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Do People Just Not Know What Debates Are?


Reitanna

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I get the feeling that people nowadays don't understand the difference between debating and arguing. Additionally, it feels like people don't understand what a hostile comment actually looks like. Let's create a scenario... let's say someone made a piece of content that is a shirt with vegan extremism messages like, "you can't love animals and eat them at the same time," or, "yes, I'm vegan, and yes, I'm judging you." We'll call the creator "Author," and put in a commenter based on myself.

 

 

Commenter: I feel like the message you're sending is not a fair one.

 

Author: Why not?

 

Commenter: Because our diet is part of a life choice, and discriminating against people for not doing anything wrong isn't something we should do.

 

Author: But it's wrong to eat animals.

 

Commenter: That's debatable, but no matter what your opinion is on the matter, it's not right to shame others for their choices. I'm a vegetarian, and I love animals to the ends of the earth, but I have plenty of friends who love animals more than I do who eat meat. There are people out there working to save animals' lives, rescues, preservation of endangered species, people who connect better with animals better than their own species, and still eat meat.

 

Author: But being vegan is healthier.

 

Commenter: Not in all cases. Remember that humans are animals too, and we are naturally omnivorous. Actually, our teeth and digestive systems aren't built to eat red meat, but are able to handle poultry and fish just fine. In fact, the healthiest diet you could be on is just cutting red meat out entirely. We need certain things for proper nutrition. That's not to say that vegetarians and vegans can't be healthy with their diets, but I'm sure you know by experience that we have to go to extra lengths to get that missing nutrition, and it's very expensive. Then you have to think about other animals. Lions are carnivorous, which means they eat other animals. Does that make them cruel? Not enough humans understand that we are still animals, and we still have to survive. Do I agree with how live stock animals are treated in most cases? Absolutely not, and I wish I could change it. Still, you're not going to convince a majority of humans to quit eating meat, and when you push your veganism in their face, it actually makes them want to defy you even more. In any case of it, conversion is wrong, and harmful opinions should be kept to yourself.

 

Author: You make very good points that I didn't think of before. You're right, but what do you think I should do to fix this?

 

Commenter: It's alright to express vegan pride, and possible to do so without insulting others. Naturally, you'll still get backlash, but if you're not harming anyone, that's their fault, not yours.

 

Author: Alright, I will find some messages that still express my opinion, but not impose on other people's.

 

 

Let's replay that, but in a different way...

 

 

Commenter: Well that's rude.

 

Author: Excuse me?

 

Commenter: You can't just shove your veganism down people's throats. It's people like you that give good vegans and vegetarians a bad name.

 

Author: Oh, I'm sorry, I just don't support you enjoying the flesh of innocent animals.

 

Commenter: I happen to be a vegetarian, and I love animals. But if you act like you're better than everyone else because you choose to ignore facts, everyone is going to find you easy to hate.

 

Author: The fact is, it's wrong to eat animals!

 

Commenter: WE'RE animals, you moron. If we had a predator that ate us, you wouldn't be so high up on that horse of yours.

 

Author: YOU'RE the moron! Humans are built to be vegans!

 

Commenter: Oh my god, are you seriously retarded?

 

 

This could go on forever. And what happens when the commenter is trying to debate, but the author is trying to argue? Or what if the author misunderstands the commenter and thinks THEY are trying to argue? Do you just assume a comment is hostile? Or can you read it another way?

 

 

Friend 1: I just got all A's on my report card!!

 

Friend 2: Good for you.

 

Friend 1: Um, what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

 

Friend 2: What?

 

Friend 1: Are you like jealous or something? I'm sorry if I'm happy about getting good grades, I thought, as my friend, you'd be supportive, but maybe you're not my fucking friend! I would've been happy for YOU, you know!

 

Friend 2: Woah, wait a minute, why are you blowing up at me?

 

Friend 1: Just fucking forget it, I don't want to talk to you. [signs off]

 

 

How could this have been avoided?

 

 

Friend 1: I just got all A's on my report card!!

 

Friend 2: Good for you.

 

Friend 1: Did you mean for that to sound rude, or am I misunderstanding?

 

Friend 2: Oh my gosh, I'm sorry! XD No, that wasn't supposed to be rude, I'm really happy for you. :smile:

 

Friend 1: Thanks!!

 

 

What would it look like if friend 2 WANTED to be mean?

 

 

Friend 1: I just got all A's on my report card!!

 

Friend 2: Good for you. Would you like a medal?

 

Friend 1: Um, what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

 

Friend 2: Well, it's like, are you trying to rub it in my face or something? Why should I care about your stupid good grades?

 

Friend 1: I thought my friend would be supportive of me, like I would to you! What is wrong with you?

 

Friend 2: I guess I'm just a bad friend. Is that what you want to hear?

 

 

And so on. You see, you can't hear the voice of the person who is commenting, nor can you see their facial expression. Not everyone is used to using emoticons to convey expression, and even then, positive emoticons can be used to show passive aggressiveness. You might read a civil comment in a hostile tone in your own mind, and you might flare up and get upset, but it's up to you to step back, take a moment, and say, "wait, maybe that's not how they meant it." That's when you must ask for clarification of the person's intent. I've run into both situations where people have misunderstood my intentions, AND where people ask me for clarification (or the other way around). It's much more pleasant to get that clarification, to know that the other person was not responding to you in the way that you took it. We can all read the words, "good for you," but can we all read it in the same tone the author reads it? No, and we should not expect ourselves to.

 

I myself always tell people, "you'll KNOW when I'm trying to insult you." Why? Well, it's enough to get me in some deep trouble. Forums are the number one place to avoid that whenever possible, because it can get you banned immediately. That's why I remain civil... or so I try, but it makes it really hard when other people assume I meant it in another way, and on my end, I get confused, because I read my comments back to myself and think, "where the hell are they getting this? I don't see anything I said that could be hostile." I expressed this in my blog called "Unnecessary Drama." And it's just so damn funny when I'm trying to understand what went wrong, and I end up getting in trouble for something I had no idea was a problem. You don't understand... I have VERY strong morals, and I do not purposefully get into trouble. I was always that kid who didn't jaywalk, always that kid that said, "that's not a good idea" when friends wanted to be reckless. I was that kid in class who told the teacher I saw someone cheating on a test once class was over. I was that kid who REFUSED to stay home for a day when sick, until everyone else was like, "dude, you need to go home and rest." If I was even a SECOND late to class, it was like the end of the world to me, and that never changed when I grew older and got a job.

 

I had misread the schedule when I worked at Walgreens, and I ended up being a half an hour late. I BAWLED MY EYES OUT and begged my boss not to fire me, and he was like, "Kara, you made a mistake. You're never late to work, you just made a mistake. You'd have to be consistently late on a regular basis for me to even write you up." And still, to this day, I am still that girl who can't figure out why or how some people can just do bad things. I can't wrap my head around it. I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm saying I obsessively try everything in my power to be as good a person as I can be because I know the consequences will upset me, and ruin many things I still enjoy in this shit filled life. I have a lot of common sense, but I also seem to have a lot of naïveté. I don't want to get into the things in my youth that caused this because I feel like a broken record every time I explain my broken childhood. The short story is, there are things I can't understand because of how poorly I was raised. But the thing is, if people weren't such IDIOTS, they'd know to try and understand why people like me may come off as abrasive when we are definitely not trying to be.

 

But no, if someone read a comment the wrong way, it's the commenter's fault, isn't it? It's a very small comparison to innocent people thrown in jail for crimes they didn't commit. I often feel like me and the people I hold close to me are only a few of the intelligent people left on this planet. They had normal upbringings. But all in all, it doesn't matter what the reason is, how you were raised, your mental shortcomings, or anything like that...

 

IF A COMMENT ISN'T OBVIOUSLY HOSTILE, ASK FOR CLARIFICATION BEFORE BLOWING UP. Simple as that.

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Monty Python did a skit about this... somewhat.

 

http://www.montypython.net/scripts/argument.php

 

but otherwise, yes, people are far too quick to fly off the handle. As a radio personality around here says "they get up in the morning looking for ways to be offended" and "instead of the squeaky wheel getting the grease, sometimes you just need to let it squeak."

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A person is nothing more than the sum total of their beliefs and experiences I don't think it's that surprising that often people slip into anger when you start probing at that.

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