Feminism, Music and Tears

[ChancellorKremlin]

In no particular order.

 

Don't really know where I'm going with this either.

 

Anyway, generally when it comes to listening (and being part of) popular modern music, I'm woefully dysfunctional. I tend to listen to stuff "on my own" months or even years after it has been released, and at my own pace. So inevitably it happens that I really like a song, and well, the world has moved on.

 

At any rate, this means I not only end up being left behind, but that generally I find songs at my own rate, which I like (I'm not listening to something just because everybody else is) and also because I can appreciate a song without any pressure. I quite tend to like this, even if people (and my girlfriend) tend to find it a bit odd. Anyway, cutting to the chase, my GF recently introduced me to Florence + the machine.

 

I was like "Yeah, that's pretty cool" and listed to some of her songs. I then came across this particular song, which I knew was famous because I remembered it from the back of my head, and instantly fell in love with it:

 

 

[video=youtube]

 

 

The fact this came out march last year and only now I'm listening to it gives a good indication of how little I tend to care for popular music. I don't generally watch the video or actually pay attention to the lyrics, but just concentrate on the beat and the melody.

 

This time though, I paid attention and found it quite sad. I then discovered that the song is supposed to be about the suicide of Virginia Woolf, a prominent 20th century English writer and modernist, whom out of love for her husband and clinical depression committed suicide by drowning herself in a river. For reference, these are the lyrics:

 

 

"Never Let Me Go"

 

Looking up from underneath

Fractured moonlight on the sea

Reflections still look the same to me

As before I went under

 

And it's peaceful in the deep

Cathedral where you cannot breathe

No need to pray, no need to speak

Now I am under all

 

And it's breaking over me

A thousand miles down to the sea bed

Found the place to rest my head

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

 

And the arms of the ocean are carrying me

And all this devotion was rushing out of me

In the crushes of heaven for a sinner like me

But the arms of the ocean delivered me

 

Though the pressure's hard to take

It's the only way I can escape

It seems a heavy choice to make

And now I am under all

 

And it's breaking over me

A thousand miles down to the sea bed

Found the place to rest my head

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

 

And the arms of the ocean are carrying me

And all this devotion was rushing out of me

In the crushes of heaven for a sinner like me

But the arms of the ocean delivered me

 

And it's over

And I'm going under

But I'm not giving up

I'm just giving in

 

I'm slipping underneath

So cold and so sweet

 

And the arms of the ocean so sweet and so cold

And all this devotion I never knew at all

In the crushes of heaven for a sinner released

And the arms of the ocean delivered me

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Deliver me

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Deliver me

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Deliver me

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

Never let me go

 

And it's over

(Never let me go, Never let me go)

And I'm going under

(Never let me go, Never let me go)

But I'm not giving up

(Never let me go, Never let me go)

I'm just giving in

(Never let me go, Never let me go)

 

I'm slipping underneath

(Never let me go, Never let me go)

So cold and so sweet

(Never let me go, Never let me go)

 

 

And then, just the icing on the cake of my misery, I came across her suicide letter addressed to her husband: (which I read while listening to the song!)

 

 

Dearest, I feel certain that I am going mad again. I feel we can't go through another of those terrible times. And I shan't recover this time. I begin to hear voices, and I can't concentrate. So I am doing what seems the best thing to do. You have given me the greatest possible happiness. You have been in every way all that anyone could be. I don't think two people could have been happier 'til this terrible disease came. I can't fight any longer. I know that I am spoiling your life, that without me you could work. And you will I know. You see I can't even write this properly. I can't read. What I want to say is I owe all the happiness of my life to you. You have been entirely patient with me and incredibly good. I want to say that—everybody knows it. If anybody could have saved me it would have been you. Everything has gone from me but the certainty of your goodness. I can't go on spoiling your life any longer. I don't think two people could have been happier than we have been. V.

 

 

Now, it may be because I was half way through a bottle of Pinot Grigio, but holy crap man that made my eyes water. Fuck it, I cried. It usually takes a bit to make me emotional, but that was just too much. Fucking hell, did Florence and Paul (the songwriters) nail those lyrics.

 

I then found myself wondering why so many prominent female authors, modernists and feminists that I admired found themselves dying horrible and lonely deaths. Take Jane Austen for example, who died at the early age of 41 from either tuberculosis, Hodgkin's lymphoma or Addison's disease. I can't help but be drawn by the style, elegance and temperance of early to mid modern feminists and authors.

 

By contrast, I've been reading (well, read passages of, introduced to by my gf) Caitlin Moran's "How to be a woman" and while she is no doubt quite tame by comparison to most "feminists" I've come across, what she writes is still really crass and on the nose in my opinion. There is no moderation these days, no sense of shades of grey (no, not the book!) or anything. It is either white or black, you are either with us or against us. In my time at uni, I learned both that whenever a man looks a woman in the street, he is "automatically honing his predatory instincts and is a rapist waiting to emerge" and that "all men, without exception, are to one extent or another chauvinist bigots, some of which are more adept at hiding it than others."

 

I can't help but think that if I put some of those individuals beside a taliban fanatic, they would have a lot to share before eventually murdering one another. I can't help but think neither Jane Austen nor Virginia Woolf hated men as much as some of these wackos do. Hell, Woolf's suicide letter couldn't be more praising of her husband.

 

Now, I'm not saying this is the modern face of today's feminist movement, nor that I equate these lunatics to the female voice. I'm just saying, it is quite hard these days to find any decent, moderate and forward thinking critiques and literature that I can engage with.

 

So in that vein, if anybody has any decent modern feminist critiques or literature they'd be interested in pointing me towards, I would be grateful. Moderate preferably, or at least not hate-driven.

[gregathit]

Well, I'll have to ask my sister about some "strong women" authors as I don't have the slightest clue. Notice I avoided using the word "feminist" as that has basically been tarnished by the hate filled whack jobs.

 

It is sad that such a tiny minority of haters have tainted what I think is a necessary movement. They may even have completely set the whole movement back 20 years with their ridiculous rhetoric. Sad that this kind of thing happens when members of a critical movement end up sabotaging things, but that is just part of life.

 

The suicide deals are indeed heartbreaking. The sad part is that those tortured souls are their own jailors and torturers. Depression (unless genetically inherited of course) is self inflicted. For those that don't have a chemical imbalance it can be overcome with the proper mindset and encouragement\support from others. Their self deluded psychosis ends up causing massive amounts of hurt to those they supposedly are "saving". I can't really understand how the woman in that letter thinks she is helping the husband that dearly loves her by ending her life. Talk about a swift kick in the dad's bag instead of a kiss.

 

If those so called "feminists" would spend less time running men down (like they are any better than those they condemn) and instead helping hurting women, you would truly see an explosion of progress in the movement for the benefit of all women and men too as we benefit by having self secure, strong women, not even going into the massive benefit to children.

 

 

As to the BS about all men are rapists.....total hater Bullshit. I have never raped anyone and never will. Matter of fact, if I catch any jackass that is trying to rape a woman he will regret it the rest of his very short existence. The retarded ridiculousness of the "all men are rapists" statement is akin to saying "all women are gold diggers". Both statements are just plain bullshit. With upchuck sauce and diarrhea sprinkles on top.

 

 

Disclaimer: Men ARE as screwed up as women, so don't read any nonsense into my post that isn't there. I am not holding men up as any kind of standard here. We have our own battles to fight thank you very much......

[leddis3]

I strongly dislike how many associate feminism with extremist whackjobs.

I am a feminist, and I certainly don't think all men are witless, inferior or predatory rapists in the making.

 

As with anything, extremism is the problem, and unfortunately a lot of extremists call themselves feminists then spew hate filled crap just as people did in the civil rights movement for black people and so on.

In any case, anybody who discriminates or belittles someone just because of their gender is an asshole, male or female.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Right, I'm going to ask people to read my actual post before this degenerates into yet another feminist debate. I'm not interested in that. I've made a request, and I'm discussing more than feminism in my OP.

 

I'd ask people to at least reference some of it before posting here, otherwise this thread is just going to get hijacked.

 

Thanks.

[polluxval]

this cases are particularly delicate as there are many points of view. some will pretend they dont care, others that they really care, etc. some woman get used to live with it and learn how to overcome it or they adapt. but when you combine some "talents", wich i mean, having enough brain and common sense, you have to carry this kind of burdens. i dont have much word on this as im not a woman, but im a writer, so i read a lot and listen to peoples life a lot, so i can understand, at some point atleast.

 

anyway, in the end, whatever people say, it takes a lot of courage to commit suicide. i bet most of us couldnt do it.

[DasVonAlbatross]

I'm kinda a feminist, but I don't have any structured shit to say on the point. I do, though, have music. And since you posted pretty sad music in the OP, I'll do the same.

 

 

[video=youtube]

 

 

[Nonsense667]

In my opinion, your best source of equalist thinking is yourself. (So I'm assuming it could be the same for "feminist" thinking, whatever your definition of that is, I dunno, I'm not one. Equalist. ) I know it is for me, and, with that, others you surround yourself with, be it in real life or online. At least that has been my experience. Surround yourself with this wealth, this variety of people, and see them for the individuals they are, it's really impossible to see people as anything other than their own self, not defined by their gender in any way. And yeah, thank you for saying exactly what I always say. Life isn't so black and white, so simple, so easily defined. It's made up of a multitude of shades of grey, and innumerable complex webs and branches, and how fucking awesome is that?

[ChancellorKremlin]

I'm kinda a feminist' date=' but I don't have any structured shit to say on the point. I do, though, have music. And since you posted pretty sad music in the OP, I'll do the same.

 

 

[video=youtube']

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing, that was pretty beautiful.

 

In my opinion' date=' your best source of equalist thinking is yourself. (So I'm assuming it could be the same for "feminist" thinking, whatever your definition of that is, I dunno, I'm not one. Equalist. ) I know it is for me, and, with that, others you surround yourself with, be it in real life or online. At least that has been my experience. Surround yourself with this wealth, this variety of people, and see them for the individuals they are, it's really impossible to see people as anything other than their own self, not defined by their gender in any way. And yeah, thank you for saying exactly what I always say. Life isn't so black and white, so simple, so easily defined. It's made up of a multitude of shades of grey, and innumerable complex webs and branches, and how fucking awesome is that?

[/quote']

 

I agree. Diversity is key I believe. I think it all boils down to choice, and freedom of choice. If both sexes are afforded those freedoms - what else remains?

 

In any case, like I said, I'm still searching for some decent literature. I've given up on Kaitlin Moran because she is just too inconsistent and erratic, especially towards the mid to late chapters of her book.

[Dude500X]

Two types of feminists.

 

The whack jobs who hate men and the ones who want a fair shake.

 

If you cant tell the difference you're an idiot or a sexist male.

 

Women who want to get an equal wage and women who want to have a fair playing ground in work are the real feminists.. the ones who protest against real injustices against women.  

 

The ones who try keep fathers away from their kids out of spite and who make sweeping statements about men in the broadest sense are the bad ones.  Watch Maury for those sort of women.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZdsYcWH0kU  thats the kind of feminist you want to avoid.. watch..

 

I can honestly say I'd rather date a feminist woman than a non-feminist one, dont know what interests men in women who are subservient drones.

 

And on the subject of music.. women sing better than men by far.

[ChancellorKremlin]

So I went ahead and watched this video, which was pretty awesome...
 

 
Really well made and put together and all that. And then I decided to read the actual letter by Sullivan Ballou to his wife Sarah, (which the extracts of this video are based on) to, I might add, Gortoz A Ran by Denez Prigent, which is also the song that plays on the video, also known as the Black Hawk Down theme...
 

 

July the 14th, 1861

Washington D.C.

My very dear Sarah:

The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few days—perhaps tomorrow. Lest I should not be able to write you again, I feel impelled to write lines that may fall under your eye when I shall be no more.

Our movement may be one of a few days duration and full of pleasure—and it may be one of severe conflict and death to me. Not my will, but thine O God, be done. If it is necessary that I should fall on the battlefield for my country, I am ready. I have no misgivings about, or lack of confidence in, the cause in which I am engaged, and my courage does not halt or falter. I know how strongly American Civilization now leans upon the triumph of the Government, and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and suffering of the Revolution. And I am willing—perfectly willing—to lay down all my joys in this life, to help maintain this Government, and to pay that debt.

But, my dear wife, when I know that with my own joys I lay down nearly all of yours, and replace them in this life with cares and sorrows—when, after having eaten for long years the bitter fruit of orphanage myself, I must offer it as their only sustenance to my dear little children—is it weak or dishonorable, while the banner of my purpose floats calmly and proudly in the breeze, that my unbounded love for you, my darling wife and children, should struggle in fierce, though useless, contest with my love of country.

Sarah, my love for you is deathless, it seems to bind me to you with mighty cables that nothing but Omnipotence could break; and yet my love of Country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me irresistibly on with all these chains to the battlefield.

The memories of the blissful moments I have spent with you come creeping over me, and I feel most gratified to God and to you that I have enjoyed them so long. And hard it is for me to give them up and burn to ashes the hopes of future years, when God willing, we might still have lived and loved together and seen our sons grow up to honorable manhood around us. I have, I know, but few and small claims upon Divine Providence, but something whispers to me—perhaps it is the wafted prayer of my little Edgar—that I shall return to my loved ones unharmed. If I do not, my dear Sarah, never forget how much I love you, and when my last breath escapes me on the battlefield, it will whisper your name.

Forgive my many faults, and the many pains I have caused you. How thoughtless and foolish I have often been! How gladly would I wash out with my tears every little spot upon your happiness, and struggle with all the misfortune of this world, to shield you and my children from harm. But I cannot. I must watch you from the spirit land and hover near you, while you buffet the storms with your precious little freight, and wait with sad patience till we meet to part no more.

But, O Sarah! If the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they loved, I shall always be near you; in the brightest day and in the darkest night—amidst your happiest scenes and gloomiest hours—always, always; and if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek, it shall be my breath; or the cool air fans your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit passing by.

Sarah, do not mourn me dead; think I am gone and wait for me, for we shall meet again.

As for my little boys, they will grow as I have done, and never know a father's love and care. Little Willie is too young to remember me long, and my blue-eyed Edgar will keep my frolics with him among the dimmest memories of his childhood. Sarah, I have unlimited confidence in your maternal care and your development of their characters. Tell my two mothers his and hers I call God's blessing upon them. O Sarah, I wait for you there!

Come to me, and lead thither my children.

Sullivan

 

Yeah, that is some sad, sad shit. Hopefully I'll write something equally as eloquent when I decide to buy the farm, though I seriously doubt it.

[polluxval]

this entire thread gave me some new ideas for my book. nice.

[Emily]

Let's go girls.

 

[video=youtube]

Let's go girls! Come on.



I'm going out tonight-I'm feelin' alright

Gonna let it all hang out

Wanna make some noise-really raise my voice

Yeah, I wanna scream and shout

No inhibitions-make no conditions

Get a little outta line

I ain't gonna act politically correct

I only wanna have a good time



The best thing about being a woman

Is the prerogative to have a little fun



Oh, oh, oh, go totally crazy-forget I'm a lady

Men's shirts-short skirts

Oh, oh, oh, really go wild-yeah, doin' it in style

Oh, oh, oh, get in the action-feel the attraction

Color my hair-do what I dare

Oh, oh, oh, I wanna be free-yeah, to feel the way I feel

Man! I feel like a woman!



The girls need a break-tonight we're gonna take

The chance to get out on the town

We don't need romance-we only wanna dance

We're gonna let our hair hang down



The best thing about being a woman

Is the prerogative to have a little fun



Oh, oh, oh, go totally crazy-forget I'm a lady

Men's shirts-short skirts

Oh, oh, oh, really go wild-yeah, doin' it in style

Oh, oh, oh, get in the action-feel the attraction

Color my hair-do what I dare

Oh, oh, oh, I wanna be free-yeah, to feel the way I feel

Man! I feel like a woman!



The best thing about being a woman

Is the prerogative to have a little fun (fun, fun)



Oh, oh, oh, go totally crazy-forget I'm a lady

Men's shirts-short skirts

Oh, oh, oh, really go wild-yeah, doin' it in style

Oh, oh, oh, get in the action-feel the attraction

Color my hair-do what I dare

Oh, oh, oh, I wanna be free-yeah, to feel the way I feel

Man! I feel like a woman!



I get totally crazy

Can you feel it

Come, come, come on baby

I feel like a woman

[ChancellorKremlin]

And while we're on the subject...