Did Bethesda miss the boat?

[Derp McDerp]

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers).  Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game. 

 

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

[Shadowheart328]

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers).  Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game. 

 

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

[RapidWaterOver]

 

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers).  Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game. 

 

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

 

SKSE is neither unsafe nor brings any sort of bad precedence. Especially considering that there's been script extenders for every Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind.

[Shadowheart328]

 

 

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers).  Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game. 

 

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

 

SKSE is neither unsafe nor brings any sort of bad precedence. Especially considering that there's been script extenders for every Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind.

 

Though SKSE does nothing wrong, what it does with the game files itself is inherently unsafe. SKSE is malware for Skyrim that benefits the player, but is not something a company would enjoy having on their program, that's why it is better that Bethesda ignores that it exists and just let the player base handle it. 

 

Edit: I am not saying that SKSE is bad or will harm your computer. Instead, I am saying that by design it is malware, and as such is not something a company would support doing. Think about it, a company that provides technology must think about stability and security first and foremost, and software that directly opens up a ton of possible security risks is not something a tech company should support. While Script Extenders work in our favor, software like it can provide access to functions or features deliberately hidden by developers. So while I support the SKSE team 100% (I would have liked to help them, if they didn't work with C/C++, not my language), I also understand why Bethesda will not support them.

 

Now to address another argument: Why doesn't Bethesda provide the skse functions already so that the SKSE team will not have to. The problem with this argument is the fact that Bethesda isn't omniscient, they cannot determine what it is we want and then build every single function for it. I mean at the end of the day, even if Bethesda shipped with everything the current SKSE provides, I guarantee you that somebody will need a function that it doesn't provide and the SKSE team will have to make those functions anyway, and we end up with a new script extender with added functions all over again.

[RapidWaterOver]

 

 

 

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers).  Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game. 

 

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

 

SKSE is neither unsafe nor brings any sort of bad precedence. Especially considering that there's been script extenders for every Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind.

 

Though SKSE does nothing wrong, what it does with the game files itself is inherently unsafe. SKSE is malware for Skyrim that benefits the player, but is not something a company would enjoy having on their program, that's why it is better that Bethesda ignores that it exists and just let the player base handle it. 

 

Edit: I am not saying that SKSE is bad or will harm your computer. Instead, I am saying that by design it is malware, and as such is not something a company would support doing. Think about it, a company that provides technology must think about stability and security first and foremost, and software that directly opens up a ton of possible security risks is not something a tech company should support. While Script Extenders work in our favor, software like it can provide access to functions or features deliberately hidden by developers. So while I support the SKSE team 100% (I would have liked to help them, if they didn't work with C/C++, not my language), I also understand why Bethesda will not support them.

 

Now to address another argument: Why doesn't Bethesda provide the skse functions already so that the SKSE team will not have to. The problem with this argument is the fact that Bethesda isn't omniscient, they cannot determine what it is we want and then build every single function for it. I mean at the end of the day, even if Bethesda shipped with everything the current SKSE provides, I guarantee you that somebody will need a function that it doesn't provide and the SKSE team will have to make those functions anyway, and we end up with a new script extender with added functions all over again.

 

There are no "security risks" as there aren't any system level functions that SKSE can use for devious purposes. Besides, if someone were able to fuck around with someone's OS using SKSE, Bethesda would have it shut down in a heartbeat.

 

The worst someone can do with SKSE is cause the game to crash or create save game bloat. That's more of a annoyance then any sort of risk.

[Shadowheart328]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers). Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game.

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

SKSE is neither unsafe nor brings any sort of bad precedence. Especially considering that there's been script extenders for every Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind.

Though SKSE does nothing wrong, what it does with the game files itself is inherently unsafe. SKSE is malware for Skyrim that benefits the player, but is not something a company would enjoy having on their program, that's why it is better that Bethesda ignores that it exists and just let the player base handle it.

 

Edit: I am not saying that SKSE is bad or will harm your computer. Instead, I am saying that by design it is malware, and as such is not something a company would support doing. Think about it, a company that provides technology must think about stability and security first and foremost, and software that directly opens up a ton of possible security risks is not something a tech company should support. While Script Extenders work in our favor, software like it can provide access to functions or features deliberately hidden by developers. So while I support the SKSE team 100% (I would have liked to help them, if they didn't work with C/C++, not my language), I also understand why Bethesda will not support them.

 

Now to address another argument: Why doesn't Bethesda provide the skse functions already so that the SKSE team will not have to. The problem with this argument is the fact that Bethesda isn't omniscient, they cannot determine what it is we want and then build every single function for it. I mean at the end of the day, even if Bethesda shipped with everything the current SKSE provides, I guarantee you that somebody will need a function that it doesn't provide and the SKSE team will have to make those functions anyway, and we end up with a new script extender with added functions all over again.

There are no "security risks" as there aren't any system level functions that SKSE can use for devious purposes. Besides, if someone were able to fuck around with someone's OS using SKSE, Bethesda would have it shut down in a heartbeat.

 

The worst someone can do with SKSE is cause the game to crash or create save game bloat. That's more of a annoyance then any sort of risk.

Um....read what you just wrote and tell me that isn't a security risk. Come on, you just described 2 stability/security risks. You are so fixated on me calling SKSE malware that you are missing the point of my statements.

 

I am not saying that the SKSE is bad itself, I am saying that the way that SKSE was made opens up a large can of worms and supporting it is bad for legal reasons.

 

Basically SKSE hooks into the game at runtime and adds its own functions that modify/manipulate the game at runtime. While it definitely provides modding with wonderful tools and has allowed the creation of many wonderful mods (I am guessing that this website wouldn't really exist without script extenders), supporting it sets a precedence that Bethesda is fine with people hacking into their game code outside of their provided API to manipulate the game in unintended ways.

 

The problem with this is that if someone creates a mod that has the sole intention of crashing the game, causing save bloat, or worse hiding a virus in the code, Bethesda and not the third party will be held responsible because they allow it to happen.

 

So the best thing that they can do to support the script extenders is simply ignoring it.

[jordisslave]

 

A lovecraftian horror - like entity like Bethesda missing the boat, considering they dominate the market already... ppppfffft!

 

They made Skyrim SE just to get more money from people

And that's not even considering SE is as i've heard, the exact same thing as Skyrim but with better shaders and crap

Oh wait... Didn't mods do that already?

It wasnt even friendly to ENBs...

Yet fanboys and obedient consumers still ran to the shops in hype like it was black friday shop madness...

 

By the moment they release Elder Scrolls VI, the gaming world will definitely go nuts again and their pockets will be as full and profuse as ever and more.

Skyrim Special Edition was free if you already had the base game plus DLC's, which is the majority of people. Really the only ones who didn't get it for free were console users. There are a few benefits of SE to the regular game too - I've heard that it has far better performance (haven't really bothered playing it yet to see if this is true, I'm waiting for SKSE64 before I do)

, you can alt-tab out of the game without it freezing/crashing, it's 64 bit instead of 32 bit, and it has support for Bethesda's gimmicky online modding thing.

 

 

Am I the only person in the world who's always been able to alt-tab Skyrim from its standard fullscreen?

On XP I could do it a maximum of 4 times before the game crashed, on W7 there's never a problem until I get to about 8, even then it only crashes if they happen in quick succession. The only thing that breaks is the Steam framerate counter which sits stubbornly reading 1fps after about the 6th switch. And even that recovers sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers). Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game.

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

SKSE is neither unsafe nor brings any sort of bad precedence. Especially considering that there's been script extenders for every Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind.

Though SKSE does nothing wrong, what it does with the game files itself is inherently unsafe. SKSE is malware for Skyrim that benefits the player, but is not something a company would enjoy having on their program, that's why it is better that Bethesda ignores that it exists and just let the player base handle it.

 

Edit: I am not saying that SKSE is bad or will harm your computer. Instead, I am saying that by design it is malware, and as such is not something a company would support doing. Think about it, a company that provides technology must think about stability and security first and foremost, and software that directly opens up a ton of possible security risks is not something a tech company should support. While Script Extenders work in our favor, software like it can provide access to functions or features deliberately hidden by developers. So while I support the SKSE team 100% (I would have liked to help them, if they didn't work with C/C++, not my language), I also understand why Bethesda will not support them.

 

Now to address another argument: Why doesn't Bethesda provide the skse functions already so that the SKSE team will not have to. The problem with this argument is the fact that Bethesda isn't omniscient, they cannot determine what it is we want and then build every single function for it. I mean at the end of the day, even if Bethesda shipped with everything the current SKSE provides, I guarantee you that somebody will need a function that it doesn't provide and the SKSE team will have to make those functions anyway, and we end up with a new script extender with added functions all over again.

There are no "security risks" as there aren't any system level functions that SKSE can use for devious purposes. Besides, if someone were able to fuck around with someone's OS using SKSE, Bethesda would have it shut down in a heartbeat.

 

The worst someone can do with SKSE is cause the game to crash or create save game bloat. That's more of a annoyance then any sort of risk.

Um....read what you just wrote and tell me that isn't a security risk. Come on, you just described 2 stability/security risks. You are so fixated on me calling SKSE malware that you are missing the point of my statements.

 

I am not saying that the SKSE is bad itself, I am saying that the way that SKSE was made opens up a large can of worms and supporting it is bad for legal reasons.

 

Basically SKSE hooks into the game at runtime and adds its own functions that modify/manipulate the game at runtime. While it definitely provides modding with wonderful tools and has allowed the creation of many wonderful mods (I am guessing that this website wouldn't really exist without script extenders), supporting it sets a precedence that Bethesda is fine with people hacking into their game code outside of their provided API to manipulate the game in unintended ways.

 

The problem with this is that if someone creates a mod that has the sole intention of crashing the game, causing save bloat, or worse hiding a virus in the code, Bethesda and not the third party will be held responsible because they allow it to happen.

 

 

So the best thing that they can do to support the script extenders is simply ignoring it.

 

 

I very much like your logic there.

 

[RapidWaterOver]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The way I feel Bethesda missed the boat, and maybe me saying this is dumb (I'm not techy enough to know why it wouldn't be possible) is in not having the script extender ready to go around launch of SSE. Obviously they don't make it, but there's no reason they couldn't have, or at least provided resources to speed up its development. There are many intricate mods that rely on it in some form or another and I feel like Skyrim in particular has done as well as it has for Bethesda because of modding. I kind of assumed when the game was announced that there would be some official coordinated effort to fast track anything that could bottleneck mod development and transitioning for Oldrim.

 

As it is, I still haven't started playing SSE, because I want it to be much nearer to the Skyrim I left behind, and that's not gonna happen for quite some time.

As a software engineer I can explain why they did not do this, and no, you are not dumb for saying this (no such thing as dumb questions, just dumb answers). Basically when you build software, you are given tight time constraints by managers and let's be frank the entitlement of gamers doesn't help the situation much. So when they are creating the functions that the quest scripters or other programmers will use in the engine, they will only be creating the functions they need to use, as to not waste time. The SKSE, while wonderful for modders, is not necessary and unfortunately a waste of time for the developers. The reason being that they will have to spend a lot of extra time creating functions that they themselves will never use, so it ends up being wasted development time, and can slow down the release of the game.

I can see that being true in normal circumstances and by extension, in 99% of game development. I just feel like specifically with this game, and being able to do a modicum of research into the big lynchpin mods of Skyrim, that it would've come up in some way. And maybe it did, I don't actually know anyone from the SKSE team. It's just weird to me because it seems like one of those things that would not take a serious amount of resources to accomplish and would be a big PR win for the game (although it pretty much already had as much of that as it could just by being a 64 bit remake).

I do agree with you, but remember, as much as we love SKSE, Bethesda does not officially support it. Remember SKSE hooks into the game and places code into it at runtime and as such is basically malware. With that in mind Bethesda cannot really support that, as it is both unsafe and brings about a bad precedence that they allow that kind of stuff to modify their game. The best thing that they can do, and what they are currently doing, is just ignore and pretend it doesn't exist, because believe me, if they wanted to they could not only prevent the SKSE from working, but also actively sue the team responsible for it.

SKSE is neither unsafe nor brings any sort of bad precedence. Especially considering that there's been script extenders for every Bethesda Fallout and Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind.

Though SKSE does nothing wrong, what it does with the game files itself is inherently unsafe. SKSE is malware for Skyrim that benefits the player, but is not something a company would enjoy having on their program, that's why it is better that Bethesda ignores that it exists and just let the player base handle it.

 

Edit: I am not saying that SKSE is bad or will harm your computer. Instead, I am saying that by design it is malware, and as such is not something a company would support doing. Think about it, a company that provides technology must think about stability and security first and foremost, and software that directly opens up a ton of possible security risks is not something a tech company should support. While Script Extenders work in our favor, software like it can provide access to functions or features deliberately hidden by developers. So while I support the SKSE team 100% (I would have liked to help them, if they didn't work with C/C++, not my language), I also understand why Bethesda will not support them.

 

Now to address another argument: Why doesn't Bethesda provide the skse functions already so that the SKSE team will not have to. The problem with this argument is the fact that Bethesda isn't omniscient, they cannot determine what it is we want and then build every single function for it. I mean at the end of the day, even if Bethesda shipped with everything the current SKSE provides, I guarantee you that somebody will need a function that it doesn't provide and the SKSE team will have to make those functions anyway, and we end up with a new script extender with added functions all over again.

There are no "security risks" as there aren't any system level functions that SKSE can use for devious purposes. Besides, if someone were able to fuck around with someone's OS using SKSE, Bethesda would have it shut down in a heartbeat.

 

The worst someone can do with SKSE is cause the game to crash or create save game bloat. That's more of a annoyance then any sort of risk.

Um....read what you just wrote and tell me that isn't a security risk. Come on, you just described 2 stability/security risks. You are so fixated on me calling SKSE malware that you are missing the point of my statements.

 

I am not saying that the SKSE is bad itself, I am saying that the way that SKSE was made opens up a large can of worms and supporting it is bad for legal reasons.

 

Basically SKSE hooks into the game at runtime and adds its own functions that modify/manipulate the game at runtime. While it definitely provides modding with wonderful tools and has allowed the creation of many wonderful mods (I am guessing that this website wouldn't really exist without script extenders), supporting it sets a precedence that Bethesda is fine with people hacking into their game code outside of their provided API to manipulate the game in unintended ways.

 

The problem with this is that if someone creates a mod that has the sole intention of crashing the game, causing save bloat, or worse hiding a virus in the code, Bethesda and not the third party will be held responsible because they allow it to happen.

 

So the best thing that they can do to support the script extenders is simply ignoring it.

 

Again that's not a security risk as there isn't any sort of important information or data that is at risk. If you're going to try saying that an application that can cause another one to crash is malware, then you might as well spend all day calling every single software in existence malware since they can all do that.  And SKSE is not the first script extender if you were paying attention to what I said, so saying "supporting it sets a precedence that Bethesda is fine with people hacking into their game code outside of their provided API to manipulate the game in unintended ways" is blatantly false. You seem to not realize that MSE exists, or OBSE, or FOSE, or NVSE, hell I think there's even a script extender for Arena or Daggerfall. Furthermore there is literally no reason to start getting paranoid about people hiding virus in SKSE, because it comes with a source that you can compile yourself (and if youire going to be paranoid about free open source software being a virus you might as well beleive Linux too can hide a virus  ).

 

 

A lovecraftian horror - like entity like Bethesda missing the boat, considering they dominate the market already... ppppfffft!

 

They made Skyrim SE just to get more money from people

And that's not even considering SE is as i've heard, the exact same thing as Skyrim but with better shaders and crap

Oh wait... Didn't mods do that already?

It wasnt even friendly to ENBs...

Yet fanboys and obedient consumers still ran to the shops in hype like it was black friday shop madness...

 

By the moment they release Elder Scrolls VI, the gaming world will definitely go nuts again and their pockets will be as full and profuse as ever and more.

Skyrim Special Edition was free if you already had the base game plus DLC's, which is the majority of people. Really the only ones who didn't get it for free were console users. There are a few benefits of SE to the regular game too - I've heard that it has far better performance (haven't really bothered playing it yet to see if this is true, I'm waiting for SKSE64 before I do)

, you can alt-tab out of the game without it freezing/crashing, it's 64 bit instead of 32 bit, and it has support for Bethesda's gimmicky online modding thing.

 

 

Am I the only person in the world who's always been able to alt-tab Skyrim from its standard fullscreen?

On XP I could do it a maximum of 4 times before the game crashed, on W7 there's never a problem until I get to about 8, even then it only crashes if they happen in quick succession. The only thing that breaks is the Steam framerate counter which sits stubbornly reading 1fps after about the 6th switch. And even that recovers sometimes.

That's what I hear. Personally I never alt-tab out of games, so I technically never experienced crashes or hanges with doing that.

 

 

A lovecraftian horror - like entity like Bethesda missing the boat, considering they dominate the market already... ppppfffft!

 

They made Skyrim SE just to get more money from people

And that's not even considering SE is as i've heard, the exact same thing as Skyrim but with better shaders and crap

Oh wait... Didn't mods do that already?

It wasnt even friendly to ENBs...

Yet fanboys and obedient consumers still ran to the shops in hype like it was black friday shop madness...

 

By the moment they release Elder Scrolls VI, the gaming world will definitely go nuts again and their pockets will be as full and profuse as ever and more.

Skyrim Special Edition was free if you already had the base game plus DLC's, which is the majority of people. Really the only ones who didn't get it for free were console users. There are a few benefits of SE to the regular game too - I've heard that it has far better performance (haven't really bothered playing it yet to see if this is true, I'm waiting for SKSE64 before I do)

, you can alt-tab out of the game without it freezing/crashing, it's 64 bit instead of 32 bit, and it has support for Bethesda's gimmicky online modding thing.

 

 

Am I the only person in the world who's always been able to alt-tab Skyrim from its standard fullscreen?

On XP I could do it a maximum of 4 times before the game crashed, on W7 there's never a problem until I get to about 8, even then it only crashes if they happen in quick succession. The only thing that breaks is the Steam framerate counter which sits stubbornly reading 1fps after about the 6th switch. And even that recovers sometimes.

That's what I hear. Personally I never alt-tab out of games, so I technically never experienced crashes or hangs with doing that.

[Shadowheart328]

 

Again that's not a security risk as there isn't any sort of important information or data that is at risk. If you're going to try saying that an application that can cause another one to crash is malware, then you might as well spend all day calling every single software in existence malware since they can all do that.  And SKSE is not the first script extender if you were paying attention to what I said, so saying "supporting it sets a precedence that Bethesda is fine with people hacking into their game code outside of their provided API to manipulate the game in unintended ways" is blatantly false. You seem to not realize that MSE exists, or OBSE, or FOSE, or NVSE, hell I think there's even a script extender for Arena or Daggerfall. Furthermore there is literally no reason to start getting paranoid about people hiding virus in SKSE, because it comes with a source that you can compile yourself (and if youire going to be paranoid about free open source software being a virus you might as well beleive Linux too can hide a virus  ).

 

 

 

Again my friend you are missing the point, first of all I referenced the other script extenders, when I generally referred to things like SKSE as "Script Extenders". Still you are fixating on the point that I called SKSE Malware, and at least from my programming knowledge, that is exactly what it is, however, it is not used nefariously it is instead used to inject the game with code that provides more functionality for modders.

 

What about my claim is false, supporting script extenders is setting that precedence.

 

Please stop fixating on the whole malware thing, I am not calling the SKSE or any other script extender a virus, I am saying that the method employed by script extenders is not something that a private tech company should support. 

 

Are you a coder? Being open source has nothing to do with the problem at hand. I am not saying that SKSE is a virus, literally how many times do I have to say that in my posts.

 

The reason Bethesda should not support the SKSE has a lot to do with liability, if they support programs like the SKSE, then if an actual group of people want to place a virus into Skyrim utilizing a method similar to how the SKSE works, then Bethesda will have to be liable for the consumer backlash..and not the hacker group, since Bethesda supports people injecting code into their game.

 

I am sure Bethesda knows the importance of the SKSE, but realistically cannot implement it into their game (I already told you why, it has to do with omniscience) and supporting it can place a lot of legal liability on their shoulders. So the best course of action is simply ignore the fact that it exists and let the modding community handle it.

[DoctaSax]

In a way, Beth kinda does support the script extenders already, because most of the documentation on their functions can be found on beth's owned wikis. Not removing that documentation amounts to tacit support, even it was placed there by the modder base. Nothing advertises a script extender as well as a list of all the stuff it does.

 

Still, I feel this discussion's started to go round in circles - and it really just started out as a question of whether Beth's missed the boat when it comes to VR.

[prinyo]

VR is probably the most overhyped thing of 2016. It's not -nearly- there where its makers claim it would be. For starters, they are super expensive and will remain for a while. And there is not a single compelling use case for the things yet. They have yet to create one single application (not only game but ANY application) that would truly benefit from VR. Next, these goggles are about as comfortable as being locked in a pillory. Nobody in their right mind would want to wear one for an extended period of time. And last but not least, people get seasick faster than from riding a rowboat through a hurricane. They can't even let you walk in VR without making you belch your guts out.

 

Honestly? Unless they solve all above problems really fast, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody would even talk about VR at the end of 2017 anymore. The very last thing on the mind of Beth is probably betting on a technology the vast majority of gamers have no plans adopting anytime soon.

 

 

This is now my favorite hate post on LL :-) Every single sentence is a factual lie and looking at the likes it is the most liked hate post I have seen on LL. 

 

The thing missing in it are facts. If you are expressing opinion on something it is good to say how did you get that experience and what led you to this opinion. Which headset and which games/experiences did you try that led you to the opinion you share here?

 

The problem with VR is that it can't be explained or shown on video. You need to experience it in order to understand what it is. And not on a mobile phone. It is really sad that GearVR and Cardboard are the most popular headsets as they give a very wrong idea what VR is about and turn undecided people into non-believers. Especially the gamers.

 

Everything below concerns the PC-based headsets - Vive and Oculus. 

 

 

 

It's not -nearly- there where its makers claim it would be.

It is exactly what it claims to be - a first generation consumer product for early adopters. Nothing more and nothing less - you get what were promised. If you don't have the mindset of an early adopter then it is not for you. It is like a muddy flower garden. If you prefer to concentrate on the mud and are unable to appreciate the flowers then you should not go there. 

 

 

For starters, they are super expensive and will remain for a while.

This is not rue. They are quite reasonably priced for the technology inside. And are quite reasonably priced in comparison with other products. For example a Vive or Oculus+Touch costs about as much as a new TV set or a high end phone. 

 

 

And there is not a single compelling use case for the things yet. They have yet to create one single application (not only game but ANY application) that would truly benefit from VR.

This is the most un-true statement in the whole post. 

There are multiple games/experiences that offer an experience that is possible only in VR. Some of them are mind-breaking. I see the phrase "VR giggle" been used more and more - when the experience makes you laugh as a child. For me it was many many years since last I felt this way. 

TiltBrush, Medium, GoogleEarthVR, Waltz Of The Wizard, Raw Data, Audioshield, the spectator mod for Dota2, Fantastic Contraptions are just a few of the apps that offer experience that is only possible in VR. The only problem is - you need to try them in order to appretiate what exactly do they bring to the table. 

I expect soon there will be mods here for Skyrim and other games that include outfits and accessories hand-drawn and created in TiltBrush.

 

The biggest misconception about VR is that it is two screens strapped to your face. The real power of VR is in the tracked position and hands. The mind-blowing part is that you can feel inside of the virtual world because you can actually walk around and you can do things with your own real hands. 

 

Next, these goggles are about as comfortable as being locked in a pillory. Nobody in their right mind would want to wear one for an extended period of time.

For me it is comparable to wearing a ski mask. But your logic is a bit like not going out in the winter because it is cold and you need to wear heavy and usually uncomfortable clothes. There are probably people that would agree with that. And there are others who enjoy all the fun the winter can provide them. As a said before - it is a question of mindset and a way to look at the world. 

 

 

And last but not least, people get seasick faster than from riding a rowboat through a hurricane. They can't even let you walk in VR without making you belch your guts out.

This is factually incorrect as the vast majority of the VR games and experiences will not make you sick. Some will, but they are exceptions. There is a controversy in the VR world about the "babysitting" - the developers are too afraid to lose customers and use different techniques to avoid causing motion sickness. But many many people simply do not suffer from it, others get their VR legs quickly. There are already many things known about how to combat the motion sickness and most products use them. 

It is ironic that the motion sickness is an own-goal argument for the VR haters. If it was a gimmick then people would not suffer from it. The fact that VR has the potential to cause it means that it is good enough to fool the brain - it actually really works. 

Also the motion sickness is a part of life. If people were so afraid of it there would be no sailing, no ships, nothing that can cause sea sickness. 

 

 

The very last thing on the mind of Beth is probably betting on a technology the vast majority of gamers have no plans adopting anytime soon.

Again factually wrong. Bethesda is working on a native FO4 VR game that is expected in the next 6 months. The cynic in me has an explanation about that, but the fact remains. 

Also if you follow TH's interviews they are waiting for VR to mature a bit, see what new opportunities it brings and then start working on TES6.  The way porting Skyrim was a way for them to test stuff before working on FO4, FO4VR will be the testing ground for the new Elder Scrolls. 

 

 

There are actual real problems with the first generation headsets - FOV, SDE, cables, sweat. But they were not in your post. So I can guess you have never actually tried it. 

In the end I want to return to my earlier example - VR is like a muddy flower garden. If you want to see only the mud or if you want to see only the flowers - you are not seen the whole picture. 

 

 

 

Added:

I didn't say anything about PSVR. A company that is selling you a 400 euro console with the promise it runs 4K games as a high-end PC. Why would they approach VR differently? As far as I'm concerned people are free to hate PS, PSVR, consoles, console VR and Sony as much as they want. 

[Shadowheart328]

In a way, Beth kinda does support the script extenders already, because most of the documentation on their functions can be found on beth's owned wikis. Not removing that documentation amounts to tacit support, even it was placed there by the modder base. Nothing advertises a script extender as well as a list of all the stuff it does.

 

Still, I feel this discussion's started to go round in circles - and it really just started out as a question of whether Beth's missed the boat when it comes to VR.

This is true, but also works in Beth's favor since it is all player added, they don't have to claim responsibility for it. As it is wiki, anyone can edit it, so those tend to fall out of court rulings (except wiki-leaks, that was the exception).

 

I apologize for my part in bringing it off topic, my bad.

[prinyo]

I am starting to wonder if by waiting so long to make the next "Skyrim", Bethesda shot themselves in the foot.  I purchased the Oculus Rift with the Touch controllers and I must say even with the limited amount of games and media, I was still blown away for lack of another term.  I have been trying them out on all kinds of games, even some adult featured ones, and its pretty incredible.  I have torn myself away from my Skyrim game for about a week and tried to come back today, and I must say it was hard to get excited about it, and I even got tired of it after about 30 min.  So I wonder, if VR takes off like everyone is saying it will, is Bethesda going to pay for waiting so long to bring out ES6.  I know that for myself, going back to a 2D game is going to be very hard.  The only hope I have now for ES6, is if it was VR, and that aint happening.  It would be easier to send a man to the moon than to make a Skyrim VR.

 

It is exactly the opposite - Bethesda was the first big name to jump on the VR boat. 

FO4VR and DOOM VR were announced in June 2016 

FO4VR is expected to be released  within several months - first half of 2017. 

 

The only other big name studio that has announced VR projects is Ubisoft. They have released 3 games for now.  

However Bethesda's intent is to put the whole FO4 game in VR and it is quite understandable it takes longer. 

 

There is no official info about SkyrimVR - a port of SEE with VR support. I think they need to be crazy not to make it.

 

 

You can play Skyrim in VR now using VorpX (it costs 30 euro). The new version of VorpX that was released 2 weeks ago adds positional tracking and motion controller mapping so you can kind of play it room-scale. It is not perfect but it is not bad eather. The guy who makes it said he is experimenting with enabling full room scale for more games and making it more stable.

One of the biggest nerdgasms in my life is when I first entered Skyrim. A small thing that got me amazed was when I was looking at the NPC's and realized I'm quite tall. I - as in "me myself", no some toon on a screen, am a tall person in Skyrim. Hmm. I never payed attention to how tall my PC is. This was one of my most personal experiences with (in) Skyrim and I remember it because that was one of the times I said "shit is real".

[prinyo]

 

I found myself sick for 3 hours after I first tried the Oculus rift... and the Vive was exactly the same.

 

What did you play? 

I see a trend of VR owners entertaining themselves by demoing their headsets to people using games and experiences that are not really appropriate for VRgins. For example the PSVR crowd is enjoying showing the RE7 demo and laughing at people screaming and trying to escape the chair :-)

Whoever selected your first VR experiences didn't do a good job.

 

 

 

 

Well, at least in Sueinmax Media is interested, since they have a court case that part of Oculus software belongs to them since Carmack worked for on it on his free time while still employed by id.

 

The cynic in me thinks this is the reason Beth is working on big VR projects. Carmack says Zenimax was not interested in his ideas about VR and didn't want to get involved with it. And that is the reason he went to Palmer. I think now Zenimax wants to show the world that they are indeed interested in VR and are actively working on it.

After all Oculus is telling the court and the world that Zenimax "did not have the vision, expertise, or patience to build" it's own VR product.

And of course there is the fact hat any VR AAA game released now is a mid to long term investment as it will keep selling for the years to come.

 

 

 

Too early for VR and what we got are just tech demos with the AAA price, they are mostly technology showcases.

 

Well, if a flat AAA game takes more than 3 years to create why would it be faster for VR?

But I do enjoy the fact that there are lots of small experiences and demos. It is like in an al-you-can-eat restaurant where you get to taste everything they have to offer. There are quite a lot of different games and experiences now - that show you different worlds, different things. Even if there are no games to keep you immersed for tens or hundreds of hours there are lots of small games to show you new cool stuff. The inventions and experiments in the VR are extremely interesting and satisfying for me as a geek to witness. 

[Kimy]

 

VR is probably the most overhyped thing of 2016. It's not -nearly- there where its makers claim it would be. For starters, they are super expensive and will remain for a while. And there is not a single compelling use case for the things yet. They have yet to create one single application (not only game but ANY application) that would truly benefit from VR. Next, these goggles are about as comfortable as being locked in a pillory. Nobody in their right mind would want to wear one for an extended period of time. And last but not least, people get seasick faster than from riding a rowboat through a hurricane. They can't even let you walk in VR without making you belch your guts out.

 

Honestly? Unless they solve all above problems really fast, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody would even talk about VR at the end of 2017 anymore. The very last thing on the mind of Beth is probably betting on a technology the vast majority of gamers have no plans adopting anytime soon.

 

 

This is now my favorite hate post on LL :-) Every single sentence is a factual lie and looking at the likes it is the most liked hate post I have seen on LL. 

 

Yours is now my favourite bullshit post on LL. Reasons follow:

 

The thing missing in it are facts. If you are expressing opinion on something it is good to say how did you get that experience and what led you to this opinion. Which headset and which games/experiences did you try that led you to the opinion you share here?

 

For starters, a post complaining about the absence of "facts" not containing a single quote of its own and/or numbers to support its claim on absolute truth is fantastic. It really made my day! The way you are replying to my stated opinion (really, where did I ever claim my posting to be a scientific study?) rather suggest you are a self-righteous aggressive jerk who doesn't even practice what they preach.

 

But you asked for facts, so here we go:

It's not -nearly- there where its makers claim it would be.

It is exactly what it claims to be - a first generation consumer product for early adopters. Nothing more and nothing less - you get what were promised. If you don't have the mindset of an early adopter then it is not for you. It is like a muddy flower garden. If you prefer to concentrate on the mud and are unable to appreciate the flowers then you should not go there. 

 

"First generation", eh? Well, apparently that's not how its own makers are marketing it:

 

Ocluus calls the Rift a next-generation thing, actually (Source: https://www3.oculus.com/en-us/rift/)And the language used by HTC don't exactly suggest that it's a pioneer product either: "VIVE was developed by HTC and Valve to deliver on the promise of VR"  (Source: https://www.vive.com/ca/)

 

 

For starters, they are super expensive and will remain for a while.

This is not rue. They are quite reasonably priced for the technology inside. And are quite reasonably priced in comparison with other products. For example a Vive or Oculus+Touch costs about as much as a new TV set or a high end phone. 

 

Maybe you are a member of the 1% and grew up with Daddy's gold card in your pocket. The rest of us might consider investments of about $800 (Rift + controllers, Source: https://www3.oculus.com/en-us/rift/)something we'd think about before spending. And that's assuming you already have the kind of high-end PC that can even run the things (Look here for giggles: https://www3.oculus.com/en-us/oculus-ready-pcs/).

 

But I guess it's a matter of perspective.

 

And there is not a single compelling use case for the things yet. They have yet to create one single application (not only game but ANY application) that would truly benefit from VR.

This is the most un-true statement in the whole post. 

Oh, is that so? I guess these people are all wrong then:

 

http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/18/vrars-biggest-obstacle-lack-of-content/

https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/03/virtual-reality-is-about-to-go-mainstream-but-a-lack-of-content-threatens-to-hold-it-back/

 

Gosh, even VR fans see the problem: http://www.virtualrealitytimes.com/2016/09/10/will-vr-die-again-before-a-killer-app-is-found/

 

But yeah, I am factually wrong! Me and these people are all making this up. Gotcha!

 

 

Next, these goggles are about as comfortable as being locked in a pillory. Nobody in their right mind would want to wear one for an extended period of time.

For me it is comparable to wearing a ski mask. But your logic is a bit like not going out in the winter because it is cold and you need to wear heavy and usually uncomfortable clothes. There are probably people that would agree with that. And there are others who enjoy all the fun the winter can provide them. As a said before - it is a question of mindset and a way to look at the world. 

 

Comparing a VR set to a pair of ski goggles is hilarious (I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant goggles and not the mask, which is a piece of fabric that doesn't weigh anything noticeable.) Really? I will just let the numbers speak for themselves:

 

Weight of an Oculus Rift: 470 gr (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift)

Weight of a Vive: 550 gr (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Vive)

Weight of an average pair of ski goggles: 125 gr. https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5022-960/Mojo-Goggles

 

You really enjoy trolling, right?

 

And last but not least, people get seasick faster than from riding a rowboat through a hurricane. They can't even let you walk in VR without making you belch your guts out.

This is factually incorrect as the vast majority of the VR games and experiences will not make you sick.

 

Factually incorrect huh? Oh well, I guess all this is just made up then:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_sickness

http://www.livescience.com/54478-why-vr-makes-you-sick.html

http://www.networkworld.com/article/3074133/consumer-electronics/virtual-reality-expert-doesnt-see-an-easy-fix-for-vr-nausea.html

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/virtual-reality-still-5-big-problems-overcome/

 

Are you even for real?

 

Also the motion sickness is a part of life. If people were so afraid of it there would be no sailing, no ships, nothing that can cause sea sickness. 

I have a fairly advanced case of motion sickness. Guess what I do? I avoid the things that make me nauseous! Do you think I am stupid enough to expose me to the exact conditions that would trigger my condition? Thank you very much! Are you suggesting people with celiac disease should happily munch gluten products too, because they are a part of life?

 

The last statement actually convinced me beyond any reasonable doubt that you're a troll. That or a blind fanboy/-girl. Take your pick!

 

[Zor2k13]

I don't think VR will work the way it is now simply because it needs face jimmies to work otherwise you get some kind of terrible eye disease or some kind of eye problem? Nobody wants that problem and imagine at minimum 1 million people using it what is the percentage of people getting eye gaming STDs from it? There has to be some percentage to it and the last thing anyone wants to do is fuck up their eyes you just can't really do anything in life without your eyes maybe some things with only one eye but both gone? Shit yer screwed then. Only way around it I can see is get rid of the touching parts of the goggles and cover the head with a hood or something that can block light around the eye screens or develop the tech so the light blocking parts are not needed but everyone sees the filthy porn you are lookin at. That microsoft visor thing might not have been such a bad idea then for this issue.

[peculiaris]

 

 

I found myself sick for 3 hours after I first tried the Oculus rift... and the Vive was exactly the same.

 

What did you play? 

I see a trend of VR owners entertaining themselves by demoing their headsets to people using games and experiences that are not really appropriate for VRgins. For example the PSVR crowd is enjoying showing the RE7 demo and laughing at people screaming and trying to escape the chair :-)

Whoever selected your first VR experiences didn't do a good job.

 

I tried Space Pirate Trainer, and some other generic rock climbing game I can't remember the name of.

 

It's not that my experience was bad it's the fact that my bodies goes into panic mode when I think I'm moving but I'm just standing still.

Same kinda problem with roller coasters, so yeah I can't physically enjoy VR isn't that fun. 

[prinyo]

 

I tried Space Pirate Trainer, and some other generic rock climbing game I can't remember the name of.

 

It's not that my experience was bad it's the fact that my bodies goes into panic mode when I think I'm moving but I'm just standing still.

Same kinda problem with roller coasters, so yeah I can't physically enjoy VR isn't that fun. 

 

 

 

Space Pirate Trainer can't make you sick because it is a standing in place game. It can however be too disorienting for a first time users as it requires constantly looking around and can be too dynamic. Climbey will make you sick for sure and if you happen to have scare of heights it can totally wreck you. 

I don't know details about the Oculus games because they are exclusives but I have a set of games that I use when demoing the Vive and the first few of them require almost no movement. Space Pirate Trainer expects you to have full control of your VR body. That's why I usually start people with Waltz of the wizard where you mostly use you hands to do stuff and Audioshild which is more dynamic and helps you get in sync with your "VR you".

 

Basically the movement with constant speed doesn't make you sick. It is the acceleration and deceleration that do. In a coaster simulator when it travels with a constant speed you will be fine. This is also what makes Climbey problematic for most people. 

[prinyo]

 

[ ... ]

 

Wow, I felt like your post was written with my blood. That's a lot of hate. 

What your post proved is that you haven't really tried VR and are selectively reading op-eds that confirm your hate. 

 

I have a friend that has nut allergy, What he does is he avoids foods that contain nuts. What he does not do is go to the supermarket and start shouting at everybody who buys such food and demands those foods get removed. 

 

It is great that you don't travel on water. But do you go to ports to shout at people that they should not get on the ship because it will make them sick and ruin their life? As far as I know many people enjoy going on cruises and travel the seas of the world, regardless of how you personally feel about that.

 

So if you hate VR so strongly and if you are so sure it will make you sick you should definitely avoid it. 

 

But as I said - if you only see the mud, or if you only see the flowers - you are not seeing the whole picture. 

 

 

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about the price. I didn't say it is cheap. I said it is not "super expensive". The headsets are priced adequately to the tech they contain and in comparison to similar products. This is the fact. Everything else is speculations. 

I'm not saying everybody can afford a new TV. I live in Holland and everywhere around me I see people with the latest high-end phones. The price of a Vive or Oculus is quite OK for most of the people (not all, of course) in the first world countries. Of course there are people that pay 1k euro for a 4K TV and others that think this is madness and are quite happy with their old TV sets. Why do you expect me to argue about things like that? 

 

Did you even read what I said about the motion sickness? I never said VR can't make you sick. I said that the majority of the games you can buy or get for free will not. They are made in ways to avoid that.

But there are many people who do not suffer from motion sickness and many who get over it so there is also a market for games that don't care about the problem. 

This is the major problem for the VR industry now and there are lots of research and experiments. Some of the links you posted are for texts written in March last year. Many things have changed since then. 

All the media drama around the VR sickness started when gaming and iT journalists were shown different VR demos. Some of those demos were not optimized, others were simply too overwhelming for first time users. I can add many more links for journalists complaining about motion sickness. They were all shown the same demos. More than 2/3 of the games will not make you sick. That was in direct response to you claiming that it is impossible at all move around in VR without puking.

 

The first 30 - 60 minutes in VR are quite important for a new user to get accommodated to the new realities around him. 

 

Then the point about the 300 g difference... You said "these goggles are about as comfortable as being locked in a pillory". I didn't know you are talking about weight. If you think 500 gram is too heavy I'm not going to argue about something like this. 

 

 

 

The full name of the Oculus headset is CV1 ! This stands for Oculus Consumer Version 1. It is in the name of the product! It is "a next-generation thing" because this is the 3rd Ocukus headset after the 2 developer versions. So it is a next gen Oculus - the first generation of the consumer version. 

I can't see anything on the Vive site that the Vive doesn't actually deliver.

 

 

And there is the thing about the VR potential. In response to me listing several games that offer experiences that are not possible outside of VR you are presenting me with an amazing collection of "facts" like this : http://www.virtualrealitytimes.com/2016/09/10/will-vr-die-again-before-a-killer-app-is-found/

 

It was an interesting read written in compliance with all rules of the contemporary shitposting. The specialists quoted there say things like:

 

"Fuck this gimmicky VR bs. Lame, it’s for idiot geeks like yourself with no life. Get outside if you wanna play paintball you dumb fuck. Boring ass games with no purpose"

(Did the interview my drunken grandpa?)

and

"ProTip: Never buy new technology after it is released"

 

The whole thing is random people saying random things. 

Internet is full with wannabee journalists and media. The fact that a site has VR in the name means nothing. A shitpost is a shitpost. It is not hard to recognize it. 

 

For everybody who is interested in actual facts, in my previous post I have listed games that provide unique VR experience. 

 

 

If you want to get a better picture about what is going on in VR today the best place are the 2 subs :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/

Peoiple there are openly discussing all the good and bad things in VR today. 

 

And again: VR is in an early adopter phase. If you don't have this mindset and if you are not a geek been excited about watching the human innovation and genius at work, you are not going to like it. 

[Gameplayer]

 

 

[ ... ]

 

Wow, I felt like your post was written with my blood. That's a lot of hate. 

What your post proved is that you haven't really tried VR and are selectively reading op-eds that confirm your hate. 

 

I have a friend that has nut allergy, What he does is he avoids foods that contain nuts. What he does not do is go to the supermarket and start shouting at everybody who buys such food and demands those foods get removed. 

 

It is great that you don't travel on water. But do you go to ports to shout at people that they should not get on the ship because it will make them sick and ruin their life? As far as I know many people enjoy going on cruises and travel the seas of the world, regardless of how you personally feel about that.

 

So if you hate VR so strongly and if you are so sure it will make you sick you should definitely avoid it. 

 

But as I said - if you only see the mud, or if you only see the flowers - you are not seeing the whole picture. 

 

 

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about the price. I didn't say it is cheap. I said it is not "super expensive". The headsets are priced adequately to the tech they contain and in comparison to similar products. This is the fact. Everything else is speculations. 

I'm not saying everybody can afford a new TV. I live in Holland and everywhere around me I see people with the latest high-end phones. The price of a Vive or Oculus is quite OK for most of the people (not all, of course) in the first world countries. Of course there are people that pay 1k euro for a 4K TV and others that think this is madness and are quite happy with their old TV sets. Why do you expect me to argue about things like that? 

 

Did you even read what I said about the motion sickness? I never said VR can't make you sick. I said that the majority of the games you can buy or get for free will not. They are made in ways to avoid that.

But there are many people who do not suffer from motion sickness and many who get over it so there is also a market for games that don't care about the problem. 

This is the major problem for the VR industry now and there are lots of research and experiments. Some of the links you posted are for texts written in March last year. Many things have changed since then. 

All the media drama around the VR sickness started when gaming and iT journalists were shown different VR demos. Some of those demos were not optimized, others were simply too overwhelming for first time users. I can add many more links for journalists complaining about motion sickness. They were all shown the same demos. More than 2/3 of the games will not make you sick. That was in direct response to you claiming that it is impossible at all move around in VR without puking.

 

The first 30 - 60 minutes in VR are quite important for a new user to get accommodated to the new realities around him. 

 

Then the point about the 300 g difference... You said "these goggles are about as comfortable as being locked in a pillory". I didn't know you are talking about weight. If you think 500 gram is too heavy I'm not going to argue about something like this. 

 

 

 

The full name of the Oculus headset is CV1 ! This stands for Oculus Consumer Version 1. It is in the name of the product! It is "a next-generation thing" because this is the 3rd Ocukus headset after the 2 developer versions. So it is a next gen Oculus - the first generation of the consumer version. 

I can't see anything on the Vive site that the Vive doesn't actually deliver.

 

 

And there is the thing about the VR potential. In response to me listing several games that offer experiences that are not possible outside of VR you are presenting me with an amazing collection of "facts" like this : http://www.virtualrealitytimes.com/2016/09/10/will-vr-die-again-before-a-killer-app-is-found/

 

It was an interesting read written in compliance with all rules of the contemporary shitposting. The specialists quoted there say things like:

 

"Fuck this gimmicky VR bs. Lame, it’s for idiot geeks like yourself with no life. Get outside if you wanna play paintball you dumb fuck. Boring ass games with no purpose"

(Did the interview my drunken grandpa?)

and

"ProTip: Never buy new technology after it is released"

 

The whole thing is random people saying random things. 

Internet is full with wannabee journalists and media. The fact that a site has VR in the name means nothing. A shitpost is a shitpost. It is not hard to recognize it. 

 

For everybody who is interested in actual facts, in my previous post I have listed games that provide unique VR experience. 

 

 

If you want to get a better picture about what is going on in VR today the best place are the 2 subs :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/

Peoiple there are openly discussing all the good and bad things in VR today. 

 

And again: VR is in an early adopter phase. If you don't have this mindset and if you are not a geek been excited about watching the human innovation and genius at work, you are not going to like it. 

 

 

No you lost, your way off topic besides and more than adequate reasons have been given by Kimy with backing.

Its done, and now here Im reading how its like you feel a need to defend VR, well go start some other thread.

 

This threads topic was about if Bethsada missed the VR boat.

Seems like it wasn't a boat worth catching, and really that was all that mattered for this topic.

Really no more proof or opinion is needed.

 

[Darkpig]

Hoho! An Elder Scrolls version of Pokémon Go would be hilarious. Explore Tamriel while exploring your neighborhood. Sadly it would not work too well.

[Captain Cobra]

VR is a meme, Augmented reality is the future.

[nufndash]

Opps, I didn't mean to stir up so much hate.  I knew all this negative press even before I purchased the Rift, and most of it I agree with 100%, but I had to see for myself.  I have built 3 businesses from the ground up and have done very well for myself so it wasn't Dad's money I used.  It cost about the same as my graphics card, so not too bad, but yes for the average gamer in school, probably too pricey right now.  Skyrim actually got me into gaming and I have purchased everything Bethesda came out with since Oblivion.  I love my Skyrim, and almost everyday I do something with it, if only to try out a new mod.  But if you look back on the gaming progress over say the last 20 years, the one thing that MOST but not all, games try to improve upon, is realism.  When I put on the Oculus for the first time, I wasn't worried about how it felt, or how lame the game was that I was playing, or if it made me sick after hours of playing, I was interested in what kind of potential there was.  If you had two Skyrim games side by side, one you had to push the mouse button to arm your sword, or two, you had to physically make the motion of drawing your sword.  One you push E to open a door, or two you have to reach out and turn the nob.  If you are fighting a troll, would you rather strafe your mouse, or turn your head to see a mud crab coming up behind you to pinch you in the ass.  I have my Skyrim game looking incredible, and the graphics inside a cave or house are incredible, but wouldn't you like to actually be standing in that cave?  These are things VR can give you now in limited scope, now here is a revised question  from my original post.  

 

From what I have heard, but I have no inside information to back it up, is that Bethesda has not even officially started on ES6 yet.  No one really knows when we could see a finished ES6, so are we looking at late 2017, or possibly well into 2018.  In that long, or very long, timescale, will VR advance enough to affect the popularity of a new ES6.  This was only meant for some light off the cuff discussion in hypothetical land.  Truth be told, I will probably be one of the crazies, camping out in front of Best Buy to get the first copy of ES6 at midnight.  But I can still dream of having a VR Skyrim, and of course my flying car everyone promised me by 2010.

[gurugeorge]

I don't think VR is going to take over the world, but I don't think it's totally going to be a gimmick either, I think it will find a strong niche in any sort of game that has you in a cockpit or cabin of some sort - driving games, mech games, flight sims, space games.  That gets rid of the seasickness element for everybody, so everybody who enjoys those types of games will probably play them in VR.

 

The seasickness seems to be tied to the fact that the visual part of your brain is telling you you're moving with your feet (therefore engaging a whole load of balancing subsystems that aren't getting traction) while another part stubbornly resists the illusion (thereby confuzzling said subsystems causing a feeling of vertigo).  That's my abstract guess anyway.  That's unlikely to be cracked with anything you can do with a headset, it will need the proverbial brain-machine interface, so that the part of the brain that thinks it's still can be neutralized somehow.

 

So, yeah, VR will be huge for certain game genres, probably in a permanent way, but anything where you actually play an avatar that moves around on shank's pony is not going to be viable for too big a minority of players (although third-person games might be enjoyable for some).  For that, screen 3-d with glasses is the way forward for those who want it, but that's been around for a while and it's not been taken up in a big way (probably because you need powerful and extra expensive monitors, which the move to 4k is likely to make even more expensive relatively speaking).

 

So yeah, VR will be huge, but not for first-person/third-person shooters, so Bethesda needn't worry.

[prinyo]

 

From what I have heard, but I have no inside information to back it up, is that Bethesda has not even officially started on ES6 yet.  No one really knows when we could see a finished ES6, so are we looking at late 2017, or possibly well into 2018.  In that long, or very long, timescale, will VR advance enough to affect the popularity of a new ES6. 

 

What we know is:

 

https://gamerant.com/elder-scrolls-6-confirmed-bethesda/

 

"... Bethesda’s chief game creator Todd Howard revealed that “it’s good in these moments to tell our fans, ‘Yes, of course we are [making The Elder Scrolls 6]. It’s something we love.’ But it is–you know, I have to be careful what I say–it’s a very long way off.”"

 

"Howard further explained that “I could sit here and explain the game to you, and you would say, ‘That sounds like you don’t even have the technology–how long is that going to take?’” The Bethesda executive also says that the developer has “two other large projects we’re also doing that are bigger than anything we’ve done.” Fans will “probably” hear about these two major projects before they hear about The Elder Scrolls 6, adds Howard, “and that’ll make sense many years from now.”"

 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/747286/The-Elder-Scrolls-6-Fallout-5-Bethesda-Online

 

"Bethesda marketing boss Pete Hines told Twitter followers earlier this year that Elder Scrolls Online wouldn’t impact the development of Elder Scrolls 6.

Unfortunately, however, he said that the studio have other plans before Elder Scrolls 6 goes into full development, which means it's likely to be without a release date for quite some time.

Hines said: "The studio is working on what they want to work on. they have other plans before they get to TES6.""

 

 

 

You can read this any way you want. My personal way of understanding it is - I assume it takes at least 3 years of actual development and I assume they will release the games the are working on now in 2017 and 2018. For me that means TES6 will come at some point after 2021.