Some people still believe Earth is flat. Wtf?

[El Sparrow]

Uh, R733, just a thought, but taking vague implications which may or may not reflect reality based on fuzzy understandings of complex physics on scales that the human brain did not evolve with the need to comprehend, and assuming that your personal view is what is is a little silly. Frankly, whether or not the universe is a hologram isn't important. If it is, then we still have to live as if it's real because that's how we experience it. If it is not, then we still have to live as if it's real because it fucking well is. Either way it's the same result, so lets just wait for some actual data.

 

Of course, it goes without saying that the person who built our simulated universe is called Jeoffrey and wants us all to have sex with ducks. This much is obvious to all who are capable of thought.

[ChancellorKremlin]

Of course' date=' it goes without saying that the person who built our simulated universe is called Jeoffrey and wants us all to have sex with ducks. This much is obvious to all who are capable of thought.

[/quote']

 

Jeoffrey, did you hear that? They're onto us Jeoffrey! I told you the ducks were a dead giveaway! Jeoffrey? Who is that you're talking to? Nobody Jeoffrey, just me. Of course it's just me, there is nobody else here! Shut up!

 

[Queen Bee]

You'd think that the technical ability required to record video and use a computer would be an intelligence gate' date=' but apparently it isn't.

[/quote']

 

I like this so much, I'm going to quote it in my class.

 

Frankly' date=' whether or not the universe is a hologram isn't important. If it is, then we still have to live as if it's real because that's how we experience it. If it is not, then we still have to live as if it's real because it fucking well is. Either way it's the same result, so lets just wait for some actual data.[/quote']

 

Holy shit, that's a good answer. Now we sit back and wait for our resident tin-foil-hat-wearing-psycho to refute it to his dying breath.

 

Of course' date=' it goes without saying that the person who built our simulated universe is called Jeoffrey and wants us all to have sex with ducks. This much is obvious to all who are capable of thought.

[/quote']

 

Jeoffrey, did you hear that? They're onto us Jeoffrey! I told you the ducks were a dead giveaway! Jeoffrey? Who is that you're talking to? Nobody Jeoffrey, just me. Of course it's just me, there is nobody else here! Shut up!

 

 

Jeoffrey wants you both to come home. He's lonely and you forgot to feed the cat.

[El Sparrow]

Frankly' date=' whether or not the universe is a hologram isn't important. If it is, then we still have to live as if it's real because that's how we experience it. If it is not, then we still have to live as if it's real because it fucking well is. Either way it's the same result, so lets just wait for some actual data.[/quote']

 

Holy shit, that's a good answer. Now we sit back and wait for our resident tin-foil-hat-wearing-psycho to refute it to his dying breath.

 

Well of course it's a good answer - I'm a jean-yus. At least according to entirely unbiased sources with no reason to lie at all, such as my parents and close friends. I'm also used to discussing interesting but ultimately meaningless and unprovable concepts with people. I mean it's cool and all, but unless the magic chicken on the roof of your car can do anything other than hypnotise the invisible beavers in my hair so that they're too quiet to be detectable, then it's really not important that I give her my sausage ration.

 

Of course' date=' it goes without saying that the person who built our simulated universe is called Jeoffrey and wants us all to have sex with ducks. This much is obvious to all who are capable of thought.

[/quote']

 

Jeoffrey, did you hear that? They're onto us Jeoffrey! I told you the ducks were a dead giveaway! Jeoffrey? Who is that you're talking to? Nobody Jeoffrey, just me. Of course it's just me, there is nobody else here! Shut up!

 

 

Jeoffrey wants you both to come home. He's lonely and you forgot to feed the cat.

 

SLANDER! I always feed the cat. Well, I leave the fish tank lid off anyway. Same difference as I see it.

Tonight I will feed her the magic chicken... two birds, one world-shattering stone.

Tomorrow I feed her to Jeoffrey and buy a new cat... and keep looking for a less creepy job.

[Queen Bee]

Jeoffrey also says he wants to be called Jeff from now on. He's a glitchy silverfish.

[R733]

The infinite capacity of this species to reject useful informations never stops to amaze me.

[Strelky]

The info isn't useful. It is in no way relevant to our daily lives whether everything is real or just a big-ass simulation

[R733]

The info isn't useful. It is in no way relevant to our daily lives whether everything is real or just a big-ass simulation

 

It is. You just don't even bother to ponder it. In a way, however, you're right; ignored information is not applied information, hence useless one.

[El Sparrow]

If the information is useful and relevant, tell me something; how do you differentiate a simulated universe from a real one?

[Queen Bee]

If the information is useful and relevant' date=' tell me something; how do you differentiate a simulated universe from a real one?

[/quote']

 

*Gets out the popcorn* This ought to be good.

[Strelky]

To an outside observer, the tedious and boring entropy is very entertaining

[R733]

If the information is useful and relevant' date=' tell me something; how do you differentiate a simulated universe from a real one?

[/quote']

 

That's an easy one; real/fundamental universe(consciousness) cannot be simulated. By that I mean it cannot behave like simulated/virtual reality. Virtual reality does not contain real structures, just data that can be used to build illusionary perceptions of structures (like in computer games). Most of scientists perceive quantum weirdness as illogical because of their assumption that physical reality is fundamental. In fundamental reality things could not be at two places simultaneously, things could not simply disappear and appear, the time (process) could not be non-continuous and incoherent (in its timeline sequence). It simply could not work and would not make any sense without more fundamental reality that manufacture this universe.

 

Without proper tools (certain level of intelligence and machines) it would be difficult to recognize virtual (data based) nature of this reality. First double slit experiment was performed in 1909...

[R733]

To an outside observer' date=' the tedious and boring entropy is very entertaining

[/quote']

 

I have no ide what you're talking about. Entropy (hidden [undefined/potential] data) is what our scientists call chaos, disored, unpredictability. It's fascinating to watch chaos, to see how illogical social structures dissolve and decay under the weight of their faulty intent to control the energy. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:P

[El Sparrow]

If the information is useful and relevant' date=' tell me something; how do you differentiate a simulated universe from a real one?

[/quote']

 

That's an easy one; real/fundamental universe(consciousness) cannot be simulated. By that I mean it cannot behave like simulated/virtual reality. Virtual reality does not contain real structures, just data that can be used to build illusionary perceptions of structures (like in computer games). Most of scientists perceive quantum weirdness as illogical because of their assumption that physical reality is fundamental. In fundamental reality things could not be at two places simultaneously, things could not simply disappear and appear, the time (process) could not be non-continuous and incoherent (in its timeline sequence). It simply could not work and would not make any sense without more fundamental reality that manufacture this universe.

 

Without proper tools (certain level of intelligence and machines) it would be difficult to recognize virtual (data based) nature of this reality. First double slit experiment was performed in 1909...

 

Interesting...

real/fundamental universe(consciousness) cannot be simulated.

If consciousness cannot be simulated' date=' then all one would need to do to determine whether this universe is real or simulated would be to find a consciousness within it.......... found one. Therefore, if consciousness cannot be simulated, then the universe is not simulated.

/cheapshot

 

I think you might have confused the ability to explain the universe with math as the universe itself being built on math, and the universe not actually matching our perceptions on a fundamental level with it not being real.

We did not evolve in a world that required us to understand quantum behaviours, so they seem bizarre and illogical to us, but that doesn't mean that they are bizarre and illogical, only that we're a bunch of comparatively smart apes who evolved in a macroscopic world and don't fully understand them.

 

When you look at a painting by Escher, or walk through a hall of mirrors, what you're seeing is not really what you're looking at, but the result of tricks of light and perception, but the thing you're looking at really exists despite those tricks. Maybe the universe is real, and maybe it's a simulation, but all we can really say either way, until we get actual data, is that our perception of it is iffy.

 

The double split experiment, along with other quantum experiments, demonstrate that the universe isn't really the way we see it - we are living in a hall of mirrors - and that the building blocks of what we recognise as reality act in ways which seem utterly surreal to us. Being in two places at once, popping in and our of existence, seemingly at random, moving and transmitting information faster than the speed of light. The only reason our macroscopic reality makes any sense to us at all is that these building blocks interact with one another in a way similar to that of ripples in a pond, to cancel out the vast number of often contradictory possible states and generating a coherent image. Exploration of the quantum world shows that our universe is far stranger than we ever imagined in the magic-obsessed youth of our species... but it doesn't show that it's simulated, only that it's weird.

Quantum physics shows us that classical physics barely understands reality as it truly is, but it doesn't show that reality doesn't exist - there are options other than a classical understanding of reality and no reality, there are almost certainly options other than the quantum understanding too. The universe is probably weirder than we will ever understand, or perhaps we will understand it entirely at some point in the future... but either way, it's too early today to claim to understand it well enough to declare it unreal.

 

 

Entropy (hidden [undefined/potential] data) is what our scientists call chaos, disored, unpredictability.

 

No it isn't, not really. Entropy is quite predictable, and it isn't really about disorder, it's about usable energy. Disorder and chaos is one way to think about entropy, but it's an extremely limited way.

Entropy is more like read-only data - the higher the entropy of a system, the less you can do with that system without external interactions; either bringing energy in from without to make the data writeable, or expanding the space inhabited by the data, thereby generating new data to be written.

[Jexsam]

Consider a solar/lunar eclipse.

 

Imagine how frightened and/or awed early man must've been when the moon, that most reliable fixture of the night sky, suddenly began to turn a deep, terrifying red. Perhaps they respond with fear; clearly the only explanation is some god or spirit or ancestor is angered! Or, perhaps, they wondered at it, asking their wisemen or women what has happening, and it would be explained to them that sometimes, the moon bleeds, for they saw it once many seasons ago.

 

But, as people advanced, learned, grew, they figured something out. The sun and moon's disappearances could in fact be charted and predicted. They still didn't understand why the moon and sun vanished, only that it happened predictably, that it could be observed and documented, but not explained beyond assumptions that a god was offended or displaying his or her power.

 

Finally, mankind grasped what was happening; sometimes, while travelling around, the moon would simply block out the sun, or the earth would cast its shadow on the moon. Science, or what amounted it to in those ancient days, had finally caught up and been able to explain these things.

 

We are currently in a very similar place to that middle step when it comes to things like quantum physics. We can reliably document and observe these bizarre things quantum physics can do, but we don't know how or why yet. If jumping to the conclusion that we live in a virtual universe is your way of explaining it, then so be it. And maybe that's true; as I said, we don't know why these things act this way.

 

Just keep in mind. The Chinese, one of the most scientifically forward peoples of antiquity, thought a dragon was eating the sun.

 

Just because the Chinese made noise to bring the sun back doesn't mean that's what brought it back. Just because we can't explain why molecules can be in two places at once doesn't mean our universe is The Matrix. The simplest, most scientific response to both of those situations is simply "We don't know why yet."

[R733]

real/fundamental universe(consciousness) cannot be simulated.

If consciousness cannot be simulated' date=' then all one would need to do to determine whether this universe is real or simulated would be to find a consciousness within it.......... found one. Therefore, if consciousness cannot be simulated, then the universe is not simulated.

/cheapshot[/quote']

 

Consciousness can operate in virtual system just like real player can operate in multiplayer game; it does not change that the game is virtual.

 

Entropy (hidden [undefined/potential] data) is what our scientists call chaos' date=' disored, unpredictability.[/quote']

 

No it isn't, not really. Entropy is quite predictable, and it isn't really about disorder, it's about usable energy. Disorder and chaos is one way to think about entropy, but it's an extremely limited way.

Entropy is more like read-only data - the higher the entropy of a system, the less you can do with that system without external interactions; either bringing energy in from without to make the data writeable, or expanding the space inhabited by the data, thereby generating new data to be written.

Entropy is not defined just in thermodynamics, but also in information theory. Those both definitons have common part - unknown data. So, it's not about "unusable" energy (we used to call it this way because we don't understand the purpose of entropy) but energy not under our control.

 

the higher the entropy of a system, the less you can do with that system without external interactions;

Our universe is not a machine, limitations for focused work are not the purpose of the universe. Without entropy universe would be dead, stagnat.

 

Entropy is quite predictable, and it isn't really about disorder, it's about usable energy.

If think you're talking about entropy level not behaviour of unmeasured energy, which is unpredictable.

 

Entropy is more like read-only data - the higher the entropy of a system, the less you can do with that system without external interactions;

Once your read data, that data is defined/known (at the level of measurment)so you reduce the entropy level of measured system. So, it's more like unreadable or not readed yet data.

 

Exploration of the quantum world shows that our universe is far stranger than we ever imagined in the magic-obsessed youth of our species... but it doesn't show that it's simulated, only that it's weird.

 

I disagree. Quantum mechanics are trivial and perfectly logical/simplistic unless you want to cling to this reality as fundamental. There is nothing weird abot QM; our reality is designed to offer maximum of free expression with consideration of level of consciousness, so faulty structures won't self-destruct too quickly; consciousness will have a chance to make corrections of its intent.

 

By the way "quantum world" phenomena does not concern only atomic/subatomic scale; experiments with complex molecules have been performed.

[El Sparrow]

our reality is designed to offer maximum of free expression with consideration of level of consciousness' date=' so faulty structures won't self-destruct too quickly; consciousness will have a chance to make corrections of its intent.[/quote']

 

Well.... it's nice that you know the purpose of the universe. I'm going to go talk to a duck.

[R733]

our reality is designed to offer maximum of free expression with consideration of level of consciousness' date=' so faulty structures won't self-destruct too quickly; consciousness will have a chance to make corrections of its intent.[/quote']

 

Well.... it's nice that you know the purpose of the universe. I'm going to go talk to a duck.

 

Just tell the duck to avoid subjects that might be too deep...

[Queen Bee]

*chews popcorn* Oh no he didn't!

[TheoryoftheDead]

People say the most absurd things to get attention these days. Especially Television attention.

[El Sparrow]

Well.... it's nice that you know the purpose of the universe. I'm going to go talk to a duck.

 

Just tell the duck to avoid subjects that might be too deep...

 

Ducks are aquatic birds; deep subjects are all they care about. Well, breadcrumbs are also a popular topic.

[ChancellorKremlin]

*chews popcorn* Oh no he didn't!

 

I was going to just step in and say a token "moderator is watching" bit like "ahem" or something like that' date=' but that was handled very well.

 

Well.... it's nice that you know the purpose of the universe. I'm going to go talk to a duck.

 

Just tell the duck to avoid subjects that might be too deep...

 

Ducks are aquatic birds; deep subjects are all they care about. Well' date=' breadcrumbs are also a popular topic.

[/quote']

 

Congratulations gentlemen, carry on, cheerio!

[Queen Bee]

*chews popcorn* Oh no he didn't!

 

I was going to just step in and say a token "moderator is watching" bit like "ahem" or something like that' date=' but that was handled very well.

[/quote']

 

I think we've all figured out the key to debates like these is to not take them seriously.

 

I mean, no, wait, this is all very serious. ITS ALL VRY SRS BSNS YOU GAIS!!

[ChancellorKremlin]

I think we've all figured out the key to debates like these is to not take them seriously.

 

I mean' date=' no, wait, this is all very serious. ITS ALL VRY SRS BSNS YOU GAIS!!

[/quote']

 

lol, yeah. I've had one or two of those in the politics section...

 

Now that we're on the subjets (we're not, but we might as well!) - Queen Bee, what is your avatar of? She seems familiar to me but I can't quite place it...

[Sun Shang Xiang]

In my opinion, this is the same as trying to convince people that there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE that we are the only race in whole goddamn universe, because people, despite living in 21st century, are more inclined to believe a BOOK than their own eyes and ears. If they see an UFO, and if some1 tells them that what they saw was a mirage, THEY WILL BELIEVE THAT!