[WIP] Break Undies Framework

[Silk]

Really looking forward to this mod. If I can't get a full fleshed out sex mod then I will make dowith my toons armour falling off.

[ShadeAnimator]

As for the clothes itself, I don't think it is a good idea to make them so

"open" in the beginning. Whats the point of the mod then, just open boobs and ass? I think it will make more effect, if 1 stage covers almost all body, well, at least as much as the vanilla ones do. Not for all armors and clothing, of course, but a female city guard in iron armor, which covers only bra and bikini area looks way too odd even for a fantasy game erotic mod, dont you think?

[Perdev]

As for the clothes itself' date=' I don't think it is a good idea to make them so

"open" in the beginning.[/quote']

I do agree with this in some extent and this is the reason why I do not play with Mak's armors. They're beautiful but most of them are exaggerated. And combined with this mod, well, it kills the purpose, I would prefer the NPC to be covered with suggestive clothes (still sexier than vanilla through) that make me want to draw my weapon in the middle of Whiterun to tear all of their clothes apart.

 

Now I am not complaining, I still think it is an amazing creation and I know I will definitely play with it despite of my regrets. I am just saying it could be even better. My two cents.

[JosefGrey]

As for the clothes itself' date=' I don't think it is a good idea to make them so

"open" in the beginning.[/quote']

I do agree with this in some extent and this is the reason why I do not play with Mak's armors. They're beautiful but most of them are exaggerated. And combined with this mod, well, it kills the purpose, I would prefer the NPC to be covered with suggestive clothes (still sexier than vanilla through) that make me want to draw my weapon in the middle of Whiterun to tear all of their clothes apart.

 

Now I am not complaining, I still think it is an amazing creation and I know I will definitely play with it despite of my regrets. I am just saying it could be even better. My two cents.

 

Clearly you have no comprehension of what's going into this, and therefore I don't want your two cents.

 

 

 

Here's some random screens of the Dragonbone damage stages, as well as a video showing stage 5, where only half of the breastplate is broken (an example of custom rigging on the top and body and utilizing the body swapper to do it).

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9a097lmuq0trpn/TESV%202012-10-22%2019-26-55-52.avi

[Perdev]

Clearly you have no comprehension of what's going into this' date=' and therefore I don't want your two cents.[/quote']

If you mean by this that starting from a stage 1 armor that would cover more skin would not give a good result in game, or that it would be too long and painful (more steps for a good result?), or that you would have to design new base armors rather than using Mak's ones for stage 1 besides of all the rest, or that you're using Mak's armors because they are popular, then fair enough, I trust you completely on the matter. Besides I know few things when it comes to mesh and texture edition but it looks like an already daunting task.

 

If however you meant that I did not understand how the mod works and how the degradation progresses through stages, then, no, I did understand correctly. I only meant in my initial post that most of Mak's armors (that are used on stage1) cover too few flesh for my own taste. But I understand and respect that everyone has different tastes.

[abovewolf]

That is just groundbreaking! Everything you do puts something in place that SHOULD be there but never was before!

 

I have always thought rigging could be done more creatively on any set of armor, but a rigid armor set that breaks to the soft protected parts...you are going to have people walking around in broken armor a lot!

 

Thanks for the shots! You are making really great progress.[/align]

[ibanez85]

Dragonplate' date=' with skirt. Huahehehuahueahua

[/quote']

 

That's great xD

[ShadeAnimator]

Well, as I understand the main task of this thread is to make a framework for breakable armor, so that later anyone can make more models for it, right?

 

If so, then, sure, you can use any models for tests, why not. I just said that in case you are going to make "model pack" yourself, or plan on leading modelling part of the project.

 

My opinion is that a good mod will add onto the original, so in this case, I'd use vanilla style armor (it can be reworkes, sexualised, anything, but be close to it), and "break" it. Otherwise it will ruin the whole skyrim\tes universe feel, and convert it into another japanese hentai game...

 

As for different tastes, developers of the game actually knew that, and there is a very open and sexy forsworn armor. Bandits could wear less to. But, god, please, don't make heavy armor consisting only of a metal bra and skirt...

 

I'm pretty sure, that even with so little clothes it would be a big deal to make replacements for all skyrim models. Actually, I think, you should later find someone to make a 3dsmax\blender script for exporting all 5 stages at once.

 

About custom rigging, could you, please, point me in direction on how to make custom rigs? I know a lot about 3d graphics and animation, so on that side there are no question, just Skyrim engine related ones. I also know how to create and export animations, and worked on ASXXX and SSG mods. But not much about new rigs.

 

Thanks

[JosefGrey]

Well' date=' as I understand the main task of this thread is to make a framework for breakable armor, so that later anyone can make more models for it, right?

 

If so, then, sure, you can use any models for tests, why not. I just said that in case you are going to make "model pack" yourself, or plan on leading modelling part of the project.

 

My opinion is that a good mod will add onto the original, so in this case, I'd use vanilla style armor (it can be reworkes, sexualised, anything, but be close to it), and "break" it. Otherwise it will ruin the whole skyrim\tes universe feel, and convert it into another japanese hentai game...

 

As for different tastes, developers of the game actually knew that, and there is a very open and sexy forsworn armor. Bandits could wear less to. But, god, please, don't make heavy armor consisting only of a metal bra and skirt...

 

I'm pretty sure, that even with so little clothes it would be a big deal to make replacements for all skyrim models. Actually, I think, you should later find someone to make a 3dsmax\blender script for exporting all 5 stages at once.

 

About custom rigging, could you, please, point me in direction on how to make custom rigs? I know a lot about 3d graphics and animation, so on that side there are no question, just Skyrim engine related ones. I also know how to create and export animations, and worked on ASXXX and SSG mods. But not much about new rigs.

 

Thanks

[/quote']

 

Yep, eventually there will be tutorials for the DAF scripts and how to make BU armors for them. At this point they are exponentially more complicated than Oblivion's because of how many roadblocks there are (no default durability system, NPC AI is insane in Skyrim, armor slot masks make a body swapper and explicit race support necessary, measures for allowing smithing and enchanting to work had to be taken into account, etc).

 

Hm, there's a brief section in this tutorial for rigging armor: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Skyrim._Part_1#Add_weights_to_the_armour

 

A lot of it can be done via script, but for unorthodox things you have to usually manually do some weight painting. What it mainly boils down to is getting used to how weight envelopes on different bones interact with each other, and predicting if any (non-extreme) animations could "break" what you're trying to do.

 

It'd be nice if Skyrim just had physics on clothes... the fact that it doesn't makes it pretty antiquated at this point.

[stuffed_bunny]

May I ask how the (visual) breaking stages are implemented? A guess would be that you move some vertices for breaking it up, and use texture transparancy for "missing" pieces. Are you removing any vertices?

 

It would be nice if we could implement Bodyslide support from a single source mesh per outfit, and use sliders/zaps for the stages - one movement + one zap slider per shape per stage should be enough. In theory.

[ShadeAnimator]

Yep' date=' eventually there will be tutorials for the DAF scripts and how to make BU armors for them. At this point they are exponentially more complicated than Oblivion's because of how many roadblocks there are (no default durability system, NPC AI is insane in Skyrim, armor slot masks make a body swapper and explicit race support necessary, measures for allowing smithing and enchanting to work had to be taken into account, etc).

 

Hm, there's a brief section in this tutorial for rigging armor: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Skyrim._Part_1#Add_weights_to_the_armour

 

A lot of it can be done via script, but for unorthodox things you have to usually manually do some weight painting. What it mainly boils down to is getting used to how weight envelopes on different bones interact with each other, and predicting if any (non-extreme) animations could "break" what you're trying to do.

 

It'd be nice if Skyrim just had physics on clothes... the fact that it doesn't makes it pretty antiquated at this point.

[/quote']

 

 

Well, I think there is a misunderstanding detected ) I thought that you create your own rig, but, as I think now, you just used a nude mod with "physics"? I asked not how to skin a model to a ready skeleton (which I am experienced in, since i work with animations a lot, thats my job), but how to make my own bones for a skeleton. Thought you made your own boob-bone )

 

About physics on clothes, that was my first major dissapointment about skyrim. I have no idea, why they did not implement cloth simulation into their game, I see no reasons for that... PCs are fast enough to run cloth sim with everything we have in Skyrim now, and even add some ENB DX11 stuff on top. Well, they may had reasons to use havok, not physx, but havok has a cool and fast realtime cloth too, why not use it?

thats year 2010...

 

Even old max payne had a cloth sim. Whyyy, damn...

 

I hope someone will find out how to add cloth sim, or at least some kind of jiggle bones to skyrim. Thats so easy... Why... Bethesda is a huge company. Lazy asses, thats the only explanation.

[JosefGrey]

May I ask how the (visual) breaking stages are implemented? A guess would be that you move some vertices for breaking it up' date=' and use texture transparancy for "missing" pieces. Are you removing any vertices?

 

It would be nice if we could implement Bodyslide support from a single source mesh per outfit, and use sliders/zaps for the stages - one movement + one zap slider per shape per stage should be enough. In theory.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, in a lot of cases I'm removing vertices and then adding new geometry to fill holes. Heavy armor especially needs new geometry added when sections are removed since the pieces aren't flat. Each stage is its own nif file, so it's completely independent of the previous/later stages. I've been pretty liberal with the ways I've been editing each mesh because of this :X.

 

The script swaps these nif files out based on given conditions.

 

Yep' date=' eventually there will be tutorials for the DAF scripts and how to make BU armors for them. At this point they are exponentially more complicated than Oblivion's because of how many roadblocks there are (no default durability system, NPC AI is insane in Skyrim, armor slot masks make a body swapper and explicit race support necessary, measures for allowing smithing and enchanting to work had to be taken into account, etc).

 

Hm, there's a brief section in this tutorial for rigging armor: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Skyrim._Part_1#Add_weights_to_the_armour

 

A lot of it can be done via script, but for unorthodox things you have to usually manually do some weight painting. What it mainly boils down to is getting used to how weight envelopes on different bones interact with each other, and predicting if any (non-extreme) animations could "break" what you're trying to do.

 

It'd be nice if Skyrim just had physics on clothes... the fact that it doesn't makes it pretty antiquated at this point.

[/quote']

 

 

Well, I think there is a misunderstanding detected ) I thought that you create your own rig, but, as I think now, you just used a nude mod with "physics"? I asked not how to skin a model to a ready skeleton (which I am experienced in, since i work with animations a lot, thats my job), but how to make my own bones for a skeleton. Thought you made your own boob-bone )

 

About physics on clothes, that was my first major dissapointment about skyrim. I have no idea, why they did not implement cloth simulation into their game, I see no reasons for that... PCs are fast enough to run cloth sim with everything we have in Skyrim now, and even add some ENB DX11 stuff on top. Well, they may had reasons to use havok, not physx, but havok has a cool and fast realtime cloth too, why not use it?

thats year 2010...

 

Even old max payne had a cloth sim. Whyyy, damn...

 

I hope someone will find out how to add cloth sim, or at least some kind of jiggle bones to skyrim. Thats so easy... Why... Bethesda is a huge company. Lazy asses, thats the only explanation.

 

Oh, all I did was use the existing BBP enabled skeleton and re-weighted the objects. The BU framework can't swap the skeleton on the fly since that is a function of the actor's race. Sorry for the confusion.

[JosefGrey]

Made a new skirt texture for the Wolf set.

 

Here's a pic of stage 4 of the wolf BU armor. I'm trying to find ways to make things "different" for each set without increasing development time much. In this stage, only the broken part of the breastplate will be BBP enabled (until more breaks).

 

Also, I plan on changing the diffuse/normal textures up as this one progresses... going to add shiny areas around breaking points and dents to make it look as though the top layer of metal has worn away from weapon impacts.

 

EDIT: Got a lot done tonight. All I have left on the Wolf set is putting together most of the nif files and making the damaged textures for the armor.

 

EDIT 2: Pic of the Wolf Armor with the skirt.

[Jimjim117]

You asked a while back for suggestions on what you could do with the armors so they all don't have the same skirt mesh. I was thinking it would be nice to have a pleated skirt mesh just to change it up a bit on a few of the armors. I know a few meshes like this exist around the place but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

Just an idea if you're still looking. Keep up the amazing work.

[ShadeAnimator]

One question...

 

Why don't you focus on creating the tech of the framework and scripts for now, to make it all work better and faster, give it with a documentation to other modders, and together make the model pack? I think this will be much faster in the end.

[JosefGrey]

You asked a while back for suggestions on what you could do with the armors so they all don't have the same skirt mesh. I was thinking it would be nice to have a pleated skirt mesh just to change it up a bit on a few of the armors. I know a few meshes like this exist around the place but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

Just an idea if you're still looking. Keep up the amazing work.

 

Not too sure I could make a pleated skirt look very lore-ish, hehe (even though I'm stretching it with these haha). I'm thinking of doing a drape (front and back) kinda thing for at least Elven, Glass and Forsworn. Probably something similar for Dwarven and Daedric as well. The shorts mesh will be used about equally with the skirt one I think.

[JosefGrey]

One question...

 

Why don't you focus on creating the tech of the framework and scripts for now' date=' to make it all work better and faster, give it with a documentation to other modders, and together make the model pack? I think this will be much faster in the end.

[/quote']

 

Currently I code all day at work and can only take hours of debugging in small doses, hehe.

[Faricho]

are you currently planning to model all of the vanilla armors?

[JosefGrey]

are you currently planning to model all of the vanilla armors?

 

I'm making an expansion to my MAK07's Remodeled Armor Non Nude mod (http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/16781 ) that will encompass all of MAK07's sets and will be entirely BU compatible. So, pretty much.

[ShadeAnimator]

Looked through the screenshots of MAK07... The only thing I wanna add - try using normal maps for wrinkles, dont kill users' PCs. Skyrim becomes laggy on hiend PCs even with vanilla armors with ENB effects, so throwing a lot of additional polygons on that is kinds rude for the pc )

 

Making normal maps is easy ) Don't know about blender, but max has some builtin tools for that.

[RainbowFlutter]

Just wanted to point out I love the fact you're adding miniskirts to some of these armors, can't seem to find enough mods that take advantage of that.

 

Are you keeping the underwear on even with the miniskirt? Seems like you're erring towards non-nude in your Nexus mod (even says so in the title), but I just love the look of "a little peak" even at full armor health.

[JosefGrey]

Just wanted to point out I love the fact you're adding miniskirts to some of these armors' date=' can't seem to find enough mods that take advantage of that.

 

Are you keeping the underwear on even with the miniskirt? Seems like you're erring towards non-nude in your Nexus mod (even says so in the title), but I just love the look of "a little peak" even at full armor health.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, I'm planning on having a non adult release of the armor that isn't BU-compatible.

[shoru813]

When i equip imperial armor, pc become naked.

what am i doing wrong?

[RainbowFlutter]

Just wanted to point out I love the fact you're adding miniskirts to some of these armors' date=' can't seem to find enough mods that take advantage of that.

 

Are you keeping the underwear on even with the miniskirt? Seems like you're erring towards non-nude in your Nexus mod (even says so in the title), but I just love the look of "a little peak" even at full armor health.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, I'm planning on having a non adult release of the armor that isn't BU-compatible.

Cool, I was actually going in the other direction of having no panties even at full health armor. However, I'm not asking you to go through all the work of having a completely different version with that, since removing that piece can be easily done in NifSkope for anybody who wanted to go through the extra work. All I'd request is if you can keep the underwear as a different "block" in the meshes so that it'd be easy to remove in NifSkope.

[die4dark]

loin cloth could also be a good option beside skirtss and it is lore friendly , good job even in alpha stage this mod is just awesome