fallout as a whole and immersion

[sammythesquirrel]

Bit of a rant . I have never been able to immerse my self in any fallout game due to lack of realism. almost everything about them screams bs from the vaults not having any food growing facilities(that ive seen) to the size of the insects(not even radiation can account for 4ft long ants in that environment). Then there is dlc like gun runners because yeah 200 years after a NUCLEAR WAR a group of SCAVENGERS found a stockpile of weapons that were in PERFECT condition and then suddenly they knew how to replicate said guns PERFECTLY AND make additions that IMPROVE said guns because they SOOOO have the tools and skills to do it. the list goes on....

 

so now I want to know what are some the things about fallout that you find to be unrealistic and or break your immersion

[Halstrom]

Bit of a rant . I have never been able to immerse my self in any fallout game due to lack of realism. almost everything about them screams bs from the vaults not having any food growing facilities(that ive seen) to the size of the insects(not even radiation can account for 4ft long ants in that environment). Then there is dlc like gun runners because yeah 200 years after a NUCLEAR WAR a group of SCAVENGERS found a stockpile of weapons that were in PERFECT condition and then suddenly they knew how to replicate said guns PERFECTLY AND make additions that IMPROVE said guns because they SOOOO have the tools and skills to do it. the list goes on....

 

so now I want to know what are some the things about fallout that you find to be unrealistic and or break your immersion

Roads AND Flying Cars?

[sammythesquirrel]

well the roads are technically just leftovers from WW2 when cars still had wheels plus they still serve as travel routes much like how aircraft are required to use certain paths but yeah flying cars +roads= dumb

[Guest user29]

I don't find it any more difficult to believe than TES for instance with all it's magic and demons.

[DoctaSax]

I think it's a safe bet to assume the cars didn't fly. It's just that 200 years after the nuclear apocalypse, the car wrecks don't have any wheels anymore.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Yeah, if you look at the cars, all of them had axels where the wheels would have been.

 

Also, the Fallout universe operates according to the principles of SCIENCE! and not science as we understand it. SCIENCE! is basically a pseudo-scientific notion very popular in the fifties (especially comics) that existed at a time when the effects of radiation where not yet fully understood.

 

It was assumed radiation (and nuclear power) could both create and resolve a great many issues and advancements in human history, like miniature power sources, mutations, advanced weaponry and so forth. That is the reasoning behind Fallout's world, it is our science, only a bit stretched.

 

In regards to vaults and food, I think there are a lot of levels with sealed doors that basically make the vaults seem a lot bigger than they actually are, and hint that there are perhaps other areas that did have facilities for that sort of thing. Also, vaults are meant to house thousands of people, not just the dozens depicted in the game. Again, the [inaccessible] and [Locked] doors are meant to give the impression of other levels.

 

One aspect I think FNV really outdid FO3 was in the verisimilitude department. FNV has farms, wells, a lake, streams, a more or less believable economy... etc. FO3 really did require suspension of disbelief entirely outside the FO universe to see how the Capital Wasteland operated.

[KainsChylde]

Gun runners didn't just "find a stockpile of perfectly preserved guns and figure out how to reproduce them". According to lore, Gun Runners either was originally a pre war gun manufacturer or set up shop in a pre war gun factory. From there they already had or had access to gun making facilities and schematics. And who said they instantly had the ability to reproduce and improve them? Gun runners got their start prior to FO1, and by the time of FO3/NV its been 200 years since the war and about 150 years since their establishment post war. Lots of time to perfect their craft and start experimenting.

 

As for the giant insects, its not JUST radiation mutation. Its a combination of radiation and FEV. FEV (Forced Evolutionary Virus) caused accelerated growth, radiation accelerated and enhanced those effects further.

 

CK covered the vaults pretty well so I won't go there. Well, other than this. In most vaults, you only see 1 or 2 levels. In Vault 22 you see 5, and they cover some of your questions regarding population and feeding. But according to some outside lore-supporting documents I've seen (things like the Fallout Bible) vaults were supposed to have upwards of 100 levels. Food production, manufacturing, living quarters, entertainment facilities, waste disposal, water treatment, you name it. But the fact of the matter is that all of those facilities would be 1) difficult and expensive for the game makers to add to the game and 2) Pointless to the story. So their existence is implied via inaccessible doors (did you really think Vault-Tech subscribed to the "Winchester Mystery House" school of architectural design?) instead of placed in the game outright.

[Halstrom]

Actually you know what I find Immersion Breaking is that many maps have only one set of firestairs that aren't blocked off, you have to follow the gameplan encounter map in the order it wants you too, there's no decissions like "Which stairs should we use? Up or Down?"

[KainsChylde]

*Door half gone, hanging by the latch and one hinge*

Door is locked, I cannot pass.

[astymma]

*Door half gone' date=' hanging by the latch and one hinge*

Door is locked, I cannot pass.

[/quote']

 

My favorite is a very hard locked door...

 

 

 

...next to a window...

[BruceWayne]

My biggest beef is the inventory. But that is an immersion breaker affecting all of Beth's games. I can see why it's there, after all it's no fun to find a lot of stuff without being able to take it with you. But I always found it odd to carry around dozens of armors, a literal ass load of scrap, the complete content of a well-stacked refrigerator and a whole arsenal of weapons and ammo that would make the NRA weep with joy.

[KainsChylde]

My biggest beef is the inventory. But that is an immersion breaker affecting all of Beth's games. I can see why it's there' date=' after all it's no fun to find a lot of stuff without being able to take it with you. But I always found it odd to carry around dozens of armors, a literal ass load of scrap, the complete content of a well-stacked refrigerator and a whole arsenal of weapons and ammo that would make the NRA weep with joy.

[/quote']

 

And then you pick up a teddy bear and you're overencumbered.

[sammythesquirrel]

Gun runners didn't just "find a stockpile of perfectly preserved guns and figure out how to reproduce them". According to lore' date=' Gun Runners either was originally a pre war gun manufacturer or set up shop in a pre war gun factory. From there they already had or had access to gun making facilities and schematics. And who said they instantly had the ability to reproduce and improve them? Gun runners got their start prior to FO1, and by the time of FO3/NV its been 200 years since the war and about 150 years since their establishment post war. Lots of time to perfect their craft and start experimenting.

 

As for the giant insects, its not JUST radiation mutation. Its a combination of radiation and FEV. FEV (Forced Evolutionary Virus) caused accelerated growth, radiation accelerated and enhanced those effects further.

 

CK covered the vaults pretty well so I won't go there. Well, other than this. In most vaults, you only see 1 or 2 levels. In Vault 22 you see 5, and they cover some of your questions regarding population and feeding. But according to some outside lore-supporting documents I've seen (things like the Fallout Bible) vaults were supposed to have upwards of 100 levels. Food production, manufacturing, living quarters, entertainment facilities, waste disposal, water treatment, you name it. But the fact of the matter is that all of those facilities would be 1) difficult and expensive for the game makers to add to the game and 2) Pointless to the story. So their existence is implied via inaccessible doors (did you really think Vault-Tech subscribed to the "Winchester Mystery House" school of architectural design?) instead of placed in the game outright.

[/quote']

 

Must have missed the explanation of gun runners when reading up and that makes sense. however the giant bug, STIll are not possible unless you're telling me that fev turned all the insects in the world into something that is no longer an insect. while its true all the levels would be far to complicated and expensive to implement in a game that is still no bar to a label to all those inaccessible and locked doors

ie door to hydroponics facility (inaccessible) ect

like some else earlier said New- Vegas has farms and irragation as well as livestock and even dialogue explaining where things like basic nessisities come from and yes the doors thing you mentioned OMG thats annoying

[leddis3]

Bit of a rant . I have never been able to immerse my self in any fallout game due to lack of realism. almost everything about them screams bs from the vaults not having any food growing facilities(that ive seen)

 

The problem with the Vaults is we've never seen a fully functional one.

They're either ruined or have access to various levels blocked off by contrivance (like Vault 101 or Vault 21).

The closest we ever came is Vault 13 in Fallout 1,

but those maps were meant to be abstract I think and not intended to show us the full scope.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Anybody who wants to see an abandoned but complete, 1000 person Vault, should download this mod.

 

Honestly, Vault 24 is the creepiest thing I've ever seen. Take the stairs down into the abyss and the whole thing is eery as fuck. The fact that there are no monsters just makes the entire thing more tense. It's pitch black. Picture yourself in that vault running away from some invisible horror.

 

That's what Vaults are supposed to look like. Now imagine if the developers had to do that for every location for realism's sake. It just wouldn't be feasible.

[leddis3]

What'd be interesting to me is starting the whole first act of the game inside a massive Vault that acts as part town and part world to explore with all the little details for a while until you exit to the main game world.

 

It would be like playing Final Fantasy VII and thinking Midgar was the whole game until you reach a certain point and suddenly there's a whole world map.

[astymma]

What'd be interesting to me is starting the whole first act of the game inside a massive Vault that acts as part town and part world to explore with all the little details for a while until you exit to the main game world.

 

It would be like playing Final Fantasy VII and thinking Midgar was the whole game until you reach a certain point and suddenly there's a whole world map.

 

Play the Underground portion of AWOP. It has that feeling though it's a shade smaller than the scope you mean.

[manam]

For me, it's definitely the stuff you're picking up more than the logistics behind things like the vaults or inventory. What I mean is that we're still finding food in 200 year-old supermarkets, and somehow the food is still safe to eat. I know it's all supposed to be preserved canned food, but I really don't think a box of insta-mash would have any mash left after 200 years. The same thing goes for ammunition. I know you can store it for quite a while, but 200 years just seems too long for things to be so well-preserved.

[DeadSomething]

what broke immersion the most for me (in FO3) was:

-that there was no living economy - almost from the beginning of the game, after owning my first house, i'm the richest motherfucker, noone else has as many caps, so also noone can buy the stuff i looted.

-too many people just hang out all day, yet they can pay for a house and support themselves with everything they might need.

like the merchants are the only ones that actually do anything worth being paid for.

-also the "leveledlist equipment" on merchants and in the world - why does the whole fucking world revolve around some stranger that just came out of that vault?!

but considering encounter leveled list is great.

-you had only a tiny bit of possible options in dialogues, "good, neutral, evil" and nothing inbetween (compared to games like "Baldur's Gate II")

-there are like thousands of abandoned houses in safe locations, yet people walk the wasteland and tell there's no place they could go.

-food that lasted 200 years and only has become a tiny bit radiated.

-if caps count as currency, where's the bank that holds the countervalue? (actually its explained http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bottle_cap butit would be great if you got told about that, when you exit the vault and get to any shopkeeper)

-bonuses to any skill/SPECIAL by wearing clothes/armor (sure, i use them much, but its not logical, except powerarmor)

-the way weaponskills increase the damage of a bullet! its just plain stupid - a bullet does the same amount of damage on hit, no matter how good the shooter is trained in using that weapon (i mean better/steadier aiming, countering recoil, reloading faster would make sense here)! also different damage on weapons that use the same ammo.

-no actual need of drinking or eating at any time

-lockpicking/hacking being forbidden to even try it, just because my skilllevel isnt high enough. serious, man, if the character isnt skilled, but the player is, then what keeps me from trying and how ddo you even know how hard a lock is to pick, just from looking at it? it will be incredably hard anyway, and you'll sit there for a while breakign one pick after another, but you should be able to at least try it!

-when you leave the vault, every radroach should run from you, as it got no chance against you, but why are they agressive and still try killing you, though they can barely hurt you and you kill them with one hit even using only the fists? same for other enemies.

-seeing some sidequestNPCs getting killed by the weakest enemies.

-seeing some sidequestNPCs getting killed by random encounters that shouldnt even occur on players level yet. like a deathclaw ripping a whole caravan away when the player is only level 5.

-200 years after the war, all powerplants still seem to work without anyone maintaining them: as you have light in the metro, in some buildings, etc.

 

sorry, i didnt want to rip the game apart, but thats pretty much what breaks immersion/gameplay for me.

also i have some mods that tweak some of those things, but there's still moreto be done.

[astymma]

A lot of the complaints about "immersion" that I'm seeing are founded in the realism of our world and not the fallout world. That would be like saying the the existence of elves breaks your immersion in LOTR because they don't exist in our reality. You have to assume the point of view of the world in order to become immersed within that world. That's not to say that many of the immersion complaints are baseless as some surely are well founded as violations of the fallout world's brand of realism. Within the fallout world's canon, boxed and canned food last 200+ years with minor radiation... just accept it and move on. The reality of fallout is not governed by our modern views of science but by its own laws. The RETCON provided by the Fallout Bible just made it more confusing for fans because it tried to introduce a "reality" kludge to make things easier to accept. All it did was damage the canon imo.

 

I guess my point is, if something is damaging your immersion, decide whether it offends you because it violates our reality or the reality of the fallout world. If it always seems to be our reality that's getting violated and bothering you, then perhaps fantasy games aren't for you.

[DeadSomething]

ok, many of the points i listed are minor immersion breakers and they would most likely not be breakign immersion, if there would've been an explanation for that in the game.

[Veta]

Really a fallout immersion breaker and no one posted this ........

 

 

 

 

[KainsChylde]

How was Liberty Prime an immersion breaker? He was just essentially a supersized Protectron.

[DoctaSax]

Yeah, he makes perfect sense to me too.

Commie-hating robot firing lasers from his eyes? Check!

[KainsChylde]

The commie hating is just programming. And the laser eyes is just like a protectron. Just larger scale due to a larger robot.