Lovers Animations Workshop - New Thread

[legit1337]

@TDA

 

Can you provide the animation in that video? The one in the overhaul pack is slightly different, and am wondering where you got that one.

[movomo]

No offense Thatone, from what I read however you don't look like in any good mood.

Instead of arguing over an old post of an other guy, I believe we can have more constructive conversation.

So, if I rework the weightpaints of the tongue and the troll penis by hand, will this make folks happy, including you?

[D_ManXX2]

Y'know, I could be a jerk and not reply, as my last post here said 'ThatOne out', but I'm in a good mood after a game of DotA2.

Besides, you have a point that perhaps I shouldn't so lightly dismiss; the language barrier could very well be the source of the argument.

 

So, in an effort to understand I'll ask you to translate this sentence for me, in a cohesive way that's not provocative or offensive in the context of the argument on the last page:

 

with my (adapted) skeleton and meshes that are, and (adapted) LPK system.

 

If you could manage that, then:

1. I will have to wonder what dark magic you're using.

2. Depending on the meaning of the translation you provide, I might reconsider my decision to stop releasing my works.

 

I think you misinterpret TDA, he says, adapted skeleton and meshes, and he uses 3dmax. You never said program you are using ??

 

As an animator everyone uses different things to start animating, me i have adapted meshes and skeleton too so i can rig full skeleton before start animating. 3dmax works totally different then blender.

 

I sometime make manual adaption of weightpaint so part of mesh animate better with skeleton bone etc..

He may also use the skeleton and mesh from here and then manually weightpainted the part better for him to start animating, many animators do this some even use shapekey etc..

 

If you would have asked him nicely maybe he would have released his adapted mesh and skeleton.

you never asked him to release adapted parts. you just attacked him instead.

[TDA]

@TDA

 

Can you provide the animation in that video? The one in the overhaul pack is slightly different, and am wondering where you got that one.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/j3b2wn1guxm0u1i/_new_01_forFP.7z

 

(yesterday, mediafire gave out  an error for that file, I had no time to understand this.)

 

 

 

 

 

with my (adapted) skeleton and meshes that are, and (adapted) LPK system.

 

If you could manage that, then:

1. I will have to wonder what dark magic you're using.

2. Depending on the meaning of the translation you provide, I might reconsider my decision to stop releasing my works.

I just use =SpringMagic= script for 3DsMax ....

 

(Why tongue animate manually? I just used the script and chose a good bunch of animation - This is a set animation keys in time.)

 

As for the skeleton, I took an old skeleton  and transplanted tongue bones to it

[Guest ThatOne]

-Edit- Should be mentioned that I was still typing while TDA made his post. I did not read it. -Edit-

 

Movomo, sorry, but a little too late I'm afraid.

 

If you're a gentle soul, and a little bit of internet venom will harm you, please don't read this post. Because I feel well within my rights to be angry by now.

 

D_ManXX2, I guess you haven't bothered reading too many of my posts, because if you did read my posts you'd understand my way of thinking.

Of course, the alternative is that you have, and you just wanted to upset me further. Which, on reflection, wouldn't surprise at all me considering the fact that there's literally five - wait, no, Movomo offered to help; make that six - people who would be willing to help me on these forums when I need them (and zero when I don't).

 

And yes, this post will paint me as an ass-hole. I don't care.

 

 

 

So apparently, I attacked TDA. Please do accept my humblest apo- Wait. No. Sorry, that's not going to happen.

 

Pardon my common sense and dignity, but I won't put up with this charade any longer. If it means I'll have to develop my own upgrades to the Lovers system, make my own damn animations and my own models then so be it.

 

Since you seem so incapable of understanding what happened, let me walk you through it:

-I got bad resources; the stripped version of the Lovers workshop skeleton has a malfunctioning version of the tongue bones (according to Gerra6 - and hey, he's right, because I tried the normal skeleton and it works). The troll... I won't even waste words.

-I made a rant post, mostly because I thought Gerra6 wasn't actively modding (I only saw one or two of his recent posts which gave me the illusion he only infrequently visits). In my post I provided criticism, with pictures to support my claims.

-TDA countered my post with three words: 'Tongue works normal'. Essentially dismissing everything I said with what is more commonly known as a five year old's 'Everything-proof-shield'.

-I obviously got upset that my hard work providing said criticism was dismissed so easily, and made another post expressing that.

-TDA posted the sentence which I will now quote for the third and final time: 'with my (adapted) skeleton and meshes that are, and (adapted) LPK system.' In other words, he told me he had adapted resources that made things work (while I didn't), and that fact made my (again, standard, not adapted) version work. Now, I'll try to simple this down for you:

If 'a' is the adaptation and 'X' is the base resource:
aX = X
Where
X != 0
And
a != 1

-Now you're telling me I attacked him.

 

Now, I hope you're following me, because I'm about to drop the bomb: in no place in his first post did he even once mention that the tongue he was using was adapted. In no place did he mention that the stripped skeleton wasn't functional. I had to get that info from Gerra6, who apparently had to check the skeleton himself to find that out.

In no way could I have known from his first post that he had adapted resources. It wasn't mentioned at all. His first post was purely, completely and entirely a 100% dismissal of my post without any kind of argument to back it up in the most childish of ways.

And you know what that's called? I'll tell you: provocation. It has only one intention, and that is to make you angry.

 

By his second post, I was already angry. Now, this may blow your mind, but if you make a guy upset with you he won't ask you for favors.

 

 

So I guess TDA can now say "Mission fucking accomplished!" and raise the flag of victory; I'm angry, and I'm leaving the forums, and all you get out of it is less animations. So I hope it was worth it.

 

Yes, I am expecting this post to be reported. Yes, I am expecting a ban. But that's exactly what I want right now; I gave and I gave to this community, and when once I ask for a correction to a terrible resource so that I can better give - this is what I get.

 

So you know what? Fuck it. I'm leaving. This isn't worth it.

 

So now, in a final dick-move, please allow me to change my policy on my works: YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SHARE,  REDISTRIBUTED, REUPLOADED, MODIFY OR USE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, IN PART OR IN FULL. THIS OVERRIDES ALL THE READMES AND ANY PREVIOUS PERMISSIONS.

Farewell, gentlemen.

[TDA]

If 'a' is the adaptation and 'X' is the base resource:
aX = X
Where
X != 0
And
a != 1

This rule applies only in elementary algebra ....

 

but in algebraic combinatorics may be true

 

I understood little of your post, but do as you please.

(I went to play WarZ ...)

[legit1337]

What is this I don't even...

[gerra6]

Thatone, this is entirely unnecessary drama.  If you wish to leave and take your ball with you, that is certainly your prerogative.

 

However, I would request that you not misrepresent the content of private conversations between myself and you.

 

As I stated in my PM to you, you appear to be angry at TDA over my mistake.  When the skeleton was being developed, I was maintaining multiple versions for different purposes.  The only person actually testing and using the tongue mesh and bones was TDA, and as a result the version of the skeleton that I modified for TDA had the most up-to-date versions of those bones.

 

The version of the tongue bones in the lovers workshop skeleton appears to be missing some of the the bug-fixes.  I originally believed that I had included them in the skeleton, but that does not appear to have been the case.  As such TDA's responses have been correct, TDA had a version of the same skeleton that worked as intended, and had no way of knowing that the version you were using had an earlier revision of the bones.

 

So, be as mad at me as you want, but kindly don't misrepresent my words to fuel a vendetta against another person.

[movomo]

I can't follow this strange flow either.

[Grumpf]

Jee kids, what's going here? 

 

Parzysty, Movomo (about facial animation see previous page, yeah I'm late, I know...) : I agree that a very animations have good expressions but I respectfully disagree with Thatone that it is easily done. I will prefer anytime to start a new animation than to fix facial expressions. Here are two good examples of facial animations (in my humble opinion).

 

http://www.naughtymachinima.com/video/6172/Claudias-little-secret-Gold-edition-WIP5

http://www.naughtymachinima.com/video/6551/Claudias-little-secret-Gold-edition (you have to skip until you can see her face for this one duh!).

 

This took a lot of time as there's no real tool. You have to know at what frame the expression starts and just test until satisfied, one expression by one and some animations contains 6 to 7 "moments" each having 4 to 5 lines... I discovered that adding more than 9 lines usually doesn't work (my only contribution to the CS wiki...). And the order is important... In short: it's a mess if you want a complex expression.

 

Gerra worked on a scripted facial animation injector some time ago but then he caught the Mexican hat dance and ABANDONED ME!!! (just kidding just kidding, guys chillout!).

 

For the tongue and mesh weighting, I must also admit full guilt in the confusing process as my animated penis bones (years I waited to use that sentence) added a lot of complications  to animations. But OTOH it leads to things like :

 

http://www.naughtymachinima.com/video/8027/claudia-s-little-secret-gold-edition-pos56

http://www.naughtymachinima.com/video/7983/claudia-s-little-secret-gold-edition-pos55-addition (clearly after 1:20)

Or idles like that:

 

http://www.naughtymachinima.com/video/7387/idles-animations

 

By the way, I'll need to release the ß ASAP as I feel the urge to visit Mexico (PJ here).

 

I'm going to catch up with the thread and continue my wall of text later...

 

TLDR; Let me try to help with weighting/Bones and facial expressions but must read thread first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[movomo]

lol! That was good.

 

By the way, I'll have to appreciate my government for not banning the NaughtyMachinima...

(I use Ultraserf to access LL and it doesn't allow visiting N.M.)

[gerra6]

Gerra worked on a scripted facial animation injector some time ago but then he caught the Mexican hat dance and ABANDONED ME!!! (just kidding just kidding, guys chillout!).

Fair enough. Pose Converter will inject facial animation text keys, but that part is not much more than an interface that modifies the anim text field. There is no way to know how the expressions will look until you load it in game.

 

For that, I'd need a way to load all of the different morph targets from the tri file then calculate the interpolations between the selected facial expression mesh variants.

 

Doable? *shrug* maybe.

[Grumpf]

Stop using big words with me !!!

What do you need to start and how can we help testing here (and I mean some people not just us two!) ?

 

We can add some pre coded animations to a 1s .kf and test in in game. I can provide the testing environment...

I can also provide 1s examples with 3 to 4 facial animations and we can check how it blends...

 

You tell me guys.

 

Now, as for the weighting and skeletons issues, is that still the case? Can I help here???

 

Cheers!

[gerra6]

Well, there's this

 

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3470

 

Imports tri files. I could probably import that, parse the data, store all of the vertex morphs from each expression in a pickle dictionary, and then run a script that *tries* to morph the facial expressions between frames.

 

I'll look into it.

[gerra6]

Well, now, that's kind of interesting.

 

The imported tri-shapes file becomes 35 shape keys.

 

Might be able to do something with that.

[Symon]

Thirty five - interesting!

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php?title=Facial_expressions_in_animations has 43 'named' expressions. I'm assuming some named expressions might be duplicates?

[gerra6]

I'm poking around the script trying to see what it's doing.

 

It appears to be loading the file as if it were a long string and then it uses the python struct module to parse it into meaningful chunks.

 

The parsing key is this fun thing '<8s10I16x' which I believe functions similarly to a regular expression (but with different syntax, that I need to review).  It then takes the various chunks and categorizes them according to their sequential order in the given chunk of the file.

 

*edit* After a brief review, here's what I think that means.

 

<8

8-bit little endian (Essentially tells the parser which convention to use when decoding the binary string)

 

s10

string with value '10'

 

I16

integer with value 16

 

x

??? In Python this stands for  'No Value'.  Not really sure what that means.  In C it stands for a 'Pad Byte'.

 

So If I'm reading this correctly, it's looking for 1016, where 10 is a string and 16 is an integer and using that to parse the tri file.

 

Interesting.

 

At the moment, it appears to be discarding about half of the data for a given shape key, but I haven't yet looked to see if there is any useful data in those discarded chunks.

 

> 43 'named' expressions. I'm assuming some named expressions might be duplicates?

 

Maybe, but I suspect that the 8 missing expressions are managed by texture changes controlled by an egt file.  I *think* that things like the eye looking left or right is controlled by moving the texture around rather than actually rotating the eye mesh.

[gerra6]

I'll post a blend file in a bit which shows off the shape keys.  Then I'll see if I can get pose converter to apply those shape keys in a way that replicates Oblivion's facial expression engine.

 

P.S. Does anyone here know if Fallout and Skyrim use similar anim text keys for facial expressions, or if they do something different?

 

*Edit*

 

OK, I've attached a Blend file that has the following vanilla Oblivion meshes imported

 

headhuman.tri (with boneweights copied from headhuman.nif so that it can be used during animation testing)

headhuman.nif

headhuman.egm

 

Layer 1 includes the headhuman.tri mesh.  The shape keys can be accessed here, just click on the shape keys to view the appropriate morph target.

 

Oblivion facial animations work by interpolating between the 'basis' mesh and one or more morph targets.  The anim text field keys (accessible via nifskope or pose converter) control the relative weighting of the different morph targets and how long it takes an expression to change.

 

I'll look into giving Pose Converter the ability to add shape-key specific keyframes based on facial expressions so that animators can view facial expressions when they make or modify their animations.  No promises, but I *think* it should be fairly straightforward.

 

*Edit*

 

It looks like the importer craps out the moment it finds information that it can't parse.  On the Corean Head, this allows the import of 34 keys, on the vanilla head we only get 26

 

I'll poke around the import script to see if there are any clean fixes.

shapeKeys.7z

[gerra6]

OK, I found a *much* better tri import/export script over on Github.

 

This was brought to us by some very nice person named Himika

 

https://gist.github.com/himika

 

These are tri import/export scripts that appear to import all of the shapekeys.  Released with a GPL license, so I've attached them to this message.

 

I've also attached a blend file with the newly imported tri file.  This allows you to view, I believe, all of the available Oblivion expressions.

 

*Edit Replacement files uploaded*

 

I've imported eyes, tongue, mouth, teeth and head tri files into the blend file.

 

Identified and repaired a typo in the import script that stopped the script from importing eyes.  

 

 

scripts.7z

shapeKeys3.7z

[legit1337]

@grumpf

 

Would you mind posting those .kfs that are in those videos you linked?

 

It looks like a modified lovers anim.

[TDA]

 

@TDA

 

Can you provide the animation in that video? The one in the overhaul pack is slightly different, and am wondering where you got that one.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/j3b2wn1guxm0u1i/_new_01_forFP.7z

 

(yesterday, mediafire gave out  an error for that file, I had no time to understand this.)

 

Forgot to write, in the first minutes of the game may occur dissynchronization of movements. Guess it's because of the large count of keys and long timeline in animations , also CPU power. )

 

(This is engine problems and exporter (3ds max approximator) ,)

[D_ManXX2]

Gerra, thanks that sound interesting. able to have facials directly available in the animation will make it easier to animate at the same time.

 

Btw is it possible to make those shapekeys also added within the key frames when animating by pressing i locrot etc.. ?? Or does it still require a different method to lock shapekeys ??

[gerra6]

Gerra, thanks that sound interesting. able to have facials directly available in the animation will make it easier to animate at the same time.

 

Btw is it possible to make those shapekeys also added within the key frames when animating by pressing i locrot etc.. ?? Or does it still require a different method to lock shapekeys ??

I'm not really sure.

 

As soon as I get a few other coding tasks done, I'm planning on looking into what sort of API access Blender provides for integrating shapekey transforms into animations. The idea would be to use Pose Converter to parse/modify the anim text field and then apply the shapekey morphs to the head, tongue, eyes, mouth, teeth using the appropriate blending settings.

 

It should be possible to do this manually as well. I *think* that you can just choose a keyframe, configure the skapekeys and save the transform keyframe (I'm not sure how you save the keyframe with shapekeys but it's probably fairly straightforward). You'd need to do a bit of manual calculation to match Oblivion's morph settings when multiple facial expressions are applied or are transitioning from one expression to another.

[Grumpf]

@grumpf

 

Would you mind posting those .kfs that are in those videos you linked?

 

Sure: Which ones?

 

 

It looks like a modified lovers anim.

Unless it's one I've redone for us, nope. Don't be insulting

 

 

Forgot to write, in the first minutes of the game may occur dissynchronization of movements. Guess it's because of the large count of keys and long timeline in animations , also CPU power. )

(This is engine problems and exporter (3ds max approximator) ,)

 

 

Yeah, for me the facial expressions usually starts after one animation cycle. Dunno why...

 

Gerra: I'll try to understand everything you posted tomorrow, can't brain right now; I haz the dumb.

[gerra6]

OK.  I think I've figured out how to integrate facial expressions into Blender animations with Pose Converter.  This will allow you to directly view facial expressions (read from the anim text field) when you test your animations in Blender.  If all goes well, it should be reasonably close to Oblivion's rendering method.

 

 It looks like it will be fairly easy to integrate into the existing framework, so I expect to have something ready for testing this evening.

 

Any volunteers?