, I taught myself how to model in Blender and how to create textures in GIMP. I researched how to bring them into Fallout 4, how to use materials, and how to make them swappable in-game without paying anyone. Whenever I want to see something, I make it. It's simple as that. Let mod authors make their coin. No one is stopping you from doing things on your own; what they do has NO effect on you.
Saberguy Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, dup3w4sh1ngt0n said: As I've stated earlier, even if the assets aren't created by the mod author, you're still paying for the service via donations. Nothing is stopping YOU, the user, from learning how to create from scratch, port, code, or do whatever YOU want to see in-game. I used to be a lurker with no experience modeling. Due to my interest in 3D rendering and growing displeasure with not contributing anything, I taught myself how to model in Blender and how to create textures in GIMP. I researched how to bring them into Fallout 4, how to use materials, and how to make them swappable in-game without paying anyone. Whenever I want to see something, I make it. It's simple as that. Let mod authors make their coin. No one is stopping you from doing things on your own; what they do has NO effect on you. I mean, I definitely don't mean to sound like an asshole here, but PAYING is the word is that messes everything up. Imagine you made something for Skyrim (like Enderal for example.) and you said "Hey, if you want to play this thing you gotta pay me money!" Bethesda wouldn't take that very well. They'd shut you down pretty quick don't you think? The same thing applies to general modding as well. If you want to make money from a hobby you do, I'd suggest you look for a hobby that does not require you to infringe on an already existing IP. That or negotiate with Bethesda themselves about licensing their engine and assets.
dup3w4sh1ngt0n Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, Saberguy said: I mean, I definitely don't mean to sound like an asshole here, but PAYING is the word is that messes everything up. Imagine you made something for Skyrim (like Enderal for example.) and you said "Hey, if you want to play this thing you gotta pay me money!" Bethesda wouldn't take that very well. They'd shut you down pretty quick don't you think? The same thing applies to general modding as well. If you want to make money from a hobby you do, I'd suggest you look for a hobby that does not require you to infringe on an already existing IP. That or negotiate with Bethesda themselves about licensing their engine and assets. So, I have a serious question for everyone in this thread. If I create a model with textures that just happens to be made with a body-type in mind and sell access to that mesh and textures via Patreon donations (or directly via storefronts like ArtStation), do you have a problem with that? Like, an unweighted resource? Because, if not, why are we even having this conversation. Enderal's different because they literally made an ENTIRELY NEW GAME with many re-used MESH and SCRIPT assets (which are re-usable beyond Skyrim's engine, thus making their redistribution for profit problematic because you didn't write that code or make those meshes/textures), as well as their engine. There's no ambiguity there because Bethesda is vertically integrated, meaning they actually own their engine, unlike Devs who use Unity or UE4. Again, a skeleton and its weights are not immediately transferable like meshes, textures and code; OP is trying to conflate game-specific proprietary information and a general set of items that have boundless applications. Vtaw or Jmenaru can sell the clothing items they make on the Unity/UE4/ArtStation/TurboSquid storefronts, they just decided to import them into FO4. This should be a non-issue.
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