Help - Neck seam texture editing?

[malisbad1]

For those texture gurus out there...  So, I'm TRYING to fix this neck seam with Gimp.  [Pilgrim ENB, hence the bland palate]

Texture is [2k Face and body - less bright lips and eye-lids variant-29722-3-7]

 

 

I figured that by cloning the closest part of the body specular map to the bottom of the head specular map (basically the neck) these should match up, but they do not.   I cloned the texture, the specular and even duplicated the subsurface map with a plain ol' really dark grey solid color square...  So what gives?  This is a specular miss-match, isn't it?  I even tried editing the skin itself, but that didn't help.

 

Anyone know what I need to do to match up the neck seam, please?  While I actually like the Wonder Body, but I like the flexibility of CBBE if I could just find a good texture that WORKS.

 

No issues with WB textures... neck seam is almost un-noticeable...

 

Thank you kindly!

 

 

[malisbad1]

Just for reference, this is the skin texture as DL'd before I started messing with it.  Appears I have reversed the problem...?

[AWP3RATOR]

In my experience, this is generally a normals and specular issue - not a diffuse texture problem. Though it can be one, two, or all three.  The diffuse texture handles the actual colors you see, whereas the normal and specular define how light reacts to the texture.  These two secondary files can make an otherwise identical diffuse texture set look different or not matching, like you have here.

 

To be clear, it's probably not the normal map, as that is generally matching in tone and is used for raised/lowered details (like goosembumps or pores).  It's likely that the specular textures for the body and face are not matching.  This is easy to to get close with photoshop or gimp. Open both speculars side by side and use the channel mixer options to rebalance both so that they match.  You will likely find that one is lighter/darker than the other.  This will have the effect of making the lighter or darker file more shiny or more dull, which creates the noticeable difference between the two.

 

Here is how the default speculars look for CBBE body and the vanilla head (cbbe does not include  head)

 

note that the tone is nearly identical around the neck on both images.  Also note that Photoshop represents an empty channel as black, whereas Gimp represents it as white.  This will make the speculars appear greenish in Photoshop, while they will have a blue tint in Gimp.

 

 

[guk]

According to the mod description, you may have the "dark face bug" from not having the required mods installed.

 

 

[malisbad1]

11 hours ago, guk said:

According to the mod description, you may have the "dark face bug" from not having the required mods installed.

 

 

Well... I don't think so...  If you look closely, the upper part of the face matches the body.  It's that the neck gets darker as you go down and mismatches where it meets the collarbone.  I have minimal mismatch at the back of the head.  This Pilgrim ENB is highly stylized, but her skin is on the darkest setting, and that is where this mismatch really shows up.  

 

Pic from the mod page:

 

But I took your suggestion anyway and reinstalled everything, and I def do now have the "dark face bug" (except her face is now white/Caucasian and her body is still very black)., so I messed that up somehow...

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

 

 

[guk]

Perhaps a problem with the texture size of HD DLC vs vanilla? IIRC with the HD DLC installed, the face textures have to be a fixed size.

Also the 2K Face Texture mod is older than than the DLC, not sure what exactly should be installed in which combination ?

 

 

Besides that, with CBBE and face texture replacers you will always have some kind of seam / mismatch under certain lighting conditions. It gets worse the darker the skin is.

Here are comparison shots from my own face designs:

 

 

1. Oni Face + CBBE Default Body + Vanilla option 1 for the neck

2. Same with Oni Neck (option 2)

3. (...)

 

 

So yeah it's probably best to hide it somehow, unless you want to use Wonder Body again. In the end it's just about the presentation, and your own OCD on that matter ?

 

[AWP3RATOR]

This image is the specular from the LSC less bright lips and eyelids variant.  Note that the neck seam area is a slighting different shade than the body neck seam.  This produces some of the seam you are seeing in game.  The other part of the seam is from the meshes themselves.  CBBE does not include a head mesh, instead it uses the default vanilla head meshes.  While they line up properly, there will always be seam in this area.  It can be mitigated and reduced to almost invisibility, but it will always be present, under different lighting conditions and skin tones.

 

 

 

 

 

These are 3 different texture sets, all showing a bit of seam at the neck.  This is very common in Skyrim as well.

[malisbad1]

14 hours ago, AWP3RATOR said:

In my experience, this is generally a normals and specular issue - not a diffuse texture problem. Though it can be one, two, or all three.  The diffuse texture handles the actual colors you see, whereas the normal and specular define how light reacts to the texture.  These two secondary files can make an otherwise identical diffuse texture set look different or not matching, like you have here.

 

To be clear, it's probably not the normal map, as that is generally matching in tone and is used for raised/lowered details (like goosembumps or pores).  It's likely that the specular textures for the body and face are not matching.  This is easy to to get close with photoshop or gimp. Open both speculars side by side and use the channel mixer options to rebalance both so that they match.  You will likely find that one is lighter/darker than the other.  This will have the effect of making the lighter or darker file more shiny or more dull, which creates the noticeable difference between the two. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't know if I can fix it.  I seem to be just making it worse.  I can't even open the body diffuse map in gimp.  I guess they saved it in a proprietary PS format from what I'm reading? 

I'm going to keep trying other 'patch mods' to see if I can lessen it, but when I edited the specular map, it just got worse. 

[malisbad1]

2 hours ago, guk said:

Perhaps a problem with the texture size of HD DLC vs vanilla? IIRC with the HD DLC installed, the face textures have to be a fixed size.

Also the 2K Face Texture mod is older than than the DLC, not sure what exactly should be installed in which combination ?

 

 

Besides that, with CBBE and face texture replacers you will always have some kind of seam / mismatch under certain lighting conditions. It gets worse the darker the skin is.

Here are comparison shots from my own face designs:

 

1. Oni Face + CBBE Default Body + Vanilla option 1 for the neck

2. Same with Oni Neck (option 2)

3. (...)

 

 

So yeah it's probably best to hide it somehow, unless you want to use Wonder Body again. In the end it's just about the presentation, and your own OCD on that matter ?

 

 

I don't mind the seam you have there.  That's not bad at all!  Especially in shot 1.  I'd be very happy if I could replicate what you have there... except, I know there will always be a little difference, but I definitely want to avoid the 'plastic' face skin of your shots.  No offense, but her face looks plastic ?  WAY too smooth and shiny.  Skin never looks like that.  I'm basically a "realism junkie" and I can't do that.  heheh. You said it, my own OCD. 

 

But you're absolutely right.  There is almost always a bit of a difference.  I'm OK if it's subtle and isn't jarring. 

 

I guess I'm going to pull apart all these mods into their constituent parts (diffuse, normal, specular & sub-surface) like I did in Skyrim and see if I can build a good skin that has all the qualities I want...

 

Thanks for all the suggestions ?

 

 

[malisbad1]

2 hours ago, AWP3RATOR said:

This image is the specular from the LSC less bright lips and eyelids variant.  Note that the neck seam area is a slighting different shade than the body neck seam.  This produces some of the seam you are seeing in game.  The other part of the seam is from the meshes themselves.  CBBE does not include a head mesh, instead it uses the default vanilla head meshes.  While they line up properly, there will always be seam in this area.  It can be mitigated and reduced to almost invisibility, but it will always be present, under different lighting conditions and skin tones.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's where I tried 'cloning' (Clone tool in Gimp) the specular from the base of the head map to the opening of the body map (and visa versa) and then trying to blend it in with the "repair" tool... it made it worse, it seemed ? 

I wonder if Gimp has a like "color selector" that I can get an exact numerical value of the color at the seam of one, than adjust the other to match that...

 

Thanks mate, for all the info.  I'll keep trying ?  Like I said to guk, I know there will always be a bit of a seam, but the one I have now is just too jarring for me to accept it!  There has to be a way to minimize it to a tolerable level.

[malisbad1]

OK, that was the trick.  I pulled apart several skin texture mods, separated them into their own folders: diffuse, normal, specular & sub-surface and basically built my own conglomerate.  She looks awesome! Subtle tan lines, pubes, and acceptable realism!  She looks fantastic ?  Seam is almost non-existent and I got the customizable CBBE body I want.

 

Thanks guk & AWP3RATOR.  Sometime you just have to talk things out to tackle a problem and you guys did that for me (not to mention your technical advice ;-).  Thanks again! 

 

I almost don't want to put her clothes back on!